Swaminarayana Hindu

[Guest guest]

Read this carfully for I will explain it all.

 

To understand BAPS you must first understand the basics of hinduism in genral which was first refered to as sanatan dharma, meaning eternal truth or the right way. Underneath hinduism falls every religion ranging from judaism to atheism(belief that there is no god). Any religion that has good morals and makes people better and not worse is a subset of hindusim. Even the vedas have a chapter which was written by a rushimuni who did not believe in god.

 

Underneath all of this is vaishnavism. What differs vaishnavism from the rest of the subsets is the belief in the five eternal entities namely; Jiv, Ishwaar, Maya, Brahm(do not mix this brahma, the creator of the universe), parabrhama. Underneath vaishnavism fall ram, krishna, all avtars of vishnu, and swaminarayan. The reason swaminarayan falls underneath this sub-subset is becuase we too belive in the five entities. but we will dwelve into that later.for now i will go onto the five entities...

 

The five entites are..

Jiv-which is our souls

 

ishwar- a jiv wich has done some great karma and has been give a resposibility of taking care of his particular seva(job). Krishna, Ram, Brahma, vishnu, mahesh, agni, vayu, indra...all of these entities fall underneath this category becuase they are still affected by the next entity. ~(as i sidenote, every refernce of ram, krishna,etc... in any hindu scripture is as ishwar and not parabrahm). Therefore if a jiv can be elevated into the status of ishwar, this means that in your past lives you could have been krishna, or ram, or shiv. the catch is that from this state you cannot go above maya, it is only possible to go above maya and liberate yourself as a jiv.

 

Maya- jiv and ishwar are the only entites that are affected by it.

An intresting anecdote pertaining to this matter is that when Arjun wanted to go se parabrahm (becuase krishna is not parabrhma, he is ishwar) he asked krishna for a way to go through maya to meet him. In return krishna gave him the sudarshan chakra which has the brightness of 10,000 suns. Arjun said this is more than i need to get through maya, i could have sufficed with a mere lamp. Krishna said that you will need it, and arjun did. The moment he entered maya the sudarshan chakras light went down to a flicker.

As i was saying, jiv and ishwar are the only entites affected by maya. maya can be thought of as the matrix, its everything around you, anything that you are attached to, any temporary pleasures, anything that will not go with you when you die, basically almost everything. All emotions are part of maya; greed, anger, lust, ego, the senses, everything.

 

Brahm-this is not the creator of the universe but infact the entity in which all universes reside in. i am not refering to the brahma that is part of the trinity with vishnu and shiv. this entity is the one in which everything resides, this entity is the abode of god, heaven.

 

Parabrahm-This is god, the supreme being, swaminarayan.

 

Now what are we. we are the souls. we are not, and i repeat, we are not the mind or the body. these will both perish when we die. it is even built into our very language i.e. by leg hurts, i HAVE an headache. Notice that we posses the headache, therefore we are not the head(mind). also notice that you posses the leg, you are not the leg(body). a very confusing concept to grasp.

 

i will now continue...

 

we believe that swaminarayan is parabrahm. the reason that he says in all of his scriptures to worship krishna is becuase that is whom everybody worshipped at that time. If Swaminarayan came along and said that he was god, well he could not say that he was god because he does not posses any ego. he is above maya. he has no anger, lust, greed, attachment. he does not care for the materialistic world. As for his legitimacy, swaminarayan has just as many miracles as krishna does. the only difference is that he changed peoples lives for there better while krishna was there to resolve the issue of kansa and the pandav vs. kurav war. i am not saying that worshipping krishna is bad, it is better then what most people do, but you must realize that with krishna you will still be below maya and therefore not permenantly liberated. you will still be in the cycle of birth and death, you will still be in maya.

 

Pramukh Swami is brahma. there are many saying, one of which i will list below

 

guru govind dono khade kisko lago upay

baliyaari gurudev ki jine govinda batay

 

~both god and guru stand next to each other, to whom do i bow down to

i bown down to the guru for without him, how would i know who god was

 

at this time, tulsidas was refering to god as being krishna, but the essence still remains. You need someone to guide you, someone to explain the scriptures and guide on the right path. we are now smart enough to decipher the scriptures and find out for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. And what better guru then the one in which god himself resides in. Pramukh Swami. He is not god, but through him god works.

 

I know this may be confusing but it is late at night. if you have any quetions regarding this post email me at ampster.hack@gmail.com. you may reply to this post but i doubt if i will reply back. i am not done, i still have alot to explain and i might have a pt.2 later.

 

till then

 

Jai Shree Krishna

Jai Swaminarayan

 

Peace

[Guest guest]

I come from an extended family that is mixed Swaminarayan Gadi and BAPS. Have cousins who are santos on both sides. Many family members that are very involved on both sides. I attened BAPS mandir until I was 14, but could not find the clear answers to questions I had. Despite the differences all the adults in my family have taught us to look at the good in both sects, Bhagwan will deal with the rest.

 

I follow Swaminarayan Gadi. If Bhagwan wanted a sadhu (group of sadhus) to be at the top running things He would have set it up that way before He left... why wouldnt He? This is just what I think, logically. I follow His teachings, and let Him deal with the ones going against His way (I don't know who those people are, who am I to judge someone and their beliefs?) Could be Acharaya, santos, gurus, satsangis.

 

Our family gets along perfectly, because we all follow the TEACHINGS of Lord Swaminarayan. He say don't look at the bad (avgoon, im not good with the translations) in others. So don't look at the bad in others. I'm very disappointed in the posting of the article and the negativity. If you looked a little harder you could find the same amount of horrible news in any sect of Swaminarayan.

 

The one major underlying teaching is to change your character so that you become humble and das-na-das in satsang (both sects teach this to a great extent) and it will help you achieve your ultimate goal of Akshardham. The starting is by looking at the good qualities in other people, things, situations, etc.

 

Remember everywhere there is good, bad is always lurking around; and bad always will get the attention and media coverage. Try to look at the good in everything, because everthing is His creation.

 

A lot of the postings refering to the Shikshapati and Lord Krishna: some of the verses can not be taken literally straight out of the Shikshapati without reading other books with further detailed explanations. The Shikshapati is a guideline to daily living and overall views. You have to read other books by Nand santos to understand more about the Krishna Swaminarayan topic.

 

Take this as you please.

Jay Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

I just read a part of someone’s posting... and would like to share this.

 

I know of a couple of very well educated santos (shastri) who have challenged Pramukh Swami in a debate over the authenticity of BAPS. Pramukh Swami has never replied to their request to sit down and have a debate. If you have anything childish to say about this situation, just know debates have been done between shastris since the origin of Hinduism.

 

The santos who asked for the debate are from Bhuj, and any Swaminarayan from any sect knows the dedication and strict livings of the sadhus in this area of Gujarat. They do not travel; instead they remain in Bhuj for years educating themselves about Bhagwan and Hinduism.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

[aGnani11]

"Pramukh Swami has never replied to their request to sit down and have a debate."

 

If Pramukh Swami has declined to participate in academic debates, there is actually a reason for this. It is written in his official biography that when Swami Yagnapurushdasji (Pramukh Swami's guru) left Vadtal to establish the current BAPS sampradaya in 1907 CE, the monks of the Vadtal order and several 'devotees' of the Vadtal gadi gave death threats and other harmful threats. Yagnapurushdas himself barely escaped with his life on several occasions. Yagnapurushdas himself was a learned scholar and so he wished to participate in debates to defend the Akshar-Purushottam philosophy, however, none of the sadhus or devotees of the Vadtal gadi wished to comply. Their reason for not accepting the debate challenge was because Yagnapurushdas was excommunicated by the Acharya for preaching blasphemy. Pramukh Swami thus today does not agree to sit down for official debates, because the debate has been raging for decades now.

 

Also, I acknowledge the sadhus who reside in the Swaminarayan mandir in Bhuj are very scholarly and adhere to strict detachment. They are a great order of monks. The BAPS Swaminarayan mandir in Sarangpur is full of such as well. Sadhus with deep Vedic knowledge and advanced spiritual states. The guru, in the end, is the key. He is the one who shows you the way towards spirituality.

 

Tasmaya sri gurave namaha.

[Guest guest]

I'm surprised that swaminrayan philosophy introduced the idea of parabrahman being above Brahman. In other schools of Hindu philiosophy, I'm not sure this word Parabrhaman exists. In Ramanuja's Visistadvaita, (where swaminarayan sect claims succession) I don't think he used the word Parabrahman, but rather Brahman includes everything. In Ramanuja's philiosophy Brahman is the highest and mainfest as Visnu. I don't even think the Upanishads use the word Parabrahman.

 

Why do swaminarayans feel the need to distinguish between Brahman and Parabrahman?

[aGnani11]

"Why do swaminarayans feel the need to distinguish between Brahman and Parabrahman?"

This is a good question. The term 'Parabrahma' has it's roots in the Bhagavad Gita. Sri Krishna makes a distinction between Brahma and Parabrahma, because Brahma is actually the spiritual state every jiv/atman attains once he attains moksha. The exact sloka is as follows:

Ishā Brāhmistiti pārtha ha;

nainām prāpya vimukhya ti.

Stitvāsyā mantakālepi;

Brahma nirvāna mruchya ti.

This means that it is the state of Brahma that one must aim to achieve; however, Parabrahma is the ultimate reality towards which one must offer one's own pure bhakti. Brahma (not Brahmā of the Trinity) is purely a spiritual state one attains at the time of ātyāntika moksha. The Visistadvaita system does not accept the idea of the jiv/atman merging with God and becoming one as endorsed by the Advaits. Thus there is a clear distinction between Brahma and Parabrahma.

This is why the Swaminarayana philosophy is based on the system of a hierarchy of five eternal entities:

1. Jiva

2. Ishwar

3. Māyā

4. Brahma

5. Parabrahma

Brahma is both the eternal abode of Parabrahma (and Parabrahma can be known by various names like Narayana, Krishna, Purushottam, Govinda, Swaminarayana, Hari, etc.) and the infinite jivas who have attained the Brahmic state. This idea actually comes from the Yoga Sutras in which Patanjali's yogic system carries the ultimate goal of the realization of the ātman and the pervasive Parabrahma that eternally resides within. Thus, we are all innately the abode of Parabrahma.

This is how our guruji Pramukh Swami teaches us. I hope this clarifies some ideas. I an open to any corrections/questions/suggestions.

Jay Sri Narayana,

Jay Sri Swaminarayana.

[Guest guest]

 

Some wise seer be it Budhdha ,Mahavir,Sahjananda,Rajneesh the list is endless;

Dear Ajit,

 

Rajnessh is a FAKE guru. He is NOT enlightened, he is a FRAUD. get this through your head. the truth has been out for a long time. HE IS A FAKE. HE IS A FALSE GURU. HE HAS NO REALIZATION WHAT SO EVER. he has mislead many thousands of people when he was alive and he misleads today even though he is DEAD!

 

Osho is a FAKE!

[Guest guest]

 

"This idea actually comes from the Yoga Sutras in which Patanjali's yogic system carries the ultimate goal of the realization of the ātman and the pervasive Parabrahma that eternally resides within. Thus, we are all innately the abode of Parabrahma.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I think Patanjali's yoga-sutras talk about Ishwar (i.e. Saguna Brahman) I didn't know of anywhere Parabrahman is discussed. Can you provide the verse?

I wonder why other Hindu schools didn't elaborate on Parabrahman? The Upanishads don't seem to mention it at all. I take it this was a later concept, maybe that's the reason the other schools didn't take it seriously as they were based on an acharya's interpretataion of the Upanishads.

If this Parabrahman is mentioned in the Gita, it'll be interesting to see how Adi Shankaracharya explained it.

[Guest guest]

the story that Yagnapurushdas was receiving death threats is made up bull faeces complete utter rubbish with not an ounce of truth yet the story is preached in each and every baps temple.

 

Pramukh Swami is not the Guru. He is not Brahm(Akshar). Just because you say so doesn't make himt he 'choicest' devotees. He is not a patch on those monks still in the Orginal Swaminarayan faith who desire no wealth, women, POWER OR PRESTIGE (which Pramukh Swami revels in).

 

Don't ruin Swaminarayan Samparaday's image by reciting such absurdities. There's no such thing as pragat brahm and Swaminarayan never left a monk as successor to him.

[aGnani11]

 

the story that Yagnapurushdas was receiving death threats is made up bull faeces complete utter rubbish with not an ounce of truth yet the story is preached in each and every baps temple.

Pramukh Swami is not the Guru. He is not Brahm(Akshar). Just because you say so doesn't make himt he 'choicest' devotees. He is not a patch on those monks still in the Orginal Swaminarayan faith who desire no wealth, women, POWER OR PRESTIGE (which Pramukh Swami revels in).

Don't ruin Swaminarayan Samparaday's image by reciting such absurdities. There's no such thing as pragat brahm and Swaminarayan never left a monk as successor to him.

Tell that to the current sadhus who were in the company of Yagnapurush. Why would they make up lies? BAPS has nothing to gain by telling lies.

If you are an honest bhakta of Swaminarayan Bhagwan, you wouldn't resort to insulting anyone. Pramukh Swami is a pure sadhu. If you do not believe in him, that is totally acceptable, but please do not resort to insulting. By insulting, you are transgressing everything that Swami Sahajananda or even Sri Krishna ever taught.

BAPS is doing nothing evil, bad or corrupt. Instead, it is helping thousands of poor and homeless, getting other thousands to give up addictions such as smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. Look at how so many people are being inspired to follow the tenets of Bhagavat Dharma by seeing the Akshardham Temple in New Delhi or the Shikkhar temples in Chicago and Houston, USA.

I have absolute respect for the Vadtal and Amdavad gadis of Sri Swaminarayana, but I personally have accepted Pramukh Swami as my guru. Isn't that what the entire Hindu system is based on? Guru-shisya relationship? Your guru would not endorse you insulting other gurus.

Final point: have faith in your ishtadev, have faith in your Guru, but please do not insult other faiths/gurus.

Thank you.

JAY SRI NARAYANA,

JAY SRI SWAMINARAYANA.

[Guest guest]

 

the story that Yagnapurushdas was receiving death threats is made up bull faeces complete utter rubbish with not an ounce of truth yet the story is preached in each and every baps temple.

 

Pramukh Swami is not the Guru. He is not Brahm(Akshar). Just because you say so doesn't make himt he 'choicest' devotees. He is not a patch on those monks still in the Orginal Swaminarayan faith who desire no wealth, women, POWER OR PRESTIGE (which Pramukh Swami revels in).

 

Don't ruin Swaminarayan Samparaday's image by reciting such absurdities. There's no such thing as pragat brahm and Swaminarayan never left a monk as successor to him.

These are such unsubstantiated claims about Pramukh Swamiji. He doesn't "revel in wealth, women, power, or prestige." Despite the tremendous progress of the BAPS organization worldwide, Pramukh Swamiji has not a single penny in his name, and he has not seen a woman in over 65 plus years of being a sadhu! Yes, fame, prestige, and power do follow him, but that is not something that he "revels" in! He travels in nice cars, visits nice homes, gets nice meals, etc., but those aren't things that he "asks for." They are offered to him, willingly, by devotees, as a sign of their bhakti to him. In fact, Pramukh Swamiji has even ridden in rikshas, or on bullock carts as recently as a few years ago. Now, his old age and poor health do not permit these things as much. I don't understand how someone throw such evil accusations at him by assuming that he "revels in wealth, women, power, and prestige."

 

Pramukh Swamiji has travelled in villages in the dry heat of India, inspired 25 pinnacled mandirs (3 in the west), and inaugurated 650 other mandirs worldwide. He has initiated 735 of the most highly educated sadhus in the world, he has made 19 foreign tours, sat down with world leaders such as Kofi Annan, Tony Blair, and Bill Clinton, and even made a speach at the United Nations General Assembly in front of 1800 world religious leaders. He has done more to put Hinduism on the map than any one will for a long, long time. This is fact, not mere opinion. Despite this, he has not broken his vows of shunning women and wealth. In the face of such fame, Pramukh Swamiji remains uninfluenced. People insult him all the time, just like Shastri Yagnapurushdas, but Pramukh Swamiji has no care for them, and goes about his work of spreading the Vaishnav tradition and the name of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. Name me any sadhu in the world with such strict adherence to the vows given by Bhagwan Swaminarayan.

 

About the concept of pragat brahm, I refer you to the Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Vachanamrut:

 

Gadhada Section I-27:

"The powers of such a person (an ekantik sadhu) are such that since it is God who sees trhough his eyes, he empowers the eyes of all beings in the brahmand...it is God who resides in all of the indriyas of such a Sant. Therefore, such a sant is the sustainer of the world. His greatness lies in the fact that he tolerates the insults delivered even by insignificant people."

 

Moreover, there are verses upon verson of kirtans composed by Bhagwan Swaminarayan's paramhansas (non-BAPS, therefore, unbiased) that praise the glory of such a sant:

 

1. Jagat Maahi Sant Paramhitkari

2. Dhanya Dhanya E Sant Sujaan Ne

3. Naarad Mere Santse Adhik Na Koi

4. Balihaari Mai, Aise Santki

5. Sadhu Soi Naav Sansaar Mein

6. Evaa Sant Hari Ne Pyaaraa Re

7. Bhaagya Bade Jahaa Sant Padhaare

 

and of course, hundreds more.

 

About Shastri Yagnapurushdas, there are pages upon pages of court documents, witness testimony, and more, regarding the persecution he faced whilst he remained under the Vadtal mandir. How could these be mere lies? If they were, don't you think the truth would surface by now? Moreover, the details are so vivid...from his poisoning, to attempts to throw him into a fire, to stabbings whilst in the premesis of Vadtal mandir! Witnesses attest to seeing blood dropping while Yagnapurushdas was doing darshan in the main shrine. Despite this, Shastri Yagnapurushdas uttered not a single word, living up to Bhagwan Swaminarayan's ideal that a true sadhu should always "bear insults hurled upon him, and wish for the betterment of his persecutor." (Shikshapatri, Verse 201). Someone can't merely "make up" stories about these cruel assassination attempts. He was fortunate to have survived, and name of Bhagwan Swaminarayan has been uplifed to unbelievable heights today by his successors Yogiji Maharaj and Pramukh Swamiji.

 

Also, our Hindu dharma says not to talk ill of other religions, gurus, sects, etc. Even Bhagwan Swaminarayan's Shikshapatri says not to do so. Please keep these conversations intellectual, and refrain from the "mud-slinging" and trashing of others like you have done in your earlier posts.

[Guest guest]

does swaminarayan preform missionary work? Is it a proselytizing religion?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

This thread will be closed shortly. Both sides can make your last points before the thread is closed.

[Guest guest]

why is this thread being closed?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Because it will become an argument of unsubstantiated accusations that such an such swami is a fraud, then the other side will say, "No, your swami is a fraud." There is nothing beneficial in such a discussion.

[aGnani11]

 

Because it will become an argument of unsubstantiated accusations that such an such swami is a fraud, then the other side will say, "No, your swami is a fraud." There is nothing beneficial in such a discussion.

This is exactly the problem. I started this thread because I really wanted to get the opinions of the Hare Krishna disciples of Swami Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada on what they think of Swaminarayan Hinduism and of Pramukh Swami.

Instead, I am being forced to defend my guru against unsubstantiated accusations. I only wanted to discuss the vast amounts of similarities between ISKCON and the Swaminarayan Sampradaya.

I think board should definitely require people to register before they can post. This will reduce the number of unnecessary and ridiculous threads. That way the moderators can directly address specific people instead of closing entire threads.

Shānti!

Jay Sri Swaminarayana,

Jay Sri Narayana.

[Guest guest]

Why does BAPS not follow the Sikshapatri where Lord Swaminarayan states that in Shlok 62 where Only idols invoked by Dharmvanshi Acharyas are yogya of seva and not others. So how does BAPS think they are doing SEVA? They are Vimukh. As they do not such thing.

[Guest guest]

True and also the original reason as to why BAPS was created was because of how Yagnapurushdas Swami went around saying Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar incarnate whereas truth is that Gopalanand Swami Is Akshar.

 

Why did Yagnapurush Swmai have to do all this when Shriji Mahraj did His own establishment of everything? If he wanted to create an Akshar Purshottam Sanstha He would have done so, but on his departation to Akshardham he confirmed that what he had come down to earth for was now complete. Also handed both hands of the acharyas to Gopalanand Swmai.