Ill treatment by Brahmins

[Guest guest]

Does anyone have real historical evidences on brahmins illtreating the other castes during the pre-independence era? before the very 1st invasion?

 

[Guest guest]

can you define illtreatment. I can show you non brahmin illtreatment even today in tamil nadu

[Sephiroth]

Everyone saying Brahmins are ill-treating them, but I lived for over 30 years and don't remember a single such event. Of course, there are some cases where parents object to their son's or daughter's love of others - never happened to be directly.

 

In Malaysia, we do have Brahmin priests who brought to Malaysia and continue to live in Malaysia, but I never seen them mistreat anyone.

 

Yes, you may say that in Malaysia, it is hard to differentiate between caste. However, Chinese also do attend temples (many Hindus married to Chinese here and their Chinese Spouse become a Hindu also).

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

 

Although I have heard this many times and still keep hearing about it I havent really seen or even known of any real illtreatments of non-brahmins to be specific. In fact I have'nt even really seen Brahmins causing a big disturbance in society except that the majority of them dont lead much of a Brahminical life now-a-days and this is used as an excuse by so-called lower castes to genaralize the situation.... more of following a British tactic to destroy our culture rather than some internal problem...Instead I have seen the upper class Sudras (remember they have their own classes within) causing problems to the lower class Sudras and this is being termed as upper class illtreatment and by default this points towards Brahmins. I do know some Brahmins indulge in politics, regular money-making business though which ofcourse needs to change for the better if we have get our orignal varna system back.

 

What I have seen is however

 

(1) Orthodox Brahmins preventing others from entering the main sanctum of temples unless they have undergone the required ritualistic ceremonies. Now, what is wrong in this? If everyone can do everything then you sure need to make some rules to control abuse or use the rules already stated in the vedas.

(2) Orthodox Brahmins not eating food prepared by other castes. What is wrong in this? The specific mantras and the mindset when cooking food maintains sanctity of the food and this is essential for leading a Brahminical life.. although most Brahmins dont follow this. yet ofcourse Brahmins eat in restaurants, how wierd this is!

 

I will be looking forward to know too from others in the forum if they have some real information.

[Guest guest]

I would like to write about this incident, i dont know whether to call it an ill treatment but certainly it was not in the good taste.

 

This was before water connection was given to our houses in chennai suburb, we have to use the public water tap in the road. The water generally comes around 10 am in the morning , so people queue up in time to get their share. There was this iyengar mami who would come up late say 9;50 am or something while the queue is longer and would demand to get the water first from the public tap , her explanation for doing so is if other's touch the tap and get water before her , her "MADI" will be spoiled i thought this was an height or arrogance. In lieu of her age we let her go without starting a problem.

 

I would let readers comment on this.

[kandukondein]

I think this kind of discrimination by Brahmins over Non Brahmins is concocted story. I think this story happened only after 1850's or so because there are some evidences of discrimination around > 1890's. I think these stories should have been concocted by Brits and their then Loyal indian servants. Because most of the affluent people were in the high positions in the Brit govt. those people tend to look down on common people and thereby enriching the discrimination more and more. This was fanned by cste active elements during that time.

I somehow think this cud be the real reason.

[Sephiroth]

I think this is individual cases, not something the whole Brahmin could do.

 

There was one case of a Brahmin (Iyer) boy in my school (it's a mixed school with boys and girls). Anyway, we studied together for a year now and in midst of preparing for final examination at the end of the year.

 

This boy was sitting a few tables away and there was this another boy next to him. Something happened and both argued in class. I was in front of them but I never bothered (busy writing something).

 

Anyway, the Iyer boy scold the other one with something like "I'm not as low caste as you" and I got angry - not because of caste of anything but because they were arguing and disturbing me. So I told them - "Shut up, Sit down OR I will throw the two of them out to the street through the window" (We were on the 2nd floor so it will be a painful journey down). Both of them sat down quietly and thing ended with that.

 

End of the year, we had inter-school football competitions and I was handling the Medical Duty (someone is assigned to help teachers with Medicine, drinks and such) on the outside of the field.

 

Anyway, the same Iyer boy finish playing football and he and others were coming back. The boy took off his sweatly T-shirt and that's when I saw his thread across the body. That's when I know he was a Brahmin boy.

 

Many Brahmins in Malaysia live a simple life and taken up various duties and such. So I don't think Brahmins are such a bad fellows ... well, in Malaysia anyway.

[Guest guest]

I think most of all know that Bramhin is a practise with set of samskaras following some dogmos.

 

We all know that Sanskrit has Seven Thousand years of history with proofs.

In the early years of sanskrit; few practised Barmhanyam by putting threads around their shoulder and few are not. This doesnot make different from others as we all know, all came from the same old species (Monkey species).

 

As in these doctrines, the rules specify to become Yogi are u should not eat meat, should not go for non-voilence etc. Others contradict or decline these rules they got seperated from educated (bramhins) at that times. Bramhins of those times may be perfect and they treat all well. If you take Khatriyas(non-bramhins) eat meat to participate well in Wars that becomes dharma here sometimes.

 

As generations go learned became bramhins and others out of this Sanskrit dogmos. Early years bramhins may be perfect and they might be treating well with all. But still as generations go, bramhins started just believing them as rules than considering as concepts. And this resulted half-knowledged persons to condemn people who are non-bramhins from society. And slowly percentage of them raised.

 

This wrong treatment was followed many generations which came out nearly around 18th century.

 

MADI as specified in the post, in those days cleanliness was difficult. So they say MADI and collect water for cooking. This was misinterpreted in the later years.

 

I hope, WHAT HAPPENED IS QUIET NATURAL AND IS A HUMAN TENDENCY.

Generations and history of 7K it do happen. Interesting thing is Hinduism is only one religion retained for so many years. All other religions of those is no heard or followed now.

 

One thing is, Bramhins have to realize the truth and find god in all.

 

Its not the bramhins only have to change, soceity have to change.

In India if you see, religion has become political business now-a-days.

Where every Indian fall into that trap and get into sequels. Very bad.

 

Thanks for the time,

Mayur

[narayanadasa]

Jai Sriman Narayana:

In some news papers or articles whenever there is some news about a dalit being illtreated by upper castes, the people will generally tend to assume upper castes = brahmins while this is not the case. There are various classes among the so-called lower classes and this is what is not properly understood. This type of caste system is what is getting undue popularity/condemnation from everyone. I am not sure if Brahmins are really to be blamed for everything related to so-called upper caste problems.

 

So, yes, I agree, the entire society has to understand and change. I am still thinking this change has to somehow start from Brahmins. Simple things like renouncing TV, outside food, cheap entertainment etc can start from Brahmins. They need to spend time in learning / teaching etc and yet show happiness. This will arouse curiosity among others who will automatically come over and try to ask questions and pave the way for further learning for all including Brahmins.

[Sephiroth]

 

Jai Sriman Narayana:

In some news papers or articles whenever there is some news about a dalit being illtreated by upper castes, the people will generally tend to assume upper castes = brahmins while this is not the case. There are various classes among the so-called lower classes and this is what is not properly understood. This type of caste system is what is getting undue popularity/condemnation from everyone. I am not sure if Brahmins are really to be blamed for everything related to so-called upper caste problems.

So, yes, I agree, the entire society has to understand and change. I am still thinking this change has to somehow start from Brahmins. Simple things like renouncing TV, outside food, cheap entertainment etc can start from Brahmins. They need to spend time in learning / teaching etc and yet show happiness. This will arouse curiosity among others who will automatically come over and try to ask questions and pave the way for further learning for all including Brahmins.

Upper Caste are NOT Brahmins by whatever standards.

Brahmins are those who perform duties in temples and toward Gods and dieties. What does the Upper Caste does? The same? I doubt that.

Also, in Vedas, it stated there is 4 Varna according to the 4 Duties and even the Gita stated the same thing. So where does the other Upper Caste came from?

And why must Brahmins start first? Do you think anyone will bother to follow if they start?

If they renounce entertainment, outside food ( ) and TV and so on, will any else follow? Nope, you will simply say, "those are Brahmins and they can do it; we are sudras, we are too weak to change" and continue to live like pigs.

If you want to change the society, EVERYONE must change NOW and from THIS moment. Small change in household first, then gather together with other society members and change the society. Sooner or later, the whole community will change.

[Guest guest]

Today we believe caste system was one section exploiting a weaker section. Men behaving as male chauvinist exploited women. All this is not nonsence. But it doesn't make sense to think about the past generation as this. It's not fair.

 

Today we have free press, internet, radio, TV, so many mediums. Sitting in a lazy couch we could form a million perceptions of different things around the world, past, present, future etc. And continuing to sit in a lazy couch we could go on changing the perceptions moment to moment like changing channels in TV.

 

This feature is more today than the time before the first invasion. The perceptions in people of those days might be only a fraction of a city dweller in the world.

 

So today the way we act is different from the way those people of the past acted. We may be acting with a higher level of perception than those guys of the past. So we may be fair to women, other sects and all that keeping media/general perceptions in mind. So this is no big deal for a person to do today, and to be considered good.

 

Penalizing brahmins of today with the perceptions of the past, is stupid. Tamil Nadu people cannot step down from their perceptions of the past and come to reality. There is still a lot of side lining of brahmins which goes on there.

 

And the iyengars of tamil nadu, who consider themselves as brahmins, have spoilt the name of brahmins. Iyengars are simply religious, ritualistic and pious looking opportunitic business people.

 

As the brahmins have left tamil nadu, the true brahmins of tamil nadu are not the iyengars. I think the true nyanis are the shiva-shakti followers of trichi/kanchi or the good majority of muruga followers. There are many not-so-popular ramanamaharsi's in tamil nadu who may need to respected in society and speak up.

[Guest guest]

In tamil nadu untouchability is still there in villages. I have personally witnessed it myself.

[Guest guest]

I forgot to mention that people who engaged in it were not brahmins but nayakkars and devars.

[Guest guest]

 

Today we believe caste system was one section exploiting a weaker section. Men behaving as male chauvinist exploited women. All this is not nonsence. But it doesn't make sense to think about the past generation as this. It's not fair.

 

Today we have free press, internet, radio, TV, so many mediums. Sitting in a lazy couch we could form a million perceptions of different things around the world, past, present, future etc. And continuing to sit in a lazy couch we could go on changing the perceptions moment to moment like changing channels in TV.

 

This feature is more today than the time before the first invasion. The perceptions in people of those days might be only a fraction of a city dweller in the world.

 

So today the way we act is different from the way those people of the past acted. We may be acting with a higher level of perception than those guys of the past. So we may be fair to women, other sects and all that keeping media/general perceptions in mind. So this is no big deal for a person to do today, and to be considered good.

 

Penalizing brahmins of today with the perceptions of the past, is stupid. Tamil Nadu people cannot step down from their perceptions of the past and come to reality. There is still a lot of side lining of brahmins which goes on there.

 

And the iyengars of tamil nadu, who consider themselves as brahmins, have spoilt the name of brahmins. Iyengars are simply religious, ritualistic and pious looking opportunitic business people.

 

As the brahmins have left tamil nadu, the true brahmins of tamil nadu are not the iyengars. I think the true nyanis are the shiva-shakti followers of trichi/kanchi or the good majority of muruga followers. There are many not-so-popular ramanamaharsi's in tamil nadu who may need to respected in society and speak up.

You fail to define where iyengars are coming from . you have your own version of brahmins and it is pure baloney and bigotry. i hope your post made yourself peace at mind.

[Sephiroth]

 

I forgot to mention that people who engaged in it were not brahmins but nayakkars and devars.

And Tamil movies does a great job showing how great this jokers are and how "low caste" should behave.

One way of getting out of this problem is by redistributing the land to this so-called "lower caste" people so they could work together (in a group) to plant and harvest crops. Children from their own villages should be educated so they could administrate their own village, resources, crops and such.

Government should deal with them straightaway and not through middle-men like this so-called "upper class".

[Guest guest]

 

I forgot to mention that people who engaged in it were not brahmins but nayakkars and devars.

The caste system exists in all parts of the country and Brahmins are just as involved as anyone else.

 

The lines tend to blur in cities, but once you get out of cities, the system is still alive and almost unchanged with time.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

Here I see few people are wrong in understanding Brahmins sect.

Also, here few mentioned that Brahmins have to change and understand the truth what we are understanding here.

 

But I feel always other way round.

We have to change and adapt the samskaras of Brahmins. They are in a good society than we are!!

 

We being here in the forums finding god with our intellect and this way of reaching god is already defined as Jnana Yoga. Brahmin sect/caste is following things blindly and they are driven by one and only one that is Bhakti; we can also interpret as love or belief. This also defined already as Bhakti Yoga.

 

Already we all know that all our sacred texts are promoting more on Bhakti yoga than Jnana Yoga. We being in Jnana yoga, think that we do have important vehicle called Jnana to reach god. They being in Bhakti yoga, they also have a vehicle called Bhakti to reach god.

Interesting thing is when you compare these vehicles; Bhakti is like Rocket, once it takes inertia it reaches god and in no time reaches to very higher levels than we expect. Jnana is like Parachute (what I feel), it do rise but slowly and consistently. It also reaches to higher levels but not as very high as Rocket. One or the other levels we do have to shift from Parachute to Rocket i.e., Jnana to Bhakti to reach very higher levels. And this I hope can be realized more precisely at higher levels only. One big demerit in Bhakti yoga is unless they recognize and take inertia they never reach higher levels.

 

In our life, we do come across some Brahmins who behave absurd. We have to give time to realize the truth or you try to make them realize.

 

Hardly people in life turn up to understand Vedas and Upanishads; and especially Brahmins though they preach daily. But chances to reach god is high for them than we as they are very near to all these things like samskaras, scripts etc.

 

 

 

We're in that rare territory where the sequel is a triumph over the original.