Hindus and Muslims same?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

From another list:

 

>> Can u elaborate on how hindus and muslims are the same?

>

> To me it is simple. We are all human beings.

 

Well, lets see. They both have two arms, and a nose. These are kind of

external similarities. The Vedanta philosophy of the Bhagavad Gita speaks of

a oneness much higher. Not only a oneness between all humanity, but between

all living entities. We are all spiritual particulars, part and parcel of

God. In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna says:

 

vidya-vinaya sampanne

brahmane gavi hastini

suni caiva sva-pake ca

panditah sama-darsinah

 

"The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a

learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater."

 

The pandita, or learned man, (which is what most humans would claim to be)

is supposed to see all living entities as part and parcel of God. God is

present in everyone's heart as paramatma, and ultmimately all the individual

souls are of the same spiritual quality. Thus it is considered ignorance

(avidya) to judge life based on the external covering. It is like thinking a

man is a different person because he wore a different color shirt one day.

 

A couple interesting points are there in the verse. One is the use of the

words vidya-vinaya, knowledge and humility. Only if one possesses "humble

knowledge" will one actually be learned. What knowledge mankind has

cultivated today lacks humility, and thus our so-called knowledge has become

desctructive.

 

Another interesting point is the use of the word sva-pake (sva-paca) which

literally means a "dog cooker". In the Vedic culture the dog was considered

as an untouchable animal. One would be required to bath after touching a

dog. Even in the Agama (Pancaratrika) scriptures it is mentioned that an

offering for God becomes unofferable if it is seen by a dog. Now imagine

there is someone who is a cooker of dogs. Even such a person should be seen

with a spiritual vision, as he is not his external body, he is a spirit

soul, part and parcel of God.

 

The exact words used are sama-darsinah, or equal vision. It is not an

external equal vision, but an internal realization. It does not mean that

one should try to milk the brahmana and take scriptural lessons from the

cow. It means we must respect all living entities, knowing their spiritual

nature is the same as ours.

 

J.N.Das

 

[R_Srisan]

"If God is One and The Same,

 

Then it's only "being" differences,

 

that makes us all "Inane" !!!"

 

[original on the spot]

 

SRISAN

[Amarnath Raja]

If there is GOD! By the very defenition she is all powerful. She created the world and all people. I am sure a great power like her is above biases when creating someone in Arabia, Europe and India.

 

I firmly believe the 'Advaita' philosophy that all gods are the same and hence all human beings are the same. Some persons believe in Advaita - They are called Hindus.

 

Hence a Hindu cannot hate a Muslim or Christian. She cannot show distinction based on caste, creed, religion, sex or wealth. To her all human beings are the same.

 

Let us see how many real Hindus write to this forum!

 

 

[Praghosa dasa]

Here is the first verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam:

 

 

"O my Lord, Sri Krsna, son of Vasudeva, O all-pervading Personality of Godhead, I offer my respectful

 

obeisances unto You. I meditate upon Lord Sri Krsna because He is the Absolute Truth and the primeval cause of

 

all causes of the creation, sustenance and destruction of the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly

 

conscious of all manifestations, and He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only

 

who first imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmaji, the original living being. By Him even the great

 

sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in

 

fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactions

 

of the three modes of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Sri

 

Krsna, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations

 

of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth." (SB 1.1.1)

 

 

For the sake of the advaitist Hindus a bit rusty with their sanskrit, this translation is offered for the verses mentioned in the previous post by Srimati Jaya Sri Radhey. This translation is in line with the understanding of that very same Brahma who is the receiver of vedic knowledge spoken of in the verse cited above.

 

 

"Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or

 

Bhagavan." (SB 1.2.11)

 

 

 

"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a

 

friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." ( Bg 9.29)

 

 

 

"Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being -- moving or nonmoving --

 

that can exist without Me." (Bg 10.39)

 

 

 

"I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the

 

purifier and the syllable om. I am also the Rg, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas." (Bg 9.17)

 

 

 

"You are the father of this complete cosmic manifestation, of the moving and the nonmoving. You are its

 

worshipable chief, the supreme spiritual master. No one is equal to You, nor can anyone be one with You. How

 

then could there be anyone greater than You within the three worlds, O Lord of immeasurable power?" (Bg

 

11.43)

 

 

 

"One who sees the Supersoul accompanying the individual soul in all bodies, and who understands that neither the

 

soul nor the Supersoul within the destructible body is ever destroyed, actually sees." (Bg 13.28)

 

 

 

"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are

 

struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind." (Bg 15.7)

 

 

So it appears quite clearly that advaita philosophy is meant for another purpose than defining the Absolute Truth.

 

 

"Even though Lord Siva appeared to preach Mayavada philosophy, at the end of his pastime in the form of

 

Sankaracarya, he preached the Vaisnava philosophy: bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam

 

mudha-mate. He stressed worshiping Lord Krsna, or Govinda, three times in this verse and especially warned his

 

followers that they could not possibly achieve deliverance, or mukti, simply by word jugglery and grammatical

 

puzzles. If one is actually serious to attain mukti, he must worship Lord Krsna. That is Sripada Sankaracarya's last

 

instruction." (SB 4.24.18: purport by ACBSP)

 

[melvin]

There are three types of devotees described

in the book, Nectar of Instructions. They

are: 1) kanistha-adhikari 2) madhyama adhi-

kari and 3) uttama-adhikari.

The kanistha adhikari devotee of God can`t

distinguish between a person who is Krishna

conscious from a person who is not.

Whereas, the madhyama-adhikari devotee of

God is able to spot the person who is

Krishna conscious from the other who is not.

Whereas, the uttama-adhikari devotee of

God doesn`t discriminate a person from the

other whether one belongs to a particular

religious sect or not. Because he`s con-

vinced that Sri Govinda, the Supreme Perso-

nality of Godhead has entered into the

hearts of everyone as the Paramatma or the

Supersoul of all living entities, inclu-

ding Brahma, the creator of the universe.

The uttama-adhikari devotee of God therefore

is the maha-bhagavata of everyone. To him,

everybody, except himself, is a servant of

Krishna.

[Avinash]

Since a discussion on Islam is going on, I thought of reviving this thread.

[sushil_kanoria]

Hare Krishna to all the devottes,

I know muslims have two eyes, two hands , one nose etc.

The same thing Ravana was also having, Kumbhkarana was also having & Hiranyakashipu was also having, Is it not ??? Am I wrong ??

But the thing is muslims are demoniac by nature as other Asura's were, They are demons, no doubt about that, Also confirmed in the Bhavishya Puran.

So can one say Sura's & Asura's are same, or in other words, Hindus & Muslims are same ???

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil.

[Audarya lila]

Muslims are not demons, this is a very dangerous mentality to have. Demons come in all sorts of dresses and with all sorts of labels attached to them.

 

Will you judge a person on the basis of his religious affilitation? On the color of his skin? On the basis of gender? These are all external considerations. If you look deeper you may find that the concept of 'demon' is present within your own mind and the way in which you go about your own life. Demon means to be averse to God and to not see God in everyone and everything. Demon means to have a seperate interest from God based on selfishness. Where is the demon? Where is the deva? These two opposites exist within us all. The fact that we are in the material world, unless we were sent here to do the bidding of Krsna, is indicative of our demoniac nature. If we weren't averse to Krsna we would not be here.

 

From what I have seen, the goal of the devout Muslim is to dedicate him/herself to serve God completely. To die to the world and live in service. This is not different than the goal of the Hindu. The nomenclature and the rituals performed in pursuance of the goal differ, but the essence of the pursuit is the same.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[sushil_kanoria]

Hari Bol Audarya lila,

"Aapkee lila to sachmuch aparam bar"

I don't know from which part of the world you come from.

I invite you to come to hyderabad,which is in India, I will just take you to the old city of Hyderabed, there is one mosque called Mecca Mosque, just go there on friday noon, & just see the trailor, then give the statement whether they are demons or not, Every friday the situation is the same, in the name of sermons the head of the mosque will say we have to fight & kill the kafirs(Non-Muslims) & to take part in the jehad.

so when they come out after offering the namaz, they will start throwing the stone at the police & toward the hindus who are just passing through it, So what is it ?? Serving God ?? You can see the same scenario every friday.

See it's very easy to give statements, sitting at one place, but when you go into deep then you will understand, what actually it is.

It's not only in Hyderadad but in the 99% of the mosque present in India.

I ask you one question

In india every one has been given freedom of practising his/her religion, or rather say being a hindu country, muslims are given much more importance than the hindus.

You go to Saudi Arab, you can not enter to that country if you have the deity of hindu GOD, or even a photo of the GOD, what to speak of building a temple there.why ??

because they don't believe in idol worship.

I sincerely advise you to come india & visit the mosqe here on friday, you will come to know what sort of worshiping is going on there.Or in what way they are serving the God.

(By spreading non-violence, so that one can say, yes the age of Kali has arrived, in this way I agree, yes they are serving the GOD.)

 

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil

 

[karthik_v]

Hare Krishna,

 

I agree with Sushil Kanoria. Why is that we accept Islam as a bonafide religion in the first place? Just because someone says that he is God's empowered prophet, should we accept that? Would we also accept a Sai Baba who is harmless? Would we have accepted Nazism as a religion, had Hitler claimed to be God's representative? Or is it that we accept Islam out of fear?

 

Somewhwre I read that the world understands the language of force and respects it.

 

I have read the Quran and I don't see anything spiritual in it. Instead it is a criminal document, on par with Mein Kempf. Mohammad was no more than a pedophile, rapist, murderer and arsonist. It is time we call a spade a spade.

 

I can never fathom that those who condemn a bonafide school like Advaita will never say a word about Islam. They even glorify it. Nothing can be more of an aparadh than to say that Allah and Krishna are the same.

[sushil_kanoria]

Hari Hari Bol Karthik,

I am happy atleast you know true picture of islam.

Yes mohammad was a not less than a child abuser, Exactly!

A grown up person(mohammed) marrying a four year old child(Aayesha),what sort of act it will be called.....

 

A PIOUS ACT

 

I want to ask Audarya, what is it, an act of serving GOD ????

When I asked the same thing to the muslim people, you know Karthik what explanation they gave me ??

 

As Ayesha was an orphan & there was no one to look after him that's why he married that 4 years old infant.

Then I told them what was the need to marry a child, he would have adopted her as a daughter, they were mum.

 

This is not the only instance there are several instance like that.

My kind advise to AUDARYA is kindly think 100 times before you praise a muslim,

because they are not less than a demon.

I feel even Ravana was better than these muslims.

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil.

 

[bhaktajoy]

Bhavishya Purana predicts the coming of Prophet Muhammed.Lord Krishna sent him to lay down a spiritual path for the people of middle east who were not very intelligent.

 

99.99% of population is demonic(Godless) today.It's not our business to condemn.Once we were also in a Muslim body who knows?,now going up the ladder towards God(love).In all this hodge-podge we often forget something important--love.Krishna is love.

 

So-called "evil" does not really exist, at least not in the way it is thought of on earth. What passes for "evil" is really ignorance (i.e. darkness). Light is knowledge of higher spiritual realities and darkness is ignorance of higher spiritual realities. Our ignorance causes us to make mistakes from which we must learn. In the end, those who make the most mistakes will learn the most.

 

God does not care about a person's religious affiliation, only his or her heart.

 

Doctrine, creed and race mean nothing. No matter what we believe we are all children of God and the only rule is God's true law - do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

The true definition of "sin" is believing you are separate from others and God, then acting accordingly.

 

Our religious affiliation is unimportant to God. What is important is how we show our love for God by the way we treat others.

 

God created different religions because of the different lessons different people need to learn.

 

There are really only two "true" religions: the religion of love and the religion of fear.

 

The gods of one faith are the angels, saints, or supernatural beings of other faiths. There is only one God who is worshipped through many different teachings of many different religions.

 

The most important thing is to really live what our religion teaches. We must put it into practice. Whatever we practice becomes a part of us, whether good or bad.

 

Those religions, which claim some singular relationship with God, claim superiority over other religions, or exclude people for various reasons, go against God's law that we love one another as we love ourselves.

 

The only purpose of our existence is to dedicate our lives to be faithful to God in all things.

 

If we are not really trying to reform ourselves, becoming all good like God is, and not living God's teachings, then we are on the road to a much more painful afterlife. The key is striving to live the Golden Rule: do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

 

This Hindu-Muslim mentality is taking over India and bewildering the minds of even learned men.Big time nonsense.

 

God is love. Love is light. God is the light that loves.

 

The only reality is God and God is love. God loves without limit. God is everything.

 

God is everywhere because nothing exists that is not a part of God.Life itself is God.

 

God is the creative energy of the universe, expressing itself as us and everything else. Wherever we are, God is. Like God, we are constantly expressing ourselves in some way.

 

All creation is God exploring God's very Being through every way imaginable, through every one of us.

 

Within the light of God, we realize that everyone and everything is connected to God. In the light is the cure for all diseases, the knowledge within every universe. The light is wisdom and love beyond all comprehension.

 

The closer one gets to God, the closer one comes to all the light, love and knowledge in the universe.

 

Being one with God is like suddenly knowing every grain of sand in the universe and knowing why God put it there.

 

God is more than light. God is also the darkness. God is everything.

 

The small inner voice in your thoughts is the voice of God.

 

The little voice inside us that prompts us to do good things comes from God. It is the light of love inside each of us.

 

God doesn't force anyone to heaven, hell, or anywhere. We are free to choose and build our destiny. All paths lead back to God.

 

In the light of God, it is impossible to lie to yourself, or to others or to God. There is no place for secrets to hide.

 

God does not judge us when we die. In the clear light and love of God, some may judge, condemn and punish only themselves. There is no judgment except the judgment one levels at oneself.

 

God has promised not to intervene in our lives unless we ask.

 

It is God's love that sends us on our journey and it is our love for God that allows us to return.

 

God feels our pain when we hurt.

 

God's standard is pure love. Our lives will be compared to this standard in the light of God. Pure love is serving God and others without having self-centered motives.

 

God's overriding desire is to purify the darkness of our souls, irrespective of the suffering it puts us through to achieve that end. If we learn to accept our situations in life, instead of fighting it, then our suffering is greatly minimized

 

God does not care about theology. God cares mostly about your heart.

 

Your beliefs shape the kind of feedback you get from God.

 

It doesn't matter what you call God. The different religions have different ways of explaining the same God.

 

"Love is all."

 

Joy

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 04-12-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 04-12-2002).]

[bhaktajoy]

"The best way to get to heaven is to take it with you. " - Henry Drummond

 

"You grow to heaven. You don't go to heaven. " - Edgar Cayce

 

"Your religion is where your love is." - Henry David Thoreau

 

"To love is to receive a glimpse of heaven." - Karen Sunde

 

"Life is eternal; and love is immortal; and death is only a horizon; and a horizon is nothing save the limit of our sight." - R. W. Raymond

 

"To appreciate heaven well it is good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell." - Will Carleton

 

"No heaven can come to us unless our hearts find rest in it today." - Fra Giovanni

 

"We are going to link up, hold hands, and walk out of hell together." - Mellen Benedict

 

"The best religion is the religion that brings you closest to God." the Being of Light as told to Howard Storm during a near-death experience

 

"The only reality is God. There cannot be another and God is love." - Linda Stewart

 

"From the light we have come and to the light we all shall return." - Josiane Antonette

 

"The conquering of self is truly greater than were one to conquer many worlds." - Edgar Cayce

 

"All you may know of heaven or hell is within your own self." - Edgar Cayce

 

"From what may anyone be saved? Only from themselves! That is, their individual hell. They dig it with their own desires." - Edgar Cayce

 

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

 

"Nothing in life is to be feared, only understood." - Madame Marie Curie

 

"Even a thought, even a possibility, can shatter us and transform us." – Nietzsche

 

"I know no disease of the soul but ignorance, a pernicious evil, the darkener of man's life, the disturber of his reason, and common confounder of truth." - Ben Johnson

 

"A mind stretched by a new idea can never go back to its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

"Day by day we are building for eternity ... Every gentle word, every generous thought, every unselfish deed will become a pillar of eternal beauty in the life to come." - Rebecca Springer

 

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 

"Love as much as you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can." - anonymous

 

"Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death." - the Gospel of Thomas

 

"Self-luminous is Brahman, ever present in the hearts of all. He is the refuge of all, he is the supreme goal ... Attain him, O my friend, the one goal to be attained!" - Mundaka Upanishad

 

"There are innumerable definitions of God because His manifestations are innumerable."

 

"One good deed is worth a thousand prayers." – Zarathushtra

 

"By giving away food we get more strength. By bestowing clothing on others we gain more beauty. By donating abodes of purity and truth we acquire great treasures." – Buddha

 

"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - the Tibetan Book of the Dead

 

"When the heart weeps for what it has lost, the soul laughs for what it has found." - Sufi aphorism

 

"It is within you that the Divine lives." - Joseph Campbell

 

"Behold, a sacred voice is calling you. All over the sky a sacred voice is calling." - Black Elk

 

"All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons of earth. Humans did not weave the web of life. He is merely a strand of it. Whatever he does to the web he does to himself." - Chief Seattle

 

"Think of stepping on the shore and finding it heaven, of touching a hand and finding it God's, of breathing new air and finding it celestial, of waking up in glory and finding it home." - Don Wyrtzen

 

"The heavens call to you and circle around you displaying to you their eternal splendors." – Dante

 

"Love is the only thing that we can carry with us when we go, and it makes the end so easy." - Louisa May Alcott

 

"Love is most nearly itself when here and now cease to matter." - T.S. Eliot

 

I love you all.

Joy

 

[sushil_kanoria]

Hari Bol Bakta joy,

I think you haven't gone through the bhavishya puran.

Just read it & then tell me your opinion.

 

Shri Suta Gosvami said: In the dynasty of king Shalivahana, there were ten kings who went to the heavenly planets after ruling for over 500 years. Then gradually the morality declined on the earth. At that time Bhojaraja was the tenth of the kings on the earth. When he saw that the moral law of conduct was declining he went to conquer all the directions of his country with ten-thousand soldiers commanded by Kalidasa. He crossed the river Sindhu and conquered over the gandharas, mlecchas, shakas, kasmiris, naravas and sathas. He punished them and collected a large ammount of wealth. Then the king went along with Mahamada (Mohammad), the preceptor of mleccha-dharma, and his followers to the great god, Lord Shiva, situated in the desert. He bathed Lord Shiva with Ganges water and worshipped him in his mind with pancagavya (milk, ghee, yoghurt, cow dung, and cow urine) and sandalwood paste, etc. After he offered some prayers and pleased him.

 

Suta Goswami said: After hearing the king’s prayers, Lord Shiva said: O king Bhojaraja, you should go to the place called Mahakakshvara, that land is called Vahika and now is being contaminated by the mlecchas. In that terrible country there no longer exists dharma. There was a mystic demon named Tripura, whom I have already burnt to ashes, he has come again by the order of Bali. He has no origin but he achieved a benediction from me. His name is Mahaoda and his deeds are like that of a ghost. Therefore, O king, you should not go to this land of the evil ghost. By my mercy your intelligence will be purified. Hearing this the king came back to his country and Mahamada came with them to the bank of the river Sindhu. He was expert in expanding illusion, so he said to the king very pleasingly: O great king, your god has become my servant. Just see, as he eats my remnants, so I will show you. The king became surprised when he saw this just before them. Then in anger Kalidasa rebuked Mahamada, “O rascal, you have created an illusion to bewilder the king, I will kill you, you are the lowest..."

 

 

 

[...]

 

That city is known as their site of pilgrimage, a place which was Madina or free from intoxication. Having a form of a ghost (Bhuta), the expert illusionist Mahamada appeared at night in front of king Bhojaraja and said: O king, your religion is of course known as the best religion among all. Still I am going to establish a terrible and demoniac religion by the order of the Lord. The symptoms of my followers will be that they first of all will cut their genitals, have no shikha, but having beard, be wicked, make noise loudly and eat everything. They should eat animals without performing any rituals. This is my opinion. They will perform purificatory act with the musala or a pestle as you purify your things with kusha. Therefore, they will be known as musalman, the corrupters of religion. Thus the demoniac religion will be founded by me. After having heard all this the king came back to his palace and that ghost went back to his place.

 

The intelligent king, Bhojaraj established the language of Sanskrit in three varnas - the brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaisyas - and for the shudras he established prakrita-bhasha, the ordinary language spoken by common men. After ruling his kingdom for 50 years, he went to the heavenly planet. The moral laws established by him were honored even by the demigods. The arya-varta, the pious land is situated between Vindhyacala and Himacala or the mountains known as Vindhya and Himalaya. The Aryans reside there, but varna-sankaras reside on the lower part of Vindhya. The musalman people were kept on the other side of the river Sindhu.

 

 

On the island of Barbara, Tusha and many others also the followers of Isamsiha were also situated as they were managed by a king or demigods.

 

 

& please for GOD sake don't say anything untill you have concrete proof.

If you think by giving quotes of "so called big people" will be able to make your point right.

 

then please read the above passage of Shri suta Goswami.

 

------------

This Hindu-Muslim mentality is taking over India and bewildering the minds of even so called learned men.Big time nonsense

------------

 

 

And let me tell you one thing just because of the hindus like you in India, the condition has become like this (horrible), one day will come that these muslims will make whole India as another pakistan, then I will see how people like you will go to temple, as all temple will be demolished by them, Frankly speaking we too have immense love for the Supreme personality of the GOD head Lord Krishan, but at the same time we also know how to tackle these demons(Muslims)

What Hanuman has done in Lanka ?? he killed many demons there, do you think after doing this he lost luv for Rama ??

I am not saying I am Hanuman, but we have to tackle these demons (Muslims)

 

Sorry bhaktajoy for being bit harsh.

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil.

 

[This message has been edited by sushil_kanoria (edited 04-12-2002).]

[bhaktajoy]

Dear Sushil,

Hare Krishna!Please accept my humble obeisances.Please do not take my quotes literally I was only expressing my ideas I am just a foolish teenager anyway...Please forgive me for any offense.

 

Yes I haven't read the whole Bhavishya Purana,I do remember something about establishment of a terrible religion.

 

I have always wondered why it is like that...what is the solution to this Hindu-Muslim problem?Generally in this age population is foolish and only very few can handle this situation in a healthy way.Let us preach good will and pray...Krsna will take care of rest.

 

Thank you Sushil ji for your kind reply.No it isn't harsh at all!God bless you.

 

Love & blessings,Joy

 

 

 

[Audarya lila]

Dear Sushil,

 

As I said above, Demons come in all colors, shapes, sizes, denominations etc.

 

I live in the United States presently. I have been to India many years ago. I also lived in a muslim country for a year. You may have heard of it - the name is Malaysia. There are many hindu temples in Malaysia and the people get along with each other very well. I sold a set of Srimad Bhagavatams to a wonderful Mulim gentleman in that country.

 

Fanatics abound and they are certainly not limited to people who call themselves Muslim.

 

Violence and demoniac acts have been committed by both 'hindu' and 'muslim' alike in this on-going hatred. This is politics, not religion.

 

Dear Karthik,

 

I think when you get the folio you should look carefully through what Srila Prabhupada had to say about Allah. You may also want to look at how Sriman Mahaprabhu dealt with Muslims.

 

I have not read the Koran, except in very small bits and pieces, so I cannot comment on your remarks other than to say that your characterization of Muhammad is certainly not found in that book. What I have read and from my exchanges with various Muslims I gather that their theology is not unlike Advaita theology. Probably the reason that so much emphasis is given to explaining the differences between Advaita vada and the various dualistic conceptions of Vedanta is precisely that the same scriptural cannon is used for the different belief systems. As the Koran is a completely different entity and is not a part of the Vedic scriptural revelation it does not get as much attention from the Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

 

At any rate I am interested in developing love for Krsna and that includes all people. Haridas Thakur was a muslim and Rupa and Sanatana Goswamis were considered muslim based on their service within the muslim government. Yet they were not dismissed as being demons. Nor was the Chand Kasi.

 

There are plenty of groups in the world that one can decide are demoniac and therefore engage in hateful thoughts and (eventually actions) toward. Here in America we have gangs, skin heads, neo-nazis, on and on and on - so many groups. Many of them thrive on hate of another group or ideology. Mahaprabhus movement is not about hate or vilification of others. It is about love of everyone and everything and giving the highest thing to the most unqualified.

 

Lord Nityanada gave out his mercy to Jagai and Madhai, maybe if you two really think that Muslims are so bad and unqualified you should try to distribute the mercy of Mahaprabhu to them. Certainly this will be pleasing to the Lord.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[karthik_v]

Hari Bol Sushil,

 

I want to ask Audarya, what is it, an act of serving GOD ????

When I asked the same thing to the muslim people, you know Karthik what explanation they gave me ??

 

As Ayesha was an orphan & there was no one to look after him that's why he married that 4 years old infant.

 

They are just bluffing. Ayesha was Abu Bakr's [a close associate of Mohammad [actually pronounced as Maha mudha]. She was 6 years old when Mohammad cast his lusty eyes on her. Mohammad was 53 then. When he asked her in marriage, Abu Bakr was unenthusiastic. Which father would be? But, since Mohammad insisted, he consented. [Perhaps out of fear. Everyone knows what Mohammad did in Sufyan]. He just put one condition that Mohammad not consummate the marriage until Ayesha turned 9 years old. Mohammad agreed and acted accordingly [raped a child], once Ayesha turned 9 [he was 56 then].

 

Bhaktajoy Prabhu:

 

Bhavishya Purana predicts the coming of Prophet Muhammed.Lord Krishna sent him to lay out a spiritual path for the people of middle east who were not very intelligent.

 

It is better to take BP with a pinch of salt. Most puranas were interpolated during the past 1000 years. No school of Hinduism regards BP as reliable. If I remember correctly, the redaction of BP we have was compiled in the court of Aurangazeb. It was in the same court that Allopanishad was written and the present version of Manusmriti compiled. I think that Krishna has better standards for His messengers. Just look at our own SP and what a glorious life he lived. Please don't elevate Mohammad to the same levels as SP or Ramanuja or Sankara.

 

99.99% of population is demonic(Godless) today.It's not our business to condemn.Once we were also in a Muslim body who knows?

 

May be I was once in the body of a rapist and murderer. Should I approve those acts?

 

So-called "evil" does not really exist, at least not in the way it is thought of on earth. What passes for "evil" is really ignorance (i.e. darkness).

 

Could you kindly say that to the devotees whose temple was razed in Turkmenistan? Or to the innocent who were killed in Godhra?

 

Audarya Lila Prabhuji,

 

You may have heard of it - the name is Malaysia. There are many hindu temples in Malaysia and the people get along with each other very well. I sold a set of Srimad Bhagavatams to a wonderful Mulim gentleman in that country.

 

Also, you may want to know that the Muslims are pressing for Ismaic rule in Malaysia. There are always good Muslims. I have no problem with them. The problem is with ISlam, which needs to be eradicated. Muslims are just afflicted by that disease. No, I don't want to kill the patient - just the virus.

 

I think when you get the folio you should look carefully through what Srila Prabhupada had to say about Allah. You may also want to look at how Sriman Mahaprabhu dealt with Muslims.

 

I will certainly do that. I am not dogmatic and will change my views, if shown to be wrong. BTW, what has SP said about Islam? I have heard from some devotees who associated with SP that SP spoke very little about Islam, though he has praised Jesus lavishly.

 

I have not read the Koran, except in very small bits and pieces, so I cannot comment on your remarks other than to say that your characterization of Muhammad is certainly not found in that book.

 

If you are interested, I can post the relevant sections from the Koran and Hadiths to prove my point.

 

What I have read and from my exchanges with various Muslims I gather that their theology is not unlike Advaita theology.

 

With due respect to you may I say "Please spare me this torture"? Kindly read the writngs of H H Swami Chandrasekharendra Saraswati of Kanchi Sankara mutt, before you set out to compare Advaita and Islam. Please click on Hindu dharma and enjoy the rest:

http://kamakoti.org

 

Mahaprabhus movement is not about hate or vilification of others.

 

Agreed. I don't hate the Muslims. As an aspiring devotee of Krishna, I want to liberate them from the clutches of Islam.

 

Lord Nityanada gave out his mercy to Jagai and Madhai, maybe if you two really think that Muslims are so bad and unqualified you should try to distribute the mercy of Mahaprabhu to them. Certainly this will be pleasing to the Lord.

 

Perhaps, it will be pleasing to the Lord, but not to my dear wife and my twin little children, because if I try to ditribute the mercy of Mahaprabhu to the Muslims, some mullah will issue fatwa against me!!! I would rather be less merciful and be a responsible family man!!

[gHari]

I think we're lucky these animals have any religion at all!

[bhaktajoy]

Dear Karthik Prabhu,

Krsna or Allah they are names of the absolute truth.God created different religions because of the different lessons different people need to learn.Under his higher authority different paths are laid down from time to time.

 

>>May be I was once in the body of a rapist and murderer. Should I approve those acts?

 

No you shouldn't.I was talking about a soul trapped in a body which is not very intelligent to understand higher truths.At least Muslims pray to God and worship him.Not all Muslims are fundamentalist,God has not given up on them...they are learning.

 

>>Could you kindly say that to the devotees whose temple was razed in Turkmenistan? Or to the innocent who were killed in Godhra?

 

Great souls are always put to the test.Some hidden truth behind them??There is no coincidences in this world everything happens for a reason.

 

We must forgive,forget and move on.All things must pass on.All suffering is worth it,Krsna is waiting at the end of our lives to take us back home.We are not these bodies and never fall prey to the clutches of maya.

 

Hope this meets you in good health and spirit!

God bless

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 04-13-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 04-13-2002).]

[Guest guest]

 

Originally posted by bhaktajoy:

Dear Karthik Prabhu,

Krsna or Allah they are names of the absolute truth.

 

There is no direct sastric pramana to support this. Except in the sense that there can be no name that is not God's.

 

There is nothing wrong in scrutinizing a releigion or its proponent. We see problems of child abuse, rape of unprotected women and elimination of opponents etc., in all evengelist religions like Christianity. But in the case of Islam, Maha mudha (Mohammed) himself sets this kind of bad example. Let u realize one thing - false glorification will keep us intoxicated. But truth is so powerful that it will prevail irrespective of our acceptance.

[bhaktajoy]

Dear Ram Prabhu,

If a muslim man who is very kind hearted who dosen't distinguish between religions closes his eyes and prays sincerely to Allah with humility,God will not listen.Are you saying this?

 

I understand Islam is a 3rd class religion.

 

God bless.

 

[bhaktajoy]

To save Vedic knowledge we need to enlighten our fellow hindu brothers & sisters.Hindus are already aware of the concepts(and language) so it would be easy to grasp the truth.

[karthik_v]

Bhaktajoy Prabhuji,

Hare Krishna! AGTSP! PAMHO!

 

Not all Muslims are fundamentalist,God has not given up on them...they are learning.

 

I agree with you that not all Muslims are fundamentalists. In fact most are not. They are as human as we are. But, Islam is very fundamentalistic. It advocates eradication of other religions and its adherents. That is what I am questioning. It brooks no criticism and the critics meet with death. That should be cause for serious concern in any civilized society. Kindly allow me to clarify that I am not against Muslims at all.

 

We must forgive,forget and move on.

 

We can forgive certain crimes - not all. We should not forget. History revisits those who forget it. Yes, we should move on - that also mandates that we correct the terrible things that Islam stands for. If we don't, our move shall end up going backwards. Again I am pondering to what extent we can really forgive. I am wondering how easy it is for a Hindu man in Kashmir whose daughter, sister, wife or mother has been raped or forcibly taken away by the Muslims, to forgive the Muslims or Islam. It is very easy to advocate these things, so long as we are safe. You may ask if Islam should be blamed for the crimes of a few Muslims. Yes, I would say. Islam has codified intolerance towards and violence against other religions. Mohammad has done the very same things. The extremist Muslims are just following that in letter and spirit. India has seen rape and plunder at the hands of Muslims for the past 1000 years. Knowledgeable Hindus find it hard to forgive. More so, when the Muslims haven't changed a bit and Islam remains as it was then. That is dangerous.

 

If a muslim man who is very kind hearted who dosen't distinguish between religions closes his eyes and prays sincerely to Allah with humility,God will not listen.Are you saying this?

 

A very interesting question. I recall reading SP's commentary [don't remember where] where he says that those who follow a bogus guru also suffer either in this life or another. There is also a story about a false guru who becomes a snake and his disciples end up as ants. SP was against sentimental religion. So, praying with sincerity and humility isn't enough. I am sure that the followers of Sai Baba are humble and sincere too, but are they worshipping the Supreme? So, one must worship the Supreme as well as follow His bonafide representative. Only then will Krishna deliver him. On the other hand, if one follows a criminal like Mohammad, no matter how sincerely, he will have to suffer.

 

That is my take. I would like your as well as other devotees' thoughts on this.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by bhaktajoy:

To save Vedic knowledge we need to enlighten our fellow hindu brothers & sisters.Hindus are already aware of the concepts(and language) so it would be easy to grasp the truth.

I agree 100%. It is sad that most Hindus don't read their scriptures. In fact, I woud gladly exchange my Indian brothers and sisters for more sincere westerners. That way, we can take better care of our temples.

 

 

[Tarun]

When I see Baloney Sharony, I'm reminded of Goldfinger:

a spittin' image, specially that Lasarbeam scene.

Arafat does slightly resemble Doctor No, with all 10 intact.

Jews & Muslims hate when their kids become VaiSNavas.

Muslims r sometimes willing to kill that converted child.

Jews formerly hired deprogrammers like Black Lightnin' Ted Patrick

... to unbrainwash their SHAVEN FEW.

Hindus r giving up their culture in favor of eat, drink, be merry

... then suffer like every other pig in the poke

Christians present a limited version of God: only One Son

Some say Jews convinced Romans to crucify Christ.

Ergo, Jews contracted someone else to do their dirty work.

Some say Christians r doing same thing now by supporting Israel.

"Let Those 2 groups fight it out. All we want is secure oil."

Economics has taken over, got top-billing