Hindus and Muslims same?

[Guest guest]

One should slay the aggressors as a matter of duty. But there are a number of other things one should do. Expose the evil of Mohammed and Islam through reason and humour.

 

Even today we cannot go and preach freely in Pakistan, Iraq or parts of Hyderabad in India. Whereas right under the nose of Lord Ranganatha in Sri Rangam muslims run slaughter houses killing cows and talking of coveting brahmin ladies. One would simply laugh sarcastically at Lord Ranganatha who is considered to be the protector of cows and brahmins - go brahmana hitaya ca. He is simply unable to do it. One who thinks he is benefitting from Vedic dharma should protect the Vedas, brahmanas and the cows and all the asthigas irrespective of their caste, community and nationality.

[theist]

The fact that they are allowed to slaughter cows just because they are Muslim makes no sense.

 

All in the name of secular govt. I suppose.Let them take their bloody business to Pakistan.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by theist:

The fact that they are allowed to slaughter cows just because they are Muslim makes no sense.

 

All in the name of secular govt. I suppose. Let them take their bloody business to Pakistan.

As a beginning, we should educate people about the glorious Vedic Dharma. And the nonsense and the evil of Islam. Eventually, this will lead to protection of holy dhams from gross sinful activities.

[leyh]

Originally posted by sushil_kanoria:

Hari Hari Bol Legh,

Exactly one should always kill in the self defence, & the same thing we are doing, In godhra they have killed many hindus, & if we don't start killing them now then in future they will kill us, So, in order to take a precautionary measure we have started killing them.

They will not come & say come on, beware! now we will be killing you, be ready to face us, they will just come & will kill us, So according to me "ATTACK IS THE BEST DEFENCE"

 

hare Krishna,

Sushil.

Sushil:

 

So in order to prevent the Muslims from killing you,you kill them first,and soon they will prevent you from killing them first by killing you first.This is not self-defence.This is MAD --- Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

karthik dear,

what is thart 786??? Pls elaborate... Don't leave us in a suspense.

 

abhi

Hari Bol Abhi the great!

 

786 written in Arabic is considered very holy by the Muslims. You can find that symbolism in many of their books, holy sites etc.. But, none of them knows what it means. The following link argues, quite convincingly in my opinion, that it is nothing but Om. Generally, I take this site with a pinch of salt, but this piece is good, more so because Muslims don't have any explanation.

 

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/aditichaturvedi/vpopia2.html

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by sushil_kanoria:

Hari Bol Ram,

I am extremely sorry & please please forgive me for my fault as I didn't read the thread fully, I again apologize for the mistake I have comitted, I am really feeling very embarassed, hope you will forgive the blunder I have commited.

 

Now coming to Mr. Legh, if we should not indulge in killing muslims then they will kill us.

You tell me one thing what was the need to kill so many demons during Trete yuga & dwapar yuge by so many Kshatriya's, just to protect Brahmins.

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil.

Haribol, Sushil:

 

The Vedas sanction killing as a means of self defence.It does not enjoin killing in the spirit of hate and revenge.So how are you going to "indulge in the killing of Muslims"? Are you going to kill all Muslims indiscriminately? Do you think that all Muslims are demons?

 

If a person kills with hate and violence in one's heart in the name of God,then that person is a demon,regardless of whether he professes to be Christian, Hindu or Muslim or whatever.In the Bhagavad-gita, Krsna enjoins Arjuna to fight in the battle fo Kuruksetra in the spirit of duty.Krsna never instructs Arjuna to work himself into a frenzy of hate and violence and "kill the demons".

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-03-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 05-03-2002).]

[abhi_the_great]

kill or perish. The two options Islam has left the world with.

 

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/aditichaturvedi/j6hapdroi.html

 

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

kill or perish. The two options Islam has left the world with.

 

http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/aditichaturvedi/j6hapdroi. html

 

 

There are only two things to do :

 

1. expose the evil of islam and mohammed so that as many - good muslims if there are - leave

2. destroy any islamic neighbourhood where riot starts

[sushil_kanoria]

Ram,

Presently they are doing the same, Go to Kashmir you will come to know.

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil

 

Originally posted by leyh:

Sushil:

 

So in order to prevent the Muslims from killing you,you kill them first,and soon they will prevent you from killing them first by killing you first.This is not self-defence.This is MAD --- Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by sushil_kanoria:

Ram,

Presently they are doing the same, Go to Kashmir you will come to know.

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil

 

It should be global. I think the best way to destroy Islam is to make a movie on the life of Mohammed. If people still follow him after knowing what all he did, they are evil.

 

[abhi_the_great]

Happy to see that there are few practical people around. I am tired of the philosophers. Has philosophy blinded man from becoming down to earth practical and seeing things the way they are.

 

Why do some people not understand that Islam is a threat to any form of religion and practice in the world. Its a plague which is being forcefully spread across the world. One really need not be a genius to see thru the games these people play.

 

If not today, tomorrow they will strike on all forms of idol worshippers. Today we might cry out of compassion for muslims. But if we do not gear our self up for the final playdown, we will all have to cry for not having been pro-active and intutive. We will have to cry that it is Krishna's will that Vaishnavism perish.

 

I am not saying that we attack now. But we prepare ourself mentally and physicall and spiritually for the truth that will descend. It has happened many times in the past too. One need not be a fortune teller or a forcaster to understand the inevitable.

 

It wd be appropriate if we can get some sort of training including weapon training. Yes, for defensive purposes.

 

Hari Hari

Abhi

 

[sushil_kanoria]

Yes I agree with the views of Ram & Abhi-the-great, we have to do something like that, but the thing is muslims defend each & every act of mohammed, the child abuser.

But still we have to try our level best, & rest to leave at the lotus feet of Lord Krishna.

 

Haro Bol,

Sushil.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

Happy to see that there are few practical people around. I am tired of the philosophers. Has philosophy blinded man from becoming down to earth practical and seeing things the way they are.

 

Why do some people not understand that Islam is a threat to any form of religion and practice in the world.

 

I am not saying that we attack now. But we prepare ourself mentally and physicall and spiritually for the truth that will descend. It has happened many times in the past too. One need not be a fortune teller or a forcaster to understand the inevitable.

 

Hari Hari

Abhi

It is the will of God that Islam perish. Many seers have forseen that across religious traditions. As vedantins, we should show compassion towards the muslims which means they are saved from their hellish path. If we dont educate and warn more and more will be brain washed by this deadly epidemic and when Islam persihes more people will perish with it. So philosophy is practical.

 

[Guest guest]

 

If you live by the sword,you will die by the sword.

 

Why is there so much anger towards muslims?

Anger is described in sastra,as being in Tamo-Guna,the mode of ignorance.

Why?

Because,reality,is that everything is going on by the will of God.

If you do not see with this vision,and are angry by what is going on,then you are ignorant.

Nothing and no one is acting independently from God.

Dharma,is acting in accordance with this understanding.

You see muslims doing this and that ,thinking this and that.

Krishna says,do not be fooled into thinking, they are not under my direction.

That is Maya,illusion.

"Everyone follows my path in all respects",this is reality,any other concept,is Maya.

Mahaprabhu Sri Caitanya shows the way,again.

When his movement and life was threatened by the muslim rulers,he did not physically fight them,what did he do?

He enlightened them,gave them love.

This is the recommended process,not that you should scheme to force your conception on others.

That is God's affair.

Physician,heal thyself.

 

 

 

[Jagat]

Pretty frightening.

[Guest guest]

Shiva, no one said unmindly violence. The first step is education. But when some one is violently intolerant, such aggressors should be punished. It is the duty of the government to punish such aggressors. If you dont punish the real aggressors, common people - hindus and muslims - will be affected. One should preach to the innocent - incl. muslims. But one should be practical and fight the aggressors who are hell bent on destroying the sanatana dharma. When the muslims invaded Sri Rangam, the brahmanas there fought to protect the Lord and his paraphernalia within their capacity. Not fighting aggressors is cowardice. And cowardice is not compassion.

 

kutasva kas'malam idam vishame samupasthitham

anArya jushtam asvargyam akIrti karam arjuna

 

klaibhyam ma sma gamah parth na etat tvayyupapadyate

kshudram hrdaya dourbhalyam tyaktvottishta parantapa

[Jagat]

Muslims are unfortunately the scapegoats for Hindu failure. No one is entirely without blame, and Muslims may be a little more blameworthy than others. But I really don't think that anything will be gained by increasing the violence.

 

Nevertheless, if it is the general conviction of India's majority that the secular law should be applied to everyone, then they should do so. Any aspects of Sharia that are anathema to secular consciousness should be superseded by the secular state, just as legislation superseded Hindu customs related to child marriage, Sati, widow remarriage, etc., as long as the minority is not tyrannized in cases where the application of Sharia is not harmful to the society as a whole.

 

I also think that where Muslim actions are an affront to Hindu sensibilities, such as slaughter houses in the proximity of temples, some law should be passed.

 

The trouble is really more that the rule of law is very weak in India, with corruption and mob rule being the more customary appliers of judgment than regular procedure. Increasing mob rule will not solve the problem.

 

Jagat

 

 

[theist]

Originally posted by Jagat:

harmful to the society as a whole.

 

I also think that where Muslim actions are an affront to Hindu sensibilities, such as slaughter houses in the proximity of temples, some law should be passed.

 

Jagat

 

 

That would be a step in the right direction,but it doesn't go far enough.Hindu sensibilities will be offended anywhere that the cow is slaughtered.

 

It should be outlawed throughout the country.

 

Other animals should also be protected in like manner,but at least the cow in India.That is the bare minimum.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Jagat:

Muslims are unfortunately the scapegoats for Hindu failure. No one is entirely without blame, and Muslims may be a little more blameworthy than others. But I really don't think that anything will be gained by increasing the violence.

 

Nevertheless, if it is the general conviction of India's majority that the secular law should be applied to everyone, then they should do so. Any aspects of Sharia that are anathema to secular consciousness should be superseded by the secular state, just as legislation superseded Hindu customs related to child marriage, Sati, widow remarriage, etc., as long as the minority is not tyrannized in cases where the application of Sharia is not harmful to the society as a whole.

 

I also think that where Muslim actions are an affront to Hindu sensibilities, such as slaughter houses in the proximity of temples, some law should be passed.

 

The trouble is really more that the rule of law is very weak in India, with corruption and mob rule being the more customary appliers of judgment than regular procedure. Increasing mob rule will not solve the problem.

 

Jagat

 

 

I almost completely agree. I dont even think that the muslims are more blameworthy. It is due to ignorance that both are acting in most cases. The only problem is that ignorance of a Hindu leads him to foolish tolerance and loss of personal growth. The ignorance of a muslim (knowledge of Islam in other words) leads him to foolish intolerance and loss of not only personal growth but also destruction of others personal growth. The solution is to expose the folly of Islam.

[Guest guest]

I accept Srila Prabhupadas vision.

He accepted Islam,as well as other religions.

This is the proper attitude.

Otherwise all you do is incite hate.

If the muslim hears you disrespect his faith,without philosophical discourse involved in a non belligerent manner,he will dismiss whatever you say.

Your words will have the opposite of the intended effect.

Srila Prabhupada never disrespected other religions,ever.

If you want to be sucessfull,like him,you must realize that he is the example for preaching Sanatana Dharma,can there be any doubt about his empowerment?

As far as law and order,unless you are able to actually affect the political process,Srila Prabhupadas example is the standard of excellence.

Self defense,is acceptable,violent aggression is best left to the law.

[karthik_v]

Shiva Prabhuji,

 

When his movement and life was threatened by the muslim rulers,he did not physically fight them,what did he do?

He enlightened them,gave them love.

 

It seems that such enlightenment was quite short-lived, as Rupa and Sanatana Goswami had to literally flee to join Mahaprabhu

 

[abhi_the_great]

When his movement and life was threatened by the muslim rulers,he did not physically fight them,what did he do?

He enlightened them,gave them love.

 

There is no point being averse to fighting if the circumstance so demands. There is also no reason to fight if peaceful means work. But Islam(in its present form) and peace usually do not co-exist.

 

I feel that a new improved version of the Quran shd solve the problems.

[Guest guest]

So how did Mahaprabhu enlighten them,you say?

The muslim ruler had a dream and was visited by Narasmghadev,a message was delivered to him by the aforementioned diety,in a quite unpleasent manner.

afterwards,he was realizing the importance of mahaprabhu.

Best to deal with muslims with respect,they can be reasoned with,only if you show respect.

Criminals,of any faith,are another matter,and that is best left to the police.

 

[abhi_the_great]

There is no reason to deal disrespectfuly to anyone, if he is decent and deals respectfuly to us. I did not mean to go on rampage challenging every muslims one meets.

 

If we can convince them thru Mahaprabhu's method we shall. If not, we shall use other practical methods which are bonafide. We need not be too sentimental. We have no shame in calling mayavadis as rascals and fools, but we are getting(acting??) over compassionate when we really see a 1st class rascal.

 

I am not interested in an overdose of philosophy, without practical application. I prefer to preach what I can practice and at the same time concurrent to shastra.

 

As leyh previously said, it is not a practical idea to kill all muslims. I feel this is true. The stress here is only on self defence and preventing the society from being attacked by blood thirsty animals.

 

Akin to RSS in India, there shd be a Kshatriya grp in ISKCON and gaudiya maths. When there arises an opportunity, they shd act swiftly to defend the devotees of Hari.

 

I do not think this is a very revelutionary line of thought. Its normal commonsense.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Abhi the great:

We need not be too sentimental. We have no shame in calling mayavadis as rascals and fools, but we are getting(acting??) over compassionate when we really see a 1st class rascal.

LOL. That is easy to explain. Advaitins like the followers of Kanchi Sankara mutt are deeply religious people, often well versed in shastras and not given to quarelling. And they are a minority. We can be sure that they will not retaliate, if we call them rascals. It is a different story with Muslims and to some extent Christians.

 

Also, if you are preaching in a Christian nation, does it make sense to criticize Christianity? For that reason Islam, if you are in a Moslem nation? But it makes "great sense" to abuse the "evil" advatins, whom no one has seen, heard of or read about.

 

Why am I getting reminded of the missionary and Dravidian parties' tactics of abusing the Brahmins in Tamilnadu, India so that they could gain a foothold? Must be the ill effect of occasionally reading mayavadis