More Shiva and Vishnu Discussion

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by sha:

Rama worships Shiva and Shiva WORSHIPS Rama. Tulasi says that<u> Shiva is AT ONCE the servant, the friend, and the Lord of Rama.</u> It ONLY means that the<u> two are one</u> with different forms; this is possible in Acintya-bheda-abheda.

[Pita das]

In Bhakti Rasa Amrita Sindu The Nectar of Devotion of Srila Prabhupada Rupa Goswami

the perecentages of the qualites of Lord Shiva are given in comparisoin to Lord Krishna .

I do not have the N.O.D. here with me to refer to but I seem to remenber them to be 75%.

Lord Shiva is in a speical position and is a creation of the Lord He is Maha Deva meaning he is deva a termenously powerful one the greatest of all Devas.

He is greatest because he is the controller of material energy in the form of his eternal consort Parvati.

He is also transendental to this material world with his abode even beyound the Brahmananda spiritual effulegenced place in between the Vaikunta Planets.

In Chaitanya Bhagavat there are many instances where Lord Chaitanya reveals His effection to Lord Shiva

Once where He sees a Shavite mendicant and rides on his back declaring I am Mahadeva I am Mahadeva.

Lord Chaitanya also reveals that Bunaneswar in Orrisa as being given as a speical place of worship for Lord Shiva

 

[Guest guest]

Lord Shiva should not be confused as demigod.

 

 

But he is declared a demigod in all vaishnava literatures incl. Srila Prabhupada's.

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

Lord Shiva should not be confused as demigod.

 

 

But he is declared a demigod in all vaishnava literatures incl. Srila Prabhupada's.

Of course he is a "demigod", or "deva". Nevertheless, he is special among them.

 

The difference to the other demigods is that he is not jiva-tattva, but a transformed form of Lord Vishnu, which is in connection with matter. I'll be posting more in this regard sometime later from the Madhurya Kadambini of Visvanatha & commentaries.

 

kSIraM yathA dadhi vikAra-vizeSa-yogAt

saJjAyate na hi tataH pRthag asti hetoH

yaH zambhutAm api tathA samupaiti kAryAd

govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi

 

Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

 

(Sri Brahma Samhita, 5.45)

[raga]

The commentary of Bhaktivinoda on the abovementioned verse:<blockquote><font face="Georgia" color=brown>Sambhu is not a second Godhead other than Krsna. Those, who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of Sambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. This personality has no independent initiative. The said adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is Sadasiva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested.

 

In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, Govinda manifests Himself as guna-avatara in the form of Sambhu who is the separated portion of Govinda imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion. The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with that of Sambhu by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the Bhagavata slokas, viz., vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh, etc., is that Sambhu, in pursuance of the will of Govinda, works in union with his consort Durgadevi by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra-sastras, etc., suitable for jivas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (Mayavada) and the speculative agama-sastras. The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in Sambhu and five additional attributes not attainable by jivas are also partly found in him. So Sambhu cannot be called a jiva. He is the lord of jiva but yet partakes of the nature of a separated portion of Govinda.</font></blockquote>I hope that makes it clear.

 

The five special qualities mentioned above are: (1) He is always situated in His original position; (2) He is omniscient; (3) He is ever-fresh (not subject to the influence of time); (4) He is eternally blissful; (5) He is the master of all perfections.

 

[shvu]

 

Lord Shiva should not be confused as demigod.

 

But he is declared a demigod in all vaishnava literatures incl. Srila Prabhupada's.

Yes, just like Vishnu is a demi-god in Shaiva literature.

 

Cheers

 

[sha]

Originally posted by sha:

Here is more to back up this statement regarding the worship of Bhagavan Shankar:

 

1. Puranas have described that the consort of Lord Vishnu, Lakshmi devi herself worshipped Lord Shiva, even offering her own bosom in place of lotus flowers, and thus the 'bael' fruit and tree had become very dear to Shiva.

 

2. Lord Rama also worshipped Shiva at Ramesvara and saints wrote that he too offered his lotus eyes to Shiva as a substitute for lotus flowers.

 

3. Mother Sitadevi worshipped the consort of Lord Shiva, Gauridevi and Shiva before the 'bow breaking' at her 'Swayamvara'.

 

4. Queen Rukmini worshipped Gauridevi, the consort (Svarupa shakti) of Lord Shiva prior to Lord Krishna's arrival at her wedding.

 

5. So did the Gopis of Vraja at Katyayani (Consort of Lord Shiva) Vrata.

 

6. Lord Caitanya had also met his consort Lakshmipriya devi and other maiden performing worship to Lord Shiva on the banks of Ganges and blessed them accordingly proving the oneness of their Lordships.

 

7. Saint Vidyapati also wrote in his poems that Sri Radha herself prayed to Lord Shiva for protection from the 'cupid' and for blessings offering her lotus hands and bosom as a substitute for flowers and fruits.

 

8. In 'Vidagdhamadhavam', Sri Roopa wrote Radhaji going to Gauridevi (consort of Lord Shiva) temple for worship.

 

9. In his "Hamsa Duta' kavya, Roopa goswami wrote Radha Herself worshipping Lord Shiva and praying for Her Beloved's return to Vraja.

 

10. The favorite saint of Mahaprabhu, Jayadeva kaviraja himself prayed to Lord Shiva in 'mangalacarana' of his compositions.

 

Worship of Lord Shiva is a<big> 'bhushana' </big>for all Vaishnavas, so let us not indulge in<big> 'dushana'</big> of Lord Shiva.

I have to add more to the list of the great Divine personalities (and vaishnavas) who worshipped Lord Shiva.

 

<font color="red">11. Arjuna was advised by Lord Krishna Himself to do penance and worship to Lord Shiva to obtain 'Paashupatyaastram' which alone was able to win his powerful rival in Mahabharata war.</font>

 

12. The Rasik Saint Bilva Mangala thakur, whose Sri Krishna Karmritam was enjoyed by Gauranga Mahaprabhu stated that after all he was a Shaivaite from birth but Lord Krishna had stolen his heart!

 

<font color="red">zaivAvayam na khalu tatra vicAraNIyam

paGcAkSarI japa parAn itarAM tadhApi

ceto madIya matasI kusumAvabhAsaM

smerAnanam smarati gopa vadhU kizoraM</font>

 

(SKK 2. 24)

 

Meaning -

 

<font color="blue">I have always belonged to the 'Shaiva Sect' and I have been sincerely CHANTING the "Shiva Pancaakshari Mantra" - "Om Namah Shivaaya" all along.

 

But I have NO IDEA WHY this Young Sweetheart of Gopis is following me and my heart is also enjoying the REMEMBERENCE of His Smiling, Beautiful Blue face!!! "

 

 

13. Sri Kedaara naath Bhakti Vinoda parents were worshippers of (so called demigod) Lord Shiva and the 'name', i.e. 'Kedaara Naath' given to this swami was a well known epithet of Lord Shiva.

<font color="white"><small>

 

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-15-2002).]

[raga]

12. The Rasik Saint Bilva Mangala thakur, whose Sri Krishna Karmritam was enjoyed by Gauranga Mahaprabhu stated that after all he was a Shaivaite from birth but Lord Krishna had stolen his heart!

It is uncertain though whether the second and third sets of verses in KK are actually Bilvamangala's work.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by raga:

The commentary of Bhaktivinoda on the abovementioned verse:<blockquote><font face="Georgia" color=brown>Sambhu is not a second Godhead other than Krsna. Those, who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of Sambhu is subservient to that of Govinda; hence they are not really different from each other. The nondistinction is established by the fact that just as milk treated with acid turns into curd so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. This personality has no independent initiative. The said adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is Sadasiva, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god Sambhu from whom Rudradeva is manifested..

How can the Supreme be adulterated ? Also, if Shiva has been adulterated with the srtupefying quality of the deluding energy, then and has no special iniative, then why worship Shiva ? Does muyanti yat sUrayah apply to Shiva also ? This adulterating principle may be the cause of this delusion.

srI vaishnavAs consider shivA as nothing more than a post.

Originally posted by raga:

In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, Govinda manifests Himself as guna-avatara in the form of Sambhu who is the separated portion of Govinda imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion. The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with that of Sambhu by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the Bhagavata slokas, viz., vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh, etc., is that Sambhu, in pursuance of the will of Govinda, works in union with his consort Durgadevi by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra-sastras, etc., suitable for jivas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (Mayavada) and the speculative agama-sastras. .

Even hearing mAyavAda commentary is the cause of all destruction. How is this helpful in maintaining devotion ? Why are Agama sAstrAs speculative ? The mAyAvAdis claim it is based on vEdAs. Even srI vaishnavAs think it is bonafide.

 

Originally posted by raga:

 

The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in Sambhu and five additional attributes not attainable by jivas are also partly found in him. So Sambhu cannot be called a jiva. He is the lord of jiva but yet partakes of the nature of a separated portion of Govinda.</font></blockquote>I hope that makes it clear.

 

The five special qualities mentioned above are: (1) He is always situated in His original position; (2) He is omniscient; (3) He is ever-fresh (not subject to the influence of time); (4) He is eternally blissful; (5) He is the master of all perfections.

In SB, I remember a verse in the Mohini adhyAyam, where shivA agrees that he comes under illusion. How then is the first point valid.

 

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree with raga's interpretation of Bhaktivinode.

 

He(Bhaktivinode) says that Shiva is a combination of the deluding potency, meaning he is subject to the control of Maya,that he is also part of the marginal potecy, or that he is part jiva,

And a slight degree of the ecstatic cum cognitave,meaning he is not omniscient yet definately more aware then the ordinary jiva.

Furthur he states that Shiva has no independence and is not another Godhead,that he is like Govinda yet is not Govinda.

 

Shiva is not an expansion of god like Rama,or Narayan,He is also not like the expansion of God like the jiva.

He is different from the jiva in that he has partial divine cognitave and ecstatic qualities,and is a partial avatar of Govinda ,similar to the shaktyavesha avatar.

 

His abode is a transcendental place and not understood by the conditioned souls with limited understanding.

 

Basically what this all means is that Shiva is an empowered Jiva,and not God.

Like Sridhara Maharaja says, there are many Shiva entities,having entered into that position due to their being free from material consciousness and being fully aware of transcendental reality.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by shiva (edited 06-15-2002).]

[raga]

How can the Supreme be adulterated ? Also, if Shiva has been adulterated with the srtupefying quality of the deluding energy, then and has no special iniative, then why worship Shiva ? Does muyanti yat sUrayah apply to Shiva also ? This adulterating principle may be the cause of this delusion.

If He wishes, He may transform Himself as He likes.

 

The point has already been made that we worship Shiva due to his position of being a Vaishnava, not due to his position in relation with the creation.

 

 

srI vaishnavAs consider shivA as nothing more than a post.

There are nine rudras expanding from Shambu, and a qualified living entity may take such a post. The original Shiva is not a post.

 

 

Even hearing mAyavAda commentary is the cause of all destruction. How is this helpful in maintaining devotion ? Why are Agama sAstrAs speculative ? The mAyAvAdis claim it is based on vEdAs. Even srI vaishnavAs think it is bonafide.

Who ever proposed that it would be helpful in maintaining devotion?

 

There are agama shastras under different modes of nature. Some of the Saiva-agamas are "speculative" in the sense that they present conclusions opposed to genuine siddhanta.

 

 

In SB, I remember a verse in the Mohini adhyAyam, where shivA agrees that he comes under illusion. How then is the first point valid.

This is a pastime with Vishnu.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 06-15-2002).]

[raga]

I have to disagree with raga's interpretation of Bhaktivinode.

Disagree all you like, but I did not offer any interpretation.

 

The fifty plus five qualities are explained in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu, if that is what you meant. Bhaktivinoda makes an obvious reference to them. Beyond that, I did not write anything.

 

[raga]

Visvanatha Cakravarti explains the position of Shiva in the Madhurya Kadambini (third shower) in context to the second nama-aparadha, which is as follows:

 

zivasya zri-viSNor ya iha guNa-nAmAdi-sakalaM dhiyA bhinnaM pazyet sa khalu harinAmAhita-karaH. (Padma Purana)

 

If one considers the name, qualities, and such of Mahadeva and Vishnu to be separated from each other, then it is an offense. In other words, if one considers Shiva as an independent Lord perfected by a specific energy and Vishnu as an independent Lord, then the controversy of many independent Lords arises and hampers the exclusive devotion to Sri Hari. One should therefore understand that Krishna is the Lord of all lords. Shiva is empowered as a Lord by the energy of Krishna, but he has no independent energy.

 

Visvanatha:

<blockquote><font color=red>Caitanya, or conscious beings, are of two types: independent and dependent. The first, independent isvara-caitanya, is the all-pervading Lord. The second is the dependent jiva-caitanya who pervades only the own body and is a particular energy of the Lord controlled by Him. Isvara-caitanya is again of two types: free from the touch of maya, and accepting the touch of maya by His own wish. Isvara-caitanya free from the touch of maya is known by such names as Narayana. Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.88.5) says, “Sri Hari exists beyond the three modes of material nature and is completely transcendental. Therefore, He himself is the Supreme transcendental personality.”

 

The second isvara-caitanya accepts the touch of maya by His own will and is known as Siva and so on. Sastras say, “Siva is always associated with maya and is the predominating deity of vaikarika (sattvika), taijasa (rajasika) and tamasa, three types of ego. He is covered by three gunas, sattva, rajas, and tamas. One should not think of Siva as a jiva, though he is covered by three gunas. Because Brahma-samhita (5.45) says, “As milk is transformed into yoghurt, yet yoghurt is not different from milk, its cause, I worship the Primeval Lord, Govinda, who similarly accepts the form of Siva by his own will for the particular purpose of destruction.”

 

Due to the similarity of caitanya, Visnu and Siva are non-different. Devotees desiring nothing other than the Lord must discriminate between Visnu and Siva as worshipable or non-worshipable on the basis of nirguna and saguna character. Due to the non-similarity of caitanya, Visnu and Brahmd are different. Sometimes Puranas describe the nondifference of Viivu and Brahma. This nondifference may be considered like that of the sun and the suryakanta-mani, the stone empowered by the sunlight. In some mahakalpas, like Brahma-kalpa, some jiva becomes empowered by the Lord becomes Siva. Sastras say, “Sometimes a jiva is also empowered as Siva or Brahma.” sastra also says, “One who considers Lord Narayana, the Supreme among demigods, as equal to Brahma, Rudra, and other demigods is certainly an atheist.” This sastric evidence will be considered proper when Siva and Brahma are both in the category of eminent jivas.

 

Those who have not discussed these truths say, “Visnu is the only Lord, not Siva”, “Siva is the only Lord, not Visnu.” “We are the sole devotees of Visnu and will not see Siva.” "We are the sole devotees of Siva and will not see Visnu.” Their minds thus absorbed in arguments, they commit offense. If in time, such offenders get the association of sadhus expert in discussing all these truths and are enlightened by them, they can also realize the nondifference of Siva and the Lord. Then by doing nama-kirtana, their aparadha is nullified.</font></blockquote>In conclusion, Shiva is not upasya-tattva as a separate Lord, but is worthy of our worship and respect in his capacity of a great Vaishnava.

 

[Guest guest]

Raga ,sorry,what I meant was when you mentioned the five qualites at the end of your post,

you should have included that Shiva only has partial manifestations of those qualities.

 

Also for Rama,you ask how the supreme can be adultered?

That is also our position,we are in fact adulterations of the supreme,we are part of the supreme yet different from the supreme,we are the consciousness of the supreme made into seperate identities,we are adulterations of God,like Shiva.

 

Shiva is different because he has been empowered by Govinda and is therfore a type of avatar ,a guna avatar,guna means quality,Shiva has the quality of Govinda yet he is not Govinda,he is not God,he is empowered as the qualitative avatar of Govinda.

His position is unique ,in between the jiva and Vishnu,he is not God,nor fully jiva,

although he is like the jiva because he is not independent,he is subject to delusion,and the control of god.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by shiva (edited 06-15-2002).]

[Guest guest]

Raga said : Who ever proposed that it would be helpful in maintaining destruction?

 

Raga, thanks for answering the other questions. But this question you misunderstood. My question is

 

Even hearing mAyavAda commentary is the cause of all destruction. How is this helpful in maintaining devotion ? This is on Bhakti Vinod Thakur's purport mentioned by you as follows :

 

In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (Mayavada)

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 06-15-2002).]

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by raga:

This is a pastime with Vishnu.

 

 

 

This was in relation to Lord Shiva's delusion in Mohini Avatara. The Lord never comes under illusion. But, Shiva gets illusioned, right ?

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by viji_53:

Lord Vishnu is the Ultimate God. He has no birth or death. He takes avatar to protect His devotees. Every time He takes avatar the evil doers also get punished. All other gods have end where as Vishnu has no end. He is eternal. By performing yagjas we can attain other gods' position. Also the Nirguna of lord Vishnu shows He is the ultimate God. Shiva has Anger; that is why He is called Rudra. Brahma has pride. only Vishnu is beyond all the gunas.

Oh. It is interesting to hear that Shiva gets angry. But who care about his anger ? Lord Krishna is there to protect us, right ?

 

But is this the position of the Vedas ? As I have not seen Lord Shiva or Vishnu, I can only understand them through sAstrAs. Please forgive my lack of devotion and ignorance.

 

 

[raga]

Raga said : Who ever proposed that it would be helpful in maintaining destruction?

Raga, thanks for answering the other questions. But this question you misunderstood. My question is

 

Even hearing mAyavAda commentary is the cause of all destruction. How is this helpful in maintaining devotion ? This is on Bhakti Vinod Thakur's purport mentioned by you as follows :

 

In obedience to the will of Govinda, Sambhu maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (Mayavada)

Excuse me, that was a typo. Of course I meant, "Who ever proposed that it would be helpful in maintaining devotion?".

 

 

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

This was in relation to Lord Shiva's delusion in Mohini Avatara. The Lord never comes under illusion. But, Shiva gets illusioned, right ?

Well... He also has His share of illusion in Braj, but this is completely different.

 

Shiva got illusioned with Mohini. Otherwise, I've never heard that he would get illusioned.

 

[Pita das]

Lord Shiva is not under the material engery Maya He is Dira always deep in mediation.

When Srila Sridhar Maharaja refers to many Shiva his reference must be that in each Universe Lord Shiva appear the is only one Lord Shiva and one Goddress Parvati and from Kailash they expand and enter each Universe To serve Lord Govinda.

Lord Shiva is not affected by the mode of Tamas he resides over it and this in itself places him into a different tatva of his own.

When Krishnas take up his Chakra this is not Krishna He becomes Naranya.

 

 

[sha]

Originally posted by raga:

<font color=red>Shri Mahadeva protects the Holy Dham of Braja, and every wise pilgrim must go to offer his respect and homage unto him.

 

Shri Mahadeva presides in Vraja as Gopishvara in Vrindavan, Bhuteshvara in Mathura, Nandishvara at Nandagrama, Kameshvara at Kamyavana, Cakaleshvara at Govardhan and Kundeshvara at Radha Kund.

 

Prior to parikrama of Radha Kund we offer our respects to Kundeshvara Mahadeva, and prior to entering Vamsi Vat we pray for the blessing of Gopishvara Mahadeva, who guards the arena of the sacred circle dance.

 

Every Vaishnava in the Holy Dham prays for the kind blessing of Shri Mahadeva.

 

Visvanatha writes in his Sankalpa Kalpadruma (103):</font><font color=blue><blockquote><big>vRndAvanavani-pate! jaya soma soma-maule

sanaka-sanandana-sanAtana-nAradeDya

gopIzvara! vraja-vilAsi-yugAGghri-padme

prema prayaccha nirupAdhi namo namaste

 

<big>"O gatekeeper of Vrindavana!</big>

 

O Soma, all glories to you!

O you whose forehead is decorated with the moon, and

who is worshipable for the sages headed by Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana and Narada!

 

<big>O Gopisvara! Desiring that you bestow upon me prema for the lotus feet of Shri Shri Radha-Madhava who perform joyous pastimes in Vraja-dhama, I offer pranamas unto you time and again!"</big>

All those who are averse to Lord Shiva, the Gopiswara will never enter the Divine Vrajadhama. They will be (rerouted) sent to Vishnu's abode, Vaikuntha or Dwaraka.

So devotees who want to associate Radha-Krishna must worship Lord Shiva as Gopiswara.

 

Only ignorant, unrealized fool claims that Gopi is a demigod.

How can demigods have even access into Goloka Vrindavana, the Divine abode?

 

Gopis are direct expansions of Radharani and it is explained by Ramanandaraya's talks with Mahaprabhu.

 

Another point, Vishnu couldnot become Gopiswara nor he could enter Vrindavana nor participated in Maharasa lila.

 

His consort Mahalakshmi too was not granted entrance into Maha Rasa lila of the Gopis and Radha-Krishna.

 

Even though she did penance for thousands of years, she could only receive the status of queen Rukmini of Dwaraka.

 

Of course devotees have a choice to go to Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.

 

Just as no one can enter the door of Lord Rama without the permission of Hanumanji, no one can enter the Divine Vrindavan without the permission of the<big> Divine Dhama's door-keeper, Gopiswara Bhagavan Shankar.</big>

So the devotees should think twice about creating their sanskaras of blasphemy and its consequent effects on their devotion.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

We should keep in mind that Lord Shiva and his expansions, such as the Rudras, etc., are in many ways different. Thus an activity performed by one of his lower level expansions is not a disqualification on his part.

 

[raga]

Sha Ji makes the point clear by increasing the point size.

 

<marquee direction="right"><font color=red face="Georgia" style="font-size=100px">Shri

Gopishwar

Mahadev<font color=blue>

Ki Jai!</marquee></font><font face="Verdana" size="2">

 

Are you convinced, or need I make it bigger?

[Pita das]

In Shree Chaitanya Caritamritya we see that Shree Adwaita Arcaya is mentioned to be

the incarnation of Maha Vishnu.

In Chaitanya Bhagavat Shree Adwaita is mentioned to be SadaShiva.

My question to the assebled devottees is can any one show me stratic defination of 'SadaShiva ?

He would seem to me not the same as Lord Shiva

Thank you

[raga]

Originally posted by Pita das:

In Shree Chaitanya Caritamritya we see that Shree Adwaita Arcaya is mentioned to be

the incarnation of Maha Vishnu.

In Chaitanya Bhagavat Shree Adwaita is mentioned to be SadaShiva.

My question to the assebled devottees is can any one show me stratic defination of 'SadaShiva ?

He would seem to me not the same as Lord Shiva

Thank you

Sadashiva is the original form of Shiva.

 

Rupa Gosvami explains in his Laghu Bhagavatamrita:

<blockquote><font color=red>26 Siva -- Siva appears in eleven forms and eight forms. Generally he has ten arms and five heads, with three eyes on each head.

 

27 The scriptures explain that, as Brahma is, so Siva is sometimes a jiva soul and sometimes an amsa-avatara like Lord Sesa.

 

28 Because He is an incarnation of the Personality of Godhead, He is generally beyond the modes of material nature. However, because he is touched by the mode of ignorance, He is thought to be affected by it. This is described in Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.88.3):

 

"Lord Siva is always associated with the three modes of nature."

 

29 He is described in Brahma-samhita (5.45):

 

"Just as milk is transformed into curd by the actions of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither the same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Sambu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction."

 

30 Sometimes He is born from Brahma's forehead and other times from Visnu's forehead. At the kalpa's end He is born from Lord Sankarsana as the fire of time.

 

31 Siva's form named Sadasiva, who is a direct expansion of the Personality of Godhead, is the cause of all causes, is free from the slightest scent of the mode of ignorance, and resides in Sivaloka, is described in the Vayu Purana and other scriptures.

 

32 He, is the original form of Lord Siva, is described in Brahma-samhita (5.8):

 

"Rama-devi, the spiritual (cit) potency, beloved consort of the Supreme Lord, is the regulatrix of all entities. The divine plenary portion of Krsna creates the mundane world. At creation there appears a divine halo of the nature of His own subjective portion (svamsa). This halo is divine Sambhu (Sadasiva), the masculine symbol or manifested emblem of the Supreme Lord. This halo is the dim twilight reflection of the supreme eternal effulgence. This masculine symbol is the subjective portion of divinity who functions as progenitor of the mundane world, subject to the supreme regulatrix (niyati). The conceiving potency in regard to mundane creation makes her appearance out of the supreme regulatrix. She is Maya, the limited, non-absolute (apara) potency, the symbol of mundane feminine productivity. The intercourse of these two brings forth the faculty of perverted cognition, the reflection of the seed of the procreative desire of the Supreme Lord."</blockquote>