Bhakti-yoga in the Age of Kali

[melvin]

It`s only devotional service to the Supreme

Lord Krishna or Bhakti-yoga can counter the

effects of Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel and

hypocrisy." Mukti or liberation from the il-

lusory effects of maya is not the answer,

but Bhakti," a statement coming from Sarba-

bhauma Bhattacarya himself, a famous scholar

of Sankaracarya`s mayavada school. He was

convinced that Bhakti not Mukti is the solu-

tion to the problems created by the goddess

Kali. Mayavadi Bhattacarya`s conversion in

embracing Bhakti instead of Mukti was the

handiwork of Lord Krishna Chaitanya Mahapra-

bhu, the greatest teacher of Bhakti-yoga.

I therefore offer my respectful obeisances

to Nimai Pandita, the Supreme Guru.

 

[shvu]

Hi,

 

There can be no Bhakti without having a goal in mind. That goal is Mukthi. The statement "Bhakti, not Mukthi...." does not hold good.

 

People are attracted to Bhakti, only because of all the promises offered at the end of it.

 

Sorry Melvin, but even you or for that matter, anone else, would never bother about Bhakti or Chaitanya, if there was not a promise at the end of it all.

 

 

[shvu]

 

People would do good, if they do not accept statements made by scholars as gospel.

 

" Mukti or liberation from the il-

lusory effects of maya is not the answer,

but Bhakti," - Sarbabhauma Bhattacarya

 

I think this is an absurd statement. And how is Bhakti supposed to be the answer ? He would not have explained that

 

You see, it is all marketing. " My system, my ideas, my philosophy is the right one. That is the only way out...".

[shvu]

Hello JayaShriRadheyji,

 

You have said "When Bhakti is not fully matured and purified..." the person will still retain selfish desires or aspirations, which is true.

 

"but in "parA bhakti", inpure transcendental state of Bhakti-Divine Love, all the selfish desires are destroyed...". Selfish desires are destroyed when the self is destroyed. As long as the self is there, all actions are selfish. That is how all life is made. I am sure, you agree with me, here.

 

So when there is no self, there is nothing, including the Lord, love and everything. The person is liberated.

 

"The total surrender of oneself with unconditional Love to Lord is Bhakti." As long as the self is there, unconditional love is not possible. And when the self is gone, there is nothing. So unconditional love can never be there. Who is there to love and to be loved?

 

You are perfectly right, that there has to be some existence to enjoy happiness.

 

"pure devotees are already liberated,since they are ever in Divine Ecstasy." That is contradicting again, because if the devotee is liberated, then there is no ecstasy.

 

The Upanishads declare liberation as the highest and the only goal to be achieved by man. That is what will free him from the cycle of Karma.

 

If I am ecstatic over worshipping forms, how permanent is it ? The person is still subject to pain, and rebirth and so on. As long as there is an experiencer, however joyous, it is only a pleasure movement. One person feels great when he sees a girl, another feels happy when he sees an image of Krishna. What is the difference ? They are exactly the same.

 

Krishna has advised on worshipping forms, because it is diffcult for the mind to focus on a formless power. S worshipping forms is only a means to an end, which is Mukthi.

 

My point is, the whole objective of Bhakti, is to attain Mukthi.

 

"But those renouncing in me all actions, intent on me with undistracted union, who meditate upon, and worship me, I soon become their deliverer from the ocean of the death cycle, Partha, whose consciousness has entered into me." - The Gita

 

Since Melvin quoted some guy who has said "Bhakti, not Mukthi...", I felt compelled to point it out.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Dear Shvu,

 

One question you should ask yourself is if you have a proper concept of what mukti is?

 

The definition is given in the scriptures and the Vedic dictionaries (nirukti). You may not accept the definition of the scriptures or of the Vedic dictionaries, but that is tuff, because this is the use of language. If the word mukti is used, it has a definition. Otherwise say it in Chinese, Spanish or English, to convey your own concept. Be original.

 

Mukti is defined as follows:

 

muktir hitvanyatha rupam

sva-rupena vyavasthitih

 

"To give up one's false external identification (material forms), and to be re-established in one's own constitutional spiritual form."

 

Mukti simply means to be who you actually are.

 

 

[janardana prabhu]

Before I was a personalist, I was an impersonalist, simply because that was the highest form of realization I had experienced. nervana, which seems to be the destruction of the self, really is not. It is the point of shared intelligence and ego. For a person that does not really understand the SELF this would seem to be a state of no soul. They are mixing up the soul with the energies that surround it. Only when I was introduced to KRSNA CONSCIOUNESS did I understand that the ture purpose of the SELF; To chant the HOLY NAMES OF HARE KRSNA AND RAMA! I PRAY THAT I WILL NEVER HAVE TO BE PUT INTO AN IMPERSONAL UNDERSTANDING AGAIN, YUK!

[melvin]

The Supreme Person( Krishna) is the creator

of the universe, who is Himself the form of

the universe and who nonetheless is trans-

cendental to this cosmic manifestations. He

is the Supreme Knower of everything in the

world, the Supersoul of the universe, the

Master of all mysticisms, who is seen from

the core of the heart by perfect yogis

when they are completely purified and freed

from the reactions of Karma by practicing

Bhakti-yoga.(S.B. 8.3.28)

As authoritatively stated in S.B. 12.13.1:

"...a yogi is one who always meditates on

the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, who in

Brahma-samhita 5.38 is the worshippable,

Sri Govinda, the primeval Lord, Syamasundara

Krishna Himself, possessing inconceivable

innumerable attributes whom the pure yogi

sees within their hearts of hearts as the

Yogesvara, eyes tinged with the ointment of

love and devotion.

The Supreme Person therefore and His

pure devotee are intimately related, like

father and son, between the spiritual mas-

ter and the servant, and between the teacher

and his student.

Unfortunately there are some students who

are attached to Lord Shiva`s philosophical

treaty on impersonalism, a yogic subject

meant only for those who are less-intelli-

gent, low E.Q students who are lured by

Lord Shiva`s most confidential instructress,

goddess Kali to take up her master`s course

because they seemed lazy to study, learn,

and read the 64 volumes of Srimad Bhagavatam

recommended by a student taking up Bhakti-

yoga himself, Srila Narada Muni. That pro-

gram on impersonalim designed by Lord Shiva

himself is hard for the mediocre students of

yoga to refuse, like taking a short-cut ins-

tead of following the long and winding road,

not knowing impersonalism is subject meant

for the blue-collared, but the wise student

who listens to the sound advice of a Bhakti

graduate like Mahajana Sukadeva Goswami is

not bewildered by the glaring effulgence of

impersonalism, Lord Shiva`s favorite topic.

Instead, the wise student of yoga would

obligedly, without much ado, enrols and

take up the course entitled, the science of

Krishna consciousness or Bhakti-yoga, whose

architectural design was planned by the

great professor of Bhakti-yoga himself, Lord

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Once the wise student

of yoga has been officially registered by

the Institute of Bhakti-yoga itself, he is

immediately ushered to the Brahman section,

a classroom especially constructed for yoga

students who are Self-realized.

" One who is transcendentally situated in

that platform at once realizes the Supreme

Brahman and becomes fully joyful( in study-

ing the science of God). He never laments

or desires to have anything( related to the

subject on impersonalism ). He is equally

disposed towards all living entities( all

yoga subjects). In that state, he attains

pure devotional service unto Me( in making

the subject of Bhakti, not Mukti more in-

teresting and challenging to the students

and the professor, Mr. Krishna Himself.

 

[shvu]

Hi All,

 

Sorry, I was not aware of the "impersonalism" issue. I had never heard that term before.

 

Melvin and most other people here, like the idea of the dual system, where there will always be a separate experiencer to experience God, ecstasy and so on.

 

Now I know what you people meant by "Bhakti not mukthi..."

[viji_53]

Hi Shivu

Love towardas a girl& Bhakthi towards Krishna are not the same. When there is love towards a girl there is lust in it. Where is in Bhakthi there is no lust. Even if you have desires in the beinning they will go away from your mind after you take religious path and progress in it. Taking religious path does not mean you have to renounce everything, go to a jungle and do tapa. Cultivate reciting God's name daily for few minutes in the beginning and slowly increase the time. In the age of Kaliyuga you can repeat the name of Hari where ever you are.When you think how beautiful nature is Or a girl is; think one moment how beautiful should be the creator; that will develope bhakthi in you. Thank God for all good things in your life; that will also develope bhakthi. Remember nobody gives you dhuk or suk ;it is your karma which is responsible for the life. In order to avoid mundane exisrence repeat the name of Hari. To repeat the name of Hari also you must have His grace. May God bless you!

[adreamgodus]

Om Shanti

 

As Devotees of God Absolute, no

matter the title or Path we take

to Truth, it is best to remember..

 

God is All. God is All. God is All.

 

It does not matter if God is called

Lord Krishna or Guru...what is

important is the nature of 'your'

Love.

 

Prema is devoid of cages-all features

of Maya.

 

Listen to the Song, Dear Hearts, and

worry not about the Singer...

 

"I have enjoyed direct and interrupted

knowledge [of] young men and women

who long for God from childhood for

God-realization and who do not rely

upon the conventional world for any

satisfaction are simply Divine Reality,

intensely manifested through the

exalted form.

 

They are God nakedly longing for

God, free from the veils of

separation and duality...

 

It is just God longing for God.

This is the supreme mystery-

the Divine Play as humanity,

the 'naralila', totally unveiled

and free from the slightest

state of duality...

 

Constantly and even desperately

I would used to question companions,

or anyone who would listen,

about why my love for this particular

young man had become so intense....

 

...from the standpoint of ancient scriptures,

...that someone of the plane of God-vision

..can not enjoy ordinary levels of

sensory mental consciousness without

being in the companionship of pure-hearted

loves of Truth, persons whose instincts have

been sanctified.

 

The Very sight of such true lovers

gives the one established in God-consciousness

a thrill of delight and allows for peacefulness

of spirit...

 

Sri Paramahamasa Ramakrishna

 

[page 83-84,

Great Swan,

Meeting with Ramakrishna

by Lex Hixon]

 

Om Shanti

[Guest guest]

 

when one is on the material plane he may desire freedom from suffering or liberation from pain.

 

That is another understanding of liberation,freedom from

material misery,freedom from death,disease, etc.

 

Mukti though has a deeper meaning,as pointed out earlier it means to become self realized,conscious of our eternal

self.

 

higher then mukti is bhakti,it is not only the means

but also the end.

 

what is bhakti ?

bhakti is about giving oneself to another.

As one lover gives unconditionally to the beloved

without consideration of reward,giving for the sake and pleasure of the beloved,that is bhakti.

 

In the constitutional position of the soul the realtionship one has with God is no longer seperated by

ignorance of who or what we are and god is.

 

We engage in bhakti,loving reciprocation directly with the personality of God,direct interaction on a personl level,

face to face.

 

the process to attain that level of existence is bhakti,

by engaging in the relationship of giving to the beloved,

by engaging in the process of bhakti yoga

we become awakened to the highest level of consciousness.

 

We become emerged in the process of devotion,and the result is we become closer and closer to the object of our devotion.

 

[adreamgodus]

Om Shanti..

 

Thank you dear heart, for, the

lovely asasana on Mukti and it's

many aspects...

 

But, were we not saying the same

thing?

 

I am lost, please exlpain further

so that this mind may understand

more.

 

I love how much we care and love

and hope that each ray of light

finds its merry way home.

 

your sister in spirit,

shikha