Jahnava Nitai Das Posted November 1, 2000 Report Share Posted November 1, 2000 I am not trying to establish anything in this message, but I am just mentioning a verse based on which some people conclude that Krishna is the original form of the Lord. Whether we think Krishna is the original, or Narayana is the original is not so important. At least we can all agree that the vishnu-tattva is supreme. The Srimad Bhagavatam states: ete camsha-kalah pumsah krishnas tu bhagavan svayam indrari-vyakulam lokam mridayanti yuge yuge "All of the above mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Sri Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets when there is a disturbance created by the demons. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists in different ages." Basically this verse says the 24 categorical incarnations mentioned in the preceding texts are either amsha or kala, whereas Krishna is not a amsha or kala but svayam bhagavan, or the Lord's own original form. Amsha and kala are highly technical words in this regard and can't be fully understood literally. But regardless, the literal meaning at least gives us some general concept of what is being conveyed. The words "portion" and "part" may be used, but the technical meaning is quite different. The fact the word "tu" (but) is used clearly indicates Krishna is something distinct from the other incarnations. The relevant rough translation is, "These incarnations are parts and portions of God, _but_ Krishna is svayam bhagavan, or God's own form." Again I say the words used in this text are technical words and cannot be translated so simply. Acharyas have written whole books explaining what is an amsha, what is a kalah, etc. There are many other texts that establish Krishna as the source of all incarnations, including the Maha Vishnu, but that is not my aim here. I am just indicating there are schools of Vaishnavism who accept Krishna as the original form, and they use verses like the one above to substantiate their claims. The Lord's incarnations manifest necessary potency according to the circumstances. In your house you may be using a 40 watt light bulb, but we shouldn't foolishly think the power house only possesses 40 watts of power. The same unlimited power house can run huge machineries as well. According to the necessity the power is deployed. According to some, Lord Krishna's form displays the Godhead's full potency perfectly, whereas some other of His forms display his potency in various degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viji_53 Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 Lord Narayana took 10 main avatars. Of this Rama & Krishna avatars are called as paripurna avatars. Because God has taken the human form to show how to live & what to follow. Act like Rama & do what Krishna said. We are fortunate to get this human body; we are fortunate to think & differentiate, which other animals can not do. Even after obtaining the human body if we do not realize God it looks like exchanging diamond for glass. Let us stop arguing whether Krishna is the original form or not. Let each individual choose his form & worship. The main purpose of worship loses its value if harsh words are used while arguing. God is One. Let Him be Narayana, Rama or Krishna or Hari. He is the Supreme Reality. He is the shelter, storehouse , beginning middle & end, welwisher etc. Hari Bhol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animesh Posted November 2, 2000 Report Share Posted November 2, 2000 I firmly believe that all form of the Supreme God are equally worshipable. It is perfectly correct to call Krishna as Supreme God. But then it is also perfectly correct to call Rama as Supreme God (personally, I am very inspired by the life of Rama) or any other avatar or even Maha Vishnu, Garbhodakshayi Vishnu etc. The only difference is between their bodily forms. So, if we consider one form to be more superiour than others, then we are in a way treating God as just any other ordinary human being. That is definitely not what a true devotee should do. So, I feel that one should consider Supreme God as Supreme God in all his forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viji_53 Posted November 8, 2000 Report Share Posted November 8, 2000 The inspiring soma, the divine love, dispenses the six evils, lust, anger, greed, attachment, pride and jealousy, weakness from whom no one is exempt. Let the Blissful force of divine will awaken my inner spirit from sleep. The human body is the temple of GOD. One who kindles the light of awareness with in gets true light. By concentrating the mind the inner vision is illuminated. The joys of life are not for those who keep their mind unclean. The mysteries of life are revealed to one who keep his mind alert all the time. The sacred flame of our inner shrine is constantly bright and glowing. From Rig Veda Hari Bhol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggohil Posted November 13, 2000 Report Share Posted November 13, 2000 Jai Sri Krsna What is "Vishnu-tattva" Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viji_53 Posted November 14, 2000 Report Share Posted November 14, 2000 Dear ggohil, Sarvam Jagat Vishnumayam or Narayana Paramo Devata meaning Narayana is the Ultimate Supreme is Vishnu tatva. Narayana is eternal.Hari Ohm Tat Sat Hari Ohm. Krishna shows His viswaroopa(Big Form Of Vishnu or Narayana )in Duryodana's saba. He also shows this form to Kamsa & Karna before their death. Hari Bhol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted November 14, 2000 Report Share Posted November 14, 2000 Vishnu-Tattva : Tattva - (Principle, Doctrine) In the 12th Century, Madhvacharya established the Dvaita Tradition/System which is a dualistic system according to which the Jiva (Soul) is distinct from the Supreme Vishnu. The later Vaishnava traditions have their roots in this Madhva System. So Vishnu Tattva is the basic principle on which all these systems are based upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumeet Posted November 14, 2000 Report Share Posted November 14, 2000 Accept my obesiances unto your lotus feet. Hare Krishna!! Dear goghil Vishnu-Tattva actually means the status or category of God. Vishnu is Personality of God and any one whose PERSONALITY in principal or by nature is similar to God (Vishnu) actually belongs to the vishnu-tattva or status or category of being God. This is how the meaning of Vishnu-tattva is understood. As described in the verse BG 8.9 and BG 10.12-13 that is the nature of the Supreme Person(Vishnu, Krishna, Rama......) and He whose PERSONALITY is like this is actually belonging to Vishnu-tattva or Supreme Reality. For eg Lord Ramacandra is Supreme Personality of godhead so is Lord Krishna and so is any vishnu-murti. They all are parmesvara or Supreme Controller. Hope that this meets you well. With love Your Servant always OM TAT SAT Sumeet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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