Ganga and Saraswati

[animesh]

I thought of putting this post after reading a post by Sri Sumeet ji. The intention of this post is not to compare between goddesses Saraswati and Ganga. I just want to know about the mentioning of these two in vedas and puranas. I have read that our scriptures earlier talked about Saraswati. Later that place was taken by Ganga. Please post verses from vedas and upanishads which glorify these two rivers.

[shvu]

 

Dear Animesh,

 

The Saraswati dried up at some point. The Rig Veda describes Saraswati as a strong and mighty flowing river which supports several settlements. The Mahabharata talks about the Saraswati as a dying river [drying up in places]. Since then at some point, the Ganga started getting more importance.

 

I will see if I can find verses to support this transition

 

Cheers

[Avinash]

Dear Karthik,

You were mentioning something about the river saraswati in some other thread. Could you please write whatever you know about this river in this thread?

[jijaji]

http://www.panasia.org.sg/sarasvati/1home.html

 

http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/sitemap1.htm

 

jijaji

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 01-22-2002).]

[jijaji]

From THE HINDU, Saturday, August 29, 1998

Section:FROM THE STATES

 

_

 

Bringing the ‘lost’ Saraswati back to life

 

Interview with Dr. Naresh K. Gupta

 

By Sarabjit Pandher

 

CHANDIGARH, August 28,

 

Unlike their normal behaviour , scholars, historians, archaeologists, hydro-geologists and recent breed of experts on satellite imagery, are seriously involved in proving a mythological legend. This group of researchers, working separately in different parts of the world, are bent upon bringing the mythical river Saraswati into the realm of reality and pave the way to push back the history of civilisation in the Indian sub-continent by a few thousand years.

 

Based on the evidence provided by hydro-geological and archaeological studies, scientists are convinced that the mythological river – named after the Goddess Saraswati – was actually a major source of sustaining civilisation in this part of the subcontinent till 2000 to 1500 B.C. However, they argue that contrary to the belief that the Saraswati flowed eastwards to form a confluence with rivers Ganga and Yamuna at Allahabad, it actually crossed the plains westwards to fall in the Arabian Sea after forming a confluence with the Yamuna and Sutlej.

 

It is now being said that Saraswati originated from the "Har-ki-dhun" glacier in West Garhwal along with river Yamuna. The two rivers flowed parallel and joined to flow westwards, with more rivulets and seasonal rivers joining the flow. Saraswati then followed the course of the present Ghaggar, which flows along the inter-state border of Punjab and Haryana. The Sutlej (referred to as Shatdru in the Vedas) joined Saraswati as a tributary near the present township of Shatrana about 25 km south of Patiala city.

 

After assuming a massive size, Saraswati followed the course of Ghaggar in Rajasthan, Hakra in Bhawalpur (now in Pakistan) and emptied via the bed of Nara in Sindh, into the Arabian Sea through the Rann of Kutch, they believe.

 

As regards the Indus Valley civilisation, archaeologists have discovered the existence of more settlements in India than in Pakistan. As the 1400 discovered sites were plotted on a map, it was found that the settlements were more concentrated along the Saraswati, which is now Ghaggar in India and Hakra and Nara in Pakistan. Scientists say that the chance discovery of the Harappa and Mohenjodaro sites along the Indus River in the 1920s, led Sir John Marshall to name the settlements as the Indus Valley civilisation. They advocate that it should be rechristened as the saraswati-Sindhu civilisation.

 

Scientists quote the recent images by Landsat – one in the series of satellites launched by the US for remote sensing – to confirm the existence of a large number of underground faults in the earthquake-prone North western region of India, that constituted the Saraswati-Sindhu valley. The Sindhu river is now known as Indus. Such faults have caused the seepage of Saraswati water to underground channels, contributing to the legend that the Vedic river disappeared.

 

According to an US-based researcher, Dr. Naresh K. Gupta, the Saraswati, once a mighty river, was lost due to seismic activity, which resulted in a change in the course of perennial tributaries like Yamuna and Sutlej. He traces a change in the ground level by extending the line of the Aravalli range northwards to the Himalayas. At Paonta sahib, the seismic changes resulted in the Yamuna changing its course eastwards to join the Ganga at Allahabad. Approximately during the same period, which is calculated to be around 2000 B.C. the Sutlej took a turn westwards, near Ropar town of Punjab to join the Beas (referred to as Vipasa in the Vedas).

 

Dr. Gupta says that it is probable that the desertification of Rajasthan also took place at the same time. He quotes hydro-geological evidence to explain that the existence of underground faults and movement of sand could have caused seepage of the remaining water of the Saraswati, and leaving the river bed dry.

 

It was in 1980, that scientists like Professor Yashpal are said to have recognised the palaeo- channels of the Saraswati using satellite imagery. In 1996, Professor Valdiya is attributed to have traced the course of the river from West Garhwal in the Himalayas to the Gulf of Khambat in Gujarat using hydro-geological techniques. In 1997, Dr. S. M. Roy and Dr. K. M. Kulkarni of the Bhaba Atomic Research center, are reported to have used low levels of Tritium – a naturally occurring isotope – as evidence to prove that water trapped in the underground channels, below the bed of the ancient river, in some parts of Rajasthan belonged to the Saraswati.

 

In his paper, "Saraswati: Legend or History", Dr. Gupta also refers to the 200 page monogram compiled by the Chennai based Dr. S. Kalyanaraman, who took premature retirement from the Asian Development Bank to work on the Saraswati river project. He set up the Saraswati-Sindhu Research Center at Chennai. The map depicted in the book shows the ancient river system in the North-western part of the country, which superimposes on the current river system in the Indo-Gangetic plains.

 

[Avinash]

To him, Saraswati in the Rig-veda meant Goddess Saraswati and not a river.

 

Is this possible that most of places, structures that we know now and which get mention in scriptures are common only in name? To take an example, Greek mythologies use many words which are names of constellations. But these words have not been used in the sense of constellations in those mythologies. Rather, the constellations were latter named on the basis of those mythologies.

[shvu]

Is this possible that most of places, structures that we know now and which get mention in scriptures are common only in name? To take an example, Greek mythologies use many words which are names of constellations. But these words have not been used in the sense of constellations in those mythologies. Rather, the constellations were latter named on the basis of those mythologies.

My Arya Samaj buddy was of the same opinion. He said it may have been possible that a river may have been named after the Goddess Saraswati, but Saraswati in the Rig-veda does not mean a river.

 

If one believes the Vedas are eternal, this will make sense. Obviously the Rig-veda then, cannot talk about a phsyical river in one part of the world, which was flowing at some point of time. It does not make sense for someone to chant eternal mantras about a river which is no longe extant or even if the river is still running and the person is in a different geographical location.

 

Cheers

 

[shvu]

Another similar point which I found very interesting.

 

Winternitz says, "In the entire Vedic literature, there is no mention of the Mahabharata war. But in the Brahmanas, the Kuru field is mentioned as a place where Gods and men performed great sacrifices. Janamejaya, the son of Parikshit is mentioned in the Brahmanas and in a song of the Atharvana veda, Parikshit is praised as a peace loving king under whose reign the Kuru country flourished. In the Yajur veda, Kurus and Panchalas are often mentioned and in the Kathaka (8.6) an anecdote on Dhritarashtra, the son of Vichitravirya is told.

 

But nowhere is the name of Pandu and the Pandavas to be found, as also names like Duryodhana, Karna, etc, in the entire body of Vedic literature."

 

Cheers

 

[shvu]

I used to know one boy of Arya Samaj who was very knowledgable of the Vedas and he was only 17. A very bright guy.

 

Once when we were discussing the Rigveda references of the River Saraswati, he disagreed emphatically. According to him [and probably Arya Samaj] the Vedas did not talk about physical locations in North India, but actually meant divine personalities. To him, Saraswati in the Rig-veda meant Goddess Saraswati and not a river.

 

Cheers

 

[Avinash]

My Arya Samaj buddy was of the same opinion. He said it may have been possible that a river may have been named after the Goddess Saraswati, but Saraswati in the Rig-veda does not mean a river.

 

Have you heard that some people are demanding that some village in Tamilnadu should be named as "Malgudi" in the honour of Late R.K.Narayan who wrote "Malgudi days"? That has still not been done. But if it is done, then it is possible that after many years, people will think that the village "Malgudi" mentioned in R.K.Narayan's stories really existed.