Theism is the best choice.

[sumeet]

Hare Krishna

Please accept my obesiances unto your lotus feet

 

Faith is something we exhibit in our daily or routine activities. Every individual's mind reflects his heart's condition which is full of some sort of desire. Thus one's nature reflected in the mind produces a particular quality of faith. For eg. although there is a possibility that we may encounter an accident yet we drive the car to office because our desire is to earn money to support our life. While doing this we have the faith that nothing bad would happen. Similarly a theif, although knows if he get caught he would be punished severely still he commits crime under the impulse of the deisre, hoping that he will be off with the act of theft without getting arrested. So his faith is directed in that way. So we go to the office under the impulse of desire to earn money to support us, a theive commits crime under some desire in his heart. And our faith is always directed towards the successfulness of our desire irrespective of what it is. If asked, the person going to office has no proof that he will be safe. Neither can he prove that he will be unsafe. There is a 50-50 possibility. Same applies to the theive. In the same way only those souls who want to know & reach God places there faith in the scriptures no matter whether they can be proved or not or whether God's existence can be proved or not. Actually scriptures are the recorded examples of those highly advanced souls and great thinkers who have gone before us in the search to know the Absolute Truth. What they have recorded in their notes, in their doctoral dissertations, that is known as scripture. The experience of what is good and what is to be avoided on the path leading to God consciousness is recorded in the scripture. The words of the scripture are like so many lighthouses showing us the way through the fog or darkness of material conception. Therefore the theists places his faith in the writings of the scriptures and pursues his path toward God. Irrespective of any possibility that can be assigned to his search result he always wants that his desire be fullfilled and hence places the faith in what appears to be a positive result. The theist is not to be blamed because as explained earlier the person going to office, the theif all places their faith positively. They all want the desire in the heart to be fullfilled. This is general human nature that what we desire we wish it should be fullfiled some or the other way. Isn't that ? So our faith is naturally inclined positively. Hence in the same way the theist also places his faith positively to go ahead and attain God, the object of his veneration without any other trouble.

 

However if an atheist still doesn't realizes the sense of a theists choice then he must consider the following:

 

Let us consider for a moment. There are two men. One is a theist and the other an atheist. Each lives out his life according to his creed, and in the end both men have to die. Let us say for the sake of argument that when the theist dies there is no God. Then what does it matter? He believed in God, but in the end there was no God. So what does it matter? Death comes and life is over, finished, the end. No loss, no gain, it’s simply over.

 

On the other hand the atheist dies and he was wrong. There is a God! Then what, what does he do now? It’s too late. He again takes birth in the material world and suffers and enjoys according to the deeds of his past life or is put into hellish condition of life if he has been too sinful. So to be an atheist, one has to admit, is quite a risky proposition. The position of a theist is always safer and more desirable than that of an atheist.

 

Towards the end I would like to conclude that to be a theist is the best way to live.

Many people even don't like the idea of God what to say ponder about his existence because God is declared by all scriptures as Supreme, to whose our will is subordinate, on whom our existence is dependent; but those men are not humble enough to live with digesting these truths or for others who may consider them as possibilities.

Theism is safest amongst athiesm and theism, and so one should intelligently choose to be theist. There is no meaning to the word theist if he denies existence of God and His word the scriptures; so one should also place faith in scriptures. But to those who think that faith is acceptance without questioning must understand that in the foremost scripture of Vedic cannon -BG is all in question and answer format. Only the fact to be seen is that Arjuna is putting submissive enquiry before Lord Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's not arguing, because it is commonsense that if one wants to know something then he must question respectably & submissively rather than puting forward fruitless arguements.

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana says to Brahma in Srimad Bhagavatam-

 

" The Personality of Godhead said: Knowledge about Me as described in the scriptures is very confidential, and it has to be realized in conjunction with devotional service. The necessary paraphernalia for that process is being explained by Me. You may take it up carefully."

 

Dear just as with the material eye one can percieve anything that is material. Similarly Lord's existence is purely spiritual, beyond material nature; His transcendental form can only be percieved by eye of devotion which is nothing but the eye of the pure unalloyed spiritual self of the Jiva. The form of Krishna is visible to that eye in proportion to its purification by the practice of devotion. When the devotion of the neophyte reaches the stage of bhava-bhakti the pure eye of that devotee is tinged with the salve of love by the grace of Krishna, which enables him to see Krishna face to face. The phrase "in their hearts" means Krishna is visible in proportion as their hearts are purified by the practice of devotion. This is beautifully describe below:

 

" I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is Syamasundara, Krishna Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love. "(BS text 38)

 

Although in the beginning one cannot see God face to face immediately but if the seeker has genuine desire and a bonafide spiritual master, then one can begin to feel God's presence. But this also is a profoundly personal experience, not something for the sightseers of the mundane world. "Show me God!" and He simply dances before your eyes. It is not like that. Many things are required if we want to see God. As we gradually progress we can come to the point of seeing Him today or sometime tommorow. As many others have said that faith is independent of reason, this is true- Divine faith is independent of reason. It is a result of God's grace and it involves experience, as opposed to belief, which exists in the intellectual realm. This faith although is independent of reason but still involves personal experience on which it is entirely based on which it becomes stronger.

 

God's form is not a mental concoction but is transcendental, and is visible with the eye of the soul of the devotee under trance.

 

With Love

Your Servant Always

OM TAT SAT

Sumeet.

 

[viji_53]

The Man lives on hopes and faith in God. At every stage particularly in modern days, he has to face several risks, hazards and challenges. If he does not have belief that some one unseen is protecting him, he will be worried and there by suffer from mental torture. The air he breathes is polluted and the food he takes may be contaminated. Who protect him from the ill-effects of these factors? Is there safety when he travels? Still he continues his routine, not realizing that a Superior unseen Force takes care of him and the entire humanity. That Unknown, indescribable Supreme authority is called God. Those who repose trust in Him and entrust themselves seeking His protection will be saved while others will get tossed about in life, but they too will one day realise that God alone can be their constant companion.

There are some people who hold the view that GOD is a mere concept. But careful thought would reveal their ignorance in the true nature of God. The real never ceases to exist. God is the only real ultimate source of energy; who is knowledge and bliss combined and is called by several names. He does not change even when everything change. God is eternal truth and knower of everything. He is intelligent power. God alone knows what He is. Besides Him, the God realized soul who has known the reality about Him may give some indication of what is reality.

Hari Bhol!

 

 

[animesh]

I think that there are very few people who completely believe in God. Similarly there are very few who completely disbelieve in God. Majority believe in God sometimes and do not believe other times. In fact, most of the time people disbelieve in God, but they do not realize that they are disbelieving. At least, I honestly admit that this has happened to me. Many people, when they do something wrong, then they just make sure that nobody is watching them and that they do not leave any proof. I bet that even those people who consiider themselves as theists do this sometime. I am not trying to offend anybody. As I said, I myself belong to this category. Now, when we really believe that there is God and that he is omnipresent, then why do we think that nobody is watching us? So, we see that such kind of people can not be called as complete believers (like me).

On the other hand there are some people who, if asked, will say that they do not at all believe in God. But when they are in deep trouble, then they pray to God, even though they do not show to the world that they are praying. So, they can not be called as complete disbelievers.

[animesh]

Just one clarification. I wrote above

"So, we see that such kind of people can not be called as complete believers (like me)."

 

The words "like me" here do not stand for complete believers but for the whole sentence. So, please do not think that I am trying to call myself as a complete believer. But, on the contrary, I am saying that I am also not a complete believer as I myself sometimes forget that God is always watching whatever I do.

 

I think that I used English language in a vague way. :-)

 

[shvu]

 

Theism is certainly a better choice.

 

For a society to exist in harmony, people have to have values. Like non-violence, kindness, truthfulness, not stealing, etc. Otherwise a society cannot exist. And the idea of a superior power governing us keeps a lot of people in check.

 

Realising this the ancients came up with the idea of giving Religious tones to social values. The said you should be good, peaceful, etc, etc...whatever is important for social life and promised a Heaven, Moksha, bliss AFTER death for such a person. And if someone is sinful, then that person will suffer for that due to his Karma or will go to Hell [semitic].

 

That was a clever thing to do, because that way people will not run behind the usual pleasures of life, which result in frustration and disappointment most of the time. They will focus on the bliss that they will find after death.

 

So the ultimate motive was to have a harmonious and peaceful society. They did that by bringing in religion, the promise of eternal Bliss, and the fear of negative Karma. With the promise of something that is to happen after death, there is no scope for disappointment.

 

So Theism is always a better option for man.

 

Cheers

 

[ggohil]



Sri Shvu

 

>> “ They did that by bringing in religion, the promise of eternal Bliss, and the fear of negative

Karma”

 

How does one account for individuals who have given up the society completely and have

decided to the live in exile. The rules of “being a good member of the society” does not apply to this kind of people.

 

Further, this kind of people will assert that they have found something that is eyond material value.

 

Does this indicated that purpose of religion may go beyond "being a good member of the society."

 

Being a good member of the society may only be the byproduct of following Sri Krsna’s

teachings. On what grounds is one to categorically dismiss the possibility of other significance of Krsna’s teachings which may not be as apparent.

[shvu]

 

Dear Ggohil,

 

I dismiss nothing. Like you said, it may have greater significance that is not apparent. I am not ruling that out at all. But we cannot talk about things which are not obvious.

 

All the talk about a soul, eternal bliss and immortality, is something that you just have to believe. There is no way to know if someone in the past, did find any such thing after death. Even if someone did find any something, how did the ancient people come to know about it? How can anyone talk about what happens after death ?

 

This is where revelation, Avatars and a 'Son of god' step in to make it all convincing. Otherwise all the 'After death' stories would not have lasted.

 

It is quite possible, that religion was created only with the intention of promoting social values. It has worked well. At least, that is the only apparent benefit that we can see, while the other benefits (if any) can never be known.

 

Cheers

[ggohil]

Hare Krsna:

 

Dear Shvu

 

Perhaps one cannot prove immortality, eternal bliss, and so on. But why attach so much importance to the proof.

 

Any item that is proved is only good as the information available at that time. I do not think any one can argue that any scientific proof is eternal.

 

But the authenticity about Veda’s comes, not from the material proof, but reciprocation from almighty. If this reciprocation was proved than it only would be as good as the material proof.

[animesh]

But what exactly is theism? I have come across people who very firmly declare that they believe in God. They go to temples, do pujas. But they have absolutely no hesitation in doing harm to others because of their selfishness. Also, they do not hesitate in doing harm to those who once helped them and again talking sweetly to them when it suited them. Should they be called theists?

[ggohil]



Hare Krsna:

Sri Animesh

Here is my two cents worth.

I always thought that one must love God’s creations before one can truly love God.

If I am to love Sri Krsna then I must love his will and the creation (including people, good or bad) is part of his will.

[ggohil]

Sorry, the above sentence should read

 

"The creation (including people) is part of his will."

 

I, who constantly make mistakes, am part of his creation too. : )