Concoctions in the biographies

[shvu]

 

I have been reading the ISKCON versions of the biographies of the 3 great Acharyas [The big 3] Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhva.

 

Shankara

The ISKCON version of Shankara's biography says nothing about his life details nor his philosophy nor his works. All 100% of it has been spent in saying that Mayavada is false. One wonders if the author knew the meaning of the term biography. Needless to say, none of the arguments provided are true.

 

Ramanuja

 

Much better than the Shankara version as true to it's title this actually appears to be a biography. However there is an interesting incident included from a work named Sri Navadwipa-dham Mahatmya. According to this, Lord Gauranga [Chaitanya] appeared in Ramanuja's dream and told him to keep this vision a secret [one wonders why] and not to broadcast it until he actually takes birth. Ramanuja is moved and desires to see him in action. So Ramanuja was reborn as Anantha during the time of Chaitanya and his desire was fulfilled.

 

Very interesting, considering that,

 

1. Ramanuja lived centuries before Chaitanya.

 

2. This story is not to be found in the original life story of Ramanuja. Of course, he was keeping it a secret and never told anyone. So how then did the author of Navadwipa Mahatmya come to know about this top-secret dream? Divine vision perhaps. Unfortunate because now the people of Ramanuja school do not know about the divine nature of Chaitanya.

 

Madhva

 

Again we have an interesting incident included from the Sri Navadwipa-dham Mahatmya. Surprise, surprise...Lord Gauranga appeared in Madhva's dream too! As usual it was to be kept a secret [because Madhva lived much before Chaitanya] until the author of this work chose to reveal it to us lay people. Which is again the reason why the unfortunate people of the Madhva schools know nothing about this interesting piece of information.

 

It is pathetic to see people faking stories to promote themselves as better than others. One is reminded of all the fake verses quoted to claim that Chaitanya was an avatar. Allthough such stories can only be circulated among the Gaudiyas and ISKCON, it is still not a nice thing to do in my opinion. However it is only an opinion and if people think there is nothing wrong about circulating fake stories, then they are welcome.

 

Another thing is that these biographies are also found in this web-site. Since this is a Web-site on Indian Spirituality in general, one expects to see genuine, unbiased biographies and not the false and biased ISKCON versions. It gives a false picture of Indian traditions. Again, this is only my opinion.

 

Disclaimer: This is posted as a piece of constructive criticism . I state that I am not pretending to be superior, with no hidden motives and holding no special positions. Any apparent sign of sarcasm is strictly coincidental.

 

Cheers

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have been reading the ISKCON versions of the biographies of the 3 great Acharyas [The big 3] Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhva.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Your observations are based on two faulty premises. The first is that these articles are from ISKCON. They aren't. The second is that they are biographies. They aren't. They just contain some general information.

 

Hope that clears up your misconceptions.

 

Regarding the source of the text Navadvipa-mahatmya, these stories of Chaitanya meeting the previous acharyas in His aprakata-lila are originally found in Bhavishya Purana.

 

[jijaji]

jndas says;

 

"Regarding the source of the text Navadvipa-mahatmya, these stories of Chaitanya meeting the previous acharyas in His aprakata-lila are originally found in Bhavishya Purana"

 

Dear jndas....

 

Is there a current translation of this purana? Does it directly mention Sri Chaitanya, Ramanuja and Madhva by name?

I have my doubts..

 

Also what about the Chaitanya Upanisad that was introduced by Bhaktivinode Thakur?

It is not recognized by any other school nor mentioned by any other list of known Upanishads!

 

jijaji

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is there a current translation of this purana?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

As far as I know there is no English transaltion of this Purana. I know there is a Hindi translation available in Delhi, though I don't recall by whom. Motilal Banarsidas has a project to translate the 18 major Puranas into English. They have already completed a number of them. Bhavishya is somewhere on their list of things to do.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Does it directly mention Sri Chaitanya, Ramanuja and Madhva by name?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much more than that. There are whole chapters describing the life of Chaitanya, the goswamis, the four sampradaya acharyas, etc.

 

Of course for a rationalist who doesn't believe in God, it is impossible to accept Bhavishya Purana as authentic, as no one could know the future. The text is considered interpolated on the grounds that it is too correct.

 

For the devotees, the name of the text implies the content. If God wanted to write a book titled "history of the future" (Bhavishya Purana), we would expect Him to be quite accurate since He is all-knowing.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also what about the Chaitanya Upanisad that was introduced by Bhaktivinode Thakur?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

There are countless Upanishads, Puranas, and other Vedic texts that are not within the list of major texts. This does not indicate that the text is bonafide or not. As far as Chaitanya Upanishad, it is a text to be relished by devotees, not necesarily to be used as an evidence. There is ample evidence throughout the Puranas as to Sri Chaitanya's divinity.

 

[shvu]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Your observations are based on two faulty premises. The first is that these articles are from ISKCON. They aren't. The second is that they are biographies. They aren't. They just contain some general information.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

First point:

These articles are by Sriman Atma Tattva Das Adhikari, who I presume is from ISKCON. If he is not, then I stand corrected on the

first point. But since I see these articles on several Iskcon websites, it is not incorrect to call them as Iskcon versions.

 

Second point:

An article titled as Shankara is by default a biography or life-story of his. Of course, a one page biography can only contain general information. Since the same author felt that Madhva and Ramauja's life stories needed to be described, why not Shankara's?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Regarding the source of the text Navadvipa-mahatmya, these stories of Chaitanya meeting the previous acharyas in His aprakata-lila are originally found in Bhavishya Purana.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

In other words, from the traditional view, this information was available to the public from the time of Vyasa. So what exactly was suposed to be kept a secret by Madhva and Ramanuja and from whom? However it is surprising that this public information was not known to either Ramanuja nor Madhva nor any of their followers. Considering the fact that there are different regional versions of the Puranas, I would be very surprised to see a non-Bengal version of the Bhavisya Purana that talks about Goswamis.

 

About the divine nature of Chaitanya:

All the evidence presented to show that Chaitanya was an avatar were false. When challenged with this, the Gaudiya Acharyas said they were all from lost sources. Highly unnacceptable because the GV Sampradaya is less than 500 years old. It is hard to accept that the people of a school would loose sources which show that their school was authorized by an avatar. Another interesting fact is that, they have lost all the sources!

 

Let us assume that they did exist and were lost over time. That implies they were existent at least until the 16th century because the Gaudiyas recorded them in their own literature. Since they were authentic sources, it also means that they were around during the time of Madhva and Ramanuja. Why then, did Madhva say that Vishnu does not incarnate during the Kali yuga? It is quite obvious that Madhva was not aware of these verses about Chaitanya. It follows that,

 

1. This evidence was not around during the 12th century.

 

2. It was existent during the 16th century.

 

3. It disappeared again after that.

 

Anyway considering that Chaitanya is an avatar, why wasn't he mentioned in the Bhagavata Purana or the Vishnu Purana? It was no secret after all, since there are whole chapters about him in the Bhavisya Purana which is also supposed to have been composed by Vyasa in full.

 

In view of all this, it is impossible for people of other schools of Vedanta to take these claims seriously. For the Gaudiyas Chaitanya is an avatar because all their authoritative Literature written by their Acharyas say so just like Madhva is an avatar to the people of his own Sampradya but not necessarily to the people of other schools.

 

Cheers

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why should any sincere seeker read their speculative commentaries on Great Personalities,in the firstplace?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Again, I will remind you that the articles in question have nothing at all to do with ISKCON. It seems some people just have a hatred for ISKCON deep inside their heart which they are unable to become free from. Any chance they get to criticize ISKCON, they are quick to jump up. Though externally such people may claim to follow Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and though they have ample knowledge of his teachings as is evident by their flooding forums with unconnected quotes from the Him and spamming emails to anyone they can, internally they have failed to apply His most basic teaching of being humbler than the straw in the street.

 

Such people need to take a serious look at their self and try to understand their spiritual maturity. The guidance of a self realized soul will be helpful in this regard, much more helpful than a self proclaimed rasa-avatara.

 

[vishal krishna das]

shvu,

 

Others would prefer a different approach to your challenge, but I would like to suggest that there are many things in the official biographies accepted by the devotees of Sri Shankar, Madhva and Ramanuja which are as apparently 'dubious' as those you object to in the Gaudiya Vaishnava versions of the biographies. Thus you may be a little hasty in rejecting these points which are new to you. The Navadwipa..Mahatmya was of course written by a venerable Bengali Vaishnava reformer of the 19th Century, Srila Bhaktivinoda, so your objections are to a view from a different part of India.

 

On the other hand, if a claimed biography of Shankar contains no biography, then that is a major omission which ought to be rectified.

 

Actually the Navadwipa..Mahatmya stories were not an attempt to be 'one up' on other Vaishnavas, whose legitimate differences are recognised by the author. Rather they simply show that the Gaudiya Vaishnavas feel they are part of that community of venerable acharyas, while joining Sri Madhva's followers in their opposition to the teachings of Sri Shankara.

 

Pranams.

[shvu]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Others would prefer a different approach to your challenge, but I would like to suggest that there are many things in the official biographies accepted by the devotees of Sri Shankar, Madhva and Ramanuja which are as apparently 'dubious' as those you object to in the Gaudiya Vaishnava versions of the biographies. Thus you may be a little hasty in rejecting these points which are new to you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

I am presenting a few facts, so no challenge there. Regarding the accepted biographies of the big 3, they were written just after their time and are accepted biographies by their respective traditions and hence by all. Although not all the points may be accepted by all traditions, the biography itself is accepted as the standard one. The same applies to Chaitanya too. The life story of Chaitanya as written by his disciples is the standard one. If an advaitin writes a life story of Chaitanya now which has some new stories like Vivekananda had appeared in Chaitanya's dream and quotes lost verses from a Purana, how much of credibility will it have? In the first place, an advaitin has to properly justify why he is even bothering with the life story of a person belonging to some other tradition. This applies to the author of the Navadwipa-dham too.

 

 

Actually the Navadwipa..Mahatmya stories were not an attempt to be 'one up' on other Vaishnavas, whose legitimate differences are recognised by the author. Rather they simply show that the Gaudiya Vaishnavas feel they are part of that community of venerable acharyas, while joining Sri Madhva's followers in their opposition to the teachings of Sri Shankara

[Guest guest]

 

>>All the evidence presented to show that Chaitanya was an avatar were false. When challenged with this, the Gaudiya Acharyas said they were all from lost sources. Highly unnacceptable because the GV Sampradaya is less than 500 years old. It is hard to accept that the people of a school would loose sources which show that their school was authorized by an avatar. Another interesting fact is that, they have lost all the sources!

 

That assertive is quite ridiculous. No Gaudiya-vaisnava Acarya ever said that the sastric sources pointing out Sri Caitanya avarata were lost. They say that there are many sastric evidences that corroborate Sri Caitanya's avatara.

We may quote some of them:

 

1. From Srimad Bhagavatam (11.5.32):

 

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

sangopangastra-parsadam

yajnaih sankirtana-prayair

yajanti hi su-medhasah

 

"In this Age of Kali, people who are endowed with sufficient intelligence will worship the Lord, who is accompanied by His associates, by performance of sankirtana-yajna." (S. B. 11.5.32)

 

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

sangopangastra-parsadam

 

"Bhagavan appears in Kali-yuga as a devotee. Thus although He is Krsna, He chants harinama like a devotee.

 

yajnaih sankirtana-prayair

yajanti hi sumedhasah

 

"Sri Krsna Caitanya, whose complexion is not black like that of Krsna but is golden (tvis akrsnam), is Svayam Bhagavam Sri Krsna. He is accompanied by associates like Nityananda, Advaita, Gadadhara and Srivasa. Those who are sufficiently intelligent worship this supreme upasya-tattva by performing sankirtana-yajna. In this incarnation, Sri Bhagavan Lord declares Himself not to be Sri Bhagavan, and therefore He is known as Tri-yuga."

 

One may also consult Sri Gargacarya's staments on Srimad Bhagavatam 10th Canto, when he is giving Sri Krsna's names. Sri Gargacarya also states that in Kali-yuga His complexion is golden. He said that although the child Krsna was blackish, He also appears in three other colors--red, white and yellow. He exhibited His white and red complexions in the Satya and Treta ages respectively. He did not exhibit the remaining color, yellow-gold, until He appeared as Lord Caitanya, who is known as Gaurahari.

 

In Srimad-Bhagavatam it is repeatedly and clearly said that the essence of religion in the age of Kali is the chanting of the holy name of Krsna.

 

2. From Mahabharata - Sri Visnu-sahasra-nama (Daba-dharma-parva cpt 189):

 

su varna- varno hemango / varangas candanangadi

sannyasa-krc chamah santo / nistha-santi-pardyanah

 

 

"In His early pastimes He appears as a householder with a golden complexion. His limbs are beautiful, and His body, smeared with the pulp of sandalwood, seems like molten gold. In His later pastimes He accepts the sannyasa order, and He is equipoised and peaceful. He is the highest abode of peace and devotion, for He silences the impersonalist nondevotees."

 

 

In his commentary on the Visnu-sahasra-nama called the Namartha-sudhabhidha, Sril a Baladeva Vidyabhusana, commenting upon this verse, asserts that Sri Caitanya is the Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krsna according to the evidence of the Upanisads. He explains that suvarna-varnah means a golden complexion.

 

He also quotes the Vedic injunction yadapasyah pasyate rukma-varnam kartaram isam purusam brahma-yonim. Rukma-varnam. kartaramisam refers to the Sri Bhagavam as having a complexion the color of molten gold. purusam means the Sri Bhagavam, and brahma-yonim indicates that He is also the Supreme Brahman.

 

This evidence, too, proves that Sri Caitanya is Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krsna. Another meaning of the description of Bhagavan as having a golden hue is that Sri Caitanya's personality is as fascinating as gold is attractive. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana has explained that the word varanga means "exquisitely beautiful."

 

Lord Caitanya accepted sannyasa, leaving aside His householder life, to preach His mission. He has equanimity in different senses. First, He describes the confidential truth of bhagavad-tattva, and second, He satisfies everyone by knowledge and attachment to Krsna.

 

He is peaceful because He renounces all topics not related to the service of Krsna. Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana has explained that the word nistha indicates His being rigidly fixed in chanting the holy name of Sri Krsna. Sri Caitanya subdued all disturbing opponents of devotional service, especially the monists, who are actually averse to the personal feature of Sri Hari.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[shvu]

 

Hi Satyaraja Dasa,

 

I know you from the VNN forums. Welcome aboard.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That assertive is quite ridiculous. No Gaudiya-vaisnava Acarya ever said that the sastric sources pointing out Sri Caitanya avarata were lost. They say that there are many sastric evidences that corroborate Sri Caitanya's avatara.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

They did say that there were 'many' evidences. On scrutiny it was found that they were all false. Then they added that these evidences were from lost sources. You have quoted SB 11.5.32. Now I will quote the same verse from a different translation, which not surprisingly, is quite different from yours.

 

The wise ones then adore him as black in complexion, but brilliant like a sapphire. He is worshipped with all his limbs, decorations, weapons and his attendants. Recital of his excellences and chanting of his names form the principal part of worship. SB 11.5.32

 

Now which translation is the right one?

 

1. In this chapter, KarabhAjana is asked how the Supreme lord is worshipped by men of different ages. KarabhAjana then proceeds to explain how worship varies in different ages in the next 25 (approx) verses. When he comes to how worship in Kaliyuga is done, he tells the above. As you can see, my translations fits in the context, while yours is totally out of context.

 

2. Go back a chapter to 11.4. Here all the incarnations of Narayana are described. After the Buddha, the next avatar is Kalki. The avatars are described in 2 other places in the SB and at all times, it is the Buddha followed by Kalki. Needless to say, there is no Chaitanya in between.

 

3. Madhva clearly said that Vishnu does not incarnate during the Kali-yuga until the dawn of the Krita-yuga. Since he had access to the Bhagavatam, it is clear that he did not interpret that verse as you have.

 

Guess the above points suffice. To check out the article where the Gaudiyas claimed about lost sources, goto www.gosai.com which is a Gaudiya site. I will not bother with your other evidences as you have not mentioned the sources. Anyway I can say with certainity, that they are not from the Bhagavatam or any other valid source.

 

Bet it does not sound ridiculous anymore, does it ?

 

Cheers

 

 

[jijaji]

shvu,

 

I looked all over that site for "The Lost Sources" and couldn't find..could you cut & paste for all to see anyway.

 

;^)

 

jijaji

[shvu]

 

http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/Caitanya.html

[Guest guest]

>> Bet it does not sound ridiculous anymore, does it ?

 

Rather, it sounds more ridiculous than never.

 

Regarding the Srimad Bhagavatan sloka 11.5.32, we present one translation according our understanding, following Sri Guru-varga-anugatya. Of course there may be some other versions of this translation according someone else's understanding and realizations, but it is better you point out your anvaya on that sloka, as we did when we quoted it:

 

krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam

sangopangastra-parsadam

yajnaih sankirtana-prayair

yajanti hi su-medhasah

 

"In this Age of Kali, people who are endowed with sufficient intelligence will worship the Lord, who is accompanied by His associates, by performance of sankirtana-yajna." (S. B. 11.5.32)

 

Besides you could not find any argument against the opinion of Sri Gargacarya in Srimad Bhagavatan 10 th Canto, where he states that Sri Bhagavan displays His yellow color in Kali-yuga.

 

Neither you could context the sloka from Sri Visnu-sahasra-nama (Mahabharata, Daba-dharma-parva cpt 189) and offer any argument against its evidence.

The original discussion was on the legitimacy of some old texts written by Srila Vyasadeva himself, such as Bhavisya Purana and Caitanya Upanisad.

 

Regarding Bhavisya Purana the opponent party states that this is a rare Purana, and only a few manuscripts are available. Therefore it is not a sound proof?!

Regarding Caitanya Upanisad they state that this sruti is a fake, and it was concocted by Srila Bhakti Thakura. They argue that this Upanisad is not present in many of the main lists of Upanisads founded in smrti texts such as Narada Purana, Padma Purana, and so on. But they also cannot list all 1008 Upanisads mentioned in these smrtis texts.

 

Besides that they argue that no Gaudiya-vaisnva acarya is a bona fide source of evidence of Sri Caitanya avatara. Maybe they want to find their proofs in some advatavada acaryas' books.

 

And also we should add to our sources concerning Sri Caitanya avatara, the Sri Visnu-Katyayani Samvada, founded in Padma Purana, Siva-gita, where the Gaura avatara is clearly described in all details.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Guest guest]

 

We should notice the opposite party that Sri Chaitanya's incarnation was a hidden incarnation, thus He buried references to His appearance deep within the ocean of vedic texts. His desire was that His disguise would not be betrayed, so He made sure these references would remain hidden until after His incarnation was complete. These text's were always present, but by the inconceivable yoga-maya of the Lord, He covered His true identity even from the Vedic scholars and panditas. Only the pure devotees understood His actual identity.

 

But Lord Chaitanya's incarnation is mentioned and predicted in numerous scriptures. Besides those evidences from sastras that we already had mentioned, we should also add some very important references, as follows:

 

In the Atharva Veda (Purusha-bodini Upanishad) it is said:

 

saptame gaura-varna-vishnor ity anena sva-shaktya caikyam etya prante pratar avatirya saha svaih sva-manum

shikshayati

 

"In the seventh manvantara, the Supreme Lord will, accompanied by His own associates, descend in a golden form. He will teach the chanting of His own holy names."

 

It is further stated in the Atharva Veda:

 

ito 'ham krita-sannyaso 'vatarishyami sa-guno nirvedo nishkamo bhu-girbanas tira-stho 'lakanandayah kalau

catuh-sahasrabdhopari panca-sahasrabhyantare gaura-varno dirghangah sarva-lakshana-yukta ishvara-prarthito nija-rasasvado bhakta-rupo mishrakhyo vidita-yogah syam

 

"The Supreme Lord Himself says: When between four thousand and five thousand years of Kali-yuga have passed, I will descend to the earth in a place by the Ganges' shore. I will be a tall, saintly brahmana devotee of the Lord, and have a golden complexion. I will be renounced and free from all desire. I will accept the order of renunciation (sannyasa). I will be a devotee advanced in bhakti-yoga. I will chant the holy names of the Lord. I will taste the sweet mellows of My own devotional service. Only the great devotees will understand Me."

 

In the Sama Veda the Lord states:

 

tathaham krita-sannyaso bhu-girbano 'vatarisye tire 'lakanandayah punah punar ishvara-prarthitah sa-parivaro

niralambo nirdhuteh kali-kalmasha-kavalita-janavalambanaya

 

"To deliver the people devoured by the sins of Kali-yuga, I will, accompanied by My associates, descend to the earth in a place by the Ganges shore. I will be a brahmana avadhuta sannyasi. Again and again I will chant the holy names of the Lord."

 

In the Krishna Upanishad it is stated:

 

sa eva bhagavan yuge turiye 'pi brahma-kule jayamanah sarva upanishadah uddidirshuh sarvani dharma-shastrani vistarayishnuh sarvan api janan santarayishnuh sarvan api vaishnavan dharman vijrimbhayan sarvan api pashandan nicakhana

 

"In the Kali-yuga, Lord Krishna will appear in a brahmana's family. He will teach the message of the Upanishads and the dharma-shastras. He will defeat the atheists and offenders and He will establish the truth of Vaishnava dharma."

In the seventh canto of Srimad Bhagavatam is the following verse describing the Lord's incarnations:

 

channah kalau yad abhava tri-yugo 'tha sa tvam

 

"Because in Kali-yuga You appear in a covered incarnation, you are therefore known as Tri-yuga (one who

appears in only three yugas)."

 

The incarnation of Sri Chaitanya is a hidden incarnation because He appears in the guise of His devotee. This

covered incarnation is confirmed in both the Adi Purana and the Narada Purana in the following verse:

 

aham eva dvija-shreshtho nityam pracchanna-vigrahah bhagavad-bhakta-rupena lokam rakshami sarvada

 

"My true identity always concealed, I will assume the form of a brahmana devotee of the Lord. In this form I will deliver the worlds."

 

In the Kurma Purana the following statement is found:

 

kalina dahyamananam uddharaya tanu-bhritam janma prathama-sandhyayam bhavishyati dvi jalaye

 

"To deliver the conditioned souls burning in the troubles of Kali-yuga, in the first sandhya of that age the Lord will take birth in a brahmana's home."

 

In the Garuda Purana the Lord Himself states:

 

kalina dahyamananam paritranaya tanu-bhritam janma prathama-sandhyayam karishyami dvi jatishu

 

"To deliver the conditioned souls burning in the troubles of Kali-yuga, in the first sandhya of that age I will take birth among the brahmanas."

 

aham purno bhavishyami yuga-sandhau visheshatah mayapure navadvipe bhavishyami shaci-sutah

 

"In My original spiritual form, perfect and complete, I will become the son of Shachi-devi in Navadvipa Mayapura at the begining of Kali-yuga.

 

Sri Chaitanya was born in Mayapura, a subsection of the holy town of Navadvipa, to Shachi-devi in 1486 AD,

aproximately 4,500 years after the beginning of the Kali-yuga.

 

ELsewhere in the Garuda Purana it is said:

 

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam lakshmi-kanto bhavishyati daru-brahma-samipa-sthah sannyasi gaura-vigrahah

 

"In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga, the Lord will assume a golden form. First He will be the husband of Lakshmi, and then He will be a sannyasi who stays near Lord Jagannatha at Puri."

 

Sri Chaitanya first married His eternal consort Sri Lakshmi-priya Devi before taking sannyasa at the age of

twenty-four. After taking sannyasa He left Navadvipa in Bengal, and resided in the holy city of Puri in Orissa. Lord Jagannatha, the presiding deity of Puri is known in the Puranas by the name daru-brahma or "the Lord who is wood". This is because the Jagannatha deities in Puri are made from Neem wood.

 

Also in the Garuda Purana:

 

yo reme saha-ballavi ramayate vrindavane 'har-nisham, yah kamsam ni jaghana kaurava-rane yah pandavanam sakha, so 'yam vainava-danda-mandita-bhujah sannyasa-veshah svayam, nihsandeham upagatah kshiti-tale caitanya-rupah prabhuh

 

"The Supreme Lord who enjoyed pastimes with the gopis, who day and night filled the people of Vrindavana with happiness, who killed kamsa, and who in the war between the Kauravas made friendship with the Pandavas, will come again to the earth. Of this there is no doubt. His arm will be decorated with a bamboo danda (stick), He will be a sannyasi and His name will be Chaitanya."

 

The custom is that one begins carrying a bamboo rod (danda) after one takes sannyasa. Sri Chaitanya was an

eka-danda sannyasi, thus He carried a single bamboo rod.

 

In the Devi Purana we find the following statement:

 

nama-siddhanta-sampatti prakashana-parayanah kvacit sri-krishna-chaitanya- nama loke bhavishyati

 

"The Lord will again appear in this world. His name will be Sri Krishna Chaitanya and He will spread the chanting of the Lord's holy names.

 

Sri Chaitanya perfectly illuminated the glories of the nama-siddhanta as predicted in this verse.

 

In the Nrisimha Purana it is mentioned:

 

satye daitya-kuladhi-nasha-samaye simhordhva-martyakritis tretayam dasa-kandharam paribhavan rameti

namakritih gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure bharam haran dvapare gaurangah priya-kirtanah kali-yuge

caitanya-nama prabhuh

 

"The Supreme Lord, who in the Satya-yuga appeared as a half-man half-lion to cure a terrible disease that had

ravaged the daityas, and who in Treta-yuga appeared as Rama, a person who defeated the ten-headed Ravana ,

and who in Dvapara-yuga removed the earth's burden and protected the gopa people of Vraja-pura, will appear again in the Kali-yuga. His form will be golden, He will delight in chanting the Lord's holy names, and His name will be Chaitanya."

 

In the Padma Purana we find the following statement from the Lord:

 

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam gaurango 'ham mahi-tale bhagirathi-tate ramye bhavishyami shaci-sutah

 

"In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga I will appear on the earth in a beautiful place by the Gange's shore. I will be the son of Shachi-devi and My complexion will be golden."

 

In the Narada Purana the Lord says:

 

aham eva kalau vipra nityam pracchanna-vigrahah bhagavad-bhakta-rupena lokan rakshami sarvada

 

"O brahmana, in the age of Kali I will appear disguised as a devotee of the Lord and I will deliver all the worlds."

 

divija bhuvi jayadhvam jayadhvam bhakta-rupinah kalau sankirtanarambhe bhavishyami shaci-sutah

 

"O demigods, in the Kali-yuga take birth as devotees on the earth. I will appear as the son of Shachi in Kali-yuga to start the sankirtana movement."

 

Nama-sankirtana, or the chanting of the Lord's names is the yuga dharma for the age of Kali. Establishing this was Sri Chaitanya's primary purpose for incarnating.

 

In the Bhavishya Purana we find:

 

anandashru-kala-roma- harsha-purnam tapo-dhana sarve mam eva drakshyanti kalau sannyasa-rupinam

 

"O sage whose wealth is austerity, in the Kali-yuga everyone will see My form as a sannyasi, a form filled with tears of bliss and bodily hairs standing erect in ecstacy."

 

Sri Chaitanya would always display such symptoms of pure love of Krishna. When chanting the names of the Lord tears would flow from His eyes, and the hair on His body would stand erect. In his life Sri Chaitanya personally only composed eight verses known as Shikshashtakam. In the sixth verse He states:

 

nayanam galad-ashru-dharaya vadanam gadgada-ruddhaya gira pulakair nicitam vapuh kada tava nama-grahane bhavishyati

 

"O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?"

 

Then in the seventh verse He says:

 

yugayitam nimeshena cakshusha pravrishayitam shunyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me

 

"O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like many years. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in your absence."

 

These emotional symptoms of devotion were constantly being displayed by Sri Chaitanya.

 

In the Matsya Purana the following statement is made by the Lord:

 

mundo gaurah su-dirghangas tri-srotas-tira-sambhavah dayaluh kirtana-grahi bhavishyami kalau yuge

 

"In the Kali-yuga I will take birth in a place where three rivers meet. I will be golden color and tall. I will have a shaven head. I will be very merciful, and I will eagerly chant the holy names."

 

The place where three rivers meet is Navadvipa. It is the custom that eka-danda sannyasis completely shave their head when they take sannyasa, and Sri Chaitanya followed this principle.

 

This same verse is also found in the Vayu Purana with just two words appearing differently. The Vayu Purana verse mentions the Ganges river instead of 'three rivers'.

 

In the Vamana Purana the Lord says:

 

kali-ghora-tamas-channat sarvan acara-var jitan shaci-garbhe ca sambhuya tarayishyami narada

 

"O Narada, taking birth in Shachi-devi's womb, I will deliver the sinful people from the terrible darkness of

Kali-yuga."

 

In the Vayu Purana the Lord states:

 

paurnamasyam phalgunasya phalguni-riksha-yogatah bhavishye gaura-rupena shaci-garbhe purandarat

 

"In the month of Phalguna, when the star phalguni is conjoined with the full moon, I will appear in a golden form begotten by Purandara in Shachi-devi's womb."

 

Sri Chaitanya's father was known by the names Purandara Mishra and Jagannatha Mishra. Sri Chaitanya was born on the full moon day of the month of Phalguna.

 

svarnadi-tiram asthaya navadvipe janashraye tatra dvi ja-kulam prapto bhavishyami janalaye

 

"I will take birth in a brahmana family in the city of Navadvipa, by the Ganges shore."

 

bhakti-yoga-pradanaya lokasyanugrahaya ca sannyasa-rupam asthaya krishna-chaitanya-nama-dhrik

 

"In order to show mercy to the people and engage them in devotional service, I will accept sannyasa. Then My name will be Sri Krishna Chaitanya."

 

In the Ananta Samhita we find:

 

svarnadi-tiram ashritya navadvipe dvijalaye sampradatum bhakti-yogam laksyanugrahaya ca

 

"To show mercy to the people and give them devotional service, the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in a brahmana's home in Navadvipa by the Gange's shore."

 

Then the Lord states:

 

avatirno bhavishyami kalau nija-ganaih saha shaci-garbhe navadvipe svardhuni-parivarite

 

"In Kali-yuga I will descend to the earth with My associates. In Navadvipa, which is surrounded by the Ganges, I will take birth in Shachi-devi's womb."

 

In the Urdhvamnaya Tantra it is mentioned:

 

kalau purandarat shacyam gaura-rupo vibhu smritah

 

"In kali-yuga I will appear in a golden form as the son of Purandara and Shachi-devi."

 

In the Krishna-yamala it is stated:

 

aham purno bhavishyami yuga-sandhau visheshatah mayapure navadvipe varam ekam shaci-sutah

 

"During the first sandhya of Kali-yuga I will descend, with all My powers and glories, to Mayapura in Navadvipa and become the son of Shachi-devi."

 

In the Brahma-yamala:

 

athavaham dhara-dhamni bhutva mad-bhakta-rupa-dhrik mayayam ca bhavishyami kalau sankirtanagame

 

"I will appear on the earth in the garb of My devotee. In the Kali-yuga I will appear in Mayapura to start the

sankirtana movement."

 

kalau prathama-sandhyayam hari-nama-pradayakah bhavishyati navadvipe shaci-garbhe janardanah

 

"In the first sandhya of kali-yuga, Lord Krishna will appear in Navadvipa, in Shachi-devi's womb. In that

incarnation He will teach the chanting of Lord Hari's holy names."

 

In the Ananta Samhita we find:

 

gauri shri-radhika devi harih krishna prakirtitah ekatvac ca tayoh sakshad iti gaura-harim viduh

 

"The golden Goddess Radha is known by the name Gauri and the dark Lord Krishna is known by the name Hari. Aware that both of them have combined, the wise call Him as Gaurahari."

 

navadvipe tu tah sakhyo bhakta-rupa-dharah priye ekangam shri-gaura-harim sevante satatam muda

 

"O beloved, assuming the forms of devotees the gopis will also take birth in Navadvipa. With great happiness they will again and again serve Lord Gaurahari, who is Radha and krishna combined in a single form."

 

In the Krishna-yamala we further find:

 

iti matva kripa-sindhur amshena kripaya harih prasanno bhakta-rupena kalav avatarishyati

 

"Thinking in this way, Lord Krishna, who is an ocean of mercy, mercifully decided to appear as a devotee in

Kali-yuga."

 

gaurango nada-gambhirah sva-namamrita-lalasah dayaluh kirtana-grahi bhavishyati shaci-sutah

 

"His limbs will be golden and His voice deep. He will be very merciful. He will yearn to taste the nectar of His own holy name. He will be attached to chanting His own holy name. He will be the son of Shachi-devi."

 

In the Jaimini-bharata it is said:

 

anyavatara bahavah sarve sadharana matah kalau krishnavataras tu gudhah sannyasa-vesha-dhrik

 

"Lord Krishna descends to the world in many different forms. However in Kali-yuga, His incarnation is hidden. At that time He appears disguised as a sannyasi."

 

In the Yoga-vashishtha we find:

 

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam gaurango 'sau mahi-tale bhagirathi-tate ramye bhavishyati sanatanah

 

"In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga, on the earth, by the beautiful shore of the Ganges, the Lord will appear in His eternal golden form."

 

In the Skanda Purana:

 

antah krishna bahir gaurah sangopangastra-parshadah shaci-garbhe samapnuyam maya-manusha-karma-krit

 

"Outwardly of golden complexion, but inwardly Krishna, I will take My birth in the womb of Shachi-devi.

Accompanied by My associates, servants, weapons, and confidential companions, I will assume the role of a human being."

 

In the Kapila Tantra we find the following statements:

 

kvacit sapi krishnam aha shrinu mad-vacanam priya bhavata ca sahaikatmyam icchami bhavitum prabho

 

mama bhavanvitam rupam hridayahlada-karanam parasparanga-madhya-stham krida-kautuka-mangalam

 

paraspara-svabhavadhyam rupam ekam pradarshaya shrutva tu preyasi-vakyam parama-priti-suchakam

 

svecchayasid yatha purvam utsahena jagad-guruh premalingana-yogena hy acintya-shakti-yogatah

 

radha-bhava-kanti-yuktam murtim ekam prakasayan svapne tu darshayam asa radhikayai svayam prabhuh

 

"Then Sri Radha said to Lord Krishna: O beloved, please hear My words. I yearn to become one with you. Please show a form where You and I embrace and Our two bodies become one, a form filled with the love I bear for You, a form filled with auspicious and blissful pastimes, a form that brings bliss to the heart, a form that unites Our two natures.'

 

"Hearing His beloved's words, which were filled with joy and love, Lord krishna passionately embraced Her. Then by the touch of His inconceivable potency Their two forms joined and became one, a single form endowed with Sri Radha's divine love and glorious splendour. In a dream Lord Krishna showed all this to Sri Radha."

 

Other direct references are found in the Vishvasara Tantra, Kularnava Tantra, Brahma-rahasya, and

Vishnu-yamala. Besides these there are complete chapters about Sri Chaitanya's incarnation in the Vayu Purana and Bhavishya Purana, which are too long to quote here. Also there is a text by the name Chaitanya Upanishad within the Atharva Veda, which explains the Lord's incarnation in Kali-yuga. We have not cited it here, as it was rediscovered in recent times, so most people will reject it's authenticity, or at least its value as evidence.

 

In the Ananta Samhita we find this very relevant statement regarding Sri Chaitanya's incarnation:

 

aprakashyam idam guhyam na prakashyam bahir mukhe bhaktavataram bhaktakhyam bhaktam bhakti-pradam

svayam man-maya-mohitah kecin na jnasyanti bahir-mukhah jnasyanti mad-bhakti-yuktah sadhavo nyasino 'malah

 

"Those who are bewildered by My illusory potency will not understand the great secret of My appearance in this world in My personal form, in My form as the incarnation of a devotee, in My form bearing the name of a devotee, in My form as a devotee, and in My form as the giver of devotional service. This secret is not to be revealed to them. Only the saintly, pure, renounced devotees, diligently engaged in My devotional service, will be able to understand Me in these forms."

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

 

[shvu]

 

 

1. I gave you the correct translation, and you skipped that. Let me know if you want a word-to-word transliteration and I can give you that too. Or more simply you can try it yourself to see that your translation is wrong.

 

2. I also explained further how my translation is within the context of that chapter, while yours is not, yet you skipped that too.

 

3. By saying Chaitanya was an avatar of the Supreme, you are calling Madhva a liar. And by doing so, you bring down the value of your own Sampradaya which is founded on Madhva's philosophy.

 

4. Now you have switched to saying that Chaitanya was a secret Avatar. Yet you claim that he was mentioned in the Sruti as a Kali-yug avatar and has whole chapters describing him in the Bhavisya Purana. How is it a secret then?

 

5. Why then did no one notice these references in the Sruti except fo rthe Gaudiyas? I guess you read the article on gosai.com. Most, if not all of the references that you have mentioned above are false and not to be found in the Sruti. That explains why.

 

6. It is clear and evident that someone lied that Chaitanya was an avatar and went to the extent of coming up with false evidence. Perhaps he was hoping that no one would verify his statements and that he could get away with it. But unfotunately he did not realize that he was contradicting Madhva by saying so, and that his claims would be verified.

 

Anyway Madhva denied this kali-yuga avatar. Chaitanya never claimed to be one. How much of importance would you give to the claim of someone who came later, who contradicts Madhva?

 

I had not noticed the Sahasranama verse. I will get back to you on that soon, after verifying to see if it exists at all.

 

Cheers

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>1. I gave you the correct translation, and you skipped that. Let me know if you want a word-to-word transliteration and I can give you that too. Or more simply you can try it yourself to see that your translation is wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

You are incorrect on this point, as the translation provided is not incorrect gramatically, it just deviates from you understanding. Both translations provided are quite literal and accurate.

 

 

[shvu]

 

This issue can be solved very simply.

 

Since both the translations differ in their meaning, obviously only one of them has to be correct. Take the context into account as is done during such situations, and there should be no doubts.

 

Cheers

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since both the translations differ in their meaning, obviously only one of them has to be correct.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

You always make the mistake of basing your assumptions on faulty premises. Something which is "obvious" to you also happens to be incorrect. Vedic text are not limited to a single meaning. Each text has hundreds of meanings, some obvious and some requiring explanation. On the very external level, each text has four meanings corresponding to dharma, artha, kama and moksha.

 

Sometimes what appears obvious to us is actually illusion. This is why the scriptures advise us to approach a self-realized soul, or tattva-darshi. The senses are always subject to illusion. Thus what appears crystal clear to us may actually be a thick cloud of avidya. It is the guidance of the tattva-darshi which will benefit us.

 

[shvu]

 

Fair enough. But like I said, such discrepancies are resolved by taking the context into account. Now if one can explain the other translation alongwith it's context then of course, it can be taken as an alternative meaning.

 

btw Lord Gauranga appeared in Nimbarka's [12th century] dream too. As usual, Nimbarka cried and the whole dream was supposed to be kept a secret and was all hush-hush.

 

Courtesy - Sri Navadwipa Dham Mahatmya

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

 

Dear Shvuji, now it seems that you will have an extra work to re-translate all these quotes from very ancient sastras, and make all them more palatable to your own beliefs. We had quoted at least 26 quotes as evidences of Sri Caitanya avatara from sruti, smrti and agama sastras, by Sri Guru and Vaisnavas mercy and to their satisfaction.

 

It is also interesting that you may observe that Buddha and Kalki are also Sri Visnu's avataras who appears in Kali-yuga. Sastras also states that Sri Visnu's avatara are countless in all times, places and circumstances, no one is competent to count all them. Now you should conciliate these evidences with the statement made in sastra that Visnu is Tri-yuga, also corroborated by Sri Madhacarya.

 

Remember that there is no injunction that recommends that one should study sastras by his own account. Satras are to be studied under the anugatya of a self realized soul, to avoid and to harmonize these many contradictions. Your lexographycal approach on sastras will not help you to find the Truth.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[shvu]

 

I have said all that I had to say.

That's all, your honor.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

>> By saying Chaitanya was an avatar of the Supreme, you are calling Madhva a liar. And by doing so, you bring down the value of your own Sampradaya which is founded on Madhva's philosophy.

 

Your ignorance on sampradaya's affairs is very deep. In Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya the philosophy is called acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva and in Madhva's branch of the sampradaya, the philosophy is suddha-dvaita-tattva. They are not the same in many aspects concerning jiva-tattva, jagat-tattva and their relations with Sri Bhagavan.

 

In our sampradaya the common point is upasaya-tattva. That tattva is the only aspect that may causes a rupture in a sampradaya, and not some philosophical aspects. In fact all the 4 Vaisnava-sampradaya's philosophies are savisesa-vada, and there is no fundamental difference among them. But they diverge in upasya-tattva.

 

>> Lord Gauranga appeared in Nimbarka's [12th century] dream too. As usual, Nimbarka cried and the whole dream was supposed to be kept a secret and was all hush-hush.

 

That's another show of deep ignorance on the meaning of the word 'dream' employed by the Acarya. In this case, as well as in many of smrti and agamic texts, the word 'dream' is employed in the sense of 'mystic trance' or samadhi state. In this state there are no considerations of limitations of time and space, as one is always related with Sri Bhagavan's conscience. That's to say, one who attains samadhi is to be consider as omniscient, as he is always aware of Sri Bhagavan's will. Therefore, Nimbarka, Ramanuja, Madhva and Visnusvami, who are perfect and masters in the subject matter of samadhi, are completely aware of all of Sri Bhagavan's desires and always longing to satisfy Him.

 

Obviously the Acarya also wrote this Sri Navadvipa-Mahatmya under the state of samadhi. As bhakti-yoga is to be considered as a science, everyone who is under the anugatya of a master of samadhi should also attain this state. Otherwise, if the result were not reproducible, yoga would not be considered as a science; it would be an art. So, probably you are only misunderstanding Sri Acarya's books due a lack of sadhu-sanga.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If the Acharya meant Samadhi, then why use the word dream? Was it the translator lacking in english skills or is it you re-interpreting it so?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

It is common in sanskrit to use the words "yoga-nidra" (mystic sleep) to refer to a state of trance in complete samadhi.

 

[shvu]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Your ignorance on sampradaya's affairs is very deep. In Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya the philosophy is called acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva and in Madhva's branch of the sampradaya, the philosophy is suddha-dvaita-tattva.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

The Madhva part has been clarified. Apparently due to the effect of Yoga-maya Madhva et al., did not know about the evidence pertaining to Chaitanya. Just a little magic. And as the Navadwipa Dham says, they knew about Chaitanya through a dream which was top-secret. That explains why Madhva was clear that there would be no avatar of Vishnu until the end of this Yuga. It is all very clear now.

 

Excuse my deep ignorance. Since you have a different philosophy, why have Madhva's name in the title of your Sampradaya? Aren't you contradicting yourself?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That's another show of deep ignorance on the meaning of the word 'dream' employed by the Acarya. In this case, as well as in many of smrti and agamic texts, the word 'dream' is employed in the sense of 'mystic trance' or samadhi state.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Whether it was a dream or samadhi, it changes nothing. Again please excuse my deep and steep ignorance. If the Acharya meant Samadhi, then why use the word dream? Was it the translator lacking in english skills or is it you re-interpreting it so?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Obviously the Acarya also wrote this Sri Navadvipa-Mahatmya under the state of samadhi.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Clap! Clap!] Why didn't I think of this before? That explains everything. Evidently the person who wrote that article on Chaitanya's divinity must also have been in Samadhi. How can a person like me who is in deep ignorance understand the writings of someone who was in deep Samadhi? How dumb of me!

 

I particularly like the way you have discussed so far. Take a point and and reply with a few lines out of context like you have done in the last posting. Or else it is like this,

 

You: We have 26 pieces of evidence...

Me: They are all false as shown. They also contradict Madhva. What do you say to that?

 

You: We have 26 pieces of evidence...

Me: Why don't you address my points? I said the verse you have supplied from the Bhagavatma is out of context. I also said that the Gaudiyas trhemselves have admitted that the verses have been lost in gosai.com

 

You: We have 26 pieces of evidence...

Me: Ok...that's good for you. Have fun!

 

Cheers