Guest guest Posted April 30, 2001 Report Share Posted April 30, 2001 >> It is also suprising that Madhva did not appear in the dreams of any of the major Acharyas in his own line after the 16th century [after which it was no longer a secret] and tell them to switch to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. As we already told you differences among sampradayas are due upasya-tattva, and not other considerations such as philosophies and material aspects. Upasya-tattva realization enables one to svarupa realization, and svarupas are individual and different. In Gaudiya-vaisnavism these realizations are mainly to those whose svarupa is placed at Vraja and Navadvipa, and not for all others. Those whose svarupa is placed at Paravyoma Vaikuntha, for example, will be attracted by another upasya-tattva, named Vaikunthapati Narayana, and will become more attracted by the precepts of Sri Sampradaya than to Gaudiya-vaisnavism. Paramatma is the jiva's internal prompter and He will act as the caita-guru, the internal guru, always addressing the jiva towards his best association. Paramatma will not prompt any jiva to follow a path that is not suitable to his own svarupa. That is why one may find many different levels and paths in the whole Vaisnavism. dasa dasanudasa Satyaraja dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted April 30, 2001 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As we already told you differences among sampradayas are due upasya-tattva, and not other considerations such as philosophies and material aspects. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is not a common view. The majority would disagree with this. Besides, having the same Upasya-Murti does not mean that the Upasya-tattvas are the same. Anyway we have already gone through this before, and let us not rake it up again. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2001 Report Share Posted April 30, 2001 >> As he thinks of himself with 'form' he cannot help thinking of his God also with form. The worship of Saguna Brahman is EASY. Ordinary people may mistaken saguna-brahman with Bhagavan, as the attribute form is present in both conceptions. But there is a gulf of difference between both aspects of Bhagavan. In Gita,12.5 Sri Krsna states that to worship the non-manifest is quite difficult, and thereafter He instructs one to worship the His manifested form. But if someone is worshiping Him as follows: "O Yadunandana, I have come to You out of fear of material existence. I chant Your name, day and night. Please grant me moksa. O Sri Hari You are Brahman. I have fallen into the snare of maya. Please deliver me from this entanglemente and let me merge in oneness with You." These sentiments are jñana-misra-bhakti. This is only a semblance of bhakti (abhasa) and may give one mukti in the form of Brahman. Bhagavan is not attained by this kind of bhakti. He is attained only by suddha-bhakti, the kind of bhakti completely free of jñana and karma. In the Gita (6,47) it is said: sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo matah - "I consider one who worship Me with faith to be the best of all yogis." The bhajana Sri Krsna is referring to in this sloka is suddha-bhakti. This is the kind of bhakti that may control Bhagavan. When this suddha-bhakti is perfect, it is prema. This process may take many lifetimes to be perfect matured. This is the way to attain nitya-siddja-bhava. This kind of bhakti have nothing to do with mukti in the conception of brahma-vadis. dasa dasanudasa Satyaraja dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2001 Report Share Posted April 30, 2001 After the stage of svarupa-siddhi, the stage attained by Sri Madhva and other acaryas, one may born in a brahmanda where Sri Krsna is playing His pastimes. This siddha will born from the womb of a gopi and there, under gopi's anugatya (direction) he may reciprocate some prema-bhakti, not before that stage. During the season of saradiya, at the full moon night, these newcomers will play rasa lila by the first time, and see what may happens: tasam tat-saubhaga-madam viksya manam ca kesavah prasamaya prasadaya tatraivantaradhiyata (Srimad Bhagavatam 10.29.48) Before Krsna began His play with the Vraja gopis in the saradiya rasa-lila he called them with His flute and tasted what was their mood. When He saw that they had such great mood in pure bhakti, not having any desires for material enjoyment or jñana , only prema-bhakti, Sri Krsna was very pleased. He then gave them a few crooked words. Then, being satisfied with their answers given in pure love, He played with them. All the gopis of Vraja thought themselves very fortunate because Sri Krsna is their beloved. "We are playing and dancing with Him." They thought, "In this world we are the most fortunate persons - no one is more fortunate than us." Sri Krsna seeing their mood thought, "They are here with Me, but their happiness is only for themselves, not for Me. When they experience the mood of separation and deep attachment, then they will be deeply absorbed with Me. Then they will be successful." "I have Sri Krsna. I am serving Sri Krsna. I am happy." This is not suddha-bhakti. Thereafter, Sri Krsna left the rasa-lila sthali and these new gopis entered in a mood of separation, which is more suitable for their apprenticeship. These experiences may take many lifetimes at any Vraja-bhumi, until one attains his vastu-siddhi, perfection in prema-bhakti. dasa dasanudasa Satyaraja dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted April 30, 2001 Report Share Posted April 30, 2001 >Basically this will depend on who is more powerful, Vishnu or Chaitanya. ---------------- Are equal, but Lord Caitanya is higher than all. ---------------- >The latter may have happened if both Gods are equally powerful. ----------------- It is the same Person. ----------------- >SD, if you or any of your Goswami friends have the habit of going to Samadhi, please find out if Madhva is in Vaikunta or Goloka ----------------- Some great acaryas, like Rämänujäcärya and Madhväcärya, also came from Draviòa-deça and became great preachers. They were all situated on the platform of sakhyam atma-nivedanam............. **sakhyam It not Vaikuntha In another sense, however, the universe is real. In his commentary on Vedanta-sütra, Çréla Madhväcärya has confirmed this by quoting the following statement from the Vedic çruti-mantras: satyaà hy evedaà viçvam asåjata. “This universe, created by the Lord, is real.” The great rival of Äcärya Sankara, Srila Madhvacarya Änandatértha, cites his own favorite sruti-mantras in this regard, such as mukta hy etam upasate, muktanam api bhaktir hi paramänanda-rüpiëé: “Even those who are liberated worship Him, and even for them devotional service is the embodiment of supreme bliss”; and amåtasya dhärä bahudhä dohamänaà/ caraëaà no loke su-dhitäà dadhätu/ oà tat sat: “May His feet, which bountifully pour forth floods of nectar, bestow wisdom upon us who are living in this world.” Madhväcärya in his commentary on the Muëòaka Upaniñad. He quotes this verse from the Näräyaëa-saàhitä: dväparéyair janair viñëuù païcarätrais tu kevalaiù kalau tu näma-mätreëa püjyate bhagavän hariù “In the Dväpara-yuga people should worship Lord Visnu only by the regulative principles of the Närada-païcarätra and other such authorized books. In the Age of Kali, however, people should simply chant the holy names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” The Hare Kåñëa mantra is specifically mentioned in many Upanisads, such as the Kali-santarana Upanisad The Hare Krisna mantra is specifically mentioned in many Upaniñads, such as the Kali-santarana Upaniñad, where it is said: hare krisna hare krisna krisna krisna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare iti ñoòaçakaà nämnäà kali-kalmaña-näçanam nätaù parataropäyaù sarva-vedeñu dåçyate “After searching through all the Vedic literature one cannot find a method of religion more sublime for this age than the chanting of Hare Krisna.” Their ultimate goal (mukti) is simply a form of material desire. A pure devotee should be free from all kinds of material desire. He simply engages in the service of the Lord. Nonetheless, Caitanya Mahaprabhu was pleased that the Madhväcärya-sampradäya, or the Tattvaväda-sampradäya, accepted the transcendental form of the Lord. This is the great qualification of the Vaiñëava sampradäyas. This transcendental ecstatic existence of a devotee was completely exhibited by Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu. In this regard, Çréla Madhväcärya writes as follows: tad-bhäva-bhävaù tad yathä svarüpaà bhaktiù kecid bhaktä vinåtyanti gäyanti ca yathepsitam kecit tuñëéà japanty eva kecit çobhaya-käriëaù The ecstatic condition of devotional service was completely exhibited by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who sometimes danced, sometimes cried, sometimes sang, sometimes remained silent, and sometimes chanted the holy name of the Lord. That is perfect spiritual existence. The great Madhväcärya quotes the following relevant passages from the Skanda Purana: kåñëa-kämäs tadä gopyas tyaktvä dehaà divaà gatäù samyak kåñëaà para-brahma jïätvä kälät paraà yayuù “At that time the gopés, who desired Krisna, gave up their bodies and went to the spiritual world. Because they properly understood Krisna to be the Supreme Absolute Truth, they transcended the influence of time.” pürvaà ca jïäna-saàyuktäs taträpi präyaças tathä atas täsäà paraà brahma gatir äsén na kämataù “In their previous lives most of the gopés were already fully endowed with transcendental knowledge. It is because of this knowledge, not their lust, that they were able to attain the Supreme Brahman.” na tu jïänam åte mokño nänyaù pantheti hi çrutiù käma-yuktä tadä bhaktir jïänaà cäto vimukti-gäù “The Vedas declare that without spiritual knowledge there is no valid path to liberation. Because these apparently lusty gopés possessed devotion and knowledge, they achieved liberation.” ato mokñe ’pi täsäà ca kämo bhaktyänuvartate mukti-çabdodito caidya- prabhåtau dveña-bhäginaù “Thus even in their attainment of liberation, ‘lust’ followed as a manifestation of their pure devotion. After all, what we call liberation was experienced even by envious persons like Sisupala.” bhakti-märgé påthaì muktim agäd viñëu-prasädataù kämas tv açubha-kåc cäpi bhaktyä viñëoù prasäda-kåt “By the mercy of Lord Visnu, one who follows the path of devotional service gains liberation as a by-product, and such a person’s lusty desire, which would normally invoke misfortune, instead invokes the mercy of Visnu when exhibited in pure devotion.” dveñi-jéva-yutaà cäpi bhaktaà viñëur vimocayet aho ‘ti-karuëä viñëoù çiçupälasya mokñaëät “Lord Visnu will save even a devotee possessed of an envious life. Just see the extreme mercy of the Lord, as shown by His granting liberation to Çiçupäla!” Sripada Rämänujäcärya and Madhvacarya break the teeth of the Mayavaädi philosophers, who can therefore be called Vidantés, “toothless.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted April 30, 2001 Report Share Posted April 30, 2001 The soul "develops" a body or this body eternally and is simply latent by a material body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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