Regulativeprinciple

[mkK18]

I have been Asked a doubt by a person that whether masterbution is coming under ilicitsex or not?

[Gauracandra]

I believe it would. Essentially I think the view is that sex without the possibility of procreation should not be performed. I don't know if there are any specific verses that would specify this, though I have read verses in the past that said one should retain one's semen as much as possible.

 

Usually when sex is separated from procreation it quickly deteriorates into very self-destructive behavior. Not to change the topic too much, but there is a really good, and very controversial book, called "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS" by Michael Fumento. In the book, the author explains very simply why AIDS spread so quickly among the homosexual population. The answer was real simple: they had far more sexual encounters than did heterosexuals. He quoted a CDC (Centers for Disease Control - which is a U.S. Government Health Agency) study that did an analysis of the average number and distribution of sexual encounters by various categories. The average heterosexual male in the U.S. will have in his lifetime about 12 sexual partners, whereas the average homosexual male will have about 800. And the distributions are very different. Among homosexual males it can get well over 2000 in a lifetime. To me the reason is obvious: Gay men can't get pregnant, so to them it is simply sex for its own sake, so why not engage in it as much as possible. For a heterosexual male, he has to find a woman, and for her there is a consequence - pregnancy. Therefore women actually uphold the civilization by setting requirements on how men behave. If women lower their chastity then there will always be those men who will take advantage of the situation. Anyways, didn't mean to get off topic, but I think the answer is yes.

 

Gauracandra

[Guest guest]

Dharma-sastras such as Visnu-srmti, Manu-samhita, Padma Purana, and so on consider masturbation and other kinds of abnormal sexual intercourse as 'anayoni maithuna' (intercourse outside the vagina). They all consider this kind of sexual practices very abominable and most sinful than illicit sex with a partner of the opposite sex.

 

The demands of genitals are of two types:

 

1. In accordance with scripture - When a person who has attained maturity marries in accordance with scriptural regulations and observes the prescribed dharma for a householder by following the proper behavioral codes for begetting good progeny, including also his own pleasure (kama) and social development (artha), he regulates the demand of the genitals in a progressive way according sanatana-dharma sastras.

 

2. Not sanctioned by scripture - There are many different types of illicit sexual indulgence, that transgress sastras (scriptures) and social codes, as for example acceptance of another man's wife, lust after the eight types of conjugal exchanges and enjoying the senses by artificial and licentious means contrary to sastra codes.

 

One should be aware that the control of the demands of the tongue, belly and genitals in a progressive way are meant to control the mind. The mind should be focused in the aim of yoga, and not traveling here and there all time. An uncontrolled mind is one's worst foe, as states Sri Krsna in Gita (6.5), therefore one should try to control the mind by controlling the senses in that order; tongue, belly and genitals. It is a hard process, and slow and gradual. No one can be successful without sadhu-sanga, association with those saintly persons who already had attained mastership over their senses.

 

There is no prescription of any dry renunciation in sastras. Renunciation should be gradual (yukta-vairagya) and never dry and abrupt (phaguna-vairagya). This injunction includes sexual demands, but for certain sexual behavior that is not sanctioned by sastras should always be rejected.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Dasha]

OK for sastriks injunctions, but please tell me what is the worst in the following situation:

 

You are a loyal husband, and for some reason or another (seakness or whatever) your wife does not want ( or can) anymore have sexual intercourses.

But you still have sexual desires.

So what is the best (or the worst):

 

<LI>You go to visit your neibourgh's wife<LI>You regularly go to see a prostitute<LI>You free yourself from time to time from this strong sex urge that disturb your mind and your body

 

Of course none of these are good as far as the scriptures are concern, but infortunately we are in kali yuga, and some time we have to do the best with the worst.

 

As long as we are not pure enough we will have sex desires, so rather than to artificially try to stop sex urge, it seem to be better to behave intelingently.

 

This remind me a story:

 

Two sanyasis are walking together. On their way they meet a women on the shore of a river. She was crying because she could not cross the river. So one of the 2 sanyasis took her in his arm and help her to cross the river. On the other side he put her back on the ground, she thanks him, and the 2 sanyasis just go on their way.

 

At the end of the day, the sanyasis who had not take the women in his arm ask the first one:

 

"Dear Prabhu, please tell me,I cannot understand, you are a sanyasi, and as such you are not suppose to take a women in your arm. This is countrary to the scriptures and very dangerous for your spiritual life."

 

The first sanyas ask:

"What do you mean ? Which women do you speek about?"

 

"The women that you help to cross the river, don't you remenber at noon, when you took her in your arm?

 

"Oh yes, now I do, but you see, May be I keep her in my arm for a few minutes, but it seems that you have keep her in your mind for several hours"

 

So what is the worst

 

Either , when you really have the urge, you get rid of it by some mechanical mean, or you artificially try to control over it but you keep your mind fix on it for days, up to the point where you will anyway have to satisfy it.

 

We always have a choise to do:

 

Either you concentrate all day on how to get rid of sexual urge; or you concentrate as much as possible on your devotionnal service to Krsna, and just make some arrangements for some disturbances that may occur from time to time.

 

For me it is sure that the second solution will lead progressively to be detached from sex attachement, as long as you are sincere in your effort to get rid of it.

 

Let's cheerfully chant Hare Krsna

 

Dasha

[Gauracandra]

I wouldn't judge someone. I read a nice quote by JNDas, perhaps in his newsletter, which made a lot of sense to me. He said we should never judge ourselves or others against one another ("Oh he is spiritually advanced, but that other person is less so, but I am a little bit more than that person" etc...". One can judge ONESELF only against the saints and only as a way of measurement. One should not spend one's time measuring others advancements. I really wish I had that quote available, because he said it so much better than I am right now. But when we are as fallen as we are, where is the question of "falling down". We should praise all others for what ever little they have done.

 

Gauracandra

[Guest guest]

>>You are a loyal husband, and for some reason or another (seakness or whatever) your

wife does not want ( or can) anymore have sexual intercourses. But you still have sexual desires.

 

Those who are in the path of sanatana-dharma should always follow sastra. Sastra foreseen situations like that, faced in the platform of sakama-karma. In Manu-smrti and other dharma-sastra one will find his answers to that question.

 

Anayoni-maithuna is consider the most sinful kind of illicit sex. Sastra state that brahma is placed in semen and an ejaculation outside a vagina profanes brahman. Therefore, sastra does not prohibit polygamy, that is considered a bona fide kind of conjugal relationship. Sastra also state that prostitution is a kind of illicit sex, meant only to satisfy one's lust, but it is less sinful then anayoni-maithuna and other perverted forms of sex, such as intercourse among men and others species.

 

We should enhance that no one can be freed from the urges of his genitals by the process of phalguna-vairagya (dry or abrupt renunciation). The method prescribed is yukta-vairagya (gradual renuntiation), under proper association (sadhu-sanga) and under anugatya (direction) of someone who had attained mastership over his senses.

 

Some moral concoctions with basis on social behavior and human understanding are to be considered as upa-dharma, temporary dharma, not eternal and non-Vedic. They have nothing to do with sanatana-dharma and with the natural spiritual evolution of jivas.

 

[Dasha]

Therefore, sastra does not prohibit polygamy, that is considered a bona fide kind of conjugal relationship. Sastra also state that prostitution is a kind of illicit sex, meant only to satisfy one's lust, but it is less sinful then anayoni-maithuna

Yes but in the westerners countries polygamy is not admitted, so you just have to practice "phalguna-vairagya" (?), or spend the family money with prostitutes, or go to see the wife of your neibourgh, or accept to burn into hell for a few kalpa !!!!!!!!

 

Sorry but the choice is not very easy to do.

 

To practice phalguna vairagya, I cannot do.

To spend my money and time to see prostitutes is out of question,

My neibourgh's wife (or else) do not interested me at all,

 

So I just hope I will be able to keep chanting Hare Krsna into hell !!!!!!

 

Haribol

[Guest guest]

>> Sorry but the choice is not very easy to do.

To practice phalguna vairagya, I cannot do.

To spend my money and time to see prostitutes is out of question,

My neibourgh's wife (or else) do not interested me at all.

 

But sastras are like a desire tree, and can give one whatever he wants. If you feel that these instructions on regulate sexual life are too much difficult to be followed, try this other instruction; "One should hear about the playful activities of Sri Krsna with the gopis in sadhu-sanga. By hearing these narratives continuously, the decease of the heart named lust (kama) will be gradually healed..."

 

This is a nice sastric instruction. No dry efforts to hold genitals' demands. You do not need to do phalguna-vairagya, you can save your money, and you'll forget your neighbor's wife. All sort of lusty desires may be cured by this process, and you also may avoid to visit Yamaraja. Is it hard?

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[amanpeter]

Dear Satyaraj, Have to agree with you this time, prabhu, though it should perhaps be pointed out that the process is highly personal, not mechanical. Becoming absorbed in the gopis' pastimes, personalities, moods, relationships, etc. is the only real solution. We must involve our emotions and share our heartfelt feelings with Srimati Radharani, in particular. She is immediately and easily accessible for all sincere devotees, as Sri Krsna's compassionate nature, through the Divine Grace of Lord Caitanya and Nityananda Prabhu. Sex desires need not be artificially suppressed nor can they be released without worsening our unfortunate condition. Radhika transforms lust into love and She can do it in a moment, when we truly regret our sinful position and express deepest remorse from our heart of hearts directly to Her personally. I have experienced Her mercy in that regard myself, when it seemed to me a matter of life and death. If anyone else has reached such a point in their lives and are serious enough, I would be glad to help by Email. Peter

 

------------------

 

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna

Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare