ISKCON - "really Hindu" or not?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishnas are being petty when they complain about being labeled Hindus. That is what people call ALL Vedic sects. It's just a name that helps people identify the Vedic religion from other eastern religions, like Jainism and Buddhism.

 

MOST Vaishnavas (only the Hare Krishna sect) have no problem being called Hindu, and yes, they are well aware of the differences between Smartism and Vaishnavism.

 

Rather than offending Hindus of other sects, by slamming the Hindu religion, we can attract them by showing Vaishnavism is a pure form of Hinduism (the name for the Vedic religion in our modern time). If we disassociate ourselves entirely from the Hindu religion, we will never attract Hindus to listen to us.

[vijay]

Prabhupada used Hindu in different contexts, when talking generally he often said hindu sastra, however when talking on the absolute level, god is neither hindu or muslim etc, his followers are not under any designation except the servents of god. He gives the example that there is no such thing as different dharmas like hindu muslim christian as the utimate dharma is to love god. In another context he would call hinduism a dried up religion as a large section of so called hindus accept the caste system and believe non brahmana born westerners cant become brahamanas, others believe worshiping anything leads to the same goal wheteher god demigod, themselves or cockroach, others invent incarnations in the name of hinduism and a large section of hindus accept this nonsense which degrade so called hinduism further. So one person thinks that accepting all these concepts is hinduism another thinks it following the vedas. So even among hindus what constitutes a hindu isnt clear, let alone when preaching to westeners, therefore prabhupada gave the process of love of god as a simple science (which it is) not fused about petty names of what this process is called and not wanting to mix it with a hodge podge of ideas.

 

Depeneding on who your talking to you identify your selves in a certain way, if someone asks you who are you, to an acedemic you identify your self in a certain way, to a fellow national you may say your are from the same state, to a relative you may describe your relationship. Prabhupada generally spoke on the absolute level and spoke not on bodily designations, but those that want to speak or understand only this level we can identify our selves as men,women,indian,american,hindu,christian etc.

[Guest guest]

 

Prabhupada used Hindu in different contexts, when talking generally he often said hindu sastra,

 

very interesting.

can you please present us some quote of direct reference that we can actually verify that Srila Prabhupada referred to the Vaishnava canon as "Hindu shastra".

 

I need that reference for my work.

 

thank-you

[Guest guest]

 

Prabhupada used Hindu in different contexts, when talking generally he often said hindu sastra, however when talking on the absolute level, god is neither hindu or muslim etc, his followers are not under any designation except the servents of god. He gives the example that there is no such thing as different dharmas like hindu muslim christian as the utimate dharma is to love god. In another context he would call hinduism a dried up religion as a large section of so called hindus accept the caste system and believe non brahmana born westerners cant become brahamanas, others believe worshiping anything leads to the same goal wheteher god demigod, themselves or cockroach, others invent incarnations in the name of hinduism and a large section of hindus accept this nonsense which degrade so called hinduism further. So one person thinks that accepting all these concepts is hinduism another thinks it following the vedas. So even among hindus what constitutes a hindu isnt clear, let alone when preaching to westeners, therefore prabhupada gave the process of love of god as a simple science (which it is) not fused about petty names of what this process is called and not wanting to mix it with a hodge podge of ideas.

 

Depeneding on who your talking to you identify your selves in a certain way, if someone asks you who are you, to an acedemic you identify your self in a certain way, to a fellow national you may say your are from the same state, to a relative you may describe your relationship. Prabhupada generally spoke on the absolute level and spoke not on bodily designations, but those that want to speak or understand only this level we can identify our selves as men,women,indian,american,hindu,christian etc.

 

Christianity also has some big differences in their sects. The Catholics believe the Pope is the Apostolic succession of Christ's appointed leader on earth, Apostle Peter. All other Christian sects reject this.

 

The Calvinist Christians teach that God predestinates who will be saved and who will be damned. They teach only those who are predestined to be saved will be drawn toward Christ, and the rest God hardens their hearts so they can't see the truth of the gospel. Other Christian sects do not accept this teaching.

 

Many Gnostic Christians teach the god of the Hebrew Old Testament is a demigod and not the true God. They teach that one must go past the Old Testament demigod (demiurge) and his cohorts (the archons) to be freed from the reincarnation cycle. Other Christians sect reject these teachings, as well as the concept of reincarnation.

 

Then there are the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventists, the Arnold Murray disciples, the Ebionites, Armongstrongites, and many more groups. ALL of which consider themselves to be presenting the correct view of Christianity. Compound all this with the fact that Jesus never used the word Christian one time, and you have to ask yourself just "what is Christianity?" Still, Christianity is the name for the wide collection of beliefs and sects based off of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

 

Labels are helpful in communication and classification. In communication, words and labels are a neccesary evil. I tell people I am a Vaishnava, a Hindu, or a follower of the Vedic religion, based on the context and what I think will be the most helpful in helping the person I am communicating with, understand "what" I am speaking about.

[vijay]

 

Labels are helpful in communication and classification. In communication, words and labels are a neccesary evil. I tell people I am a Vaishnava, a Hindu, or a follower of the Vedic religion, based on the context and what I think will be the most helpful in helping the person I am communicating with, understand "what" I am speaking about.

 

I agree it depends on what the person thinks the best way is to get the message of krishna across, ultimately we are above labels as we are spirit souls, but have to use them in everyday life, some labels are nice and are useful to some and some labels seem to have a negative conatations and not useful for a particular purpose at a particular time. The main thing is to get the person back to his natural condition as a servent of krishna.

 

Ultimately we can even pollute legitimate labels in our own minds and the minds of others like 'vaishnava', 'iskcon', 'follower of krishna' if we get attached to them in a secular exclusive way as ultimately we are a humble servent of the lord. In places where iskcon has made too many mistakes it may be better to avoid that label when preaching at least for a while and preach using another tool. Ultimately whatever it takes to get one back to godhead is what should be utilised, anything else is just sentiment and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Neophyte minds will always be attached to labels until they see the bigger picture, which is a natural part of growing up.

 

I guess it gets more complicated as each label has its own set of dharmas prescribed,

being a man there is a ceratin dharma in the sastra that one follows,

being a householder there is another dharma,

being a teacher another

being a vaishnava means dedicating everything to the lord,

being a hindu unlike being a christian doesnt have any single authority so the comparison to christianity isnt solid. Christians accept christ and at least the new testiment of the bible. Hindu has no reference to any base like this. Hindus can accept the vedas or not, hindus can accept a god or not, to some foriegners can become brahmins to others not. To some hindu's hinduism is a metophorical myth to others its reality, some hindus have a system of philosophy that is atheistic and doesnt accept re-incarnation etc etc, however I agree in some situations this label is useful, but no way does it facilitate any indepth understanding about any philosophy, its a general term describing an intermix of traditions and cultures originating in a certain area.

 

The term is useful sometimes and counterproductive at other times when trying to help a person become god concious. The term is useful for others to create nationalist secular nation which also has its pros and cons, the term is useful for those trying to unite sects and create a somehow super philosophy which tries to capture everything (which in my opinon generally captures a superficial advaitic veiw).

Everything can be used nicely to the extent it can be, and discarded when its not useful in the lords plan.

[Guest guest]

Many Hindus want that Vaishnavas should identify themselves as "Hindu." Yet, the same Hindus will wax eloquent about how Hindus accept all gods as the same, all religions as different but equally valid paths, all forms of God are just temporary forms of some formless reality, etc. They can't seem to grasp that these ideas are not accepted by most orthodox Vaishnavas. So no wonder Vaishnavas tend to shy away from the term "Hindu," which has a special meaning these days that is advanced by the VHP and related organizations.

 

Now, as far as ISKCON being Hindu or not, consider: when talking philosophy, they are quick to say they are not Hindu. But, when one of their temples is being attacked and their people are being persecuted, and they need the support of the global community, then presto! Suddenly they are Hindu again.

[Guest guest]

This is a very good debate with many interesting points of view coming forth.

[Guest guest]

 

Now, as far as ISKCON being Hindu or not, consider: when talking philosophy, they are quick to say they are not Hindu. But, when one of their temples is being attacked and their people are being persecuted, and they need the support of the global community, then presto! Suddenly they are Hindu again.

 

A valid point, and I can see how some Hindus might be upset with this. Of course, when speaking philosophically, Iskcon devotees will also say that they are not Christian, Muslim, American, Indian, black, white, young, old, rich or poor... in other words, when preaching that we aren't these bodies, we preach that the soul has no material designations. That is part of the philosophy as presented in the Bhagavad Gita. However, on a more practical basis, I agree with others that in certain situations, calling ourselves "Hindus" may be appropriate, as an initial point of reference. If someone inquires further, then we can explain what "Vaishnava" means, and continue from there. Technically we aren't Hindus. But most Hindus seem to have a natural affinity for Krsna, so we shouldn't alienate them. Many Hindus who formerly had a mayavada concept of Krsna have now become devotees, accepting Him as Bhagavan, the adi purusa, after studying Vaishnava scriptures.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Now, as far as ISKCON being Hindu or not, consider: when talking philosophy, they are quick to say they are not Hindu. But, when one of their temples is being attacked and their people are being persecuted, and they need the support of the global community, then presto! Suddenly they are Hindu again.

 

Really?

Well, don't under estimate the Indian Vaishnavas.

They are not all so ready to be labeled as Hindu, when they know what is Vaishnavism.

 

I knew some Indian members in my day and most of them were more Vaishnava that they were "Hindu".

 

There are "Hindu" Indians and there are Vaishnava Indians.

 

Many, I would say most of the Indians that come to ISKCON temples are not "HIndus" - they are Vaishnavas.

 

Better Vaishnavas than a lot of "ISKCON" devotees!

[Guest guest]

 

Really?

Well, don't under estimate the Indian Vaishnavas.

They are not all so ready to be labeled as Hindu, when they know what is Vaishnavism.

 

I knew some Indian members in my day and most of them were more Vaishnava that they were "Hindu".

 

There are "Hindu" Indians and there are Vaishnava Indians.

 

Many, I would say most of the Indians that come to ISKCON temples are not "HIndus" - they are Vaishnavas.

 

Better Vaishnavas than a lot of "ISKCON" devotees!

 

Vaishnavism is the LARGEST Hindu denomination (made up of several sub-sects). Saivism is the second largest Hindu sect, then Smartism and Shaktism.

 

If we stopped counting Vaishnavism as a Hindu denomination, Hinduism would no longer be the world's 3rd largest religion. However, all world religious scholars agree Vaishnavisim is a Vedic sect. Therefore it is part of the sects which are classified as "Hindu", both the Indian Government and World Religion adherent census takers.

[Guest guest]

 

Hindus can accept the vedas or not

 

No they can't. Sects which reject the Vedas are no longer considered Hindu sects. Jains and Buddhists are not Hindu sects.

 

 

hindus can accept a god or not

 

If a person does not believe in Brahman, they no longer are Hindu. Buddhists reject Brahman, so they are not Hindu.

 

 

some hindus have a system of philosophy that is atheistic and doesnt accept re-incarnation etc etc

 

Those people are NOT Hindu.

 

The following are the statement of beliefs common to ALL True Hindu sects:

 

 

Nine Beliefs of Hinduism

 

1. Hindus believe in the divinity of the Vedas, the world's most ancient scripture, and venerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's word and the bedrock of Sanatana Dharma, the eternal religion which has neither beginning nor end.

 

2. Hindus believe in a one, all-pervasive Supreme Being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.

 

3. Hindus believe that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservation and dissolution.

 

4. Hindus believe in karma, the law of cause and effect by which each individual creates his own destiny by his thoughts, words and deeds.

 

5. Hindus believe that the soul reincarnates, evolving through many births until all karmas have been resolved, and moksha, spiritual knowledge and liberation from the cycle of rebirth, is attained. Not a single soul will be eternally deprived of this destiny.

 

6. Hindus believe that divine beings exist in unseen worlds and that temple worship, rituals, sacraments as well as personal devotionals create a communion with these devas and Gods.

 

7. Hindus believe that a spiritually awakened master, or satguru, is essential to know the Transcendent Absolute, as are personal discipline, good conduct, purification, pilgrimage, self-inquiry and meditation.

 

8. Hindus believe that all life is sacred, to be loved and revered, and therefore practice ahimsa, "noninjury."

 

9. Hindus believe that no particular religion teaches the only way to salvation above all others, but that all genuine religious paths are facets of God's Pure Love and Light, deserving tolerance and understanding.

[Guest guest]

[From post #25]

 

April 1967: "Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders, and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are ALL useless, dried-up

branches of the Vedic religion." -- ACBSP

 

Due to statements like this, not every denomination of Hinduism accepts ISKCON as part of the Hindu religion.

 

Therefore, the answer to the question "Is ISKCON Hindu?" depends upon who you ask.

[Guest guest]

QUESTION 1) CAN ISKCON BE CONSIDERED REALLY HINDU?

 

ANSWER: Why would that matter?

 

"The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form indeed marks the close of a living spiritual movement.

 

"The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dykes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances."

 

BSS Jan 1929 The Harmonist

 

What current is he talking about? The current that is in your spine: the life force. Lean on your own spine. "The Kingdom of God is ***within*** you!"

 

 

 

QUESTION #2) IS ISKCON REALLY KRSNA?

 

ANSWER: No. Krsna is a name for God; ISKCON is a 501 c 3 non-profit charitable organization incorporated in New York City for tax-exempt status.

 

 

 

QUESTION #3) IS ISKCON REALLY IN THE SPIRIT OF THE BHAG GITA?

This is a very complex question. ISKCON is a charitable organization.

ISKCON has alot of branches all over the world. ISKCON has a Board

of Directors. In the US there are specific guidelines you can use to

check whether or not any charity you are thinking of supporting is

living up to its mission.

 

First off, an IRS 501 c 3 non-profit organization is supposed to have a

mission statement. Do your research and find out what their stated mission

is and see if you feel they are fulfilling it at the local level and on the global level.

 

Next, check to see if they have been effectively fulfilling this mission over a long period of time. Find out when the organization was started and then ask to see Annual Reports for every year since the year of its incorporation, again

either at the local level or the global level.

 

Mission Statement, Annual Reports. Then see if you think if the results of your

findings are "in the spirit of the Bhagavad Gita". For example the Bhagavad Gita has guidelines for what is considered goodness, passion, and ignorance.

or sattva, rajas, and tamas. Perhaps you can use the Gita itself as the rubric

that you use to issue your own private rating for ISKCON.

 

For example if you were to invest in a Mutual Fund, you need to find out what

the mission statement of the Fund* is and then track its rate of return over a five, ten, 15, 20, 30 year period. Do you believe in the mission statement of

the fund? [*Does the Mutual Fund make its money from oil companies, arms dealers, tobacco corporations, and meat industries for example?]

 

So you have read the Bhagavad Gita. Then you issue your own report card on how well either your local or global ISKCON Center is living up to its Mission Statement and the rate of return to its shareholders.

 

If you think they are doing well in some areas perhaps you can participate in

ISKCON in the areas where you think they have earned an A on their report card that you give them on following their Mission Statement for 40 years.

 

Also within every ISKCON temple there is always at least one pure devotee. Her name is Tulasi Devi or the Sacred Basil. It would probably be safe for you to associate with Her. She is not "an organized church marking the close of a

genuine spiritual movement." - BSS

 

Also within every ISKCON temple there are some special people. They are called The Deities. A book called "Darshan: Seeing the Divine Image in India" by Diana Eck, Anima Books c 1985 might be a helpful academic adjunct for you to understand Their significance. They are not "the dykes and dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any...contrivances." -BSS

[vijay]

 

No they can't. Sects which reject the Vedas are no longer considered Hindu sects. Jains and Buddhists are not Hindu sects.

 

 

 

If a person does not believe in Brahman, they no longer are Hindu. Buddhists reject Brahman, so they are not Hindu.

 

 

 

http://www.answers.com/topic/carvaka

 

There are also others who claim to be hindu but dont believe in god, i believe its some mimamsa/sankya school of thought. Some of these schools believe that when you die there is no reincarnation or karma.

 

Bali hindus are considered hindus even though large portions dont actively belive in re-incarnation but some sort of ancestoral worship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_Hindu_Dharma

 

Im sure there is more.

 

You can find a whole load of hindus who may superficially accept the vedas, but actually believe they are myths that we can interpret our own meanings out of. Another set of hindus will call themselves hindus but belive in gurus and incarnations who are not accepted by the vedic literture as bonifide, neither from parampara nor have qualities of an incarnation neither the teachings. But again its fine as long as they call themselves hindu.

[Guest guest]

 

answers.com/topic/carvaka

 

That person was an atheist who happened to live in a Hindu dominated society. His philosophy was not part of ANY Hindu shastra. He was not Hindu.

 

 

 

There are also others who claim to be hindu but dont believe in god, i believe its some mimamsa/sankya school of thought. Some of these schools believe that when you die there is no reincarnation or karma.

 

They are not true Hindus, and should not be recognized. Even the Indian government put out a statement that states Hindu sects are to be recognized as those which believe in reincarnation, endless cycles of creation and destruction, and the Vedas.

 

 

Bali hindus are considered hindus even though large portions dont actively belive in re-incarnation but some sort of ancestoral worship

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agama_Hindu_Dharma

 

Wikipedia is not a good source of information. Go to the actual Balinese Hindu sites and you will see they believe in reincarnation as a fundamental belief.

 

The five fundamental beliefs of Balinese Hindus are:

 

1. Belief in the Supreme Being

 

2. Belief in the Atman (soul)

 

3. Belief in the judgment of Karma Pala, the law of cause and effect

 

4. Belief in Samsara (reincarnation)

 

5. Belief in Moksa (unity with God).

 

baliblog.com/travel-tips/hindu-dharma-balinese-belief-and-worship.html

 

 

You can find a whole load of hindus who may superficially accept the vedas, but actually believe they are myths that we can interpret our own meanings out of.

 

The Vedas are very esoteric books, not even all Brahmins understand their full meaning.

 

 

Another set of hindus will call themselves hindus but belive in gurus and incarnations who are not accepted by the vedic literture as bonifide, neither from parampara nor have qualities of an incarnation neither the teachings. But again its fine as long as they call themselves hindu.

 

now we are getting off track. This is not a thread to debate who is a true Guru.

[Guest guest]

Origins of the word Hindu

 

See also: Etymology of India

 

The origin of the word Hindu is still disagreed upon by historians and linguists. It is generally accepted as having originally been a Persian word for someone who lives around or beyond the Indus River, which is called Sindhu in Sanskrit, and meant any inhabitant of the Indian subcontinent, before the Partition of India. The Indus now flows the length of Pakistan and is locally referred to as "Deriya'e Sindh". One of Pakistan's provinces is also named Sindh.

 

In Persian and Arabic, the term "Hind" denotes the Indian subcontinent, and the term Hindu (Indu or Intu in China) is still used in some languages to denote a person from the region. A variant of the word was taken into old Greek, and lost the initial aspiration ('h') in modern Greek. This led to the Greek name of 'India'.

River Sindhu, Ladakh

Enlarge

River Sindhu, Ladakh

 

One interesting theory as regards the origin of term Hindu which is as follows. Ha(hi) - denotes the sun(hiranya?) and I(ee) denotes the moon(indu) and the land which was ruled by the suryavamsa(solar race) as well as the chandravamsa(lunar race) kings came to be called as Hindu.

 

An alternative explanation is that the word 'indu' originates from Rgveda with reference to a mythological plant juice offered for oblations, while the 'h' represents auspiciousness or delight, thus implying that one who propitiates by drinking soma is a hindu.[3]

 

Until about 19th century, the term Hindu implied a culture and ethnicity and not religion alone. So Hindus have adopted this term because "Hind" (India) is their motherland. The term some Hindus have used for their religious beliefs is Sanatan Dharma ("Eternal Dharma" - see also Dharma). When the British colonial government started taking a periodic census and established a unified legal system, the need arose to define what constitutes Hinduism as a religion, in order to compare it with the likes of Christianity or Islam. Since then, various definitions have been proposed by scholars like Bal Gangadhar Tilak, who defined it as a religion based on the Vedas, just as the Bible and the Qur'an are the basis of Christianity and Islam, respectively.

 

The old Persian definition of "Hindu" would club all people living in India into a single group called "Hindus". However, today all Indians are not called Hindus simply to be able to differentiate between adherants of different faiths, and also with respect to peoples' sentiments.

[edit]

 

Who is a Hindu?

Hinduism is the world's oldest existing religion. Shown here is a 1100-year-old Siva temple in Indonesia

Enlarge

Hinduism is the world's oldest existing religion. Shown here is a 1100-year-old Siva temple in Indonesia

 

See also: History of Hinduism

 

A Hindu is one who follows his or her own religion of Sva-Dharma, practices Bhakti (devotion) on any form of God (who is Brahman or creator of the universe), practices virtuous path of life believing in the concept of Karma for the purpose of Moksha. Sva - is the "self". Karma is the law of eternal onus of one's actions leading to balanced effects for all times to come. Moksha is the ultimate resolution of life and death cycle.

 

Some have proposed that a Hindu is one who believes in the Vedas ("Vaidik Dharma"). But this is a simplification. Not all Hindus believe in the Vedas; for example, the Lingayat people believe in non-vedic Agamas. It can be safely said that Hinduism is a way of life which has led to many civilized forms of religion.

 

Different scholars have given different definitions, but still disputes arise over who is a Hindu. One definition states that a Hindu is one who accepts the authority of the Vedas. When the British arrived, it was hard for them to see who clearly a Hindu was. Many other religions were practicing the same traditions, such as animal sacrifices to Kali. These other groups included Muslims and Sufis, Jains, Buddhists and even a few Parsis.

 

The colonial British government introduced the census as it is today, and for legal purposes set worded definitions and distinctions between populations that had lived interwoven for thousands of years.

 

Many Hindus identify the Brahma itself as Vishnu and believe that Vishnu Himself represents the Trinity and are known as Vaishnava; many others believe the Supreme Being is Shiva or Shankara and that He represents the Trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva Himself and are known as Shaiva; while yet others believe in the female Principle Shakti as the Supreme Energy or Force for life (birth and preservation) and destruction unified, and are called Shakta. In Vaishnavism and Shaivism, Shakti is God's Unified Energy (Power) personified. The fourth major group, the Smarta, are non-sectarian Hindus that call the Trinity and Shakti the Supreme One Brahman, which manifests into personal forms of God, such as Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva (also known as Mahesh). However, no barrier or distinction or rivalry of any nature exists between any of these - historically, Hinduism is known for its religious tolerance and there is no friction whatsoever between these groups, who respect each other's practices. Each naturally respects all incarnations of the God, only choosing to see the Supreme in one particular form. Many follow a blend of all three beliefs and this is by far the most common form of religion for Hindus, with a mix of Shaivism, Shaktism and Vaishnavism as well as other reform movements. In most Hindu temples one will find Shiva lingam together with vaishnava aspects of worship.

 

Because the foundation of Hinduism, the Rig Veda says that there are many paths to the Lord, any God may be worshipped for the achievement of a union with the Supreme, Moksha. In certain sections, contradictions appear such as depicting Vishnu and the Lord, while other sections maintain that another spirit is God. The contradictions are believed to come from the same truth because, for Hindus as well as others such as Zoroastrians or Parsis, God is beyond conception, beyond imagination. God is believed to be both impersonal (without qualities) and yet transcendent (with qualities) by Hindus.

 

Hinduism, especially its history and heritage, is vitally important to the political identity and expression of India and other countries' Hindus.

[edit]

 

Hallmarks of Hindu society

[edit]

 

Ethnic and cultural fabric

The Ganga is considered as the most sacred river by Hindus

Enlarge

The Ganga is considered as the most sacred river by Hindus

 

See also: Indo-Aryans, Aryan Invasion Theory, Demographics of India, History of India, and Out of India Theory

 

Hinduism has one of the most genetically and ethnically diverse body of adherents in the world. For some, it is hard to classify Hinduism as a religion, as the framework, symbols, leaders and books of reference that make up a typical religion are not uniquely identified in the case of Hinduism. However, it is the world's oldest religion which inspired others and is seen as the mother of all religions just as India is seen as the father of all civilizations. Most commonly it can be seen as a "way of life" which gives rise to many civilized forms of religions. Hinduism, its religious doctrines, traditions and observances are very typical and inextricably linked to the culture and demographics of India.

 

Then Hinduism is not just a religion; it is also a philosophy and a culture ("Sanatan Parampara," the "Eternal Tradition.")

 

Large tribes and communities of indigenous origins, are also closely linked to the earliest synthesis and formation of Hindu civilization. Peoples of East Asian roots living in the states of north eastern India and Nepal were also a part of the earliest Hindu civilization. Immigration and settlement of peoples from Central Asia and peoples of Indo-Greek heritage have brought their own influence on Hindu society. Some of the staunchest defenders of Hindu India against Muslim invaders were the Rajputs of modern Rajasthan, who were originally from Central Asia.

A Hindu temple in Bartlett, Illinois (USA).

Enlarge

A Hindu temple in Bartlett, Illinois (USA).

 

The deities of the Indus Valley Civilization have uncanny resemblances to Hindu gods such as Shiva. Worship of Lord Vishnu also, could be an ancient indigenous practice and the scarce mention in Vedas could be a later inclusion. The roots of Hinduism in southern India, and amongst tribal and indigenous communities is just as ancient and fundamentally contributive to the foundations of the religious and philosophical system.

 

Ancient Hindu kingdoms arose and spread the religion and traditions across South East Asia, particularly Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodia and what is now central Vietnam. A form of Hinduism particularly different from Indian roots and traditions is practised in Bali, Indonesia, where Hindus form 90% of the population. Indian migrants have taken Hinduism and Hindu culture to South Africa, Fiji, Mauritius and other countries in and around the Indian Ocean, and in the nations of the West Indies and the Caribbean.

 

Many Europeans, Africans and Americans have adopted spiritual and religious exercises inspired by Hinduism in North America, Western Europe and Southern Africa. The ISKCON is a sect of the devotees of Krishna, specifically, Gaudiya Vaishnavism, mainly in the United States but spreading across the world, embracing people and working in countries completely unassociated with India.

[edit]

 

Linguistics of Hinduism

Shown here is a scene from the epic Battle of Kurukshetra

Enlarge

Shown here is a scene from the epic Battle of Kurukshetra

 

from the Mahabharata.

 

See also: Sanskrit

 

Although the Vedas, the Mahabharata and the Ramayana have been written in the ancient language of Sanskrit, Hinduism has several important religious and philosophical works written in other ancient languages like Tamil, Pali, Prakrit, and modern languages like Hindi, Punjabi, Malayalam, Telugu, Kannada, Gujarati, Marathi, Oriya and Bengali.

 

The approximately 950 million Hindus who live in the Indian subcontinent are the people who speak the 18 official languages of India, Tamil in Sri Lanka,Singapore and Malaysia, Nepali in Nepal, Balinese in Indonesia some 5-10 more unofficial languages and over 1,000 dialects.

 

Millions of Hindus are well-versed with English. Many of modern discourses, essays and analysis of Hindu religion and society, and re-telling of its greatest epics, are published in the English language.

[edit]

 

Ceremonies, observances and pilgrimage

 

Hinduism is also very diverse in the religious ceremonies performed by its adherents for different periods and events in life, and for death.

[edit]

 

Initiation

 

Main article: Initiation in Hinduism

 

Many Hindus, may perform coming of age ceremonies like Upanayana or Janoy or 'Bratabandha'. These ceremonies have variants depending on the caste, the culture and the country.

 

The Upanayana is akin to the Jewish B'nai Mitzvah. It is very similar to the Navjot ceremony of the Zorastrians. In a ceremony administered by a priest, a coir string, known as Janoy, is hung from around a young boy's left shoulder to his right waist line for Brahmins and from right shoulders to left waistline by Kshatriyas. The ceremony varies from region to community, and includes reading from the Vedas and special mantras and shlokas.

 

Young females (prepubescent until married) do not have similar ritual passage as young males. However, some young Hindu females, especially those from southern India, may follow annual Monsoon Austerity Ritual of Purification by not eating cooked food for one or two weeks, depending on age of child. This is known as "Goryo" or "Goriyo".

 

Generally speaking, Hindus are free to join an order or inner circle, and once they have joined it they must submit to its rites and way of living. But this type of joining is voluntary and has the possibility of leaving the order at any time without serious objection from fellow followers as long as one says and does things without associating them with the order which he or she has left. It is a social form of co-option of life style. There is a Sanskrit saying "Dharmo rakshati rashitah.." which translates to "religion protects those who protect it.." meaning religion is with the believer as long as the person believes in it. The initiation (diksa), a sort of purification or consecration involving a transformation of the aspirant's personality, is regarded as a complement to, or even a substitute for, the previous initiation ceremony rite of consecration that preceded the Vedic sacrifice in ancient India; in later and modern Hinduism, the initiation of a layman by his guru (spiritual guide) into a religious sect. In the soma sacrifices of the Vedic period, the lay sacrificer, after bathing, kept a daylong (in some cases up to a yearlong) silent vigil inside a special hut in front of a fire.

[edit]

 

New Year

 

Unlike most other cultures, New Year is celebrated as a festival in India. Many regions have different calendars and some starting in March while others at the time of Diwali, the festival of lights in autumn. New Year is celebrated at different times of the year by people of different states. That is people from Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Maharashtra states celebrate New Year on the same day, but people from Tamil Nadu celebrate the New Year at different time (April 14). The names of the new year vary too. For example Kannada & Telugu people call new year Ugadi while Tamil people call their new year as Varusha Pirappu. People from other northern states celebrate Holi as their New Year day which is first day of first month Chaitra according to Hindu calendar. The role of prayer is very crucial in the hindu religion as it becomes part of there everyday life. A hindu may prayer up to 5 times a day. A typical hindu would know about 15-20 different prayers, this is because of the different ceremonies celebrated eg, when someone is born they will say a life giving prayer. The life giving prayer is also said if someone is dying.

[edit]

 

Fast

 

Fasting is very common among most Hindus. They Fast on certain days of the week based on their belief and to appease certain deities. Some fast on Mondays to appease Siva, where as some fast on Saturdays to appease Shani similarly some fast on Fridays to penance in the name of goddess Laxmi or Santoshi. Most fasting Hindus abstain from eating meat and only live on fruits and milk. Some people refrain from using edible salts in the preparation of the meal and have it only one time on the day. There is a month called Shravan or Savan when Hindus fast for the whole month and abstain from eating any form of meat. Also they fast during the holy days like Ganesh Chaturthi (Chauth), Shivratri, Ram Navami and Navaratri. Fasting is seen as a form of penance (tapasya) or alternatively as a mean to develop a close bond with the Supreme Being.

[edit]

 

Marriage

 

Main article: Marriage in Hinduism

 

Wedding ceremonies and rituals vary in Hinduism. Most Hindu parents look for a prospective match for their children from their own community or caste. The ritual of matching the prospective's jathakam or janampatri with the help of a holy priest is also widely practised by many Hindus. Modern day couples usually approve each other before getting the elders of the family approve their 'arranged' marriage. The important difference between a Hindu marriage and other types of marriage is that, Hindu marriage is a 3-party contract, as much as it is a 2-party contract in the western civilization. The third party that needs to approve the marriage is essentially the elders of the family representing the interest of the clan. In todays India, with the social evolution, the approvals of elders and family are slowly becoming a formality, Also, the marriages between different community and casts are getting quite common and frequent.

 

Hindu marriage ceremonies are very colorful and elaborate. Families of the bride and the groom hold numerous festitivities to celebrate the wedding. Saptapadi is an important ritual performed during the wedding in which the bride and the groom circumambulate a sacred fire, known as agni, seven times. As the inheritance of the family wealth was by the males only, girls who would move out to live with another family after marriage, were given a fair share of the family wealth as dowry. But with the modernization of Hindu society, some eligible bachelors started to see this as a demandable contribution from the bride's father. The practice of demanding a dowry is still common and predominant in some parts of India and often bride's family or the bride gets harassed by the groom's family for this. Dowry formed an integral part of Hindu marriage until it was made illegal by the Indian government in 1961. Dowry is legal if it represents "stri-dhana" i.e. a girl's share of the parents' wealth, given voluntarily by the parents. In some parts of the Indian society, this dowry system is getting abolished and considered as a shameful act.

[edit]

 

Pilgrimage

The largest religious gathering on Earth. [1][2] Around 70 million Hindus from around the world participated in Kumbh Mela at one of the Hindu Holy city Prayaga (India).

Enlarge

The largest religious gathering on Earth. [1][2] Around 70 million Hindus from around the world participated in Kumbh Mela at one of the Hindu Holy city Prayaga (India).

 

Many Hindus make pilgrimages to the holy shrines (known as Tirthas). Hindu holy shrines include the abode of Shiva, Mount Kailash in Tibet, Shiva's lingam in Amarnath, Anantnag, Rameshwaram, and Kedarnath; the holy cities of Haridwar, Dwarka, Prayaga, Mathura, Tirumala, Tirupati, Kashi, and Ayodhya. Goddess Durga's holy shrine in Vaishno Devi attracts thousands of devotees every year. Hundreds of millions of Hindus annually visit holy rivers such as the Ganges ("Ganga" in Sanskrit) and temples near them, wash and bathe themselves to purify their sins, make sacrifices and win pivous credits.

 

The Kumbha Mela (the Great Fair) is a gathering of between 10 to 20 million Hindus upon the banks of the holy rivers, as periodically ordained in different parts of India by Hinduism's priestly leadership. The most famous is at the confluence of the Ganga and Yamuna in Uttar Pradesh which is known as "Sangam". It is regarded as the largest gathering of humanity on Earth.

[edit]

 

Death

 

Upon the death of a Hindu person, his or her body is ceremonially bathed and wrapped in clean, mostly white khadi cloth. The families often dress their departed relative in their best clothes, but maintain an emphasis on less color.

 

At the ceremony of cremation all mourners must wear only white clothes. In India, especially northern India, white is the color of mourning. In modern times, dull colored clothes, shirts and pants are deemed acceptable.

 

An attending priest conducts the ceremony, purifying the body and pyre by sprinkling holy water and continuously singing or chanting religious hymns or songs. The body is to be set alight only by the eldest male child of the deceased, or the closest male relative. However, in modern society women are asserting their right as children and/or closest relative of the deceased to cremate their loved ones. In many cases, this is increasingly being accepted.

 

Hindus in India are cremated upon open grounds upon wooden pyres, though the use of cremation chambers is increasing in popularity owing to the scarcity of wood and lack of exposure. The ashes of the person's remains are gathered and placed in a pot, which may be ritually immersed in any of Hinduism's holy rivers by the family with an attending priest. However, if one is unable to reach a Hindu holy river, it is best to find a river or body of water that flows into the ocean. If Ganga water (or water from any holy river) is available in sealed copper pots, water is either poured into the mouth of the deceased, or mixed with the ashes following cremation, if it is not available, holy water prepared by priests is poured into the mouths of the deceased. It is accepted that the ashes of the deceased will be immersed within 3 days. If it is not done within this time frame, additional rituals must be carried out. However these procedures are not concrete, and may vary from region to region.

 

The practice of cremation is not universal among Hindus. Hindus of various regions and castes may bury their dead as well, as per their families tradition. However, many prefer cremation in comparison to burial, even if burial is the common practice of the family.

[edit]

 

Religion for the common Hindu

Icons, also known as murtis, play a crucial role in Hinduism. Shown here is a 10th-century temple in Khajuraho depicting Hindu icons

Enlarge

Icons, also known as murtis, play a crucial role in Hinduism. Shown here is a 10th-century temple in Khajuraho depicting Hindu icons

 

See also: Yoga, Vedic astrology, Bhagavad Gita, and Ramayana

 

To all Hindus, the Vedas are the main source of religious social and religious practices in Hindu, and indeed Indian society.

 

The Puranas are a wide collection of religious treatises, biographies and stories on the historical, mythological and religious characters in Hindu folklore, classic literature and sacred scriptures. There are often the source of popular Hindu folk tales and religious lessons.

 

Yoga is an important connection to a Hindu to his religious and historical heritage. The art of spiritual and physical exercises are a distinguished native tradition pursued by millions of Hindus worldwide.

 

Indian Vedic astrology is important to the conduct of any of life's important events such as marriage, applying for a post or admission, buying a house or starting a new business. To millions of Hindus, the kundali is an invaluable possession that charts the course of life for a man or a woman from the time of his birth, all ascertained by Vedic mathematics and astrology.

 

Perhaps the most popular Hindu scripture is the Mahabharata, the holy war between good and evil. Krishna's discourse to the warrior prince Arjuna, known as the Bhagavad Gita and contained in the Mahabharata is the guide book on life for the common Hindu. It is the source of divine guidance and inspiration, where the reader learns to interpret Krishna's teachings in the personal and worldly contexts of life. Most Hindus consider this book as the main source of religious teaching.

 

To hundreds of millions of Hindus, Rama is more than just an incarnation of the Supreme, or simply a just king of Ayodhya. He is the still living, thriving soul and identity of real Hinduism. Rama is the image of Hinduism, the Perfect Man, its conscience and undying hope of deliverance.

 

The doctrines of moksha by the diligent discharge of personal, social and religious duty is the corner stone of the hindu society. By following one's duty (Swa-Dharma) one gains merit and when the process is completed; a union with the Godhead and cessation of the cycle of birth and death. Dereliction of duty will result in all sorts of misfortunes, including birth in a lower level in the social hierarchy. This is a strong motivation to stick to the right path of human nature. Commonly this swa-dharma or varna is misundersstood as caste, the class identity in Hindu society. Varna is by a soul's karma while Jat or caste is simply by birth and not necessarily in a person's nature. So it is important to follow a person's nature towards and seek out their duty.

[edit]

 

Conclusion

 

* Foundation: Rig Veda

* Pantheon: Brahman (in any or many form)

* Goal: Moksha

* Official Language: Sanskrit

* Canon: Shastra (Vedas + complementaries to the Vedas)

* Prayer: Gayatri Mantra/Om Jai Jagdish Hare

 

Dogma: In Hinduism, a person sees God in many forms and understands that any form of God can be worshipped to achieve moksha, the union with God. Karma is also practiced to achieve moksha. God is believed to have three aspects; to create (Brahmaa), to sustain (Vishnu) and to destroy (Shiva.) This triad is represented by the AUM icon. This triad also is known as Sanatan. Sanatan also denoted both God and souls as eternal. This religion is hence the Sanatan Dharma and is believed to have always existed. Furthermore, God is believed to be the protector of this religion.

 

Hinduism is pantheistic because it sees that everything is God. It is henotheistic because it believes that there are many souls who became deities or Devas due the blessings of God. It is monotheistic because it believes that even the Devas are parts and parcels of Paramatma.

 

The Sanatan Dharma is also known by many names as it expands to many peoples. A popular name, usually used by Hindu reformers is Arya Dharma. Another popular name is Vaidik Dharma because it is founded by the Vedas and focuses on the Vedic way of life. It is called Sat Dharma by a few, meaning also "eternal religion." In the Mahabharata there is a chapter called the Mokshdharma. Because Hinduism is believed by its disciples to lead to Moksha, it is called by the name. It is also known to a few as Atma Dharma meaning that it is the focuses on the salvation of the soul. It is also called Jaiva Dharma meaning the same.

[Guest guest]

I just watched a dvd from ISKCON productions called "God's Competitor".. a Hare Krishna Swami was being interviewed on some talk show in Canada. The Talk Show Host was going on and on about how Hare Krishnas are some new cult, that is brainwashing people. He compared the Hare Krishnas to the Moonies.

 

The Swami clarified that the Hare Krishna religion was based on the ancient Vedic religion and millions of Hindus had the same beliefs. The minute he used the word Hindu, the host goes.. "Oh so you are Hindus?" he seemed shocked to know the Hare Krishna religion was associated with the major world religion of Hinduism! You could tell in his voice that the word Hindu held more weight to him, than what he thought was some new sect (the Hare Krishna sect).

 

I believe Hare Krishnas have made a huge mistake by distancing themselves from the title Hindu, and this has caused Hare Krishnas to be looked upon as a new religious cult. Everyone knows Hinduism is an ancient religion, so they will not label those who call themselves Hindus as cultists. But because many Hare Krishnas refuse to call themselves Hindu, and people associate their sect with crazy antics in airports (and not the ancient Hindu religion), they are not as respected in the international community, as those who say they belong to major world religions.

 

I am very thankful I am part of a Vaishnava sect and have a Guru who is not afraid to say we are a Hindu sampradaya to the international community. In interaction in the 3D world and on interfaith discussion forums, I always get more respect and people willing to listen to me when I say I follow the Hindu religion, than if I were to say I am a part of a sect they regard as a new age/neo eastern religious movement.

 

Remember, we want people to listen to our message about Bhakti Yoga.. and we will not get them to listen, if they think we are part of some psuedo-cult. When they know we are part of an ancient tradition, it holds more weight in their minds, than any neo-religious movement.

[vijay]

One of your definitions of a hindu and the governements definition of a hindu is that they accept the vedas as ultimate authority. And your definition is they believe in a god. According to the indian law at least jains still come under hinduism although they dont believe in the vedas.

 

 

1. Hindus believe in the divinity of the Vedas, the world's most ancient scripture, and venerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's word and the bedrock of Sanatana Dharma, the eternal religion which has neither beginning nor end.

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism)

(http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/690490.cms)

 

Officially, there are no bars for anyone to be a hindu, and anyone who proclaims himself a Hindu is a Hindu. Legally, according to clause 2(b) of article 25 of indian constiturion<SUP class=reference id=_ref-3>[4]</SUP> Sikh, Jain and Buddh are also construed as a subsect of Hinduism, i.e. for example, if they wish to register their marriage, they shall do so under Hindu Marriage Act or Special Marriage Act

 

 

There are atheistic movements in hinduism,

Nastika

 

In Hindu philosophy, there were three schools of thoughts commonly referred to as Nastiks. They were Jainism, Buddhism and Carvaka for rejecting the doctrine of Vedas. In Hindu philosophy, Nastika referred to the non-belief of Vedas rather than non-belief of creationist God. Although, all the Nastiqa schools of thoughts were also athiests as they lacked the place for creationist god in their basic philosophies. Carvaka, a athiestic school of thought of Hinduism, traces its origins to 600 BCE. Carvaka philosophy appears to have died out some time after 1400 CE. Buddhism and Jainism also have their origins before 300 BCE.

[edit]

 

Astik athiesm

 

Amongst the Astik schools of thoughts, Purva Mimamsa and Samkhya<SUP class=reference id=_ref-2>[3]</SUP> were known to be athiests, as there was no place for creationist God in their beliefs. They are considered Astiks as they accepted the doctrine of Vedas. It is however notable that the Mimamsa school of thought turned thiestic later.

[edit]

 

 

Prominent personalities

 

There have been many prominent personalities who espoused athiesm and Hinduism at the same time. Well known personality, Veer savarkar, who was president of Hindu Mahasabha was an athiest<SUP class=reference id=_ref-4>[5]</SUP>. He is credited for developing a Hindu nationalist political ideology he termed as Hindutva (Hinduness).

 

What the governments opinion, your opinions and the RSS's opinion on what a hindu is differs.

Take a look at the is jainism hindu debate where jains now want a seperate legal identity. The BJP and RSS seem to have a different view on what makes a hindu which keeps changing.

http://voiceofdharma.com/books/wiah/ch7.htm

 

Who's view is the correct one, your giving me a nice clear definnition but what about the other points of view that have been debated for the last 200 years?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu

Until about 19th century, the term Hindu implied a culture and ethnicity and not religion alone. So Hindus have adopted this term because "Hind" (India) is their motherland. The term some Hindus have used for their religious beliefs is Sanatan Dharma ("Eternal Dharma" - see also Dharma). When the British colonial government started taking a periodic census and established a unified legal system, the need arose to define what constitutes Hinduism as a religion, in order to compare it with the likes of Christianity or Islam. Since then, various definitions have been proposed by scholars like Bal Gangadhar Tilak, who defined it as a religion based on the Vedas, just as the Bible and the Qur'an are the basis of Christianity and Islam, respectively.

The old Persian definition of "Hindu" would club all people living in India into a single group called "Hindus". However, today all Indians are not called Hindus simply to be able to differentiate between adherants of different faiths, and also with respect to peoples' sentiments.

 

Who is a Hindu?

 

 

 

 

A Hindu is one who follows his or her own religion of Sva-Dharma, practices Bhakti (devotion) on any form of God (who is Brahman or creator of the universe), practices virtuous path of life believing in the concept of Karma for the purpose of Moksha. Sva - is the "self". Karma is the law of eternal onus of one's actions leading to balanced effects for all times to come. Moksha is the ultimate resolution of life and death cycle.

Some have proposed that a Hindu is one who believes in the Vedas ("Vaidik Dharma"). But this is a simplification. Not all Hindus believe in the Vedas; for example, the Lingayat people believe in non-vedic Agamas. It can be safely said that Hinduism is a way of life which has led to many civilized forms of religion.

Different scholars have given different definitions, but still disputes arise over who is a Hindu. One definition states that a Hindu is one who accepts the authority of the Vedas. When the British arrived, it was hard for them to see who clearly a Hindu was. Many other religions were practicing the same traditions, such as animal sacrifices to Kali. These other groups included Muslims and Sufis, Jains, Buddhists and even a few Parsis.

The colonial British government introduced the census as it is today, and for legal purposes set worded definitions and distinctions between populations that had lived interwoven for thousands of years.

 

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Another set of hindus will call themselves hindus but belive in gurus and incarnations who are not accepted by the vedic literture as bonifide, neither from parampara nor have qualities of an incarnation neither the teachings. But again its fine as long as they call themselves hindu. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

now we are getting off track. This is not a thread to debate who is a true Guru.

 

I dont think its off track, You have so many incarnations of kalki and sai and others floating about, they use some verses to prove they are god like yada yada hi dharamasya from the gita, and then their philosophy is accepted above even the vedas by the followers, only by lip service are they followers of veda. The will chant mantras not in the vedas, worship a god thats suppose to be the source of all gods thats not mentioned in the vedas and are still accepted as hindu for so-called lip-service veneration of the vedas. (for some this is a nice feature of fluidity of so-called hinduism)

 

My point is its not as simple as your making it out to be to define a hindu, people have been debating whats a hindu for hundreds of years and still in a process of figuring it out. We all have our opinions of what it is.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate the very scholarly post, vijay. It increased my appreciation for the beautifully complex and wide range of diversity extant in Hinduism.

 

I also appreciated learning how the Indian government defines a Hindu.

Thanks!

 

 

As an Indian national, how do you feel about ethically converted Western-bodied Hindus who have conversion certificates* trying to get into temples in India for Deity darshana and are kicked out because they are non-Hindu?

 

*Vratyastoma = an ancient Hindu Conversion rite described fully in the Tandya Brahmana. A statement signed by a guru or priest confirming that

one has taken part in the conversion rituals [samskaras] to Hinduism.

[vijay]

 

I appreciate the very scholarly post, vijay. It increased my appreciation for the beautifully complex and wide range of diversity extant in Hinduism.

 

I also appreciated learning how the Indian government defines a Hindu.

Thanks!

 

 

As an Indian national, how do you feel about ethically converted Western-bodied Hindus who have conversion certificates* trying to get into temples in India for Deity darshana and are kicked out because they are non-Hindu?

 

*Vratyastoma = an ancient Hindu Conversion rite described fully in the Tandya Brahmana. A statement signed by a guru or priest confirming that

one has taken part in the conversion rituals [samskaras] to Hinduism.

 

Most of that post was copy and paste from the links I posted, I havent got the ability to write in a scholorly way.

 

I personally dont feel that you need any certificate to worship god, whether you are western or indian. Its funny how an indian-hindu who may be eating meat drinking not have a clue about hinduism etc is allowed inside a temple but a western bodied person who is worshipping the lord with his heart and following principles is denied access. Best thing to do is educate people in real god conciosness and not label conciosness as labels change.

[vijay]

 

Remember, we want people to listen to our message about Bhakti Yoga.. and we will not get them to listen, if they think we are part of some psuedo-cult. When they know we are part of an ancient tradition, it holds more weight in their minds, than any neo-religious movement

 

I agree in situations where this label helps then fine.

If you have a read through prabhupadas conversations when he was talking to people especially proffesors he avoided the term hindu as it brings about a whole load of other baggage in people minds as its defined in different ways in peoples heads especially in the west. He used the terms santana dharma, eternal religion of the soul. It doesnt matter if one proclaims himself a practitioner of any religion, the laws of god are binding on all. Just like the laws of the state are binding on all no matter what religion they are. In the same sense the philosophical laws in the gita are applicable to all whether they are hindu, christian or muslim, you dont have to convert to chant mahamantra, take up the philosophy and follow the principles. You can remain a christian and chant gods names and follow the 4 principles of being vegi, no intoxication,no illicit sex, and no gambiling. A muslim and a jew can do the same. Prabhupadas mission was to give people real god conciousness, no matter what they label themselves. If they then want to label themsleves hindu fine if the want to continue to use the christian label as one may accept the bible also then thats also fine as long as one is following the principles of bhakti yoga.

 

The main thing is to bring people to God conciousness if a particular temporary word/label helps to get the message in their minds then use it. One may be a hindu this life a muslim in another a christian in another, the aim of all is to be god concious, if a label helps in that cause then use it. If its counterproductive and people get attached to labels and not god conciousness then its counterproductive, as we've seen is the tendancy in many religions.

[Guest guest]

Stop letting anti-Hindu western scholars and the secular Indian government define what the term Hindu means. Almost all books in the libraries on Hinduism are filled with false conclusions and biased, by the likes of Max Muller type scholarship. The western orientalists have tried to "define" Hinduism in a certain way, and many Indians actually have accepted their conclusions. Especially the Smartas.

 

For the record Buddhists are NOT a Hindu sect. Go to lioncity.net/buddhism the largest buddhist forum on the web, and tell them buddhism is a Hindu sect. You will be laughed into oblivion.

 

Be PROUD to be Hindu.. and stop letting anti-Hindu defamers, define the term. Hindus themselves must define the Term, as one who worships the Supreme Lord described in the Vedic scriptures, and practices the ancient religion of Hindu-stan/Bharat (Sanatana Dharma). This has NOTHING to do with RACE, as India is the motherland of mankind, and Bharat is to be a spiritual Lighthouse to the world. Anyone who is a Hindu has one common mother: Bharata-Mata. This is where God himself has descended on this earth planet, to spread dharma. Hindu is a name that identifies us with this holy land.

[Guest guest]

from my experience in ISKCON, the Indian congregation around ISKCON temples are generally referred to as the "Indian community" by most of the Indians and temple devotees alike.

 

I don't remember the Indian congregation of any ISKCON temple being referred to as the "Hindu community".

[Guest guest]

All new religious movements in the west are viewed as cults, and organizations that specialize in deprogramming people, try to get people who have joined these groups with the help of their relatives out from these sects. No one in the west had heard the name Hare Krishna before the 1960/70s. They had heard of Hinduism, since it is the world's 3rd largest religion. So when people started telling their relatives they were joining a religion called the Hare Krishnas, they were thought to be joining some new religious cult. This created an unbelievable amount of confusion, because Hare Krishnas were not prepared to say.."no, our sect is not a cult.. it's part of Hinduism, the 3rd largest religion."

 

Over time, Hare Krishnas realized that they would have to admit they were a Hindu sect in public relations, because the general population does not respect sects that are not part of major world religions. Most are simply not educated enough about eastern sects, to realize the Hare Krishna sect was associated with the ancient Vaishnava Hindu sect. Nor do most in the west know anything about the differences between the Vaishnava/Saivite/Smarta sects. Hindu = a religion in India that believes in reincarnation, and talks about exotic things like Third Eyes, Chakras, etc. Other than the basics, most don't even know much about Hindu beliefs. But they do know Hinduism is an ancient religion. So Hinduism is not looked at as the modern invention of a charismatic leader, like most cults are viewed. Thus, many Hare Krishnas have admitted they are Hindus in public relations, like we see this happened with the Russian Temple controversy..

[Guest guest]

the fact is that "Hare Krishna" is a yoga system.

It is NOT a religion.

Religions are faith-based and do not have a scientific basis.

 

Bhakti-yoga is a spiritual science.

It is not some sentmental faith-based religion.

 

Is YOGA a religion?

NO!

Yoga is a spiritual science and should not be lumped in to some religious faith.

 

Faith is the beginning of Krishna consciousness, but if faith does not grow into the scientific practice of yoga, then that faith does not really produce any result.

 

Bhakti-yoga, like all other yoga processes, is a spiritual science.

 

the major religions of the world are not scientific as is the yoga process.

 

The Krishna consciousness movement should not be reduced down to a religion that is just another fanatic faith based sentiment devoid of a scientific process.

 

As Srila Prabhupad sub-titled the Nectar of Devotion as The complete SCIENCE of Bhakti-yoga, that most definitely establishes bhakti-yoga as a science apart from sentimental faith based religion.

 

Maybe Christianity is a religion, Islam is a religion or Judaism is a religion, but Bhakti-yoga is a spiritual science.

 

Unfortunately, many people would like to promote Krishna consciousness as a religion, but it is not.