What is instinct?

[shvu]

 

No devotee is afraid of science.But why are the so-called scientists afraid of recognizing the Supreme Scientist?

Maitreya,

 

What supreme scientist? The scientist goes by proof. Where is the proof that there is a creator, except in religious books? if there is proof discovered, the scientist will be the first one to acknowledge God.

 

With due respect, if it were not for the Bible or Iskcon, you would have no such notion. The scientist says evolution, the religious books say God. You choose to believe the latter. Devotees get into a quizzing mode when dealing with rational explanations, but yet are ready to believe in any sanskrit book without further thought, if it looks old enough.

 

Science is still in its infancy and has a long way to go. With time, more facts will be discovered and things will become more clear.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest guest]

>> Satyaraj:

You believe that Roswell bakwas? What books have you been reading?

 

No, I'm not worried with this subject matter. But we have some friends in net who are ufologists, and they sent us an e-mail asking what is the Vedic point of view of this discovery and we sent them these same answers. Can you help them with some better explanation?

 

[Maitreya]

 

Originally posted by shvu:

Maitreya,

 

What supreme scientist? The scientist goes by proof. Where is the proof that there is a creator, except in religious books? if there is proof discovered, the scientist will be the first one to acknowledge God.

 

I see proof of a supierior intelligence everywhere shvu.Some scientist do acknowledge God.So why do you take theside of the atheist scientist of the theist.It may be your own personal bias.I do acknowledge that I have only learned anything by hearing from a superior source.

 

With due respect, if it were not for the Bible or Iskcon, you would have no such notion. The scientist says evolution, the religious books say God. You choose to believe the latter. Devotees get into a quizzing mode when dealing with rational explanations, but yet are ready to believe in any sanskrit book without further thought, if it looks old enough.

 

I do choose to accept intelligent design,but not blindly.This computer did not just manifest, it was intelligently designed.Where is you microcosmic example showing that something just self generates?

 

Science is still in its infancy and has a long way to go. With time, more facts will be discovered and things will become more clear.

 

Post dated blank check.That shows you are the one operating under blind faith.

 

MC

 

 

[shvu]

 

I see proof of a supierior intelligence everywhere shvu.Some scientist do acknowledge God.So why do you take theside of the atheist scientist of the theist.It may be your own personal bias.I do acknowledge that I have only learned anything by hearing from a superior source.

I see such proof nowhere. Not that I am right. I am just saying that there is a different way of looking at things. Some people say "Look at a flower bloom. That is proof that there is a God". How is that proof?

 

I do choose to accept intelligent design,but not blindly.This computer did not just manifest, it was intelligently designed.Where is you microcosmic example showing that something just self generates?

Not self-generation, but evolution. And there is ample proof for evolution to no longer call it a theory.

 

Post dated blank check.That shows you are the one operating under blind faith.

Not blind. Based on whatever discoveries have been made so far, I am making a projection. On the other hand believing a book because it is old qualifies as blind faith. To believe that there is a permanent place called heaven/Goloka and we can go there if we follow some laid down rules, is blind faith. The concept of a hidden God who will not show himself [one wonders why] is blind. Again, this is just another way of looking at the same thing. Just like you choose to put your faith in the religious books, one can put his faith in science.

 

Cheers

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The scientist goes by proof.

Doesn't that belong in the jokes forum?

 

[shvu]

 

Doesn't that belong in the jokes forum?

 

Now, this is a good joke.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

 

The Srimad Bhagavatan , in the narrative of King Purañjana, states that samadhi is to be considered as the 4th state of conscience:

 

1st) awaken state

2nd) dream state

3rd) deep sleeping state

4th) ultra-conscience, or samadhi.

 

In this state one realize that the other 3 stages of conscience are only like a dream, or a false reality.

 

Sastra states that if one want to serve Indra he should attain the place where Indra resides, and at Indra's environment he should understand whatever Indra relishes and whatever he may desire. Only then one may serve him according. By inference, if you want to understand the transcendental realm, you should be transferred to that realm by this path, named samadhi state.

 

Vaikuntha may only be naturally observed by samadhi. The only way to attain samadhi is through the association with those who already had attained it. And this association can be found only by Sri Krsna direct mercy.

 

In the sate of samadhi one can see Sri Krsna directly, just like His personal associates can see Him, and many 'secrets' may be revealed by this way.

 

Samadhi is a transcendental realm and may only be attained by a transcendental method. It is only achieved by receiving the seed of samadhi by proper initiation in how to attain it. This can be given exclusively by an expert in samadhi.

 

This donation is technically called diksa. And by the process of diksa, one may gradually attains samadhi. There is no other method. The method is very scientific and is easily reproducible by anyone who by good fortune attains the association with an expert in samadhi, a self-realized soul.

 

Unfortunately ordinary people have too much faith in argument and logic caused by their attachment to their own mind, intelligence and senses, and disdain the natural samadhi as something superstitious and unnatural. They prefer to find some artificial methods to attain the upper state of conscience and put their faith in science, history, drugs, tantra, argument, logic, bodily exercises and so on.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sabdha-brahma, or transcendental sound is the only cause of this samadhi state and real transcendental knowledge. If one is trying to attain samadhi transcendental knowledge by employing his fallible senses, this is called indriya-paratantra, the kind of knowledge that jivas may attain through their material senses, and it cannot give one the fruit of yoga. This is the conclusion of all sastras.

 

Therefore, indriya-paratantra, the kind of knowledge that jivas may attain through their material senses won't lead someone to the realm of samadhi and its realizations. That's why spiritualists in general disdain indriya-paratantra, not only devotees.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[shvu]

 

...they have positioned themselves as the enemy of mankind while cloaking themselves as the healers and saviors of mankind.All the while the hard earned taxes of the common man are wasted on their projects.

Maitreya,

 

Out of curiosity, what do you feel the scientists should do? Do you suggest that they accept God as the cause of life, drop all research and go home?

 

I am trying to understand your perception.

 

Cheers

 

 

------------------

Confucius says a man who runs behind a car will get exhausted.

[kailasa]

There is a direct perception(recognition). In the beginning man trusts, but can is then direct in all be convinced. But the God is impossible announcing a call, to learn(find out) that that about it(him).

Yes there are thousand opinions, but all develops under one law? One thousand laws, this simply bad perception(recognition). One law works only. Ability to create is incorporated by the God, let and the animals invented, is not present? Why? Would do machines and would be rolled there here. The mind(wit) is created the God, or who has created it(him)? Water has developed in seaweed, the seaweed casually has crept out on a coast? Phenomenally. The god has created the Sun, the people have created a box on an orbit, as far as they are great! You what do not see as at them all collapses? What sense in silly clones? A clone Eistein? The next peace atom?

The birth, death is a problem veda, and it who where lives, as eats, it not scientific problems, it is problems of animals. Already for a long time all is proved, simply there are obstinate people which are not wishing to accept the God. Everything, ateistic, " how many people are so much opinions ", only not the God, only not the person. Krisna I speak " I am the God. " Also describes ALL. All the beginning of creation and end is described, all elements, soul, supersoul, the feelings, mind(wit), reason, device installed, there are not described all these irons, as the normal people it does not interest. Irons, bombs and dangerous experiments. " Some consider(count) that before I was impersonal. " There is No god, well, continue experiments, philosophy think up on more convenient(more conveniently), that can that and will understand. The spiritual world is boundless and sitting in a pool it difficultly to understand, I that I it, where your God I do not see it(him). I the God, I have created an iron and teapot, the can flies on an orbit, well and who on yours the God? All casually has arisen, now I shall calculate the laws (casual), casual law and all I shall operate, I and became the God! I operate the machine, I press buttons of the computer. We have taken off for space and have flown by there how many that, it yes, all-time! The world in ecstasy, Lord Shiva is surprised, demigods are struck with riches of teapots and magnificent machines installed trembles before power of the people. Any idea or combination of material elements beforehand is already incorporated in structure installed. In general anything new is not created, as already for a long time all is created both is counted(reckoned) and the limits and opportunities only are established. But as who that wants to consider(count) itself great, for him(it) so all and is arranged, that it(he) could " create, support and destroy ". To be played that by one philosophy, another. The good place, everybody can come here and push the opinion, invent, be at war, and when is tired, it is possible to reason on a relativity of life. Merging in "unity" with the God, all not so is insulting, instead of so it(he) mister, I too and not so is bad. I to you shall preach, do not listen to anybody, the religion is a drug for the people. That that I understand it true, it(he) criterion of true. That I see and explain I can, it is true, and all rest does not exist.

[Maitreya]

Originally posted by shvu:

Maitreya,

 

Out of curiosity, what do you feel the scientists should do? Do you suggest that they accept God as the cause of life, drop all research and go home?

 

I am trying to understand your perception.

 

Cheers

 

 

shvu,

Yes they should accept God as the cause of life like everyone should.As far as dropping all research, is that possible?Everyone must follow their nature.I applaud that drive to know.But not to the point of torturing innocent animals like they do to satisfy their curiousity for instance.And the space program is a farce and a collosal waste of time and money etc.How to make their endeavors more benign?

 

At this point we can point to positive accomplishments from their community but we could point out some very dangerous things they have set in motion as well.Its my opinion that the bad outweighs the good.

 

They make statements like they will conquer death,end disease etc. that are so foolish.If they only would stop with the cheating.Just tone it down,humanity under their leadership and direction is moving fast towards some major destruction.

 

MC

 

 

[shvu]

 

All right. Just wanted to know your opinion.

 

Thanx

[Maitreya]

shvu,

 

What's yours?

[shvu]

My opinion:

 

Basically I am for science. The space programs were more a political issue with the cold war in full swing. But since then, that has not been the national priority.

 

The scientist cannot accept that God created the world, simply because the bible says so. If he does that, he is no longer a scientist! Of course, it can be a personal religious belief to him, but he cannot use that in science unless he has something concrete to base it upon.

 

Science is not without it's good points. If it were not for technology, we would be farming or herding cattle and would not be having this discussion today. In all probability, there would have been no Iskcon, as we know it. The devotee is not averse to using technology wherever it is useful. Yet he is against trying to explain life in rational terms. The only reason that I can see for such an inconsistency is that he has an inherent fear that such a discovery will knock down his beliefs.

 

We are not in a position to make a statement that science cannot explain life. 200 years back, if someone had claimed that man will one day fly and have wireless communication, peole would have laughed. But it has happened today. Similarly, science may uncover more information about the origin of life later some day. To say "science has not yet..." is reasonable but to say "science cannot..." is to kill all possibilities.

 

Where I work, there is a poster on a wall that reads as follows,

 

****

 

In 1899, the US patent office, released the following statement,

 

Everything that can be invented, already has been.

 

if these 'experts' ran the world, we would still be living in darkness today. It is upto us to break the barriers of dogma and to make innovations....

 

****

 

My point is that it is wrong to say that science cannot discover something in the future, if it has not discovered it already. If one can decisively prove that science can never find the origin of life, then perhaps God can be accepted as the most logical reason available. But until then one cannot dismiss science lightly, simply because the religious book says otherwise.

 

Cheers

 

[Maitreya]

 

Originally posted by shvu:

My opinion:

 

Basically I am for science. The space programs were more a political issue with the cold war in full swing. But since then, that has not been the national priority.

 

The scientist cannot accept that God created the world, simply because the bible says so. If he does that, he is no longer a scientist! Of course, it can be a personal religious belief to him, but he cannot use that in science unless he has something concrete to base it upon.

 

Life from life is logical.Inert matter suddenly[as in Bang!] suddenly ex or inploding into all we see and developing conciousness is a much wilder and fanciful explanation than God created the world.The blind faith exhibited by the materialistic scientist is amazing.

 

 

Science is not without it's good points. If it were not for technology, we would be farming or herding cattle and would not be having this discussion today.

 

Better the farm than this mess of pavement, cars,factories and filthy air.

 

 

In all probability, there would have been no Iskcon, as we know it. The devotee is not averse to using technology wherever it is useful.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Yet he is against trying to explain life in rational terms. The only reason that I can see for such an inconsistency is that he has an inherent fear that such a discovery will knock down his beliefs.

 

I find the idea that consciousness is a product of matter to be irrational.A rational scientist should have realized this.Every atom of the body changes over and over, yet consciousness remains.Rational deduction says consciousness is distinct from matter.Perhaps the materialist fears finding his true identity is spiritual,knocking down his attachment to matter.A fear I might add that is not foreign to spiritual practioners as well in our beginning stages.

 

We are not in a position to make a statement that science cannot explain life.

 

Well we know that, but yet they go ahead and say life is not spiritual, that it is based in matter.That is cheating.If one does not know simply say I don't know.

 

200 years back, if someone had claimed that man will one day fly and have wireless communication, peole would have laughed. But it has happened today. Similarly, science may uncover more information about the origin of life later some day. To say "science has not yet..." is reasonable but to say "science cannot..." is to kill all possibilities.

 

shvu, I am trying to make the point that they have already proved that consciousness is separate from matter.But they ignore it in favor of their bias against the spiritual.

 

Maya will expertly give them engagements and discoveries enough to keep their investigations into matter going for aeons.But it is all just a distraction.

 

Where I work, there is a poster on a wall that reads as follows,

 

****

 

In 1899, the US patent office, released the following statement,

 

Everything that can be invented, already has been.

 

if these 'experts' ran the world, we would still be living in darkness today. It is upto us to break the barriers of dogma and to make innovations....

 

 

But don't forget to run a societal cost benefit analysis before employing the inventions..Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done.

 

****

My point is that it is wrong to say that science cannot discover something in the future, if it has not discovered it already. If one can decisively prove that science can never find the origin of life, then perhaps God can be accepted as the most logical reason available. But until then one cannot dismiss science lightly, simply because the religious book says otherwise.

 

I don't oppose science as a principle as I said, just the way it is used.

 

If one scientist can do his work and in his own life accept the knowledge descending from God, why can't the field as a whole?Such a thing would be a true benefit to mankind, both materially and spiritually.

 

But would that be commercially viable.Most scientitists work for corps. who have their eye on the bottom line only or at least primarily.

 

At this point they are just out of control.

 

About instinct, do they claim to have found a super locating gene in birds?How do they explain that?

 

MC

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

>> If one can decisively prove that science can never find the origin of life, then perhaps God can be accepted as the most logical reason available.

 

Basically Shvu seems to accept the thesis that the body is the self. But sastras, spiritualists, devotees, and so on, accept the concept that the body is not the self. The self is the atma. Atma is a very subtle principle that cannot be measured by the senses.

 

We admit that atma can be proved by a scientific method, employing the system of yoga, attaining samadhi, and the proper perspective for atma's evaluation. When we say scientific method we are considering a method that can be reproducible by anyone who follows the same process. As the aim of yoga is for certain reproducible, yoga can be considered as a science, otherwise it would be considered as an art.

 

Obviously scientists are living entities placed in this world, and therefore we can observe that there may be tamasic, rajasic and sattvik scientists. As most of the people in this world is placed in tama and rajas gunas, science as a whole may be considered as mainly affected by these gunas.

 

In West, specially during the 50' and part of the 60's, most of the tamasic and rajasic people would consider science as a lenitive for all their suffering and as a balsam for their aspirations. But science also had enter in decadence, and nowadays the same people use to put their hopes in other material sources such as low class of mysticism, herbs, alternative medicine, astrology, and even some material aspects of Vedic knowledge.

 

Maybe in Shvu's home town at South India, people may have the same hopes in science that we had in West 50 years ago, and therefore he is defending here some old fashioned point of views.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[shvu]

 

Maybe in Shvu's home town at South India, people may have the same hopes in science that we had in West 50 years ago, and therefore he is defending here some old fashioned point of views.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Anyway we are clearly of different opinions on and let us just agree to disagree on this subject.

 

Cheers

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Without getting into whether the theories are right or wrong, I would have to admit that India is at least 20 or 30 years behind in what they teach in schools. They are not teaching the same things as being taught in the west.

 

[Love]

Fritjof Capra is a quite renowned physicist who has attempted to bring science and religion closer. It may be worthwhile to read his books (The Tao of Physics, etc) just to know how a person can learn to not to be biased either towards religion or science. God gave us the intellect and so He expects us to use the intellect in intellectual manner and not spiritual. That would be adharma against the intellect at the intellectual level. Man has to learn to evolve physically initially. By evolving physically means taking rebirth (dwij - twice born) from conflicts within your somatic self and integrating your personality. It is only on this foundation that a spiritual journey can begin. Otherwise, no matter how many years, how many births one may spend, the journey may never complete. When Krishna talks of indriyas and to control them he is talking no spiritual truth but a somatic truth that the senses need to be evolved by giving them re-birth from the terrible mothers that come in various archetypes to the human being. We are only confusing our inner compartments when we enforce our spiritual light upon the somatic or the intellectual self. In fact, that has been the whole of human evolution. In human evolution (evolution in the sense of developing as better beings, not the Darwin concept), we have always enforced either the intellectual or the spiritual light upon the body. No wonder, we don;t seem to have grown much somatically when compared with our prehistoric man. We still have the same conflicts - greed, lobhyati (libido), etc in our physical existence. If this were not true, can someone deny the fact that intellectually and spiritually the man as a species has grown over the history of his existence. However, we cannot say the same for our somatic level. We are still controlled by parochial views, bias, greed, etc in our lives. This is only because we never allowed the somatic knowledge to flower and it has remained pre-historic to this day in the man. Please know that even spiritual light when forced upon the body becomes a lie. Spirituality teaches us that there is nothing in running after worldly things. Yet at the body level the truth is that we have to find purushartha in ourselves and use it to earn fame, fortune, and health and wealth. If we apply the spiritual truth to the body we will corrupt it and in fact make it unfit to survive. At the same time we have to attain dharma in our somatic self. Once we do that we can attain dharma at higher levels. We have forgotten that the body has its own light (knowledge) that is best suited to help the body grow. Instincts (cumulative experience of the personal and the group that is remembered)form a part of this somatic knowledge too. However, this is only a small fraction of the somatic knowledge. At this level the mind is simply the brain, the heart even though the heart does not have emotions but sentiments which drive the moods of the body (mind you not the mind). Man has to learn to take rebirth from sentiments and convert them into emotions. When man integrates himself at the somatic level this way the doors of the psychological realms open to him and then the spiritual level. No matter what one may claim, but if one could not integrate the somatic-self he cannot become a spiritualists.

Science is the natural extension of the intellect in the man. However, it is equally wrong for the scientist and the spiritualist to discard each other. Each does not know the other's area well and so when we discard other knowledge we are in fact killing one of the two levels within ourselves and creating problems for ourselves.

[Guest guest]

 

Science is the natural extension of the intellect in the man. However, it is equally wrong for the scientist and the spiritualist to discard each other.

 

We believe that sanatana-dharma means a natural evolution towards spirituality. Specially the Vaisnava approach on materialism is that the material condition is an unnatural and perverted condition that a pure spiritual entity was forced to face due his immature condition.

 

The material environment is temporary and perverted, and the living entity should regress sooner or latter to his constitutional position that is transcendental to this material world. However, while in the conditional or material state, the living entity should employ material conditions to revert his abnormal situation.

 

Therefore we consider intellect as something that should be surpassed as soon as samadhi is attained. It won't help one to advance in the path of yoga after the firsts stages of samadhi are manifested.

 

Those who are seeking after the state of samadhi are instructed to perform sadhana. Sadhana (efforts to attain a transcendental aim) is performed with the senses, mind and intelligence that are all material. Instead of employ his senses, mind and intelligence to attain material aims, one is instructed to revert that situation, by employing them in a transcendental pursuit that should be clear pointed out in the beginning of the process.

 

The practitioner is advised to engage all material facilities to fulfill his sadhana, and never to reject what is favorable to attain his aim. So, he can utilize the things generated by science such as planes, computers, medicine, electricity and so on to advance in his path. But he is never advised to abandon his sadhana to dedicate himself to material science. He knows that science is the natural extension of the intellect in the man and he is trying to surpass the intellect and human hood.

 

In the same manner, if by chance a sadhaka also have some mystic powers, he can employ them to fulfil his sadhana, but he is never advised to stop his sadhana and to seek after these mystic powers, that are thousands of times more powerful than any scientific device.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

 

[amanpeter]

Here is a site some may find interesting: http://www.reluctantmessenger.com/main.htm

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 05-23-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 05-23-2001).]

[Love]

I nearly agree with what you say about the need to pass intellectual level. In fact, that is what I said as well if you note when I wrote that we have to evolve at our intellectual level. Evolving at this level means not learning science or whatever bu taking rebirth at this level to grow out of it. Indeed, spiritual level is the highest level of existence of all the levels. However, that is a distinction we humans are not supposed to judge or decipher. It is like having several mothers, but a son's dharma is to have equal respect and devotion to each of them, irrespective of their qualities and never ever to grade them. So, I say that at level of intellect intellect only works best. I guess Krishna was a spiritualist of the highest order. However, even He did not apply spirituality where intellect was required. You can deduce this from several incidents in Mahabharata where he applied His intellect to overcome certain kinds of situations. Why does He not apply spirituality at these stages? Because it is the only way of keeping oneself clear at all times and maintaining unity in the diversity of our existence. Besides, until we have this physical body (we have something called beej-aatman or the seed-soul) which is nothing more than the energy form of this material body which has to be liberated as well. Vedic culture placed equal emphasis on this beej-aatman as the aatman. All I am saying is that we cannot degrade our other levels of existence as impure because that was not meant to be decided by us. Each of these comes from that single substance called love. These are simply myriad images of love broken down into other particles. If one is a true spiritualist who has passed and evolved form other levels of existence, he will not look down in disdain upon the lower levels of existence as that is the surest way to be pulled back into mire of confusion from the elevated seat of spirituality.

Cheers

[Guest guest]

>> If one is a true spiritualist who has passed and evolved form other levels of existence, he will not look down in disdain upon the lower levels of existence as that is the surest way to be pulled back into mire of confusion from the elevated seat of spirituality.

 

For certain this is a very nice point, and this was the msg always enhanced by our Mahaprabhu: "humility and tolerance are the basis for spiritual advancement."

 

While discussing with you, dear Loveji, we cannot distingue some of the concepts that you are employing, as for certain your darsan is different than ours. Please, tell us what is your line, to make communications easily.

 

Concerning intellect we consider that it is also bounded at 3 different gunas. So, in a lower stage of development, or in a low condition, human intellect is tamasic. In such condition there is a great difficulty to develop sadhu-sanga, that sastra state to be the cause of spiritual advance. If the intellect is placed in rajo-guna, it also will be very attracted by material subjects, the mind will be always here and there, sadhu-sanga is also very difficult to be attained in such condition.

 

If the intellect is placed in sattva-guna, its owner may have a chance to develop some interest in the rules and regulations mentioned in sattvik-sastras, and he may have his attention awaked for sadhu-sanga.

 

We consider spiritual life as nirguna, apart from material gunas; or suddha-sattvika, transcendental to any material intellect. And following sastra's opinion, we consider that only by sadhu-sanga one may have some insight of this realm.

 

Therefore, those who are endowed of sattvik-intellect may have more chance to attain sadhu-sanga and spiritual awaken. Indeed this is very rare in this world. Extremely rare, and it is only attained after countless lifetimes, after gathering a considerable amount of sukrti for this kind of sadhu-sanga.

 

But sadhus are there, they need to give their wealth to the need, they are always trying to increase ordinary's people sukrti, and if someone has the proper adhikara (eligibility), they may initiate him into transcendental topics, causing him to at first attain samadhi and help him in the whole process.

 

So, sadhus are living here and there, they may give TV interviews, public lectures, kirtanas, they may publish books, they may travel, or stay in a city. They are playing their role all over. And you are right in your perspective, sadhus never disdain ordinary people (real sadhus, of course).

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[Love]

Right ho! Satyarajaji.

My understanding is that each individual lives simultaneously at several levels of consciousness/ existence – somatic, psychological, intellectual, & spiritual. Prakriti can appear in three forms: Sattvik, Rajsik, or Tamsik as you said. It is not this any where you look you will find Prakriti (Nature) appearing in these three forms. There is a good reason for this. If you look at various beliefs around the world – Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, etc, most of them (apart from Hinduism) accord a separate existence to evil and they classify things as essentially good or evil. In their belief, evil has a separate existence form God (Good) and so good and evil are in constant struggle to take control of the human soul. Here Hinduism differs from other beliefs. It does not accord a separate existence to evil. In fact, Hindu thought says that evil is the building block out of which good is made and hence, those who gain the knowledge of reconverting the evil into the good compound cannot be defeated by evil. It is also for this reason Hinduism says that good always conquers evil. Other beliefs are not so sure about this. In Hinduism the only pre-requisite for this saying to be true is the practice of the yoga of taking rebirths from these evils. (Personally I would not use the word evil but am using it for case of example only). For e.g. let’s say that you love someone. And that person provides you with an instance where they hurt your feelings very badly. Immediately, you will find certain other feelings coming inside you. These vary from individual to individual. You may feel at that moment of betrayal hatred, anger, anguish, depression, dejection, or whatever else. It only means that the outcome of a certain experience was that your love broke down into certain tamasik forms of nature that are manifesting themselves inside you after the satvik form (love) was broken. Now, if you know that there is a way to recombine these tamasik constituents in the original satvik love that you had, you can merge back these tamasik constituents into original love. And that way is the yoga of taking rebirths. There are a few requirements for this yoga. You have to realize that though there may be some qualitative gradation between sattva, rajas, and tamas forms of Nature but that gradation is not for you to know of. There are kinds of knowledge that even though are there cannot be absorbed by the human consciousness and remain intact. This is one of them. The moment an individual retains the knowledge of the inherent gradation between sattva, rajas and tamas forms of nature they are essentially saying that one form of mother Nature is dearer to them than the other. Whereas, the truth is that in any form she is still our mother who is only taking different forms to provide us the environment in which we can evolve so that no one can harm us. This is what she does out of love for us. We need to teach all levels of existence within us that Nature in any form is equally respectable to us and we should pray unto her in all her forms equally well (Saraswati, Lakshmi, or Kali) as she is only our mother who has appeared in several forms to us. The moment you do this sadhana and also command the broken down constituents inside yourself to take rebirth from each other by committing a self-sacrifice of yourself unto all these constituents and asking all these constituents to do the same, they are bound by law of nature to recombine into that original love that you had. Only this time your love will grow the knowledge and the art of recombining each time such kind of incident happens to you. Evolution in life is more like a yagna where you sacrifice yourself every time only to be given a rebirth and evolve stronger than the previous time. While practicing this art we also have to realize that we do not use light of one level of existence upon another level as the light from one level is like darkness to the other. So, if we apply spiritual light or intellectual light to the human body we are disallowing the body to live by its own somatic light, which it has. Over centuries of civilization importance has been given to spiritual or intellectual (rational) thought and this knowledge has been foolishly applied to somatic level of existence. This has forced the somatic knowledge inside us to hide away out of the fear of the brilliance of these two lights. Body’s requirements are simple and simpler is the knowledge it requires. Nature, except for very fortunate ones as you said, appears in her tamasik form to others at this somatic level just as it does on other levels. However, our body has to find a way through this yoga to make her tamasik nature convert into satvik nature in our somatic self. Once we do this, w can evolve further at the psychological and then spiritual level, where it again appears in her tamasik form in a different archetype that we have to break out of. Unless, we have taken rebirth from Nature at our somatic level and converted our somatic nature into satvik we can keep on trying the spiritual path and we will attain NOTHING. Only thing that we will attain is that we will learn to force our spiritual light upon our body in order to keep it in control. One day, then, the body will revolt.

So, that is the summary of my belief and philosophy. I would welcome any critic review of what I wrote above.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Thanks for explaining us your viewpoint, we follow guru-varga and their teachings according sadhu and sastra.

 

We learn that this 'love' in the material world or somatic platform is only kama. No matter if it is tamasic, rajasic or sattvik. Gunas are material modes, not transcendental. We are seeking after a suddha-sattvika (completely pure) kind of love that we call prema, that is nirguna.

 

Prema has nothing to do with mundane kama and with its implications with gunas and karma. As it is transcendental, one should try to enter into the transcendental realm to relish it. Our darsan is that material love is only temporary and a fruit of maya. Prema is eternal and it is the natural disposition of jiva (jiva-svarupa).

 

Therefore we consider that our route into samsara is actually a search for this prema, that in the material world is corrupted into kama. According the individual evolution in sanatana-dharma, one may have the proper association and learn how to attain this prema.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa