A good joke...

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I probably should have posted this in the joke forum, but I thought I would put it here anyway. This is an email I just received from the "Why save the cows?" article through .

 

I couldn't stop laughing for awhile.

 

But I do appreciate the response.

 

----------------

 

Howdy,

 

I read your web site. You have been deceived. Jesus Christ is Lord of all,

including Mr. Krishna. Here's what the true God says regarding cows:

 

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them

rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the LIVESTOCK,

over all the earth, and over ALL the creatures that move along the ground."

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;

male and female he created them.

 

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill

the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the

air and over EVERY living creature that moves on the ground."

 

 

This is God's truth and the truth will set you free. If you are not a

follower of the Lord Jesus Christ then you are in bondage.

 

Most Sincerely,

Ron S.

[Mary]

Dear jndas...

 

I have to say I am absolutely disgusted with your judgemental and racist response to Ron S. message. Everyone has a right to believe in their own faith. I do not ridicule you nor judge you because you are Hindu. You believe what you do because of the family you were born into. If you happened to be born into a Christian family...you would most likely be Christian.

 

The fact is that the many religions of this world, including Christianity AND Hinduism believe in preserving Human life, feeding the hungry, peace, love and unity. If we could all respect eachother's religions, this world would be a much better place.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mary

[Gauracandra]

Nothing JNDas said here was racist nor judgmental. The letter was clearly judgmental against non-Christians by saying that unless you follow his views then you are in bondage. I thought it was funny.

 

Gauracandra

[shvu]

Who knows? Perhaps Mr Jesus is truly the boss of all, including Mr Krishna.

 

Excuse me, but considering everything, what is the extra information or prerogative that a hindu has to claim that the above posting by Ron is incorrect? One person saying Krishna is the boss is exactly the same as someone else saying Jesus is the boss.

 

By the same standard of humor, someone who claims that Krishna is the ultimate, should also be laughed at.

 

Cheers

 

 

[This message has been edited by shvu (edited 05-24-2001).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Hi Mary,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Originally posted by Mary:

I have to say I am absolutely disgusted with your judgemental and racist response to Ron S. message.

What exactly was my judgment? And what did I say that was racist. I think you are a little confused.

 

Everyone has a right to believe in their own faith.

Thanks for the double standard. See, the funny part about the letter was that others were not given a right to believe in their own faiths. The letter was very judgmental; it judged everyone as having been deceived, as following a false god, as not possessing truth, and as situated in bondage. Serious and respectful people will not refer to others holy deities as "Mr. Krishna", as I am sure you would agree. But thats just part of your double standard.

 

I do not ridicule you nor judge you because you are Hindu.

Thanks for your tolerance and broad mindedness. I wish Mr. Ron was similarly open minded as you. It would have been nice if he chose not to ridicule Hindus simply because they don't follow his chosen path of Christianity.

 

You believe what you do because of the family you were born into. If you happened to be born into a Christian family...you would most likely be Christian.

Unfortunately this is the truth in most cases throughout the world. Religion is followed not because of the spiritual truths it provides, but because of allegience to a family clan or custom. Religion in society has been brought down to the level of bodily identification; when the actual purpose of religion is to transcend the body.

 

The fact is that the many religions of this world, including Christianity AND Hinduism believe in preserving Human life, feeding the hungry, peace, love and unity.

And I would add that Hinduism also believes in preserving all life, and loving all living entities as parts and parcels of God.

 

If we could all respect eachother's religions, this world would be a much better place.

Good point. I think I will pass this on to Mr. Ron.

 

Thanks for your views.

 

[Maitreya]

Well Lord Jesus told me that Lord Krishna is the Supreme Lord.So now that that is settled,let's talk cows and the other helpless creatures of the Earth.

 

Why don't our Christian brethren take it that God made humans the caretakers of the Earth?Instead they take that to mean that God gave us the earth to plunder and exploit to our hearts content.

 

I prefer the garden vision over the slaughterhouse one.

 

The Mr. Krishna thing was funny, let's admit.

 

By the way I am a reborn Christian who chants Hare Krishna so I have license to go after everyone.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Originally posted by shvu:

 

 

No one has questioned the validity of the statement. That wasn't what was funny. Perhaps this is subtle humor. The funny part was the manner in which people make their assertions blindly, based on allegience to a particular cultural conception, without providing evidence or supportive information to back their claims. And the judgmental manner in which it was written helped to increase the humor content as well.

 

 

The point is not the content, but the method of presentation. I would have laughed just as much if someone asserted the same thing about any religion without providing valid evidences or reasons; while simultaneous condemning others. The only thing worse than blind faith is blind condemnation.

 

 

You seemed to have missed my point. I would not laugh at someone for believing that Christ is the supreme. I would respect someone for that faith. What I would condemn is fanaticism.

 

Fanatical condemnation without logical basis is certainly not the sign of advancement on any spiritual path. But it does provide for a good laugh.

 

[amanpeter]

Since when are is another's faith, however supposedly `blind` or fanatic, considered a JOKE? Who can deny that such religious sentiments have been the cause of intense suffering for so many? Surely a spiritual forum is not the place to make light of ANYONE'S feelings in this regard, especially by an official administrator who one hopes would be above this kind of nonsense.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by amanpeter:

Since when are is another's faith, however supposedly `blind` or fanatic, considered a JOKE? Who can deny that such religious sentiments have been the cause of intense suffering for so many? Surely a spiritual forum is not the place to make light of ANYONE'S feelings in this regard, especially by an official administrator who one hopes would be above this kind of nonsense.

The joke is on you, amanpeter! Too bad you have no sense of humor.

[Maitreya]

I am struck by Mary's calling Jndas a racist.What was that about?

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

I am struck by Mary's calling Jndas a racist.What was that about?

It is the same as asking when did you stop beating your wife?

 

These so-called Xtians are a joke. MC, you should become guru to these folks, they need one. You know the verses and the slokas, perhaps the Lord is calling.....

[animesh]

<quote> By the same standard of humor, someone who claims that Krishna is the ultimate, should also be laughed at. </quote>

 

If the article mentioned that jesus was the supreme, then I would not have found anything wrong with that. But what is bad is the claim that all those who are non-Christians have been deceived.

 

 

[animesh]

I have to say I am absolutely disgusted with your judgemental and racist response to Ron S. message. Everyone has a right to believe in their own faith. I do not ridicule you nor judge you because you are Hindu.

 

Mary ji,

There is nothing wrong in being a Christian. There is nothing wrong if someone wants to worship Jesus. But it is definitely wrong to say that all Non-Chritians have been deceived. You have written that everyone has a right to believe in their own faith. Do u think that everyone includes only Christians? Please read the content of the email sent by Ron S. to jndas ji. It is quite clear from the letter that all those who are not Christians are following some false religion.

[animesh]

Let us imagine that I write the following. Will Ron S. like this?

 

Howdy,

 

I read your email. You have been deceived. Krishna is Lord of all, including Mr. Jesus. Here's what the true God says regarding all creaturs:

 

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them

rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the LIVESTOCK,

over all the earth, and over ALL the creatures that move along the ground."

 

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him;

male and female he created them.

 

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill

the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the

air and over EVERY living creature that moves on the ground."

 

 

This is God's truth and the truth will set you free. If you are not a

follower of the Lord Krishna, then you are in bondage.

 

Most Sincerely,

Animesh

 

Please note: I am not trying to say that one should write something what I have written above. I have written that just to show that if someone tells Christians that Jesus is not true God, then they will not like it. And they have every right not to like it. Similarly, people of other faith also have every right not to like it when someone tells them that their God is not true God and therefore they are in bondage.

[amanpeter]

Originally posted by animesh:

<quote> By the same standard of humor, someone who claims that Krishna is the ultimate, should also be laughed at. </quote>

 

If the article mentioned that jesus was the supreme, then I would not have found anything wrong with that. But what is bad is the claim that all those who are non-Christians have been deceived.

 

What's right or wrong is not the question here, but whether that particular Email is a good joke or even funny. It doesn't seem appropriate for what is supposedly a spiritual discussion thread. Or does anyone actually believe the exchanges here are leading towards God conciousness? Does anyone even care? Audarya Fellowship, jndas?

[sushil_kanoria]

Thank God,

I am not a Christian neither I too would have been thinking ruling the creatures.

I pity Ron when he says that Jesus is the lord of Lord Krishna.

I am really thankful to lord krishna he gave me birth in india & that also in a Veg. family & that also in a family where all are Godconscious. After reading the article I feel myself proud to be a sanatan dharmi or so called hindu.

Ms. Mary let me clarify few things to you, First of all there is no originator of our religion it is directly coming from God & the meaning of our religion is "for each & every one" that is "sanatan dharmi" & not hindu, as people say,

I am extremely sorry if I have heart anybody's sentiment.

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

...but whether that particular Email is a good joke or even funny.

Certainly it was funnier than the email that said, "Cows, tasty little creatures."

 

Believe it or not, Mr. Ron was trying to be funny. He meant to be funny. Thats why he writes "Mr. Krishna", etc. Rather than get offended, its better to appreciate his humor in connection with the traditional blind condemnation of others that is common in Western countries.

 

I hope his letter would illustrate some of sentiments prevalent in the Western mindset. A view that all others are uncultured and primitive; something that event the earliest indologists emphasized in their writings. Such a mindset is actually offensive, intentionally so, as we can see both in the writings of the indologists and in Mr. Ron's letter. But for some reason Hindus are supposed to just ignore it and accept that they are primitive and backwards. The double standard is truly engrained in western society, where one must tolerate attacks against minorities, but carefully avoid any slight provocative statement about the majority. This is especially clear in Eastern Europe, where the church has a stronghold on the governments, and utilizes its influence to crush minority religions.

 

The United States on the other hand is somewhat more open and liberal. But religious (and even racial) intolerance is very prominant in the southern states.

 

It is seen as fine to ridicule other's beliefs and practices, blaspheme other's gods and holy deities, and condemn the minorities as lost, deceived, and heading for hell. But if someone were to object to such treatment, in a public forum such as this, the double standard comes into play.

 

Actually we should not laugh at the response given by Mr. Ron. We should be offended and angered by it. But according to the Gita anger is one of the three paths leading to hell; thus it should be avoided. In such a case it is much better to see an offensive statement in a humorous manner, and display it for the cultural education of all.

 

Some people would rather we respect other's rights to insult minorities. They feel we should silently observe. I would disagree.

 

Such deep lying disdain of other cultures and religions, which is practically spontaneous, naturally arising within certain people, should be exposed, not ignored.

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Originally posted by amanpeter:

Who can deny that such religious sentiments have been the cause of intense suffering for so many?

Actually I believe the conception that everyone else is worshipping false gods (maybe the devil?), that they are deceived, that they are heathens, heretics and the such, and that "my way is the only truth, and everyone else must be converted to my way" is the cause of much suffering in the world. I think my view can be substantiated by recorded history as well. The settling of North and South America is a good example. The inquisition is a good example. The crusades is a good example. The colonization of Africa is a good example.

 

How many cultures have been wiped out in the name of spreading Christianity? Maybe we need to have an endangered cultures list; and countries should prohibit conversions within those cultures.

 

If it can work for the dolphin maybe it can work for humans too.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Indeed a very rajasic discussion, where gastronomic preferences are placed as the Absolute Truth. All parties are very disturbed by the concept of what is a palatable dish and what is sacred. Let's see:

 

1)" In the presence and service of: AUM SRI 108 SRI SRIMAN VENKATA-VAIKHANASA TURIYATAKA PRADHANA PRAMAN JYESTHA ACHARYA, SRIVARI SAMPRADAYIN SRI SRIMAN TIRUVENKATADASA DIKSHITULU TURIYATAKACHARYA JIYER; it is offered being supreme mercy absolute:

 

"The position taken by the Puri Temple is correct.

 

"There is absolutely no question in permitting cow-eaters into a temple which is being serviced classically by The Sri Vaikhanasa Sampradaya."

 

2) Recently a famous Hindu acarya stated that the Pope himself is to be considered a cruel demon because he eats veal (calves).

 

3) Muslims states that Hindus are dominated by Satan because they eat pigs. So, all Hindus are very impure according Muslim point of view. Jews agree with this statement made by Muslims in spite of their chronic disputes.

 

4) Christians states that Hindus have no pity and are very cruel and barbarians because they have the largest cattle herd of the world and most of Indian population is suffering on chronic starvation and protein shortage. They would have a better future in this planet if they eat their cattle instead of worship it.

 

5) Ironically nowadays India is one of the bigger beef exporters. Large amounts of Indian cattle are being exported all over as frozen beef with Indian government support. Is not this cattle sacred?

 

It seems to be an unending religious match on God's instructions about what to eat.

 

Regarding Hindu scriptures is clear stated in Gitopanisad (3.13):

 

yajña-sistasinah santo / mucyante sarva-kilbisaih

bhuñjate te tv agham papa / ye pacanty atma-karanat

 

"Saintly persons who accept the remnants of yajña become free from sin, but those who cook grains and other foodstuffs for their own sake are sinful, and certainly partake of sin."

 

So, God's instruction is to eat the remnants of a sacrifice, sacred foodstuff.

 

Christian, Muslims, Jews, have all similar statements in their sastras; "One should offer whatever he eats as a sacrifice to God's pleasure."

 

Nowhere in sastra is stated that God is starving or that He is hungry, and therefore He need to be feed by humans with material foodstuff of any kind, veg or non-veg. The conclusion of all sastric instructions is that God should be always remembered and one should never forget Him.

 

dasa dasanudasa

Satyaraja dasa

 

[shvu]

 

If the article mentioned that jesus was the supreme, then I would not have found anything wrong with that. But what is bad is the claim that all those who are non-Christians have been deceived.

Then the following statement is bad too, because it is saying the exact same thing.

 

There is no religion in the world except Krsna consciousness. All bogus. - Prabhupada

 

The same people who are finding Ron's position funny did not find this statement funny. It is common knowledge that the christian thinks that only christians will be saved. It is part and parcel of christianity. Likewise every other religion says it is the only right one. I fail to see the logic behind posting a private e-mail here as a joke. If Ron were also viewing the forum, then it may have been allright because he would have had a chance to backup his claim or atleast people could have told him that different people have different beliefs.

 

What is the point now, except sarcasm? This gives an impression that the Hindus laugh at christianity.

 

Cheers

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Likewise every other religion says it is the only right one.

No, this isn't true. Sanatana dharma acknowledges many steps on the ladder of self-realization. Though they are not all viewed as the top-rung of the ladder (i.e. the destination), they are all acknowledged as possessing truth in various degrees.

 

I fail to see the logic behind posting a private e-mail here as a joke.

Perhaps you should read the privacy policy on this site. Any email sent to the address jndas@ may be reproduced either on this website, or in our newsletter at our personal discretion, with appropriate commentary. If your email is intended to be private, it should be labeled as such. Regardless, I do keep emails private when their content is obviously intended to be confidential. But I felt the illumination of Ron's letter was so enlightening it deserved to be spread for the benefit of others.

 

You can't seriously think Ron's blind condemnation and criticism of another religion was intended to be a personal and confidential insult directed only for the private viewing of myself. But anyway, you are Shvu, you need to always argue the other half of the equation. If someone says day, you will say night.

 

[shvu]

But anyway, you are Shvu, you need to always argue the other half of the equation. If someone says day, you will say night.

Simply because of all the ignorance, intolerance and misconceptions found here about other systems and religions. Otherwise I would have no reason to do so. After all it is our solemn duty to make people aware of facts that they are ignorant of. What they want to do with that, is their own business.

 

It is natural that when a person is being shown that he is wrong, his reaction will not be a pleasant one. His garb may be that of a tranquil person, but to actually live upto ideals is a whole different thing.

 

A tip to all: When someone is being sarcastic or intolerant, give them a dose of their own medicine. It always works wonders, as I have observed.

 

Cheers

 

>>> Note from J.N.Das: I accidentally hit 'edit' instead of reply and messed up your post. I was able to find your old post in my browsers cache, so I have reposted it as it was.

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Then the following statement is bad too, because it is saying the exact same thing.

You seem to keep missing the point. No one has criticized someone's personal opinion as to what is right and wrong. I am happy if someone believes they have the only truth and everyone else is going to burn in hell. The flaw is when they condemn others for not accepting their world view, and then expect others to change their beliefs simply because they say so. It is odd that you only see intolerance where it doesn't exist, but when there is a case of actual intolerance, it just misses your eagle like vision.

[Love]

I do not understand why the followers of sanatana dharma have to react to the closed-minded views of someone. I am sure sanatana dharma says that when there is foolish talk do not take it upon yourself to set the fool right. IN the vacuum of non-conversation and when the heat of the topic subsides, the person raising an outcry will himself see the incompetence in his flagrant speech. That is of course, if they sincerely follow their religion.

However, is this not a nice instance of how all the spiritualists reacted to the offensive set off by Mr. Ron? One was a way to go all on the upper level and try to be philosophical about it. Or the other way where our somatic-self reacted by replacing Jesus and Krishna to give an example of how it owuld sound. Even for the sake of an example is this any dharma? How can followers of sanstan dharma forget that dharma is not = religion. Religion is something tha binds you to what needs to be done as per a book written down in the past and is the epitome of everything. Whereas dharma is like a constantly flowing river that keeps ever fresh and new. Dharma is that faint voice inside each one of us which tells us what is the right thing to do. If we all listen inside us, we will find that we all can have different religions but the same dharma that takes us towards becoming more human.

[Love]

It is no trivial matter that India gave birth to various sects and beliefs - Hinduism (broken into Vaishnavas, Shaivites, and so on), Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, etc but they were all tied together with the same sutra - dharma. And it was this that kept all poeple living in Bharat-varsha and having different beliefs to have the same culture. I hope this gives us some insight into the difference between religion and dharma. Even Shankaracharya never rebuffed the people spreading Islam in Sindh through utterly inhuman ways. He simply set about his task of saving Hinduism in his way of setting up the various dham. He thought it wiser than to strain his energies on correcting the Muslim. So, why can;t we take it that it is not unto us to tell the other the correct way. It is only by His grace and wish when someone gets himself enlightened and sees beyond the mediocrity of religion and starts believing in something that suits his existence better - dharma.