Hinduism.org

[dubeyrakesh]

Please visit www.hinduism.org site and see for yourself how openly the sanatan dharma is abused by that B******.

 

Hinduism is getting raped and the irony is that the victim is almost enjoying the rape.

 

We can and will do nothing more than react here in this forum; or wait for Kalki!

 

Mr Das, just a reminder, you havent acknowledged my email sent to you about 2 weeks back.

 

Thanks all,

 

Rakesh.

 

 

 

[dubeyrakesh]

Please note that the domain name is available for sale for only $1.5M

Anyone?

Rakesh.

 

[dasanudas]

This guy not only has a wasp in his bonnet. He has a whole hive of wasps and they're on the war path. The problem with fanatical campaigns like his and other milder ones is that they use half truths which blow out into full blown blaspheme. These are usually the foundations of religious hate campaigns.

They are typical of gathering mud, like wasps instead of extracting the nectar as a true Saragrahi Vaisnava does.

One has to fight against all misconception in spiritual life, victory does'nt just drop in our lap. So Arm yourself with the Lords real grace and knowledge, if you wish to be counted amongst those rare surrendered souls who make it to the shelter of Swayam Bhagavans heart.

As the contoversy heats up in this world it is obvious that the only shelter from such garbage is a genuine sadhu and the Holy Names of The Lord, for everything else will be riddled with the disease of Kali Yuga. This Martya Loka is fast trakking to pralaya.

I remember Srila Sridhara Maharaj stressing, "When the hurricane winds are blowing your tiny shelta away, you must seek out refuge on higher ground," and I would say this is the design of Kali Yuga. If we don't voluntarily come to the point of saranagati then the environment helps us either directly or indirectly.

God help us when these guys decide to take up a career in politics.

Still SM when asked about the fear of world War 3 developing between India and Pakistan

replied quite nonchallantly, "It is just a point on a line"

Altho these people represent a serious malady

to the environment, to a transcendentalist they only confirm the Absolute Reality.

Like all such opposition to Divinity they want your energy and time, but it will serve our eternal welfare far better to give it to the one it belongs- Sri Sri Radha Krsna.

 

In service to the sincere

Gaura Hari bol

[dasanudas]

Dear Dubeyrakesh,

There are many Mr das on these forums I take it you are not referring to me, as I have never received Email from you. Plus I am very hesitant to give my address out in public. There are just to many fundamentalists that don't have access to reason these days.

[Gauracandra]

You know, I might be wrong, but I'm almost positive that www.hinduism.org once belonged to the magazine Hinduism Today. They must have slipped up one day and let the name expire. If I'm right, and they did let it expire, it would say something about their management (heads better have rolled). So then this guy jumped in and bought it for $20 and is using it to attack. Kind of sad, but thats the nature of the world today.

 

Gauracandra

[dubeyrakesh]

Thanks Mr Dasanudas,

I completely agree with your assertion-

This Martya Loka is fast trakking to pralaya.

 

But this thought or approach towards life is literally disastrous for youths like me. I dont know where is my life heading to and where should it head.

 

And does whatever SM stated mean that nothing SHOULD be done for betterment of the current scenario simply because nothing CAN be done. For a human, this is pure pessimism. A trancendentalist may think otherwise. I dont know where I belong or SHOULD belong.

 

You say:If we don't voluntarily come to the point of saranagati then the environment helps us either directly or indirectly.

 

But is that happening? Does not appear that way. More and more of the world is becoming fanatic at a exponential rate.

 

Tommorow is a religious war begins, Hinduism will lose first. It would be like losing even before fighting. Again, for a human, this is pure weakness. And again, a trancendentalist may think otherwise. And still again, I dont know where I belong or SHOULD belong.

 

For the Das controversy, I referred the administrator of the site, Mr J N Das.

 

Since I do not belong to ISCKON, I am not sure if I should give my energy and time to Krsna or one of the other 36Cr-1 gods.

 

Thanks again,

 

Rakesh.

 

Feel free to contact me @ dubeyrakesh@indiadivine.com

 

 

[BDas]

I ran into some info posted from the followers of Ambedkar on line before. Here was one of my replies.

 

February 2001

Dr Ambedkar is a Buddhist and a quasi-Marxist who is a champion of the poor and lower caste people of India. In his political cause he makes the case that the Brahmins over the centuries used the Hindu religion to exploit the masses. This of course is an established fact. However he allies himself with Christians, Moslems, and atheists in his complete condemnation of Hinduism as valid religious philosophy and experience.

 

He uses the same approach as the Christian missionaries to belittle Hindu scriptures and try to turn the faith of the masses toward another what he considers more rational religion. In this case it is not Christianity but Buddhism. He considers Buddhism compatible with Marxism but Hinduism with its entrenched caste mentality and irrational gods and goddesses as incompatible with Marxist philosophy and in a sense “the opiate of the people.”

 

In this analysis he may be correct. Buddhism with its vague conception of enlightenment and its philosophical atheism may in fact be more compatible with Marxism and its anti religious doctrines than the various theistic Hindu religions.

 

But in his zeal to denounce Hinduism Dr. Ambedkar has overlooked what could also be seen as the irrational Buddhist doctrines of multitudes of various Buddhist gods and goddesses that cannot in any way be explained rationally. As well as the many what could be seen as strange devotional and ritualistic practices such as prayer wheels, ceaseless chanting, certain types of meditation and Zen type contemplation. Dr Ambedkar may be well meaning and his work to uplift the poor is certainly laudable. But that does not make him an authority on God and what is good for everyone spiritually. So many politicians have opinions on religion but in a secular state like India or America their opinions don’t mean too much. And in my own humble opinion thank God for that. BDas

 

[BDas]

And here was my reply about Ambedkar's opinion on the immorality found in the stories of Radha-Krishna.

 

March 3, 2001

 

Dr. Ambedkar as a Buddhist and a Marxist must somehow feel duty bound like the Christian missionaries to make a case against Vedic literature and Hinduism in general.

 

Even though the good doctor was born in India and held a high political office it appears that he understood little of the heart of Hinduism. Charitable work or laudable political causes do not necessarily qualify one to understand God or the deeper meaning of any scripture. If it did certainly the Christians would understand everything from all the charitable work they do and become allies with the Buddhists who Dr. Ambedkar feels have the answer. We see however this is not the case.

 

On his website Ambedkar devotes much energy to deriding the Vedas and now we see he is having his turn against the Puranas. The Puranas are easy prey for anyone who wants to make an academic case against them. They are full of stories, parables, allegory as well as the realizations of the saints who were devoted to each particular Deity. They are not presented in any chronological order and the various stories from one Purana sometimes appear to contradict those of another. On top of this the possibility of interpolation must be considered when reading the Puranas or any scripture for that matter. (Buddhist and Christian included) Later additions and subtractions as well as the propaganda from the various sects have the ability to obscure the real message of the Puranas.

 

The message not understood and obscured here by Dr Ambedkar is about Radha-Krishna and the nature of Divine Love. It is true that from any mundane moral viewpoint their love was not within the boundaries of acceptable social norms. But we are not advised to consider their love by that standard. The love of Radha-Krishna is found in the 10th canto of the Bhagavata Purana. In order to understand their love it is advised that we begin by reading the first nine cantos of that literature in order to develop our Theological understanding of Radha-Krishna.

 

And even before reading the Bhagavata we are advised to understand the position of Krishna from reading Bhagavad Gita. There Krishna is revealed not as an ordinary man but as Param Brahma, an incarnation of the Supreme.

 

In Bhagavad Gita you will find that all living beings are proclaimed the property of God (Krishna) that they are part of God (Krishna) and are in God (Krishna) and Krishna says they are Mine. (BG 4:35)

 

Only if you understand and acknowledge this verse and other similar verses from Bhagavad Gita can you begin to understand the love of Radha-Krishna.

 

Radha-Krishna is not an ordinary affair. It is meant to illustrate how one should abandon all for the sake of loving and serving God. Good name, fame, family, society and mundane love are all by-products of material existence and sooner or later they will have to be given up. The only thing that is eternal is the love between the soul and the Supreme Soul. Even dharma itself is secondary to that love and therefore in Bhagavad-Gita we find that Krishna tells us to give up all varieties of dharma and simply surrender to Him. He will protect and save us. He is our shelter. (BG 18:66)

 

The love of Radha-Krishna is the epitome of this verse from Bhagavad-Gita. Radha rejects everything for the love of Krishna and Krishna gives Her eternal shelter. This is the theological understanding of Radha-Krishna.

 

Dr. Ambedkar was a Buddhist and absorbed in his political cause, which he transferred into a case against Hinduism in general therefore he was unable to find any beauty in the conception of Radha-Krishna. Anyone with a superficial understanding can make a case against any scripture. Only those with some depth can find beauty and truth in all scripture. BDas

 

[Ananga]

Someone ought to sue the pants off the oafish lout. He probably does not even have the resources to mount any kind of legal defense, which means a court action would drive him and his ridiculous campaign into oblivion.

[dasanudas]

Dandavats,

Dear Rakesh, altho I'm not in youthful body,we are all in the same boat that is, birth, disease, old age and death. The main thing is to dive within ourself to truly realize your eternal identity as loving servant of the servant of God. Instead of just theoreticly understanding this we must practicly realize it and live it to the uttmost of our God-given ability. We are not Hindhu, Buddhist, Christian or Moslem we must transcend all bodily ID, in doing so Krsna will undoubtedly give full protection from all confusion, for He does exist, He does love us, and is our very dear friend, more than we could ever measure. His instruction in the Gita is perfect and applies to all souls, regardless of religious persuasion.

Just the fact that out of billions of souls in human form on this planet you are are here with some interest in the Theistic conception of Krsna consciosness, no matter whether you have any thing to do with Iskcon, this in itself is a sign of where your life may be heading.

As to where it should be heading that's for you to decide with the help of those you can trust. If you have some faith in an eternal life then there is a place where those of similar faith are reciprocating their love with each other and the One that gave us life and love to exchange. We are all part of that organic whole family and it is a hopeful life with much bright prospect for all.If we can find some fellow travelers on the journey with a common destination we may arrive happily in good spirit.

 

Unlike many youth today who feel helpless and hopeless, torn with conflicting fickle beliefs, and disapointing hypocritical rolemodels. One can draw vast inspiration and encouragment from those truly practising KC.If we sincerely want good company the sweet Lord in our heart will arrange it.

 

I can empathise with your anxiety as I have children myself that are faced with this worldly dilemna every day and sometimes their trials and doubts plummet me into a deep well of despair how to console them.

 

R:And does whatever SM stated mean that nothing SHOULD be done for betterment of the current scenario simply because nothing CAN be done. For a human, this is pure pessimism. A trancendentalist may think otherwise. I dont know where I belong or SHOULD belong.

 

Das: SM just like Krsna doesn't advocate inaction. Rather we should wholeheartedly do all we can to engage in positive service to the whole environment, meaning thru service to the centre we can serve all. We can only do the best we can to continue broadcasting what we have in our hand be it faith or friendship, in the face of an overwhelming opposition of gloom.

We have to try to make the best of a bad bargain. But ultimately once again like Krsnas advice, don't be attached to the fruits of your actions or the worlds'actions, or it will swallow you.

Altho all this insanity may not be the will of divinity, if it comes to pass we must accept the call of providence, like those on the battlefield of Kuruksetra, and know that we have done what we can to avert a ruinous end. But try to always remain like the lotus that grows in the water without touching it. Again that means Yukta Vairagya not withdrawal- but positive action, dovetailing all we do to the will of the Lord.

 

R:You say:If we don't voluntarily come to the point of saranagati then the environment helps us either directly or indirectly.

 

But is that happening? Does not appear that way. More and more of the world is becoming fanatic at a exponential rate.

 

das: In many ways everyones' awareness of the problems we are faced with has heightened multifold. In this sense many millions of souls thru the sheer weight of the dilemna are coming to realize the need for higher solutions, higher harmony to pacify the tentions, to clarify the confusion, to enlighten the ignorance. When we realize that fanaticism of religious and political fervour only exacerbate the problem, we can then come to the door of the gist of the Bagavad Gita.

Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja

If we realize we are not the controller then some of us move on to surrender that control to the Supreme controller. Unfortunatly some don't evolve to a healthier state and will take up where they left off in a future birth.

But Krsna has stated "Out of many thousands who endeavour for perfection, few reach it and of those very few come to know Me in Truth" so we should'nt expect that all will happily march voluntarily into the promised land.

 

R:Tommorow if a religious war begins, Hinduism will lose first. It would be like losing even before fighting. Again, for a human, this is pure weakness. And again, a trancendentalist may think otherwise. And still again, I dont know where I belong or SHOULD belong.

 

das: To start with we should'nt live our life in fear or apprehension of the future, as it will steal from the present, if we can direct our life towards the Lord and helping all his children, then that is the beginning of a real devotional, brahminical life of goodness that with time becomes pure goodness, which can truly help others struggling in the modes of material nature.

The more we give our life to the centre, the more the centre-Krsna will reciprocate in kine, giving us all that we need, whether it be peace, purpose, fullfillment, devotion, faith, happiness, friends, well wishers, guardians, wisdom, understanding, harmony or love. It all comes from the reservoir of all good qualities. And He is Personal.

 

R: Since I do not belong to ISCKON, I am not sure if I should give my energy and time to Krsna or one of the other 36Cr-1 gods.

 

Again we don't have to belong to Iskcon to give our life to Krsna. And personally to tell you the truth to start with I never gave my life to the Name Krsna either.

Initially when I was following the teachings of Jesus which in essence is to love the Father with all your heart and soul, my curiosity grew as Jesus seemed to be having a personal spiritual relationship with his father in heaven. And he advocated Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened. Ask and it shall be given. So I decided to put his words to the test and ask him directly and relentlessly if I was likewise one of His children to please reveal this Lord and father you personally are praying to, for I will accept nothing short of the Absolute Truth, all relative temporary conceptions of divinity should be eliminated and only the Lord of all Lords remain.

At that time, what i consider to be a divine crystal clear revelation of the beautiful form of both Jesus and Krsna together manifest in Their consciousness for me. Of course If you tell a so-called Christian this they will quote their scripture saying no man can see the face of God and live. Which may well be true if you understand SM's Die to Live conception. But my answer to that is that actually no man has begun to live untill he sees the beautiful face of God. And there is not a soul on this planet that will convince me that Krsna is not Swayam Bhagavan. I continue to check and confirm every time the relative truth challenges the Absolute. Never to just blindly accept anything and everything in the Name of The Absolute.

I didn't need any scriptual encouragement or confirmation, i knew very little of Krsna's existence prior to this experience. Reality Himself is convincing enough for me. For others it may be different, however He wishes to present Himself to his millions of aspirants. His mercy and mystical splendour is unlimited.

An interesting cover note to this little story is that later on in life I returned to the house I grew up in where my mother would nurse me to sleep while i gazed out the window at the vast expanse of stars wondering about God, eternity and the tiny spark that I am within it. I had received a commission to do an air brush graphic for a glossy magazine called 'Simply Living.'

that was now the publishers 'Sri media' stationed in my childhood home. Being exited to see that place where i grew up, when I arrived I went to the window where used to sleep, to find a full air brushed curtain of you know who, very beautifully. In India this could be common, but in Australia it was probably the only curtain of Krsna in the country.

I hope this does'nt appear to be pretentious

as this was a very humbling event in my life. The point of me sharing this is to just try to express how much Krsna loves us and really does'nt want us to forget Him. What it immediately emanated to me seeing him there was that, 'I am with you always, whether you know it or not' from this moment into eternity.

 

Namaste

dasanudas

 

 

Hindhuism just like Buddhism and so many other isms may ultimately be sacrificed for a deeper conception of Theism but still there should always be respectable recognition of those steps to the higher plane of Truth.

 

 

[sushil_kanoria]

cool Rakesh cool, Now visit the below site & let me know your opinion about it.

 

 

www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

 

Hari Bol,

Sushil.

[animesh]

Rakesh,

The contents of both the sites (the one whose link is provided by Rakesh and the one whose link is provided by you) are extremely bad.

 

Just because we are Hindus, it will not be fair if we think that non-Hindus have no right to write anything against Hinduism but Hindus have evry right to write whatever they feel like against other religions.

[dubeyrakesh]

Dear Sushil and Animesh,

 

The link you provided is already displayed on www.hinduism.org as one of the parameters against Hinduism.

 

My logic is simple:

If M F Hussain paints nude pictures of Saraswati, itk OK because freedom of expression is a fundamental right of an Indian irrespective of whether he is a Hindu or Muslim etc. But you dare not utter a word against other religions because it might hurt their sentiments. Or because they may come out with swords ready to kill or die. I dont know if and how is it possible to hurt a Hindu. Hindus are "unhurtable".

 

If the Ram mandir was brought down for constructing a Mosque, its OK. But you dare not think about constructing a temple again because its against secularism.

 

 

I once again state that there is a basic flaw in Hinduism: Respect all religions except Hinduism. Or more specifically, limit your respect to forums like these etc. Respect only till the point you as an individual is not hurt. This applies to 99% of Hindus. There are exceptions always.

 

Making it simpler: People in general are becoming individualistic. Individualism differs from individual to indivudual. A "Hindu" individualistic person will give a damn to his religion (forget "do or die"). People belonging to other religion have their religion within theri Individuality at least to some extent.

 

Do reply.

 

Animesh,

I agree with what you say. But what happens actually is -

Just because you are human, it will be fair if we think that huamns have a right to write anything against Hinduism but Hindus have no right to write whatever they feel like against other religions.

This applies to 99%. There are exceptions.

 

Mr Dasanudas,

Thanks for your more "realistic" reply.

That helped.

I have some question which I will post soon.

 

Thanks,

 

Rakesh.

 

[shvu]

 

If the Ram mandir was brought down for constructing a Mosque, its OK. But you dare not think about constructing a temple again because its against secularism.

It was hindu BJP people who bought the Babri masjid down. Also remember how the Shiv sena guys attacked muslims in 1992?

 

I once again state that there is a basic flaw in Hinduism: Respect all religions except Hinduism. Or more specifically, limit your respect to forums like these etc. Respect only till the point you as an individual is not hurt. This applies to 99% of Hindus. There are exceptions always.

One thing to consider. In spite of being under the rule of a fanatic religion like Islam for centuries, Hindus have protected hinduism from deterioration. I am sure you know the story of why there are only pundits in Kashmir and no other types of Hindus. On the other hand there are stories of a fanatic Shaiva king [don't remember the name] who killed several Buddhists because they were not Hindu.

 

The point is, people are the same all over the world. Every religion has both kinds of followers, meek and fanatic.

 

Cheers

 

[Jagat]

The point is, people are the same all over the world. Every religion has both kinds of followers, meek and fanatic.

But surely not only.

 

 

[Jagat]

Originally posted by shvu:

On the other hand there are stories of a fanatic Shaiva king [don't remember the name] who killed several Buddhists because they were not Hindu.

There are several stories of such events. I have not collected them. There were also persecutions of Jains in South India, which I understand led them to move to Gujarat.

 

But I was particularly interested by the story that King Prataparudra, Mahaprabhu's devotee in Jagannath Puri, is said to have persecuted Buddhists in Orissa. This is found in the Madala Panji, but unfortunately I didn't note the secondary source. Perhaps K. C. Panigrahi.

 

Orissa was one of the last outposts of a rather folk or popular Buddhism in the 16th century. There are still vestiges of this Buddhism in the Jagannath cult.

 

This is most significantly discernable in the writings of the Pancha Sakha, the Orissan Vaishnavas, who claimed to be followers of Chaitanya, but are considered an apasampradaya by all Gaudiyas.

 

There is an Orissan Chaitanya Bhagavata, written by Ishwar Das, where he says that Mahaprabhu is an incarnation of the Buddha! Jagannath Das and others often say that Jagannath Deva is the Buddha, and inside the temple itself, there is a painting of the Das Avatar that shows Jagannath in the ninth position -- that of the Buddha!

 

All this leads me to think that perhaps Prataparudra's persecution of the Buddhists led many of them to take to Vaishnavism, and insinuate their doctrines (Shunya-vada and certain Vajra-yana ideas) into it.

 

==

 

There is also Gopal Singh, the famous Bengali king of Vishnupur, a descendant of King Bir Hambir, who was converted by Srinivas Acharya. There is a Bengali expression, "Gopal Singher begar", which means basically "Gopal Singh's corvée."

 

Gopal Singh ordered every male in his kingdom to chant a lakh (perhaps that is an exaggeration) of Harinam every day. So now the expression is used in a variety of ways to indicate religious activities that are done under duress, or just basically any useless activity.

 

Haribol!!

 

Jagat

 

[Jagat]

“Raja Prataparudra was a staunch supporter of Hinduism. We learn from Stirling’s “Orissa” that although the followers of Buddhism were at first received with favor and treated with marked consideration by Prataparudra Deva, they were afterwards persecuted by his court. It was the dread of persecution by the king that compelled the Buddhist priests to seek shelter in concealment. And to evade these persecutions and avoid incurring the displeasure and disfavor of the Brahmins, the common Buddhist people played the hypocrite by adopting the religious observances and practices of the Hindus. The enormous influence of Buddhism began to wane.”

 

Sahajiya Cult of Bengal and Pancha Sakha Cult of Orissa. Paritosh Das. Calcutta: Firma KLM, 1988. p. 182.

 

[animesh]

Rakesh,

I am not saying that it is OK if someone tries to hurt the sentiments of Hindus. It is bad if someone hurts the sentiments of Hindus. Also, it is bad if Hindus hurt the sentiments of others. I remember that in one thread jndas ji posted an email sent to him by a Christian priest who believed that non-Christians were deluded. My replies in that thread showed that I took exception to his calling Hindus as deluded. Now, please tell me:- If somebody writes anything against Hinduism then I take umbrage. But, if Hindus write anything against others, then I do not consider it bad. Do you think it will be fair if I do this?

 

I do not agree that freedom of expression should be taken to such an extreme that we start hurting sentiments of others. I agree with you that very often the word "secularism" is used in a biased sense. But the reason is completely political, or to be more specific, to gain more votes.

 

 

[animesh]

Very often we talk about respecting one's religion. What do we mean by that? As I have found, people think that if they call their religion as the only correct religion and criticize all other religions, then they have great respect for their religion. Please tell me. How many of these people really follow the teachings of their religion. A large no. of them are content with just following some of the rituals.

 

In Bhagwad Gita (and other Hindu scriptures also), there are many verses which tell us how one should behave. How many of the Hindus who claim to be proud of being Hindu really do what these verses tell them to do?

This question can be asked not only to Hindus but to people of other religions as well.

The phrase "respect for one's religion" is very often used as an euphemism.

[dubeyrakesh]

Shvu,

 

I am not saying here that demoloshing of Babri Masjid was correct. I know that the BJP HINDUS brought down the Mosque. I know what happened during the 1992 riots. But a Gandhian approach doesnt work against a Aurangzebian. If you pamper a child over a certain limit, he is bound to pounce on you once he knows he can. Hinduism is good but it should not project itself as weak.

 

Somehow there is a pattern emerging in India that Hinduism is religion of the weak. When Kamla Das embraced Islam, the coverage that the media gave was overwhelming. What were we trying to prove? A classic example of "victim enjoying the rape"

 

Amitabh Bachchan once asked a question in Kaun Banega Crorepati:

Whose name was Dilip Kumar before he became a famous Music director in Bollywood? Answer was A R Rehman. The Big B went on to add that how A R Rehman embraced Islam and all that crap. My question is that just like care about someone in our family, do we share anything on the religion level? No. Have we tried to think why someone embraces other religion? No.

 

Why should we? Its not bothering us as an individual. Moreover religion is something personal. Correct? No.

 

 

Somehow "rejecting" Hinduism - insulting pandits, literature etc - is emerging as a fashion in India. Its common in movies and tele serials.

 

 

All people in this forum are intelligent above average. But intelligent is not just speaking intelligently. You also need to ACT against something wrong.

 

Let me be more clear-

Hindus are secular. That means we treat all religions equally INCLUDING HINDUISM. Simple.

 

 

My younger brother once made a very "realistic" statement that while religion unites other people it divides Hindus. I think he is one person alive who thinks about these issues more intelligently than me.

 

I believe that the creator of Hinduism had all this in mind when he created it. But I want to have answer as to what he thought about these issues.

 

You said:

One thing to consider. In spite of being under the rule of a fanatic religion like Islam for centuries, Hindus have protected hinduism from deterioration. I am sure you know the story of why there are only pundits in Kashmir and no other types of Hindus. On the other hand there are stories of a fanatic Shaiva king [don't remember the name] who killed several Buddhists because they were not Hindu.

 

My question is does Hinduism always need to be "protected"? Can it not become strong enough to protect someone else? Or to fight the "stronger" wrong?

Are our 36Cr weaker than Allah or Jesus so that they should be protected always?

Crap. The fact that you are giving reasons makes me feel weak.

 

Lastly, I dont know why there are only pundits and no other Hindus in Kashmir. Please lemme know.

 

 

Thanks Jagat for you are someone who is close to reality,

 

Rakesh

 

[Jagat]

We seem to be going through another version of the "don't offend my guru" syndrome.

 

There is little doubt that there is much in all the major religions that can be subjected to criticism, ridicule and rebuke. But if these things are handled incorrectly, then people take the criticisms personally.

 

There are few people who like to be called misogynist, yet all the major religions have misogynistic elements. Is it possible to reform a religion? If I am a Christian-Hindu-Muslim, do I have to be a misogynist because the Bible-Purana-Quran make misogynistic statements?

 

This places all of us in a quandary. If we are in a position of defending our Faith simply because it is our Faith, it is just another upAdhi.

 

If we interact dynamically with our own faith, then we won't fall prey to senseless criticism. The only thing that we can condemn is blind hate. And there is plenty of that.

 

But if Ambedkar had problems with Hinduism, I can appreciate it. I consider Ambedkar to be a great man, and I believe that there are a great many Hindus who feel the same way. Casteism is something of a scourge. Ambedkar was looking for a way out of the bind, and he couldn't find one in Hinduism.

 

Unfortunately, Buddhism has not proved to be a magic bullet, either. But the Dalits have gained a voice through Ambedkar's leadership. Perhaps one day they will gain true social equality in India. Until then, expect no sympathy for Hinduism from the Dalits. Give no respect, expect none in return.

 

Islam is a mystery for most non-Muslims. There seems to be no way to penetrate the Islamic mind. Intransigeance and non-compromise seems to be the password everywhere around the world. I can't really say anything here without the appearance of prejudice. Let's just say that Islam is taking a long time to come into the modern world.

 

Militant Hinduism is in part the result of militant Islam. It is a mirror image. Perhaps it is a necessity. Muslims have always considered the Hindus (and Pakistanis even the Bangladeshis) as weak and effeminate. A strong, military powerful India keeps Pakistan on its toes.

 

I think that India was correct to take the secular track, but made a major error when they compromised on Sharia law and other things.

 

Haribol, Jagat

 

 

 

[sushil_kanoria]

hare Krishna Rakesh,

First of all let me tell you, demolition of Babri masjid was a right thing.

I don't know Rakesh why you are tring to pose yourself as a very soft hearted man.

your sentence,

 

"I am not saying here that demolishing of Babri Masjid was correct"

 

really hearted me.

I never expected this from you.

First of all, I ask those people how many times they go to temple in a day, in a week, in a month or in a year??? who says

demolition of Babri masjid was not correct.

Ask us we will tell you !!

Sir, has that place an ordinary one we would have given up the issue, but that is a birth place of Ram, & no compromise with that place.

" KASAM RAM KI KHATE HAI, MANDIR WAHI BANATE HAI"

I can give up my life for that place & also I can take anybody's life for that place.

I hate those hindu people who says

"demolition of Babri Masjid was not correct"

Such type of people just try to be shophisticated, they are real rascals.

I am extremely sorry if I have heart anybody's sentiments, but I was unable to control myself.

Rakesh I was aghast, when you you quoted that, because If one's blood can boil just seeing that(Hinduism.org) site, how one can say that

"demolition of Babri Masjid was not correct"

I pity you, just don't give any statement under anyone's pressure.

"RAM LALAA HUM AAYENGE MANDIR WAHI BANAYENGE"

& after the completion of Temple, We will move to Krishna janam bhumi which is at Mathura.

 

Jai Shri Ram,

Sushil.

 

[This message has been edited by sushil_kanoria (edited 07-05-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by sushil_kanoria (edited 07-05-2001).]

[shvu]

 

Hi Rakesh,

 

I see no atttitude problems in Hindus towards Hinduism. I think people are the same everywhere. Perhps we just see things differently or maybe I am missing something.

 

****

 

Kashmir was conquered by Shamsuddin Shah in around 1320 or so. One of his successors, around 1390 or so was Sikander Sultan. This Sikander was one of the worst genocides the world has ever known, definitely the most fanatical muslim in the fanatical history of Islam. He said, all in his country must be muslim or die.

 

He slaughtered thousands of Hindus, destroyed every single temple existing in kashmir and broke all the idols. He was universally known and detested as the "idol breaker". Every Hindu in kashmir either converted to Islam or ran away to India in terror. Especially, all the Pandits from this great center of learning chose to flee rather than convert. Craftsmen's guilds converted en masse to Islam. Other caste Hindus not willing to convert also ran away and there was a mass exodus. At the end of his 20 year rule, there was not a single Hindu left in kashmir, all were Muslim or dead.

 

His successor was one Zian ul abdeen, a great scholar though muslim. The court he inherited was without scholars or poets or men of learning, only barbaric military commanders were left. Shocked at the complete absence of learning, this ruler lured back the Pandits to the valley, allowing them to build temples and practice their religion again.

 

That is why the only Hindus in kashmir are Pandits, he wanted to only the learned. The present day Pandits are the progeny of these invited scholars.

 

Cheers

 

[dubeyrakesh]

Great spirit Sushil,

 

But posting here in this forum is different than doing it. You try it and , forget muslims or christians, Hindus will be the first ones to slaughter you in case you dare.

 

And Shvu, you did not mention why does Hinduism always need to be protected? Do you agree that it should be that way?

 

A Child needs to be protected by his parents. But when he grows up, its his duty to protect his parents when they become weak. What say ya?

 

Rakesh

 

[shvu]

 

And Shvu, you did not mention why does Hinduism always need to be protected? Do you agree that it should be that way?

You were/are of the opinion that the attitude of Hindus towards Hinduism is not good, in general. I gave a couple of examples to show that it is not true for hindus have stood well against dire conditions. Hinduism needed protection at one time for it was threatened by some fanatic people who had political power. But now no religion is threatened by force and so no protection is needed by any religion.

 

A Child needs to be protected by his parents. But when he grows up, its his duty to protect his parents when they become weak. What say ya?

Correct, but I don't see the relevance of this example here.

 

Cheers