shvu Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Some use to argue that Radha is Hari’s soul, or the atma of His body. Who is the soul of Radha? I have long since wondered about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Originally posted by shvu: Who is the soul of Radha? I have long since wondered about this. Yes some here will have a readymade textbook answer to your question. Let us prefer to relish it without quotations this poem of a question. . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanpeter Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Originally posted by shvu: Who is the soul of Radha? I have long since wondered about this. The soul of Radhika is Her girlfriends' devotion for Her. This can only be relished by becoming one with them heart-to-heart and recognizing Her supreme postion in relation to Krsna. For some the divine loving pastimes all point to this conclusion, while others negate even the existence of such personal activities. How then can they ever expect to understand the exteme intimacy expressed in these relationships, where `Godness` would be an impediment? Most seek God only to relieve pain and increase their enjoyment. That power known as Sri Radha cannot be attained by those with such motives. That is why purification is required, and it is obtained through Her associates and the Holy Names. Which of us would appreciate a close friend that wants only to study us or use us to get something, then always leaves us alone? How about a girl that becomes intimate with another just so she can enjoy her boyfriend? Love of Love for the sake of Love is the ultimate goal for true devotees. Personalize that and you have Goloka Vrndavana which is pure Hladini potency; in other words, Srimati Radharani Herself. valaya RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted October 4, 2001 Report Share Posted October 4, 2001 Hare Krisna by all! At you as always as on maximum planets. the wise Men discuss aspects of true. Satyaradja Prabhu, Hari (Krisna) God it is true, I wish a victory. We shall go soon on the south of Russia to a community, we shall decide(solve) still where to remain. There 120 devotee, the Internet can also we shall make, I do not know. Valaya Prabhu, Krisna does not worry about separation, as He is more independent. - "When Uddhava saw the condition of the gopis and went back to report to Krsna to beg Him to go back to Vrndavana saying " they have so much love for You, why don't You go see them? " Krsna replied, " actually there is no use to go there now. If I go there now it will cause more problems. First of all they will not recognize Me because they are in such a blazing fire of separation that doesn't make any difference whether I am with them or not. And secondly, somehow if they come to know that I have arrived then they will feel intense misery because they will think that I have arrived but I may leave again. Instead of enjoying My association, this fear will be so intense in their minds that they will actually become crazy. They will think, as I left previously I may leave again. For these reasons it is better if I don't go. " This is the state of anuraga which is sometimes called bhava." The description mahabhava.- "Then when this anuraga becomes further increased, when it gives umparaleled bliss to the devotee that he is completely surprised, so much that he goes completely mad, he is not anymore in his normal consciousness, this stage is called maha-bhava. When one attains this stage of maha-bhava even one moment of separation is intolerable for him. This was the case of the gopis cursing Lord Brahma for making the eyelids blink. This was also in the prayer of Lord Caitanya yugaitam nimisenam, one moment seems like a yuga. And when the devotee remains in asscotiation with the Lord for millions of years it appears to him as only one moment. Actually time has no divisions. There is no such things as past, present and future; we make these divisions. Sometimes ourselves have the experience of time passing slow or very fast. Time is a continuous energy of the Lord but everyone experiences it differently. In the transcendental world time is there and in the stage of maha-bhava one single moment appears like a yuga. And this yuga appears empty, nothing can give solace to the devotee. A kalpa or day of Brahma appears like a second for the devotee when he is with the Lord. And in separation, one second appears like a kalpa. " They do not think about Radha. they think about Krisna. With whom separation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Talasigaji: After the crossing over the water Will the Waitress quench our thirst ? Or will she greet our safest passage By drowning us all with her tears ? Satyaraj: I was thinking in the answer all day long. It is indeed a deep point. The only response I dare to give is: “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes. We may cry or laugh, He sports as He likes! This Waitress can give us poison! Won’t it be a romantic end, or a funny beginning?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 5, 2001 Report Share Posted October 5, 2001 Satyaraj: This Waitress can give us poison! Talasiga: Yes ! However, methinks, poison in a homeopathic dose ..... Satyaraj: Won’t it be a romantic end, or a funny beginning? Talasiga: Indeed ! On the question of endings and beginnings, please consider:- Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 6: However great our landing She is already there Ready to leave it ! ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2001 Report Share Posted October 6, 2001 Talasigaji: However great our landing She is already there Ready to leave it ! Satyaraj: “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes.” Not only great landings, but even great seaings. Someone once has waited for Hari for many Kalpas into the bottom of the sea only to fight with Him! He did known that Hari has already hidden into his heart. The most amazing point is that he was killed by Hari! How could Hari kill him and at the same time remain into his heart forever? Was He already there and ready to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 7, 2001 Report Share Posted October 7, 2001 Satyaraj: “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes.” Not only great landings, but even great seaings. Someone once has waited for Hari for many Kalpas into the bottom of the sea only to fight with Him! He did known that Hari has already hidden into his heart. The most amazing point is that he was killed by Hari! How could Hari kill him and at the same time remain into his heart forever? Was He already there and ready to leave? Talasiga: Yes, let us look at at Mundak Upanishad 2:2:4 "Om - the mystic syllable - is the bow; the self within, the arrow; and Brahman, the target. One should hit that mark with an undistracted mind, and like the arrow, become one with It." (Swami Sarvananda translation, Sri Ramakrishna Math, ISBN 81-7120-159-8) We already know that Om is the Brahman but here, if we accept this mantra, Om is the bow and Brahman the target. Just like your questions we may also ask, "How can Hari be the bow and also always the target ? Is He already in the bow ready to leave it ?" On this inquiry it may be helpful to refer to the preliminary peace mantra in the Eeshaa Upanishad (Om poornamadah poornamidam......) which turns on the intuition of the Absolute being always Absolute despite absolute derivations. In this way, on a lighter note, we may also come to: Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 7:- The Ferryman does Leave her to remember her to reach her. ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-07-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Talasigaji: "How can Hari be the bow and also always the target ? Is He already in the bow ready to leave it ?" Satyaraj: It is stated: “there are two forms of Hari...” (Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 2.3.1) But he existence of something other than Hari is expressly denied. And sruti text employs neti, neti to deny the existence of all objects. Is sruti denying Hari Himself? For certain the only conciliatory way to feel these sruti texts is to turn on the intuition of the Absolute being always Absolute despite absolute derivations. Talasigaji: The Ferryman does Leave her to remember her to reach her. Satyaraj: By following the reasoning above, the Ferry, the Ferryman and Radha are Absolute in spite of absolute derivations. As, “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes,” isn’t sayujiya itself a constant game of to leave, to remember and to reach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: Talasigaji: "How can Hari be the bow and also always the target ? Is He already in the bow ready to leave it ?" Satyaraj: It is stated: “there are two forms of Hari...” (Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 2.3.1) But he existence of something other than Hari is expressly denied. And sruti text employs neti, neti to deny the existence of all objects. Is sruti denying Hari Himself? For certain the only conciliatory way to feel these sruti texts is to turn on the intuition of the Absolute being always Absolute despite absolute derivations. Talasigaji: The Ferryman does Leave her to remember her to reach her. Satyaraj: By following the reasoning above, the Ferry, the Ferryman and Radha are Absolute in spite of absolute derivations. As, “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes,” isn’t sayujiya itself a constant game of to leave, to remember and to reach? Absolutely!...I think...RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Talasiga: On this inquiry it may be helpful to refer to the preliminary peace mantra in the Eeshaa Upanishad (Om poornamadah poornamidam......) which turns on the intuition of the Absolute being always Absolute despite absolute derivations. Satyaraj: By following the reasoning above, the Ferry, the Ferryman and Radha are Absolute in spite of absolute derivations. As, “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes,” isn’t sayujiya itself a constant game of to leave, to remember and to reach? Valaya: Absolutely!...I think... Talasiga: Yes, I mean, who would engage in the ecstasy of remembrance when the one who is to be remembered is within presence ? Does not rememberance require separation, if not <u>actual</u>, then, at least <u>apparent</u> ? Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 8: Is the Ferry circling at the One Dock As the Dancer spins at the One Shrine ? ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted October 8, 2001 Report Share Posted October 8, 2001 Yoga-maya or Maha-maya, both are aspects of Sri Radha without whom Krsna's pastimes would not exist. So-called `mayavadis` may contemplate His pastimes and chant the Holy Names as well, however their motivation and therefore destination, is quite different. The absolute truth exists as impersonal(one) and personal(diverse), described as `acintya-bhedabheda-tattva`. While the personal conception includes the impersonal, the same cannot be said in reverse. Thus one is clearly superior in every respect. Still there are those who appear to prefer the impersonal, mainly because they have not truly experienced the personal, for whatever reason. All theorizing aside, the proof remains in the tasting, as always. Haribol! valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-08-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 “Yoga-maya or Maha-maya, both are aspects of Sri Radha without whom Krsna's pastimes would not exist. So-called `mayavadis` may contemplate His pastimes and chant the Holy Names as well, however their motivation and therefore destination, is quite different.” (Valaya) To that assertive we would say: “Also sprach Zaratrustra!” (And so has stated Zaratrustra!) Now your Radha was transferred to the Zoroastrism. She is a dual goddess with a good and an evil aspect. And good people may worship her and have a good destiny and evil people may have another destiny while worshiping her. This conception was imported from Islam and it was mixed with some Tantra in West Bengal. It is not Vedic. Vedanta strongly rejects this theory of dual saktis as the cause of Hari’s pastimes. It would be considered as a very serious heresy refuted by Vyasadeva himself. Why to insist in that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: “Yoga-maya or Maha-maya, both are aspects of Sri Radha without whom Krsna's pastimes would not exist. So-called `mayavadis` may contemplate His pastimes and chant the Holy Names as well, however their motivation and therefore destination, is quite different.” (Valaya) To that assertive we would say: “Also sprach Zaratrustra!” (And so has stated Zaratrustra!) Now your Radha was transferred to the Zoroastrism. She is a dual goddess with a good and an evil aspect. And good people may worship her and have a good destiny and evil people may have another destiny while worshiping her. This conception was imported from Islam and it was mixed with some Tantra in West Bengal. It is not Vedic. Vedanta strongly rejects this theory of dual saktis as the cause of Hari’s pastimes. It would be considered as a very serious heresy refuted by Vyasadeva himself. Why to insist in that point? Not so much a question of `insistence` as personal realization, prabhu. Your learning, and probably intelligence as well, far exceeds mine. I can only speak from my own experience which I believe was obtained through His Divine Grace and confirmed by scriptures that you appear unable to place any faith in. Still, in spite of our discussions here, something/someone deep inside me remains unshakeable. It can't be my mind, because that's becoming more and more inoperable day by day as this body ages. Nor can it be intelligence, for who with any intelligence would choose to live such a wretched miserable life as mine. No, I think it must have to do with heart and that, Satyaraja, is where you may be sadly lacking. No offense intended. valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Valaya: Not so much a question of `insistence` as personal realization, prabhu. Satyaraj: By personal realization one should understand moksa. Are you a mukta? Do you really sport with Hari within the samvyoma of your heart? Are you creating your own worlds there and are fit to invite all the other jivas to live there and to also sport with Hari in same mood that you are doing? For certain I cannot place someone into my heart to sport any lila with Hari. Therefore I am heartless! I am not a mukta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: For certain I cannot place someone into my heart to sport any lila with Hari. Therefore I am heartless! I am not a mukta. A mukta is someone who is liberated to a point Where no defintions will fit him/her. (Ahem ! Such is my definition ! OOps ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted October 9, 2001 Report Share Posted October 9, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: Valaya: Not so much a question of `insistence` as personal realization, prabhu. Satyaraj: By personal realization one should understand moksa. Are you a mukta? Do you really sport with Hari within the samvyoma of your heart? Are you creating your own worlds there and are fit to invite all the other jivas to live there and to also sport with Hari in same mood that you are doing? For certain I cannot place someone into my heart to sport any lila with Hari. Therefore I am heartless! I am not a mukta. Dear Satyaraja prabhu, what more can I say here? Too much has been said already... I'm just nothing going nowhere, but something did happen to me and I can't deny it nor escape from it's consequences. I thought my heart was made of stone, if indeed I even had one, but it was melted in a moment in front of the diety of Sri Radha (Radha-Gopinath in Toronto). Of course, at that point it was really a matter of life or death... I was so acutely aware of my offensive nature and absolute need for Her mercy. Everything works together ultimately for the best, though mostly I find that difficult to accept. As you kindly keep reminding us, it's all dependent on the free will of Hari and His Divine Grace is essential. Please don't think that any of your experiences, including those with various gurus, will not eventually prove to be incomprehendably valuable. It all comes together in the end and then a new beginning starts. That's my limited realization so far, anyway. I do not mean to appear condescending or patronizing or whatever. Sometimes I just feel a kind of melancholy for all of us caught up in this. Like the song says, "Love Hurts! valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2001 Report Share Posted October 10, 2001 Talasigaji: A mukta is someone who is liberated to a point Where no defintions will fit him/her. Satyaraj: That is a brilliant definition fit for a mukta! If he has attained mukti and the absorption into the Ultimate Reality he is fit to be defined like Hari, i.e, only by employing the neti, neti system: “This is not the end.” That’s to say, all definitions won’t attain the Truth attained by a mukta, who has became as good as the Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 10, 2001 Report Share Posted October 10, 2001 Satyaraj: That’s to say, all definitions won’t attain the Truth attained by a mukta, who has became as good as the Truth. Talasiga: In this vein we can come to:- Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 9: The furthest the Ferry reaches is the best of those It would carry ..... . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 18, 2001 Report Share Posted October 18, 2001 Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 10: With neither punter's pole nor paddle wheel Neither sail nor oar Is it Her waiting glance That draws the ferry from shore to shore ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhaktavasya Posted October 19, 2001 Report Share Posted October 19, 2001 Originally posted by valaya: Dear Satyaraja prabhu, what more can I say here? Too much has been said already... I'm just nothing going nowhere, but something did happen to me and I can't deny it nor escape from it's consequences. I thought my heart was made of stone, if indeed I even had one, but it was melted in a moment in front of the diety of Sri Radha (Radha-Gopinath in Toronto). Of course, at that point it was really a matter of life or death... I was so acutely aware of my offensive nature and absolute need for Her mercy. Everything works together ultimately for the best, though mostly I find that difficult to accept. As you kindly keep reminding us, it's all dependent on the free will of Hari and His Divine Grace is essential. Please don't think that any of your experiences, including those with various gurus, will not eventually prove to be incomprehendably valuable. It all comes together in the end and then a new beginning starts. That's my limited realization so far, anyway. I do not mean to appear condescending or patronizing or whatever. Sometimes I just feel a kind of melancholy for all of us caught up in this. Like the song says, "Love Hurts! valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-09-2001).] Valaya, there is one thing about your repeated experience with the Diety of Radharani that changed your life, softened your heart forever, that bothers me and probably others, and that is you seem to assume that no-one else has had similar soul-devastating (and I mean that in a good/transcendentally blissful way) experiences. Most people keep them private. Shivering, standing of the hair on end, the Deity revealing Him/Herself out of causeless mercy. I won't say anymore about this, because you get quite upset (in my opinion) if anyone questions your 'special status' as the 'favorite' devotee of Radha. But I must remind you that rather than being exceptionally evolved as the intimate confidant of Sri Radha, there is such a thing as the symptom of a kanista devotee (not bad, just unaware) thinking that he/she is the best devotee, that no-one else is serving God (or knows God) better than he/she. Just imagine all the people who never go on line, whose hearts are continuously melted in love for the Divine Couple, some of them living and some already taken by Krishna. While I'm at it, it's irritating to hear you go on at times about how angry you are with Krishna for making Radha sad, leaving Her. These pastimes are considered fully ttranscendental, the separation necessary for the bliss of union. "Sometimes these 2 lovers are joined and sometimes separated again. They have come together again in the body of Mahaprabhu." This is why Chaitanya is the most merciful, most magnanimous incarnation to date. Millions and millions of glories to the all auspicous Union of the 2 Lovers! [This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 10-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 24, 2001 Report Share Posted October 24, 2001 Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 11: As we board She is behind us As we disembark She is before us Need we catch the ferry ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 25, 2001 Report Share Posted October 25, 2001 Originally posted by talasiga: The ferry of devotion finds Radha waiting at every shore IMPLICATION 12: Can we hear the Ferryman play His Flute ? Is this is how He draws the Greatest Destination to every shore ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-25-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 Talasigaji: Can we hear the Ferryman play His Flute ? Is this is how He draws the Greatest Destination to every shore ? Satyaraj: Why not the “Symphony of Spheres” played by Him and His encourage? Why a single flute solo by Hari? It is said that Ravana was the inventor of the violin. Do you think that Hari would discriminate violin players? Or even a gopis’ choir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 26, 2001 Report Share Posted October 26, 2001 Satyaraj: Why not the “Symphony of Spheres” played by Him and His en[t]ourage? Talasiga: Now you have caused a domestic squabble in my life. I asked my wife whether it was Holzt who composed this "Symphony of Spheres" and she has called me a big fool...... Satyaraj: Why a single flute solo by Hari? Talasiga: The Lonely Lord always invites accompaniment but prospective musicians are always stunned into silence by His riffs ..... Satyaraj: It is said that Ravana was the inventor of the violin. Talasiga: Whoever said that doesn't know a peacock from an eagle ! Ravana invented the stringed bowed instrument called Sarangi. (Today, the esteemed Pundit Ram Narayan is the greatest maestro of that instrument.) Satyaraj: Do you think that Hari would discriminate violin players? Talasiga: Can you imagine Ramayana without Ravana ? Satyaraj: Or even a gopis’ choir? Talasiga: A Symphony of Priyas ? [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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