kailasa Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 But who should present that svakiya rasa? Is submitted(shown) both svakiya and prakiya rasa. As always who that takes a part and does(makes) from this a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 All in parakiya! All their error that they think, that can select. " you that, parakiya same maximum! " Meditate on parakiya! Gopi they married, it is the truth, but then Divorce . parakiya means to depend from Krisna and to begin eventually to feed babaji prasada. They already with parakiya have falled on svakiya, and what will be tomorrow?: ( In general mathurya means that Krisna selects. What for Gopi?!!, they already have tired Lord. So it is possible and in svakiya to not get, to whom such are necessary Impudent the wife? And in the friends too do not fall, it is too much greatness. In the servant???? I doubt. Well where that in region santa rasa they also are. And that only have come in meditation and, dhyana it yet bhakti yoga. The clever people speak them - in Kali all Sri Caitanya worship. And how? Take the books and go on a street. Not in an another's temple, and on a street. There both svakiya and parakiya. Lord in streets of your city already was tired of waiting you. He there! Not correctly books sold? Agree. Now it is necessary correctly, on new. Krisna us here has sent, to serve. And back yet do not receive. Jaya, Vijaya all back refer!!! Have not earned still. I so feel it is necessary in India to go, babaji and that will reach faster here and on the books will go. And any west!!! All we shall go to Russia, for us here will be large Kubha-mela. Whom they worship? svakiya, is normal. Even and is too high, here that and in brahman is similar anybody that is not present, all in dasya rasa it is necessary, especially with Lord Sri Caitanya, and is. All of them think, Death and all - spiritual world, main word to make. Well who absolutely already above a hell hangs, it is understandable, but who is more strong, can serve we shall begin? Can be we shall begin to preach to everyone, whom we meet? Or the title at first is necessary. The title that it(he) foils actually. Without a title it is better. One distributor of the books is better than three sanyasi.Three dandi I wait for your letters, responses and wishes, your eternal servant kailasa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ananga Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Point taken, Puru. My drawing such a parallel was not intended to imply that we should confuse mundane relationships (let alone erotic ones) between humans with eternal sambandhas. It was only a musing due to the various controversies that abound in various religions over basic morality. There is this tendency to keep certain things 'in the closet' so to speak. That is not always the most therapeutic attitiude, however. Eastern traditions are much more ready to acknowledge the erotic components of our psyches, whereas Western traditions generally are in a state of denial. [This message has been edited by Ananga (edited 07-09-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ananga (edited 07-09-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasanudas Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 Excuse my ignorance as my Guru Maharaj cautioned me about prematurely entering certain pastimes, written by the Goswamis, where they reveal a plethora of in depth questions within questions, like a pandoras box of butterflies. The mind upon hearing these deep realizations can expand in so many directions like a tiny spark beamed thru a jewel creating inumerable fractals of ever increasing wonder, curiosity and query, depending on ones perspective and capacity to not only follow intelectually, but to enter this living transcendental intercourse. Obviously we must tread very gingerly when trying to enter the subtlties of such fine theistic thought. It’s like a very delicate path of violets leading into that pristine forest of divinity, and should always be treated accordingly. In saying this I’m not condemning or condoning entrance into these sacred groves in public.SBSST has no doubt spoken in length specifically to clarify our understanding and to couch these glorious conclusions in such a way as to protect and enlighten simultaneously, so by all means if one is qualified to elaborate on the Acharyas most precious insights or just present them for perusal for the benefit of all, then proceed, with caution. As so often times it happens on these forems whereby there are inappropriate challenges and it ultimately derails any progressive train of thought leading to an enlightening and beneficial conclusion for those sincere seekers of truth endeavouring to follow such conversation or imbibe some glint of insight from the thesis. Anyway to cut to a few of my questions if anyone can help. Although I’ve always intuitively felt this and it obviously makes perfect sense if Krsna is the centre of all enjoyment but Where does it state in shastra, “there is no sexual union with the gopis and their husbands?” And if this is so how do the janma lilas of all of Krsnas relations unfold from where to where. Similar to Gauracandras question of ‘where does it end?’ Is where and how do they begin.That is where was Srimate Thakurani before she appeared and grew in Varsana. My mother asked me this the other day when hearing from Jehovas Wittnesses of their conception of heaven, where their families just reunite in the body of their choice similar to that which they knew here on Earth. Of course my mom said if that’s the deal she would’nt want the 82 year old grandmother body she has now, rather she’d like the most beautiful form she could get, we won’t go into their conception of the soul or lack of it. But I find they are getting closer to some fundamental truths, yet still light years away from the Krsna conception. So are the friends lovers and servants spontaneously,and mysticly self manifest thru the divine will of the Lord? And again how do the gopis have children? I accept what is generally unacceptable and very rare in this world, that is immaculate conception, but could well be common place in that transcendental domain of infinite possibilities. Otherwise in another examole I can accomodate the way Sri Sanatan explains in Brht Bhagavatamrtm where Gopa Kumara reunites with Krsna and His cowherd friends coming from Dwaraka like an old friend returning home. This gives rise to another question, does shastra expain transformation from one service propensity to another? Which would nessesitate changing spiritual forms to suit ones service propensities. I have a little sraddha that all is going on by divine arrangement but there are some areas that are a little hazy without access to the higher authorities answers to these queries, thereby I’m asking those who may have come across clues in their researches. At the same time I understand there are those among us who need more rational and tangible proof or evidence of such events if they are to accept these inconceivable conceptions. But this seems like many such queries, out of the question without first hand experience.Faith in our masters experience and divine revelation can no doubt give us some strong conviction, but are they not inviting us to experience divinity also in connection to theire own adoration and sevice to that vision splendid? Gaurachandra Prabhu Dandavats, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this from Srila Sridhara Maharaj or if you may accept his authority, but it does give some illumination to your question. I hope it may help. Eternal Sunrise The sankirttan movement of Caitanya Mahaprabhu performed here over 500 years ago is still flowing and it may be possible to find somewhere in a corner of the solar system. That eternal sound is still flowing there with His figure and all His paraphernalia, the cause of all causes. This flow of vision that came here 500 years ago is also emanating, moving away. So with adjustment, greater speed, we can follow, we can find that Gaura-Nitya lila. Generally we cannot understand how the lila is nitya. From this standpoint we can see the lila to be eternal. Just as the earth is moving everywhere there is morning. Here the sun is rising, then a mile off perhaps one minute after, the sun is still rising in another place, in this way the sun is always rising. If it were possible to catch a supersonic jet we could live in the constant rising of the sun, transforming our relative concept of the sun and time. So all the morning, noon afternoon and evening, the sun is still rising here or somewhere else, so lila is also like that. It is coming here and passing away. That bhajan lila, finished here but in yet another place is beginning, and was previously extended from another quarter, simultaneously it is never ending in the Absolute sense. So everywhere, somewhere or other, every lila is eternally unfolding. Some are meditating on Krsna being born in Mathura, another devotee is worshipping Krsna with His mates keeping the cows in the jungle while others also have their relationships with Him in so many moods of devotion. If such thinking is possible in the heart of the devotee, it is all Krsna’s potency to reciprocate with all of his devotees eternally. So He is there in every moment at the centre of every atom, ever existent. His lila is of such infinite nature, He can express Himself everywhere in every mood in every possible aspect. It cannot be finalised, it cannot come under limitation. That is the characteristic of the infinite. Not only Krsna lila is nectar, but every part of Krsna lila is nectar. The fundamental conception of the infinite is such, it is not static it is dynamic. It is flowing and time and space cannot limit it. We are under time and space, but time and space all come from Him. He is above time and space and forms everything in this way. So Krsna lila is eternally flowing not only wholesale, but every part of His lila also. That is difficult to understand,. His pastimes are eternal, we may understand it in that way. But every part of lila that is also eternal and co-existing. Janma lila here, another lila there, in this way everywhere at every time, every one can have conception of any part. So we are given to understand the unlimited in our limited position by the grace of those agents of divinity, it is very peculiar. Adhoksaja means transcendental and aprakrta is very similar to the mundane but not mundane. Very similar to the material conception of the world, but still that is eternal. Adhoksaja means a particular type of consciousness which pushes down all the knowledge of our previous experience, quite a new thing, transcendental, it’s super-subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 10, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 <h3>2. The return of Krishna to Vraja</h3> 2.1. Krishna is never in reality separated from his devotees After having established the basics of Krishnaite theology in KrishnaS, Jiva turns next to the questions that affect the very structure of BhP's Krishna narrative. He starts with a question: "If Krishna eternally resides in Dvaraka, etc., then why is he seen to go from one place to another in the course of his manifest activities before finally ascending to Vaikuntha?"(13) The immediate answer is that this is what is visible (prakata) to those of this world; in the aprakata lila, he does remain permanently in each place in an appropriate form.(14) This answer, however, leaves unresolved the separation (viraha) of Krishna's devotees from him in the prakata lila; such separation having been made to stand out with all the poetic force that BhP's author could muster.(15) The only attempts at resolution of this separation in BhP take the form of a letter of instructions from Krishna, transmitted by Uddhava, which was intended to placate the gopis in their desperate sadness. This letter is couched in the language of aisvarya if not monism, and Jiva has exercised considerable license in extracting desired meanings from its verses in KrishnaS (para. 155ff) and GC (ii.12). He justifies the exercise by citing BhP xi.20.13: "Generally, instructions in knowledge and renunciation are not beneficial to a yogi who is devoted to me, whose soul is imbued with me." If such instructions are not beneficial to the ordinary devotee, then how much more true it must be of the gopis, who are the most exalted of all devotees. The words of Uddhava's message must be understood by Krishna's intimates as a code, in the way that Yudhisthira had to interpret Vidura's message when he and the Pandavas were warned of the dangers about to befall them while living in the house of lacquer.(16) From a verse that seems to grant general license for sophistry, Jiva cites Krishna's words in BhP, "The seers speak obscurely, for obscurity of expression is dear to me."(17) Krishna's letter to the gopis starts with the words, "You are never entirely separated from me due to [my presence as the] all-pervading soul."(18) Beyond the prima facie interpretation which explains the gopis' separation away through Krishna's or Brahman's divine omnipresence, this verse is taken by Jiva in conjunction with later statements to mean that just as Krishna by virtue of his unlimited powers is able to be present in unlimited manifestations simultaneously,(19) so too are the gopis and indeed all of Krishna's eternal associates through the Yogamaya potency. Thus, though apparently separated from each other in the prakata or visible manifestation in this world, in the eternal abode they go on in uninterrupted union. Rupa Goswami, whose descriptions of separation form a large part of his work, also made a point of including a caveat in at least his theoretical writings to the effect that the viraha he himself described was done so according to the prakata manifestation, but that in reality Krishna was always united with his eternal associates.(20) Krishna Das Kaviraja writes that Rupa was told by Chaitanya himself "never to take Krishna out of Vrindavan."(21) <hr><font color=#9F5f9F> 12. KrsnaS 152, p.78; yadi nityam eva tathavidhaH zrI-kRSNAkhyaH svayaM bhagavAn tatra tatra etaiH parikaraiH sArdham viharati, tarhi...kathaM vA janmAdilIlayA krameNa mathurAM gokulaM punar mathurAM dvArakAM ca tyaktvA vaikuNTham arUDhavAn iti. 13. ibid. tatha mathurAdi-parityAgAd yuktir avatAre prApancika-jana-prakaTa-lIlApekSayaiva. tad-aprakaTA tu lIlA nityam eva vidyate. 14. Since Krishna must by nature always be situated in his dhaman, what is happening when he is at Kurukshetra or some other place? The answer is that at those times, these places are temporarily imbued with the characteristics of the dhaman: sa bhagavaH kasmin pratiSThita iti sve mahimnIti (ChaU 7.24.1)... tatas tatraivAvyavadhAnena tasya lIlA. anyeSAM prakRTatvAt na sAkSAt tat-sparzo 'pi sambhavati dhAraNAsaktis tu natarAm. yatra kvacid vA prakaTa-lIlAyAM tad-gamanAdikaM zrUyate, tad api teSAm AdhAra-zakti-rUpANAM sthAnAnAm AvezAd eva mantavyam. etc. (KrsnaS 174, p.90). 15. For an elaborate discussion of the importance of the South Indian traditions that made separation such an integral part of the conception of devotion and the dramatic and theological essence of the Bhagavata-purana, see Friedhelm Hardy's Viraha-bhakti (London, etc.: Oxford University Press, 1983). 16. KrsnaS 164, p.85. na hy atra tAsAm AdhyAtma-vidyA zreyaskarI bhavati... sAdhAraNa-bhaktanam apy anupAdeyatvenoktavtvAt. na ca tac-chravaNena viraha-jvAlA zAmyati... tasmAd vidurasyeva kUToktir iyam ity ukta evArtho bhavaty antarangaH, sa ca yudhiSThirasyeva tAsAm eva gamya iti. 17. BhP xi.21.35; parokSavAdA RSayaH parokSaM ca mama priyam/ Cited at BRSc iii.4.76, etc. 18. BhP x.47.29, discussed in KrsnaS 155 (p.80), GC ii.12.12ff; bhavatInAM viyogo me na hi sarvAtmanA kvacit. 19. KrsnaS 116, p.62; tataz ca lila-dvaye kRSNavat teSAm eva prakAza-bhedaH. yada ca prakAza-bhedo bhavati, tada tat-tal-lIlA-rasa-poSAya teSu tat-tal-lIlA-zaktir evAbhimAna-bhedam parasparam ananusandhAnaM ca prAyah sampAdayatIti gamyate. 20. This is stated in Pv 312ff, UN 15.185-7, LBhag i.4.471, BRS iii.3.129, NatC. E.g. harer lila-vizeSasya prakaTasyAnusArataH/ varNitA virahAvasthA goSTha-vAma-bhruvAm asau// vRndAraNye viharatA sadA rAsAdi-vibhramaih/ hariNA vraja-devInAM viraho 'sti na karhicit// UN 15.185-6. 21. CC iii.1.65; kRSNake bAhira nAhi kariha vraja haite/ vraja chARi kRSNa kabhu nA jAya kAMhAte// <small><font color=f7f7f7> [This message has been edited by Jagat (edited 07-10-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 10, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 <h3>2.2 Dissatisfaction with the adhyatmika solution</h3> Though Krishna explained to the gopis that he was in fact never separated from them, they could not be entirely satisfied with any instruction that did not lead to union in that specific manifestation. After all, the gopis, whether or not they were united with Krishna in some other manifestation, only had consciousness of the one in which they happened to be present. As a consequence of the madhurya imperative, it is also said of Krishna that none of his unlimited manifestations in a particular lila is aware of any other.(22) For the gopis, mere intellectual knowledge of a higher state could not bring about satisfaction. The desire for union in the prakata manifestation requires a solution in the same manifest situation. Thus, in the KrishnaS, Jiva explains that a second attempt at satisfying the gopis is found in a subsequent verse of the same letter brought by Uddhava from Krishna. That verse reads: “I (the atman) am experienced (by you) in the activities of the mind, in deep sleep, dreams and in wakefulness.”(23) This verse is explained as an indication of the sphurti phenomenon. The word sphurti would most properly be understood to mean “hallucination.” Union with the beloved in dreams and hallucinations is included by Rupa in UN as gauna-sambhoga(24) and has been described to great effect by him in his Hamsaduta.(25) Jiva's Krishna makes a point of openly mentioning sphurti several times in his letters to the gopis from Dvaraka. For example, in one verse he says: <blockquote>It is true, my friends, that in abandoning you, whose lives are dedicated to me, I have not shown any principles whatsoever. But listen to this submission of mine: the unequalled love you have for me, transcends all limits; it shames me and makes me take a hidden form of like sentiment. I am thus never far away from you. Here I am in the city. How can I openly do anything for your benefit? Even so, I function here as a mere shadow of myself, whereas I reveal my true form there in Vraja. It happens in this way: wherever someone is absorbed in thought of another, that person personally appears there in sphurti form, according to that absorption, and not in any other way.(26)</blockquote> <hr><font color=#9F5f9F> NOTES 21. BhP x.69.2 is cited to show how Krishna lived simultaneously in the houses of each of his 16,000+ wives. Uddhava is also present in more than one of these homes engaging in different activities with Krishna. tatra nana-kriyAdy-adhiSThAnatvAd eva lila-rasa-poSAya teSu prakAzeSv abhimAna-bhedaM parasparam ananusandhAnaM ca prAyaH svecchayorIkarotIty api gamyate. KrsnaS 155, p.81. 22. BhP x.47.31; AtmA jnAnamayah zuddho vyatirikto guNAnvayah/ suSupti-svapna-jAgradbhir manovrttibhir iyate// Jiva takes AtmA to mean "I": Atma-zabdo 'sminn asmac-chabdArtha-paraH, KrsnaS 158, p.83. 23. UN 15.210-20. This type of union is not less real in the theological sense where a vision of Krishna, even in dreams, is not different from the real Krishna any more than his name or deity form is ontologically different from him. 25. Hamsaduta, 105-13. 26. GC ii.6v9-10; satyam saMtyajya yuSmAn niyata-mad-anuga-prANana-niSpramANa-dharmyaM me nAsti kincit tad api savayasaH zrUyatAM man-nivedyam/ yuSmAkaM yatisetur mayi ratir atulA sA tu mAM hrepayantI tat-tulyAsakti-riktaM hnuta-tanum akaron nAsmi dUraH kadApi// puryAm asyAM yad asmi prakaTam api hitaM hanta kuryAM kathaM tat kintu cchAyA-sadRkSaH sphuTam iha vihare tatra tu svena nityam/ Avezo yatra yasya sphurati sa niyataM tatra bhAti svayaM yat sphUrtim svaM so 'yam asmIty anubhajati yathA tena nAnyena tadvat// <small><font color=#dedfdf> [This message has been edited by Jagat (edited 07-10-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 10, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 <h3>2.3 Dissatisfaction with the sphurti solution</h3> Though the truth of Krishna's claims to personally be with the gopis in sphurti form is nowhere denied, not even by the gopis who are on one level aware of Krishna's divinity, they cannot be said to be entirely satisfied with this attempt to assuage them. Upon hearing Uddhava recite Krishna’s message (in GC), they say, <blockquote>It seems that [Krishna] is instructing us of his own brahman-ness, for he is calling himself "the soul of all".(27) There is no point in listening to these unpleasant things.... He appears to be explaining to us that which he has told us before about hallucinations: that our separation does not exist in every manifestation, but only in this one, in which he is absent in Mathura. Thus, even though situated there, he is united with us in our hallucinations of him. What is the use of listening to this irritating sound, which is like a grinding stone, going round and round and grinding that which has already been ground?(28)</blockquote> Krishna due to his omnipotence can be personally present by the sphurti, but on a further level of intensity of the suffering devotee, he manifests himself in another degree of "solidity" which is called avirbhava. Rupa says that the Vrajavasins feel separation in all its intensity for only a short time before they are relieved by sphurtis.(29) These are direct meetings which, because fleeting, are nevertheless experienced as hallucination.(30) That which is true for the gopis is similarly applicable to all the residents of Vraja. Krishna’s parents experience the same symptoms of separation and manifestations of their beloved child in sphurti, etc., in the way described for the gopis. Thus, in GC, Krishna tells his mother in a letter that he had truly come and eaten the food that she prepared for him even in his absence.(31) Yashoda answers, as might be expected, that though she remembered the incident well, it did not give her satisfaction, for the onset of astonished bewilderment interfered with her making the most of the situation before Krishna was again gone.(32) In short, then, sphurti and avirbhava are only temporary measures providing fleeting relief from separation, which requires Krishna's return for a full cure. Krishna is aware of the dissatisfaction with these solutions from majesty. When inviting the Vrajavasins to Kurukshetra, he says that only those who do not believe that he comes secretly to visit them in Vraja need come, that the rest should stay behind. (33) To the gopis he says that he too is subject to a similar perception of these real/illusory meetings: <blockquote>Though I come to meet with you constantly in such a way that you are only aware individually, you believe [my presence] to be hallucination and false; this is true not only for you, but alas for me as well; therefore let us meet, even if only once, at Kurukshetra, on the pretext of spying on our enemies, and may that meeting resuscitate us.(34)</blockquote> Nowhere is this dissatisfaction with anything but physical contact in the here and now better expressed by Jiva than in the context of the gopis' meeting with Krishna at Kurukshetra, where (in the Bhagavata) Krishna again repeats the instructions couched in the language of his all-pervasiveness, the essence of which is that they should content themselves with his memory. The gopis' response to this is a verse that might be interpreted as humble acquiescence to these lessons;(35) Jiva takes it rather as a statement saturated with sarcasm about Krishna's lofty idealism: <blockquote>[The gopis] said: Oh lotus-navelled Krishna, your lotus-feet are the object of meditation in the hearts of the masters of yoga, whose understanding is unfathomable. They are like a helping hand that descends to raise those fallen into the well of samsara. May they always appear in our minds, for we are so deeply attached to our homes.(36)</blockquote> According to Jiva's paraphrasing, the underlying implication or suggestion of the gopis speech is as follows: <blockquote>“It is all very well for you to tell us to remember your feet when we want to see you and be with you. The yogins may well be able to meditate on them because they are so unfathomably deep that they are emotionally unaffected. We on the other hand fall into a faint the minute that we begin to remember you. If we could just touch your feet that are soft like the lotus, the pains of separation would be relieved, but this will not happen if we merely remember them. You may think that we could be relieved from our separation in the way the yogins are raised up from the well of material life; but a well is one thing -- we have fallen into an ocean of separation, which is another. If you say to us, well come to Dvaraka, our answer is that we are attached to our homes in Vrindavan. That is where you also belong, with us in Vraja. Only your return there will save us."(37)</blockquote> <hr><font color=#9F5f9F> NOTES 27. The reference here is to BhP x.47.29, sarvAtmanA. 28. GC ii.12.13; Nanv idam svasya brahma-jnAnam ivoddiSTam, sarvAtmanA me mayeti samAnAdhikaraNyAt. tad alam anabhiSTa-zravaNena... Ibid, para. 15; nanv anena punar-uktena pUrva-pUrvam upadiSTaM sphUrti-lakSaNam ivAdiSTam. sarveNa prakAzena viyogo nAsti, kintu mathurAsthena prakaTena viyogaH. bhavatISu sphuratA tatrasthena saMyoga iti. tad alaM piSTa-peSaNa-sarga-kara-cakra-vargasya gharghara-zabda-zravaNena. 29. LBhag i.4.467; vraje prakaTa-lIlAyAM trIn mAsAn viraho 'munA/ tatrApy ajani visphUrtiH prAdurbhAvopamA hareH// Rupa and Jiva appear to have a different idea of when Krishna physically returns to Vrindavan, though both agree that he does so. Rupa says he comes after six months, while Jiva and Sanatana calculate the great event as coming some 34 years after Krishna's departure. 30. KrsnaS 158, p.83; ataeva sa ca sphUrti-rUpo 'yam anubhAvaH kadAcit sAkSAtkAra-dvArApi kalpyate iti cIra-kAla-virahe 'pi tAsAM sandhUkSaNa-kAraNaM jneyam. 31. GC ii.6v3; Adye 'hni kSIra-bhaktam ghanam adhivalita roTikA tasya pazcAt tat-pazcAd dugdha-pUpaM tad anu bahuvidhAnnAdyam anyeSu canyat/ mAtar mahyaM nikAyye mahati rasayate paryavezi tvayA yan na svapnas tan na vA tat-sphuranamayam iti smaryate kintu satyam// Compare this to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's message to his mother, CC iii.12.89-93. 32. GC ii.7v2; satyam tad divasam anu te bhojanam tat tad AsId itthaM citte sphurati mama ha tatra cAsIn na tRptiH/ yasmAn mohAd ahaha mayakA putra tat-pUraNAya prApto nAsId avasara iti svAntam antar dunoti// 33. GC ii.23v3: yadyapy aham gokula-lokam Azu pratisvam abhyasya raho bhajAmi/ tathApi ye na pratiyAnti te 'mI milantu mAM tatra pare vasantu// 34. GC ii.23v6: yadyapy atmaika-vedyA mama lasati muhuH sangatir yuSmakAbhiH sphUrti-bhrAntyA pratItis tad api kila na vas tatra hA dhig mamApi/ yad dviSTa-dveSTR-tarka-grahana-miSatayAnyonyasangaH sambhAvyas tat priyAlyaH kuru-bhuvi sakRd apy astu sA prANanayA// 35. Hardy, op. cit. 510, "...and in their reply, praising him, they show that they have understood the lesson." 36. BhP x.82.48, Ahuz ca te nalina-nAbha padAravindaM yogezvarair hRdi vicintyam agAdha-bodhaiH/ saMsAra-kUpa-patitottaraNAvalambaM geham-juSAm api manasy udiyAt sadA naH// 37. KrsnaS 170, p.86f. yogezvarair hRdi vicintyaM na tv asmAbhis tat-smaraNArambha eva murcchAgaminIbhiH... agAdha-bodhaiH sAkSAd-darzane 'py akSubhita-buddhibhir na tv asmAbhir iva tad-darzanecchayA kSubhita-buddhibhiH. caraNasyAravinda-rUpakam ca tat-sparzenaiva daha-zAntir bhavati, na tu tathA tat-smaraNeneti jnApanayA. nanu, tathA nididhyAsanam eva yogezvarANAM saMsAra-duHkham iva bhavatInAM viraha-duHkhaM dUrIkRtya tad-udayaM kariSyatIti AzankyAha, saMsAra-kUpa-patitAnAm evottaraNAvalambaM na tv asmAkaM viraha-sindhu-nimagnAnAm... nanv evAdhunAgatya muhur mAM sAkSAd evAnubhavatA, tatrAhuH... gehAM juSAm iti tava sangatiz ca tvat-pUrva-sangama-vilAsa-dhAmni tat-tad-asmat-kAma-dughe svAbhAvikAsmat-prIti-nilaye nija-gehe gokula eva bhavatu, na tu dvArakAdAv iti... vRndAvana eva yady Agacchasi, tadaiva nistAra iti bhAvaH. Jiva's reworking of this verse in GC (ii.23v39) also partially catches the spirit of this interpretation, adapting a famous cliché‚ which contrasts yogin with viyogin: vRNImahi padAmbujaM tava saroja-nAbhA prabho manasy api kathancana sphuratu naH samantAd iti/ idaM hi bata yoginAM smRtatayA tamaz cyavanaM viyogi-sudRzAM tayA tamasi majjanaM pratyuta//. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 11, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 <h3>2.4 Vipralambha and sambhoga</h3> Jiva covers many of the same points in more detail while commenting on the 15th and last chapter of Ujjvala-nilamani, which deals with the different manifestations of separation and union. Generally four types of separation are listed in the works of the poeticians beginning with Rudra Bhatta.(38) The terms for the four corresponding types of union that follow them appear to have been coined by Bhoja.(39) The correlation between the two is kept strict and we thus have the following scheme: <center><table border=5><tr><td></td><td> vipralambha </td><td> sambhoga </td></tr><tr><td>[1]</td><td>pUrva-rAga (first love)</td><td>saMkSipta-sambhoga</td></tr><tr><td>[2]</td><td>mAna (lover's quarrels)</td><td>saMkIrNa-sambhoga</td></tr><tr><td>[3]</td><td>pravAsa (exile)</td><td>sampUrNa-sambhoga</td></tr><tr><td>[4]</td><td>karuNa (death)</td><td>samrddhimat-sambhoga</td></tr></table></center> Karuna or death is not considered an irresoluble state of separation in the Sanskrit dramatic context because the lovers can meet if one of them is brought back to life. Bhoja gives the example of Rati being reunited with Kama after he has been reborn as Pradyumna and Singabhupala adds that of Shiva being united with Sati after she comes back as Parvati.(40) Rupa makes several changes in this taxonomy to fit the particular conditions imposed by the Krishna legend. As in the works of his predecessors, Rupa divides both separation (vipralambha) and union (sambhoga) into four categories. The correlation is not as neat as in the table given above, however. Rupa eliminates karuna, presumably since Krishna's separation from Radha by death would be impossible. A new category, prema-vaicittya, refers to the phenomenon of separation in union, a peculiar mental state described by Rupa alone amongst poeticians.(41) This type of separation is not followed by a union unique to it. Rupa divides pravasa into two types, one the daily absences of Krishna from the gopis when he goes into the forest with the cows, which is followed by sampanna- ("consummated") sambhoga, and the other dirgha-pravasa, the long separation that comes when Krishna unwillingly leaves to perform his worldly duties of demon-killing. These are also characterized as buddhi-purva and abuddhi-purva, intended and unintended separation. Rupa's schema thus appears as follows: <center><table border=5><tr><td></td><td> vipralambha </td><td> sambhoga </td></tr><tr><td>[1]</td><td>pUrva-rAga (first love)</td><td>saMkSipta-sambhoga</td></tr><tr><td>[2]</td><td>mAna (lover's quarrels)</td><td>saMkIrNa-sambhoga</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>(prema-vaicittya)</td><td></td></tr><tr><td> [3]</td><td>pravAsa (buddhi-purva)</td><td>sampanna-sambhoga</td></tr><tr> <td>[4]</td><td> pravAsa (abuddhi-purva)</td><td>samrddhimat-sambhoga</td></tr></table></center> It is after he has described vipralambha and before he commences to describe sambhoga that Rupa gives, as he has on so many other occasions, the reminder that there is in fact, never any real separation of Krishna and the gopis other than the appearance of such in the prakata-lila. In his introduction to the discussion on sambhoga, Jiva takes this context into account as he stresses the necessity of describing the union of Krishna with the gopis in the prakata-lila, even in knowledge of such an undisturbed state of union. First of all, Jiva argues that as a rule, wherever one kind of separation, purva-raga, etc. is described, it is always followed by the corresponding form of union. If no such union were to follow, then the æsthetic experience would be incomplete. The proposed transcendental solution is also rejected on this basis, for even if it were accepted that the gopis were enjoying union with Krishna in one manifestation, the experience of separation they felt in the world of the incarnation was sufficiently real that even Krishna himself acknowledged their suffering (x.46.6). No description of any suffering at all would be possible if the happiness of union were a reality, consciously experienced by the gopis while apparently suffering separation. Thus, the existence of a description of separation demands a parallel description of union. As even the mundane poeticians say, "Not without separation can union be fully experienced,"(42) the corollary of which is that without union, separation alone does not bear æsthetic fruit. In view of the desire of the gopis and Krishna to be united with one another in the prakata-lila, Jiva advises the devotee against a misguided preference for the lila of separation, for this would not be a sign of love, but rather a sign of selfishness, since one would be neglecting the wishes of Krishna's beloved gopis themselves. In saying this Jiva appears to have been anticipating a line of argument which states that separation is an exalted state, pleasurable in itself. Though Chaitanya by his example may well be the ultimate source of such a doctrine, it is Rupa who appears to first take such a position in the written word. In BRS, he states that though the various vyabhicari-bhavas and anubhavas may appear to be symptomatic of happiness and distress like the equivalent emotional manifestations resulting from the transformations of the material qualities, since they are experienced in relation to Krishna (kRSNAnvayAt), they are all transcendentally joyful experiences and to be called "hot" or "cool" rather than "distressful" or "pleasurable".(43) Sanatan too, in his BrBhag stresses the inherently blissful quality of separation, stating that it is even greater than that of union. There, Krishna actually thanks Narada for inflaming the pain he feels at being distanced from the gopis. Though Sanatan hints at the even greater joy of ultimate reunion which is eventually to take place,(44) he never actually describes such a reunion in BrBhag, leaving such a conclusion to the imagination of the reader (as does BhP itself). Jiva, in his commentary on the above-mentioned BRS verses, however, takes the position that it is precisely the ending of the apparent distresses in union which makes them "pleasurable"; he does not seem to find them pleasurable in their own right as does the later commentator Vishwanath.(45) Jiva reminds us that Rupa Goswami wrote UN on the basis of the manifest lila, as he did his plays and other books. He was similarly seen to worship Krishna according to that manifestation. Furthermore, Suka's own absorption in the prakatalila is self-evident. The revelation of the exalted position of the prakata-liia is also the purpose of Brahma's words: <center>prapañcaM niSrapañco 'si viDambayasi bhU-tale/ prapanna-janatAnanda- sandohaM prathituM prabho//(x.14.37)</center> <blockquote>Though you are untouched by the world, you imitate the activities of the world in order to give great amounts of pleasure to the people who are surrendered to you."</blockquote> Even acknowledging the existence of the nitya-lila, Krishna's activities of being born, etc., alone bring great amounts of pleasure to the devotees. If Rupa did not prefer the prakata-lila but rather the aprakata, says Jiva, then what would have been gained by extensively describing Radha and Krishna's separation, which is of a painful nature? The activities of the incarnation would be seen as a source of distress rather than joy! To avoid any such misunderstanding, Rupa ends his study of the madhura-rasa with a description of the various different kinds of union, culminating with the samRddhimat or "enriched" union, just as though he did not know the felicitous situation in the eternal lila.(47) <hr><font color=#9F5f9F> NOTES 38. Srngara-tilaka (SrT) 2.1; vipralambhAbhidhAno 'yam zRngAraH syAc catur-vidhaH/ pUrvAnurAgo mAnAkhyaH pravAsaH karuNAtmakaH// 39. Sarasvati-kanthabharana (Ska) 5.84. See also 5.59-63. 40. e.g. Sarasvatikanthabharana lokAntara-gate yUni vallabhe vallabho yadA/ bhRzaM duHkhAyate dInaH karuNaH sa tadocyate// (5.50) pratyAgate 'pi yatraiSa rati-puSTiH priye jane/ sa kim AvarNyate yUnAM tatraiva mRta-jIvite// (5.88) punar ujjIvitam bhoga-samRddhiH kiyatI bhavet/ zivAbhyAm eva vijñeya ity ayam hi samRddhimAn// (Ras 2.225) Singabhupala also gives the example of Kama and Rati who were reunited when he was reborn as Pradyumna. 41. priyasya sannikarSe 'pi premotkarSa-svabhAvataH/ yA vizleSa-dhiyArtis tat prema-vaicittyam ucyate// UN 15.147-9. 42. UN 15.3. Rupa attributes this verse only to the ancients (prAñcaH). The verse appears to be Bhojadeva's (Ska 5.53): na vinA vipralambhena sambhogaH puSTim aznute/ kaSAyite hi vastrAdau bhUyo rAgo 'bhivardhate// 43. Cf. BRS ii.5.74,77-8: kRSNAnvayAd guNAtIta-prauDhAnanda-mayA api/ bhAnty amI triguNotpanna-sukha-duHkhamayA iva//... prAyaH sukhamayAH zItA uSNA duHkhamayA iha/ citreyaM paramAnanda-sAndrApy uSNA ratir matA// zItair bhAvair baliSThais tu puSTA zitAyate hy asau/ uSNais tu ratir atyuSNA tApayantIva bhAsate// 44. BrBhag i.7.126-7: tathApi sambhoga-sukhAd api stutaH sa ko 'py anirvacyatamo manoramaH/ pramoda-rAziH pariNAmato dhruvaM tatra sphuret tad-rasikaika-vedyaH// tac-choka-duHkhoparamasya pazcAc cittaM yataH pUrNatayA prasannam/ samprApta-sambhoga-mahA-sukhena sampannavat tiSThati sarvadaiva// In BrBhag, Sanatana does not describe a return to Vraja in the prakata-lila, rather he speaks of regular departures for two month periods from the nitya-lila, thus introducing dUra-pravAsa even there. 45. BRSc ii.5.74: kRSNa-sphuranamayatvAd dharSAdayas tAvad aprAkRta-sukha-mayA eva, kintu tad-anvayAd viSadAdayaz ca tAdRza-sukhamayA eva vaktavyaH. duHkhamayatvena teSAM sphuranaM tu tad-aprApty-Adi-bhAvanA-rUpanopAdhinopAdanenaiva jAyate, kRSNa-sphUraNaM tu tatra nimitta-mAtram. bhaktAnAm AyatyAM tat-prApty-AdayAt tv avazyaka eva, prApty-AdiSu ca jAteSu tad-bhAvanA-rUpasyopAdher upAdAnasyApagamAd dharSasya poSaNAc ca bubhukSAdivad viSadAdayo 'pi sukhamayatvenaiva sphurantIti duHkhamayA iva, na tu duHkhamayAH. BRS ii.5.78: AbhAsatvam Ady-antayor asthAyitvAd viyoga-lakSaNam upAdhim anv eva madhye 'py anyathA pratIyamAnatvAt. Compare GC i.1.26-7. Vishwanath Chakravarti stresses the inherently pleasurable aspects of separation in his commentary under the same verses. 46. BhP x.14.37. 47. UNc 15.187; tathApi hanta hanta yatra prakAze pUrvarAgAdivipralambho varNitas tatraiva tat-tad-anantarah sambhogo varnaniyah. prakAzAntareNa nitya-sambhoge tu prakaTa-prakAza-gatAnAM tAsAM varNita-virahANAM kA gatiH, yaM vinA tad varNanaM virasam eva syAt? yadi cAprakaTa-lIlA-gataM yat sukham tat tatra sankramed ity ucyate tarhi viraha eva na syAd iti tad varNanaM kathambhUtam? kathaM vA svayaM zrI-kRSNena, dhArayanty atikRcchreNa prAyaH prANAn kathañcana/ pratyAgamana-sandezair vallabyo me madAtmikAH// ity uktam? tasmAn mahAvipralambhAd anantaraM sambhogo 'vazyaM varNanIyaH. na ca yasminn aMze sukhaM syAt tatraiva sartavyam, seyaM prema-rItir na bhavati kintu sva-sukha-tat-parataiveti tat-priya-jananam upekSaNIyatvAt. astu tAvat tat-priya-jananam vArtA, laukika-rasa-vidAm api, na vinA vipralambhena ity adina sarvAyatyAM sambhoga-paryavasAnatayaiva sammatir dRzyate. tad-anusAreNApi nirvighna-sambhoga eva vipralambha-gaNanaM phalatayA paryavasAyanIyaH. tam etam prakaTAprakAzam evAlambanIkRtya grantha-kRtAm eSa grantho, nATakAdayo 'nye ca granthA, upAsanA ca pravRttya dRzyante. zrI-zukAdInAm apy atraivAvezaH spaSTaH zrI-brAhmaNaz ca prapañcam niSprapañco 'pi viDambayasi bhUtale/ prapanna-janatAnanda-sandoham prathituM prabho// ity atra tathaivAbhiprAyaH. prapañcAnukAraNaM hy atra janmAdi-lIlA-rUpam eva. tataz ca satyam api tasyAM nitya-lIlAyAM janmAdi-lIlaiva prapanna-jana-vRndAnAm Ananda-sandoha-hetur iti. yadi ca grantha-kRtAm atrAgraho na syAt, kintv aprakaTa-lIlAyAm eva, tarhi prakaTa-lIlayA vipralambha-duHkha-vizeSa-mayyA varNanAyAM ko lAbhah syAt? tad etad Azankya prakaTa-lIlAyAH pariNAmataH klezamayatvaM prAptam iti svayam api paritapya tat-tan-nitya-lIlA-sukha-nirUpita-lIlA-krama-rasa-paripAtIm adRSTvA svayaM sarva-rasa-paripAtI-surakAn phala-rUpAn samRddhimat-paryantAn sambhogAn vaktum Aha atha sambhoga iti. 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Jagat Posted July 11, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 <font color<#0000ff>I really hope no one is getting lost and that the argument so far is not getting lost to anyone. This last section is particularly important. Jiva is arguing that separation adds to the pleasures of lila, but only because it is followed by union. He is also saying that longterm separation is a condition only found in the prakata lila. The purpose of these arguments is to show that the lila has to end with union, not with separation, as is apparent in the BhP, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 11, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 <h3>2.5 Samrddhimat sambhoga</h3> Samrddhimat sambhoga is defined by Rupa as follows: <blockquote>When due to separation forced upon them by external forces over which they have no control, a couple are long unable to see one another, the extreme experience of pleasure [they experience upon union] is called "completely fulfilled happiness".(48)</blockquote> Jiva draws attention to the word paratantrya, and draws out the implication that the enjoyment of this highest state of union (upabhogatireka) commences with such a sense of helplessness, which is not a prerequisite in the other types of separation. The union that follows implies the resultant dissipation of this helplessness. He points to Rupa's own description of the svakiya heroines (UN 3.5), the wives in Dvaraka, who are stated expressly to serve Krishna daily, a-para-tantrah, in complete independence. But since the queens never know this state of helplessness, neither can they experience the great joy that comes after being separated due to “external forces over which they have no control.” For again, “not without separation can union reach its fulfillment.” The objection may be raised that the gopis cannot experience samrddhimat because, due to being parakiya, they could never be free from subjection to external forces. The meeting at Kurukshetra could not have instanced the samrddhimat sambhoga because the gopis' lack of freedom was not removed at that time. But if deprived of this ultimate joyful experience, which exceeds that of all the types of separation or union, how could they be considered supreme amongst all those loved by Krishna? Jiva says that it is to avert such incorrect conclusions that Rupa wrote his play Lalita-madhava and cited it here in UN to give instances of samrddhimat sambhoga (7.8 for Radha, 8.10 for Krishna).(49) In other words, the experience of union is defined in terms of separation. Without separation, union becomes devoid of meaning. Thus, though Rupa pays lip-service to the state of eternal union, he shows his preference for Krishna's comings and goings in the material world. The reason for this is that there is a surfeit of esthetic pleasure to be had in the variety of experiences undergone there. This includes not only the experience of birth, growing up, falling in love with the gopis, meeting them for the first time, etc., but even the pains of separation itself, which are pleasurable because of the periodic experiences of sphurti, avirbhava and finally, the various kinds of actual union including ultimately the samrddhimat.(50) Jiva therefore says in KrishnaS that subsequent to their ascension into the supreme heaven of Goloka, the Vrajavasins continue not only to remain absorbed in identities that are formed by the constructs of the prakata-lila, but take pleasure in remembering activities engaged in during its course.(51) There is a potency in the variety of the separation and union experienced at that time that is not found in the aprakata-lila, and that continues to be a source of charm to the residents of the divine realm,(52) though they never wish for it to happen again.(53) No doubt, the picture of the residents of Goloka, absorbed in hearing about the activities of the incarnation inspired Jiva to conceive the form taken by GC. This image would of course have no meaning if the Vrajavasins got no esthetic pleasure from hearing about the activities of Krishna's (and their own) incarnation. It is no accident then, that the prayer of Brahma quoted above is found amongst Jiva's first quotations at the beginning of Purva-campu, as well as being the last at the end of Uttara-campu. <hr><font color=#9F5f9F> NOTES 48. UN 15.207; durlabha-lokayor yUnoH pAratantryAd viyuktayoH/ upabhogAtireko yaH kIrtyate sa samRddhimAn// 49. The latter of these verses is also quoted in GC i.33.319. 50. Krishna Das Kaviraj appears to be saying the same thing in CC i.4.28: vaikuNThAdye nAhi je je lIlAra pracAra/ se se lIlA kariba jAte mora camatkAra// 51. Cf. GC i.1v38. 52. KrsnaS 182, p.105: tatra prakaTa-lIlA-gata-bhAvasya viraha-saMyogAdi-lIlA-vaicitrI-bhAravAhitvena balavattaratvAd ubhaya-lIlaikIbhavanAntaram api tanmayAs teSAm abhimAno 'nuvartata eva. 53. ibid., p.106; tena vayam aho samayagamanagamanam api sambhalayitum na parayama iti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitreya Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Originally posted by Jagat: This last section is particularly important. Jiva is arguing that separation adds to the pleasures of lila, but only because it is followed by union. He is also saying that longterm separation is a condition only found in the prakata lila. The purpose of these arguments is to show that the lila has to end with union, not with separation, as is apparent in the BhP, etc. I haven't read the preceding so this observation may have been answered already above. But the phrase "lila has to end with union" caught my eye. Surely union follows separation, but doesn't separation then follow union again?And so on and on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Dear Jagatji Indeed Sri Jiva's theology is a beautiful one. Full of details and it is actually surprising in all aspects. But as you may known, all the other Vaisnava sects do not accept it 'in toto.' As you are a broad-minded and very learned Gaudiya, just try to understand with a soft heart why they cannot accept it. Vedanta-sutras clearly states that Brahman is both the operative and the material cause of everything, refuting any other theory. All theologies that try to explain Hari's 'modus operandi' are not sanctioned by sruti. Sankhya, vaisesika, pasupata, jaina, sunyam, yoga, and sakta, etc. are all strongly refuted by Vedanta-sutras (2.2.1-45). The sutra 2.2.43 is particularly important; na ca katrttuh karanaNam - "(Hari) has no sense instruments to come in connection with any sakti." The way that He operates is beyond the reasoning faculty. The theory of saktas is untenable, because it contradicts all sacred authorities. (Vedanta 2.2.45 - vipratishedhAt ca) Therefore, conceptions such as Yogamaya's activities, passionate dealings between Hari and His saktis and specially sakti's independence and free will are not sanctioned by sruti. If a sakti is endowed with these characteristics she is to be considered as a jiva. Not as Hari's 'soul,' or something like a second Hari. Everyone knows that Sri Jiva's theology is based in smrti texts, mainly in Bhagavata Purana. But there is no reason to make smrtis on smrtis that are contradictory on srutis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Interestingly Lord Sri Caitanya is in eternal vipralambha? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 11, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Maitreyaji, Jiva's argument is that samriddhimat sambhoga only takes place in the prakata lila. Satyarajji, Perhaps we can return to this question when the article is finished. As I said before, this article is not really meant to defend Jiva's position, it is merely to establish what his position is. Kailasji, If Mahaprabhu is milita-tanu, then how can he always be in separation? He is always in union! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 All my respect Jaganandana Prabhu. >He is always in union! With whom? I not against your article, I simplly speak only about Sri Caitanya, trying correctly to understand a direction of my motion in spiritual life. Probably having realized set of aspects the God, then is possible to begin to follow in the steps Sri Caitanya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 12, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 <h3>2.6 Reunion in the prakaTa-lIlA</h3> In his commentary on BRS 3.4.76, an example of parental love in union, Jiva is at pains to show that Rupa too supported the idea of Krishna's return to Vraja. He states that Rupa wrote for devotees of various tastes, those who worshipped the cowherd Krishna, others who worshiped Krishna the Yadu, and others again without specified tastes (taTa-stha). He thus described all of Krishna's activities, whether in Vraja, in leaving Vraja or outside of Vraja, even though only the two latter groups can really find pleasure in stories of Krishna's leaving Vraja and his subsequent life, which bring no happiness to the Vrindavan devotees because of the separation they entail. Since by Rupa's own admission, the Vraja devotees are of the highest order, the pleasure of those devoted to the Vraja pastimes should be considered the highest priority. When he considered this priority, Rupa showed that his own heartfelt sentiment was in seeing the return of Krishna to Vraja and he says as much in LBhag (i.4.479) where he quotes PadP in support of this idea.(54) In seeking a solution for the tension between the desire for physical union on the part of the devotee and a philosophical state of union, in whatever terms it is expressed, Jiva argues for the integration of the two planes of Krishna's activity: prakaTAprakaTa-lIlA-samanvaya. This must take place twice in the course of Krishna's incarnation: once for the Vrindavan cycle and again for the Dvaraka. The manner in which Krishna and his retinue depart from Dvaraka to return to his eternal abode is written of in BhP and MBh, but nothing is said anywhere of any ascension into heaven of the Vrndavana group of associates. Krishna is said to have returned to Vraja, etc., in an idiosyncratic (and thus probably interpolated) prose passage towards the end of the huge and overwhelmingly versified PadP (6.279.18-27). This provides the Gaudiya theologians with all the evidence they need. To quote part of the passage, it is said that after coming to Mathura to kill Dantavakra, <blockquote>Krishna crossed the Yamuna and went to the cowherd settlement of Nanda. There he honoured his eager parents and gave them assurances; he was embraced by them choked with tears; he then bowed to all the senior cowherds and gave them assurances as well. He then satisfied everyone with gifts of cloth and jewellery. <blockquote>On the banks of the Yamuna, covered with pious trees, Kesava frolicked constantly with the cowhered women; the Lord, wearing the clothes of a cowherd, spent two months there, enjoying pleasant sports with much of the flavour of love.</blockquote> Then all the residents of the Vraja, Nanda and all the others, their sons and wives, all the birds and animals too, took on divine forms by the grace of Vasudeva, climbed on to celestial vehicles and went to the supreme Vaikuntha realm. Krishna, however, having granted the supreme destination of his own abode, entered Dvaraka while being praised by the gods in heaven.(55)</blockquote> From BhP, Jiva finds support for these events only in a verse from its first book (i.11.9) which is spoken by the residents of Dvaraka upon Krishna's return there after the battle of Kuruksetra: "When, oh lotuseyed one, you go to the land of the Kurus or Madhus to see your friends..."(56) The land of the Madhus is interpreted to mean Vrindavan, which lies within the district of Mathura, for all the friends from the city itself had been moved to Dvaraka long before. Other verses (BhP x.82.44, 83.1, xi.12.819) are also given as further proofs that the desires of the residents of Vraja, in this case of the gopis in particular, were fulfilled. Elsewhere, Jiva states that to conceive of any other end for the lila is impossible. He refers to the statement of Brahma of the extent to which Krishna is indebted to the residents of Vraja for their love for him. If even Putana the witch could attain a liberation in which she became Krishna's eternal nurse, just by having imitated one such, what could he do for them who had sacrificed their souls and everything they possessed out of a genuine love for him alone. Their desires for union with him must be fulfilled.(57) <hr><font color=#9F5f9F> NOTES 54. BRSc iii.4.76: kim cAtra granthe lIlA-varNanAs trividhAH, vraja-lIlAmayyo, vraja-tyAga-mayyah, pura-lIlAmayyaz ceti. zrotAraz ca trividhAH vraja-janAnugAH purajanAnugAs taTasthAz ca. sarveSAM sukha-poSArtham eva ca tA nirdiSTAH. tatra taTasthAnAM sarva eva sukha-poSikA bhavanti, zrI-kRSNa-mAtra-tAtparyakatvAt. purajanAnugAnAM vraja-lIlAz ca sukha-poSikA bhavanti, asmadIyAH zrImad-anakadundubhi-nandanas tatra vraje sthitvA vicitra-lIlA vidhAya puram Agatya tAsAm upadhAraNayA zrImad-anakadundubhInAM sukha-poSikA jAtA iti bhAvanayA. tasmAd AsatAm tAvad anye dve lIle. vraja-janAnugAnAM pura-sambandhinyaH sukha-poSikA na bhavanty eva, pratyuta duHkha-poSikAH, punas tasya vraja-gamanAnuTTankanAt. tataz ca vraja-lIlAmayyAz ca duHkha-datvenaiva paryavasitAH, kim uta vraja-tyAga-mayyAH. sarveSAm eva ca sukham poSTum icchadbhir grantha-kRdbhiH sarvA lIlA varNitAH. vizeSataz ca, alaukikI tv iyam kRSNa-ratiH sarvAdbhutAdbhutA/ tatrApi vallavAdhIza-nandanAlambanA ratiH/ sAndrAnanda-camatkAra-paramAvadhir iSyate//(BRS 2.5.108-10) iti spaSTokter vraja-janAnugAnAm eva sarvAdhikaM sukhaM poSTavyam. tasmAd ukta-rItyA svayam eva samkSepa-bhAgavatAmRte likhitaM zrI-kRSNasya punar vraja-gamana-pUrvakaM pura-gata-tat-tad-vijaya-zravaNAd api puSTa-sukhAnAM vraja-janAnAM madhye nityAvasthAnam eva grantha-kRtam hRd-gatam. tena tac-chravaNena vraja-janAnugA api puSTa-sukhAH syuH. parokSa-vAdA RSayaH parokSam ca mama priyam (BhP xi.21.32) itivat. prakaTaM tu tan na paThitam iti jñeyam. 55. kRSNo 'pi taM hatvA yamunAm uttIrya nanda-vrajaM gatvA sotkaNThau pitarAv abhivAdyAzvAsya tAbhyAM sAzru-kaNTham AlingitaH sakala-gopa-vRddhAn praNamyAzvAsya bahuvastrAbhAraNAdibhis tatrasthAn sarvAn santarpayAmAsa. kAlindyAH puline ramye punya-vRkSa-samAcite/ gopa-nAribhir anizaM krIDayAmAsa kezava// ramya-keli-sukhenaiva gopa-veza-dharaH prabhuH/ bahu-prema-rasenAtra mAsa-dvayam uvAsa ha// Moer information is given above, see note 12. 56. yarhy ambujAkSApasasAra bhavAn kvacit kurUn madhUn vAtha suhRd-didRkSayA, etc. 57. Locana-rocanI to BRS 3.4.76; nityAvasthAM cAtra kaimutyena gaty-antara-svIkAreNa ca zrImad-bhAgavate darzitam, eSAM ghoSa-nivAsinAm uta bhavAn kiM deva rAteti naH (x.14.35) etc. ..tasya teSu nitya-prAptes teSAm tat-praptez cAnAdi-kalpa-paramparA-prAptatvAn nityAvasthAnAm avagamyate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 13, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 <h3>3.0 The svakiya-parakiya controversy: background</h3> The term parakiya arises from the literary critical tradition rather than the puranic. The word means "belonging to another" and generally indicates "the wife of another", the equivalent of para-dAra (in Kama-sutra), para-yoSit, para-kalatra, etc. According to the KavyAlaMkara of Rudrata, the first extant work which makes the division of the nAyikA into parakIyA and svakIy, it includes both unmarried virgins (kanya) and adulteresses (paroDhA).(1) Though it is clear that the gopis were always conceived of as being parakIyA, there is some uncertainty about which of its two categories they belonged to. The earliest epic/puranic source, Harivamsa, and the earliest secular source, Hala's Gahasattasai, make no definitive clarification of the matter, though in a verse pertaining to the Sattasai tradition, the gopis are depicted as still hoping for marriage to Krishna, thus indicating they are kanyas.(2) In Bhasa's Balacarita, another early source which mentions Krishna's comparatively innocent dancing with the gopis, they would appear to be young unmarried girls. By the time of the ViP, however, it is clear that at least some of the gopis were considered to be married (v.13.59, 24.16) and at around the same time, Magha's Sisupala rails against Krishna's being a lover of the wives of other men.(3) The secular poetic tradition, meanwhile, gingerly delved into some aspects of the paroDhA relationship. Hala has a few humorous verses in which an adulterous woman (Pkt. asaI) advertises her availability to a stranger(4), or cleverly deceives her husband as he catches her red-handed with her lover.(5) There are also some wistful verses in which the asaI is seen in a more positive light and her activities are taken as serious expressions of love. In the later poetic tradition as found in the Sanskrit anthologies, the asati is most often described either in her role as a serious flirt or as an anxiety-ridden but beautiful abhisArikA on her way to the trysting place. It would appear, surprisingly, that these themes only gradually found their way into writing about Krishna, and furthermore that Krishna's love affairs were not taken up seriously as a literary subject to any great extent by poets of stature. Only a handful of muktakas (individual verses not belonging to any larger work) are found in the early Sanskrit anthologies in which the gopis are described in accordance with the abhisArikA theme, etc., but no complete work of literature with such a relation as its basis and dating from the pre-Chaitanya period survives to the present day. In general the poeticians or dramatic theoreticians did not consider the parakIyA nAyikA to be a relishable topic for literature or drama. The critics and the poets using the Sanskrit medium, starting with Bharata, themselves had roots in a courtly tradition steeped in its own peculiar tastes and values. The overwhelming number of heroes in Sanskrit dramas are kings, of whom only Rama is monogamous. The parakIyA woman was avoided, even when, as in Krishna's case, theological considerations might have absolved the author of fault. The ambivalence to the subject was so strong in the courtly circles, that in the 14th century, Vishwanath gave an example of an exchange between Krishna and a gopi as an example of rasAbhAsa, even while including the benedictory formula, hariH pAtu vaH.(6) Though the South-Indian Alvar Vaishnavas who promoted the erotic spirit in devotionalism were primarily interested in the mood of the young virgin who seeks a marital relation with Krishna, when their traditions were joined to that of the ViP in BhP, the parodha relation was wholeheartedly adopted. In addition to the parodha in BhP, however, the kanya mood of Kotai also finds a place (in x.22) and other Alvar themes are also used in the descriptions of the sentiments of the queens of Dvaraka (x.52, x.90). The court of the Bengal Sen dynasty, whose roots were in Karnataka, also cultivated Krishnaite eroticism. The verses about Krishna in Sridhara's Sad-ukti-karnamrta contain some of the most unambiguous parodha material. At the same time and place, however, Jayadeva's Gitagovinda appears to reflect the idea of a transcendental Krishna, one who incarnates in ten avataras, but whose original form is engaged in an eternal cycle of love-games with Radha in a world which has no place for other men; Krishna is the only male in the Vrindavan of Gitag. In this unreal world there is no need for a formal marital relationship. We are occasionally reminded of the activities of Krishna's other incarnations in which existed the parakiya relation to Radha (1.1) or the married relation to Laksmi (12.25). Though some find evidence in the Gitag for the parakiya mood,(7) it is not strong, while the words pati and dampati can also be found referring to Krishna's relation with Radha.8 Thus it would appear that the dichotomy of the prakata and aprakata relations was intuited by Jayadeva, if it were not already a matter of dogmatic belief amongst the Vaishnavas of the day. Jayadeva's vision of Radha and Krishna had an all-pervasive influence in both the secular and devotional worlds, but probably more in the latter than the former. Poets such as Surdas and Hit Harivams seem to have visualized the relationship of the divine Radha and Krishna in terms not dissimilar to his. There are a few isolated examples of later works, secular in character, in which Krishna is said to have been married to Radha.(10) On the other hand, those puranic sources which discuss Radha's marriage to Ayana or mention Krishna's marriage to Radha, all appear to be of eastern Indian provenance and very late in their composition. They were most likely unknown to Jiva.(11) The popularity of the Radha-Krishna theme in the vernacular song-writing and literature of eastern India in the 15th century gave particular impetus to the parakiya conception. Badu Chandi Das seems to have been the first to record the name of Radha's husband and his relation to Krishna's mother, adding a further forbidden dimension to their liaison. At the same time, another Chandi Das poignantly expressed the emotional dimension of such forbidden love. Paradoxically, though it is generally thought that Chandi Das used Radha and Krishna as a metaphor for his own deeply-felt love for a married woman, he was responsible for respiritualizing that which to a great extent had lost its spiritual dimension. In this period of flourishing Bengali culture, the BhP seems to have made a sudden appearance. Whether or not the BhP in its present form was current in Bengal prior to this period cannot be stated with absolute certainty. We know that Lakshman Sena's work Adbhuta-sara (late 12th c.) contains a few verses from BhP iii, but other than this, the learned works of the early medieval period show a complete ignorance of this purana.(12) Those aspects of BhP which are the most profound are only marginally influential on the vernacular works referred to above. In the late 15th century, however, translations of BhP started to appear in Bengali and this purana became the main religious text for the bhakti revival of Chaitanya. Rupa Gosvamin was the first to write in Sanskrit to any great length about the parodha relationship, and certainly the first to have made Krishna the centrepiece of an entire drama, Vidagdha-Madhava, that is filled with parodha themes. Furthermore, in his influential theoretical works, Rupa glorified the parakiya loves of the gopis in terms which rendered anti-climactic the existence of any svakiya relation with them. Nevertheless, Jiva was not only convinced that scripture supported the view that Krishna was married to the gopis, but that Rupa Gosvamin also supported it. Jiva's arguments can be divided into two categories as they were for the establishment of Krishna's return to Vraja: those based entirely on revealed statements from BhP and other puranas, and those based on the divine esthetics and writings of Rupa Gosvamin. <hr><font color=#6f9f9f> NOTES 1. Kavyalamkara 12.30: parakIyA tu dvedhA kanyoDhA ceti. The virgin is included somewhat artificially under the parakiya rubric ostensibly because she is under the protection of her father. Cf. Dhanika's Avaloka to Dazarupaka 2.20: kanyakA tu pitradyayattatvAd apariNItApy anya-strIty ucyate. Bharata in Natya-sastra, 22.154, uses different terminology for slightly different categories of nayika. bahiranga, etc. Kamasutra also clearly distinguishes the kanya from the paradara; the former is in fact discussed as a sviya nayika for men expected to wed a virgin. 2. Hala 435. 3. Sis 16.8; Krtagopavadhurater ghnato vrsam ugre narake 'pi samprati/ pratipattir adhahkrtainaso janatabhis tava sadhu varnyate// The verse has a double meaning: Sisupala intends to insult Krsna, but the poet protects him from the blasphemy. Thus despite Krsna's engagement in what is universally accepted as sinful activity, e.g. adultery and cattle slaughter, he was not adversely affected by such activity. 4. Hala 669, ettha nimajja‹ atta ettha aham, ettha pariano sayalo/ e pahiya rattiyandhaya ma maha sayane nimajjihisi// [i.e. ito nivasati svasrur atraham atra parijanah sakalah/ he pathika ratryanda ma mama sayane nimanksyase//] 5. ibid. 397, 401. 6. SahD 3.82. 7. Lee Siegel writes in Sacred and Profane Traditions of Love in Indian Traditions, Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1978, 119. "Radha is clearly a parakiya nayika - her love-making with Krsna is in defiance of Nanda, Krsna's foster father, who as a representative of authority exemplifies the social order, the ideal of dharma." But later, "Jayadeva avoids clarity; the relationship is ambiguous." (ibid., 120) 8. Gitagovinda 5.19: dampatyor iha ko na ko na tamasi vri.davimisro rasah; 12.13: patyur manah kilitam; 9. J. S. Hawley, "A Vernacular Portrait: Radha in the Sur Sagar", in (ed.) Hawley, The Divine Consort, p.53. "If anything, Sur seems to relish the ambiguity of Radha's position somewhere between wife and mistress. Its lack of definition adds to her fascination and ... acts as a factor that makes her ultimately worthy of worship.... It is not her position that matters but her feeling, and the ambiguity of her position serves to underscore that effect." 10. Pancatantra, (ed.) D. D. Kosambi, Bombay: Nirnayasagara Press (9th edn.), 1950, p.54: Radha nama me bharya gopakulaprasuta prathamam asit, sa tvam avatirna. Campubhagavata 6.67ff. 11. Of these Brahmavaivartapurana is perhaps the most significant and has had the widest appeal. Radha is Krsna's wife: BVP ii.48.47: svayam Radha Krsnapatni Krsnavaksahsthalasthita/ pranadhisthatrdevi ca tasyaiva paramatmanah// Brahma conducts Krsna and Radha's wedding ceremony in rather unusual circumstances: BVP ii.49.37-43, iv.15.119-131. This same story is retold in Gargasamhita, Golokakhan.da, ch. 16. On the other hand Radha's marriage to Ayana is spoken of in BVP ii.51.34: tam Radham upasamyamy ayanagopo mahamune/ klibatvam sahasa prapa sambhor icchanusaratah// Different combinations of these elements, apparently derived from BVP are to be found in Maha-bhagavatapurana, Brahman.dapurana, Devibhagavatapurana. Cf. R. C. Hazra, Studies in the Upapuranas, (Calcutta University, 1969), for the eastern Indian provenance of these works. PadP iv.82 contains material on the 24 hour day of Krsna which follows closely that of Govindalilamrta. This entire section of PadP (iv.69-83) is almost certainly an interpolation by someone influenced by Gau.diya Vaisnava ideas. Most notably, comp. BRS i.2.22 and PadP iv.77.62 or Pv 83 (= CC ii.19.106) and PadP iv.77.52. Major citations found frequently in Gaudiya works, such as PadP iv.81.54 (Brhad-gautamiya-tantra, GC i.15.14), iv.76.8-12 (ibid., GC i.1.18), iv.69.23 (BrS 5.2, GC i.1.21) etc., etc., are never attributed to PadP. 12. Cf. Sukumar Sen, Bangla Sahityer Itihas, ii.1 (1978), 98-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted July 13, 2001 Report Share Posted July 13, 2001 Excuse, I badly understand English, could not you tell - they married whether or not? Yes whether or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 17, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 Keep reading. I'll be posting here now. Answer: YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 17, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 <h3>3.1 Arguments from the religious texts</h3> To establish the eternal wedded condition of Krishna with his consorts, Jiva is faced with even more problems than he had in establishing the return of Krishna to Vraja. Just as Krishna's return to Vraja is nowhere stated overtly in BhP, his chief source of evidence, neither is there any wedding of Krishna to the gopis. The BhP author's vision of the gopis seems to be ambivalent. On the one hand, certain verses describe the gopis as ignorant sinners who are redeemed by their love for Krishna (Cf. x.47.59), whereas others in Uddhava's eulogy of them show the seeds of an understanding that they are goddesses even more glorious than Lakshmi (Cf. x.47.60ff). Nevertheless, Krishna's chief queen Rukmini is positively identified as Lakshmi and her fortune (and that of the other queens) at having Krishna's constant company is stated to be out of the reach of the gopis.(<u>13</u>) It is doubtful that the puranas and upapuranas of east-Indian provenance such as Brahma-vaivarta or Maha-bhagavata were available at that time in their current form. Jiva, in any case makes no use of any evidence that these works might have provided toward proving his case. He is rather left once again to argue valiantly from whatever weak evidence he finds to confirm his dogma. He felt it necessary to show, not only that Krishna has an eternal relationship with the gopis which is self-evident (svataH-siddha), but that this relation had to be established by ritual means, viz. a wedding, in the manifest lila also after the false relationship with the gopis' so-called husbands had been revealed as a sham. The evidences marshalled together by Jiva can be roughly divided into three categories. First, those that argue that the gopis are eternally united with Krishna in the eternal or aprakata lila, i.e. that they belong to his hladini sakti or pleasure-giving potency and are thus his de facto wives. Next are those evidences that are used to argue that the gopis desired to become his wives and even considered themselves to be such during the course of the prakata lila, when others understood them to be wives of other men. Finally, Jiva argues on the basis of weaker evidence, that after Krishna return to Vraja, he actually did sanctify his relation with the gopis by a wedding ceremony. <hr><font color=#9f6f9f> NOTES 13. Rukmini is named Sri in BhP x.49.46, x.54.60, x.53.37, x.60.9, etc. Cf. KrsnaS 185. BhP i.10.28: nUnaM vrata-snAna-hutAdinezvaraH samArcito hy asya gRhIta-pANIbhiH/ pibanti yAH sakhy-adharAmRtaM muhur vraja-striyaH saMmumuhur yad-AzayAH// Naturally the Gaudiya commentators see praise of the gopis in this verse, a testimony to the depth of their love. Cf. also i.10.30: etAH param strItvam apasta-peSalam nirasta-zaucaM bata sAdhu kurvate/ yAsAM gRhAt puSkara-locanAH patir na jAtv apaity AhRtibhir hRdi spRzan// etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 Therefore also is spoken, become devoted Sri Caitnyi. Then all anxieties will leave, I am correct I speak Jagat Prabhu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted July 17, 2001 Report Share Posted July 17, 2001 Material world reflection spiritual. Therefore parakiya the race is eternal top of a spiritual world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted July 18, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 <h3>3.12 The appearance of a marriage elsewhere is illusory</h3> If the gopis are Krishna's eternal saktis, then they cannot possibly "belong" to anyone else. The entire event of marriage has been managed by Krsna's yoga-maya, of whom he is said to have taken shelter at the beginning of the rasa dance (x.29.1). In BhP, the gopis' husbands are said to have been bewildered by this Maya and so they did not feel angry with Krishna.(28) Rather they thought, "How could Krishna, who is the very centre of our religion, our meaning, our friends, our dear ones, our hearts, our children, our lives and our souls, possibly do anything inauspicious like accept the wife of another man?"(29) In order to protect Krishna's eternal wives from the sexual approaches of others, she created duplicate forms of them which their so-called husbands saw by their sides. The BhP states that this took place on the night of the rasa dance, but of course, the supremely powerful Yogamaya had been constantly vigilant to protect the gopis from dishonour ever since they were married to the other cowherds.(30) In some editions of KrishnaS, KurmaP (32.513-30) is quoted in full to show how Sita prayed to the household sacrificial fire when she realized that Ravana sought to abduct her. By the fire god's grace, Ravana was not able to abduct the real Sita, but was left with a Doppelgängerin. This was later revealed at the time of her trial by fire after her safe return to Ayodhya. Jiva adds, "As the same rule is seen to take effect for any devoted wife in similar circumstances by the power of her devotion to her husband, then why would Maya, who serves the husband of the gopis, not especially protect them in the way that Rama's fire protected Sita? For Garga said about devotees in general that Krishna's enemies will never overcome those who take shelter of him (x.8.18), what to speak of the gopis who never abandon him even in error."(31) A similar statement is made in Rupa Goswami's LalM by Paurnamasi, the personification of Yogamaya, in answer to questions by Gargi: <blockquote>Gargi: Then surely the marriage of Govardhana and the other cowherds to Candravali and the other gopis was arranged by Maya. Paurnamasi: What else? The gopis are the wives of these cowherds only in the sense that the latter claim possession of them, but that is all. In fact, they rarely even see one another.(32)</blockquote> Thus, when an apparent reference is made to the gopis' children in BhP and elsewhere, it should be otherwise understood, for if such children existed a contradictory sentiment (rasAbhAsa) would result.(33) They might be considered the offspring of other women, such as their sisters-in-law, etc. as in x.29.6 where pAyayantyah zizUn payaH is to be so interpreted, for had these children indeed been the gopis', the words sutAn stanam would have been used. In x.29.20, where Krishna says that "Your mothers, fathers, sons, brothers and husbands are searching for you", it should be taken that Krishna is joking, otherwise there would have been rasAbhAsa in view of the fact that he was about to accept them. <hr><font color=#6f9f9f>NOTES 28. nAsUyan khalu kRSNAya mohitAs tasya mAyayA/ manyamAnAH svapArzvasthAn svAn svAn dArAn vrajaukasaH// BhP x.33.37; 29. tasya mAyayA mohitAH santo nAsUyan tasya sva-nitya-preyasI-svIkAra-lakSaNe katham asAv asmad-dharmArtha-suhRt-priyAtma-tanaya-prANazaya-jIvAtutamaH para-dAra-svIkAra-mangalam angIkarotIti doSAropaM nAkurvann iti. KrsnaS 177, p.101. 30. ibid.; parama-samarthayas tasya mAyayA nija-prabhu-preyasInAM tad-ekAnurAga-svabhAvAnAM maryAdA-rakSanArthaM pariNayam Arabhya sadaiva sAvadhAnatayA yogyatvAt tad-dinam upalakSaNam eveti. 31. ibid. (fn.1); tad evam pati-vratA-mAtrANAM vizeSataH zrI-bhagavat-preyasya prabhave sati, ya etasmin mahAbhAge prItim kurvanti mAnavAh/ narayo 'bhibhavanty etan viSNu-pakSAn ivAsura // iti sAmAnya-viSaye garga-vacane ca sati tadRzInAM bhrame 'pi nitya-kAntam aparityajantInAM nityaM tat-kAntam paricaranti mayA zrI-rAmAvasathyAgnivad api kim rakSAm na kurvIta? Jiva also gives the example of Sita's being saved by Agni in this way in GC ii.32.58. 32. LalM 1.54-5, p.15; Gargi: "nUnaM goaDDhanaigoehim candavali-pahudinam ubbaho maae nivvahido." [nUnaM govardhanAdi-gopaih candrAvalI-prabhRtInAm udvAho 'pi mAyayA nirvAhitaH.] Paurnamasi: "atha kim. patiMmanyAnAM ballavAnAM mamatAmAtravazeSitA tAsu dAratA. yad ebhiH prekSaNam api tAsAM durghaTitam. 33. ibid., p.102; svapatyatve sati vibhava-vaiguNyena rasAbhAsatvam Apadyeta.<small><font color=#f7f7f7> [This message has been edited by Jagat (edited 07-18-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted July 18, 2001 Report Share Posted July 18, 2001 talasiga says that: The Gopis are more Bhakti than Shakti Bhakti is Pure Love and therefore needs no contract (such as marriage) for its subsistence. Not much can be learnt from them except that following in their footsteps can lead to the greatest Separation. Further, Bhakti transcends the three Gunas and is beyond the Law and cannot be ratified or invalidated by concerns of legitimacy or illegitamacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 in the year that all the gopas are kidnapped by sri brahma, krsna substitutes them all. In that year, weddings are arranged between the gopas/krsna and the gopis. In this way krsna married the gopis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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