Prabodhananda Saraswati, part 2

[Puru Das Adhikari]

Sri Krsna manifests his Bhauma lila eternally, somwhere in a material universe.

shvu, I don't expect you to accept SBSST's explanation necessarily, but since you asked here is some of his explanation of such phenomenon as the Lord's "birth."

 

Satyaraj please scroll past this post. Ignore what SBSST says. He is not speaking to you. Our acaryas were and are always filled with nothing but compassion and love for the jiva souls rotting in this external energy, devoid of spiritual realization. Jaundiced senses simply cannot appreciate the sweetness of rock candy.

 

I posted SBSST's article so Ananga and others can see that even the founder of 67 mathas understood the limitations of any institution without the presence of sadhu-sanga guidance.

SBSST is not your personal target to take pot shots at because of your personal dilemna. Your evaluations of him are tiresome, and only self dstructive. You no longer accept him then ignore him. If you persist in insulting him you will simply drag this discussion into the mud of vaisnava aparadha yet again. To what avail? To make yourself feel better about your rejection of his guru varga? Live with your decision. You don't need validation from cyberspace if you are acting on genuine realization anyway.

 

 

"Advaita means "indivisible truth who is knowledge absolute." Brahman, the infinite, emanates from Him as His effulgence and God-immanent (Paramatma) as His constituent; but nevertheless He remains one and indivisible. Acyuta means that though myriads of avataras emanate from Him as subjective portions and millions of jivas as separated spiritual particles, still He remains intact as the undivided whole of fullest perfection. Though He indulges in exhibiting the pastimes of births, etc., still He is without a beginning. Though He disappears after the pastimes of His appearance, still He is eternal. Though without origin, yet He is with an origin in His pastime of appearance; and although eternal in essence, He is still a person in the full bloom of youth. The sum and substance of it is that though He possesses diverse and apparently mutually contradictory qualities, still they are in universal harmonious concordance by dint of His unthinkable potency. This is what is meant by cid-dharma (transcendental nature) as distinguished from the material. His graceful threefold-bending form with flute in hand, possesses eternal blooming youth and is above all unwholesomeness that is to be found in limited time and space. In the transcendental realm there is no past and future but only the unalloyed and immutable present time. In the transcendental sphere there is no distinction between the object and its qualities and no such identity as is found in the limited mundane region. Hence those qualities that seem to be apparently contradictory in the light of mundane conception limited by time and space, exist in agreeable and dainty concordance in the spiritual realm. How can the jiva realize such unprecedented existence? The limited intellectual function of the jiva is always contaminated by the influence of time and space and is, therefore, not in a position to shake off this limitedness. If the potency of cognitive function does not extend to the realization of the transcendental, what else can? In reply. Brahma says that the transcendental Absolute is beyond the reach of the Vedas. The Vedas originate in sound and sound originates in the mundane ether. So the Vedas cannot present before us a direct view of the transcendental world (Goloka). It is only when the Vedas are imbued with the cit potency that they are enabled to deal with the transcendental. But Goloka reveals itself to every jiva-soul when he is under the influence of the spiritual cognitive potency joined to the essence of ecstatic energy. The ecstatic function of devotion is boundless and is surcharged with unalloyed transcendental knowledge. That knowledge reveals goloka-tattva (the principle of the highest transcendental) in unison with devotion, without asserting itself separately but as a subsidiary to unalloyed devotion."

 

SBSST

purport sloka 33 Braham-samhita

 

". . . All these arts manifesting their own eternal forms are ever visible in the region of Goloka as the ingredients of rasa; and, in the mundane sphere, they have been unstintedly exhibited in the pastimes of Vraja by the spiritual (cit) potency. Yogamaya. So Sri Rupa says, sadanantaih... santi tah, i.e., Krsna is ever manifest in His beauty with His infinite pastimes in Goloka. Sometimes the variant manifestation of those pastimes becomes visible on the mundane plane. Sri Hari, the Supreme Lord, also manifests His pastimes of birth, etc., accompanied by all His paraphernalia. The divine sportive potency fills the hearts of His paraphernalia with appropriate spiritual sentiments in conformity with the will of Krsna. Those pastimes that manifest themselves on the mundane plane, are His visible pastimes. All those very pastimes exist in their nonvisible form in Goloka beyond the ken of mundane knowledge. In His visible pastimes Krsna sojourns in Gokula, Mathura and Dvaraka. Those pastimes that are nonvisible in those three places, are visible in their spiritual sites of Vrndavana.

 

From the conclusions just stated it is clear that there is no distinction between the visible and nonvisible pastimes. The apostle Jiva Gosvami in his commentary on this sloka as well as in the gloss of Ujjvala-nilamani and in Krsna-sandarbha remarks that "the visible pastimes of Krsna are the creation of His cit (spiritual) potency. Being in conjunction with the reference to mundane function they exhibit certain features which seem to be true by the influence of the limiting potency (Maya); but these cannot exist in the transcendental reality. The destruction of demons, illicit paramourship, birth, etc., are examples of this peculiarity. The gopis are the extensions of the ecstatic energy of Krsna, and so are exceptionally His own. How can there be illicit connection in their case? The illicit mistress-ship of the gopis found in His visible pastime, is but the mundane reflection of the transcendental reality." The hidden meaning underlying the words of Sri Jiva Gosvami, when it is made explicit, will leave no doubt in the minds of the readers. Sri Jiva Gosvami is our preacher of transcendental truth. So he is always under the influence of Sri Rupa and Sanatana. Moreover in the pastimes of Krsna Sri Jiva is one of the manjaris. So he is conversant with all transcendental realities.

There are some who, being unable to understand the drift of his statements, give meanings of their own invention and indulge in useless controversies. Sri Rupa and Sanatana say that there is no real and essential distinction between the lilas visible and nonvisible, the only distinction lies in this that one is manifest in the mundane sphere whereas the other is not so. In the supermundane manifestation there is absolute purity in the seer and the seen. A particularly fortunate person when he is favored by Krsna, can shake off worldly shackles and connections, enter the transcendental region after attaining the realized taste of the varieties of rasa that is available during the period of novitiate. Only such a person can have a view and taste of the perfect and absolutely pure lila of Goloka. Such receptive natures are rarely to be found. He, who exists in the mundane sphere, can also realize the taste of cid-rasa by the grace of Krsna by being enabled to attain the realized state of service. Such a person can have a view of the pastimes of Goloka manifested in the mundane lila of Gokula. There is certainly a difference between these two classes of eligible seekers of the truth. Until one attains the perfectly transcendental stage he must be hampered by his lingering limitations, in his vision of the pastimes of Goloka. Again, the vision of the transcendental reality varies according to the degree of self-realization. The vision of Goloka must also vary accordingly.

It is only those fettered souls who are excessively addicted to worldliness that are devoid of the devotional eye. Of them some are enmeshed by the variegatedness of the deluding energy while others aspire after self-annihilation under the influence of centrifugal knowledge. Though they might have a view of the mundanely manifested pastimes of the Supreme Lord, they can have only a material conception of those visible pastimes, this conception being devoid of transcendental reality. Hence the realization of Goloka appears in proportion to eligibility due to the degree of one's self-realization. The underlying principle is this, that, though Gokula is as holy and free from dross as Goloka, still it is manifested on the mundane plane by the influence of the cit potency. Yogamaya. In visible and nonvisible matters of transcendental regions there is no impurity. contamination and imperfection inherent in the world of limitation; only there is some difference in the matter of realization in proportion to the self-realization of the seekers after the Absolute. Impurity. unwholesomeness, foreign elements, illusion, nescience, unholiness, utter inadequacy. insignificance, grossness--these appertain to the eye, intellect, mind and ego stultified by the material nature of conditioned souls; they have nothing to do with the essential nature of transcendence. The more one is free from these blots the more is one capable of realizing the unqualified Absolute. The truth who has been revealed by the scriptures, is free from dross. But the realizations of the seekers of the knowledge of these realities, are with or without flaw in accordance with the degree of their individual realization."

 

 

SBSST

purport sloka 37 SBS

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Puru Das Adhikari (edited 07-23-2001).]

[shvu]

 

The materialist has a natural repugnance for the transcendent. He is disposed to link that faith in the incomprehensible is the parent of dogmatism and hypocrisy in the guise of religion.

 

That just about describes me.

 

He is also equally under the delusion that there is no real dividing line between the material and the spiritual..

There is no such thing as spiritual to the materialist. There is just the body and there is no death.

 

...he is strengthened in his delusion by the interpretation of scriptures by persons who are like-minded with himself. This includes all the lexicographic interpreters.

Au contraire, the materialist is clear that he has no beliefs in para-normal stuff. So if anyone is under a delusion, it is the religious guy who is willing to believe in things without proof so long as it sounds exciting enough. The materialist at times, feels sorry for such people...sorry to see them being taken for a ride.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

That the whole text presented by you is only a inference on a smrti.

You keep saying shruti, shruti, but up till now you have never quoted a single verse from shruti.

 

Except for those four or five verses in the 'Did Rama eat Meat thread?' which you just copied from someone else without even looking in the text for context.

 

You are really deluding yourself if you think your views are somehow 'shruti' when in reality you have yet to study the shruti under a guru in a traditional manner. And yes, it is required that one study the shruti under a bonafide guru and receive diksha into that line of learning. Those born in Brazil really have no access to learning shruti in the strict sense, and if Shankara was alive today he would probably be running around South America looking to pour lead in people's ears.

 

With that in mind, your claimed allegiance to something which you are barred from studying by tradition is quite odd.

 

Of course by the process of pancharatrika diksha even a mleccha can become a brahmana and become qualified to study shruti. But seeing how you reject other texts other than shruti (such as the pancharatras), you are pretty much stuck.

 

Even the smartist smarta doesn't have the view that you hold in regards to shruti. It is a creation of the amazon rain forests.

 

 

[Puru Das Adhikari]

Originally posted by shvu:

Au contraire, the materialist is clear that he has no beliefs in para-normal stuff. So if anyone is under a delusion, it is the religious guy who is willing to believe in things without proof so long as it sounds exciting enough. The materialist at times, feels sorry for such people...sorry to see them being taken for a ride.

 

Cheers

 

Spare your pity. No one expects you to agree with Sri Krsna, especially His statements in the Bg. That is made very clear by SBSST in his remarks. After all since you didn't meet Lord Braham in the coffee shop this morning why bother to consider his Brahma-samhita? Your reaction is proof enough of the valdity of Sarasvati Thakur's observations about the materialistic demeanor which he says:

 

"

The materialistic demeanor cannot possibly stretch to the transcendental autocrat who is ever inviting the fallen conditioned souls to associate with Him through devotion or eternal serving mood. The phenomenal attractions are often found to tempt sentient beings to enjoy the variegated position which is opposed to undifferenced monism. People are so much apt to indulge in transitory speculations even when they are to educate themselves on a situation beyond their empiric area or experiencing jurisdiction. The esoteric aspect often knocks them to trace out immanence in their outward inspection of transitory and transformable things. This impulse moves them to fix the position of the immanent to an indeterminate impersonal entity, no clue of which could be discerned by moving earth and heaven through their organic senses/"

SBSST

 

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Puru Das Adhikari (edited 07-23-2001).]

[shvu]

 

...if Shankara was alive today he would probably be running around South America looking to pour lead in people's ears.

Let me clarify that Shankara when commmenting on the BS, refers to other statements from Smriti like Manu Smriti, etc. It was not his original suggestion that Shudras should be tortured for hearing the Vedas. Such an idea was already present in older literature written by someone else and was only quoted by Shankara for they were considered authority during his time.

 

I would be highly surprised if other commentators [including Baladeva] disgreed with the Sutras that Shudras should not hear Vedas.

 

Cheers

 

[shvu]

 

Spare your pity. No one expects you to agree with Sri Krsna, especially His statements in the Bg.

Come on Puru, isn't it a good thing to feel concern for our fellow human beings? Don't

you feel concerned about the fate of 'misguided' atheists?

 

Thanx for the follow up on 'eternal birth'.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

Jndas: Of course by the process of pancharatrika diksha even a mleccha can become a brahmana and become qualified to study shruti.

 

Satyaraj: According to the same experts in Kali-yuga's behavior, in all Kali-yugas mlecchas, sudras, and other low castes and untouchables use to wear brahminical threads given by saffroned preachers following some obscure scriptures. I got for two times some threads like that in South America!!!

 

So, by inference, I had became a brahmanin and now I am mastered in Vedas and even can teach the Vedas to the twice-born. That's the miracle made by some missionaries.

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

So, by inference, I had became a brahmanin and now I am mastered in Vedas and even can teach the Vedas to the twice-born. That's the miracle made by some missionaries.

In Kali Yuga even the cows have gone mad!

 

 

[Ananga]

Satyaraja das: Which Satyaraj are you? The one from Brazil? The one from New York City? Some other one? Just curious.

[Tarun]

Don't invite any Rtvik or GBC types for this next quote.

They'll all go out right away to purchase trampolines for cushioning their consequent backflips.

Those already here can hear.

Others will misconstrue.

Perhaps you already know this.

After hearing some of my guru's CC purports, Zrila Bhaktiraxaka Zridhar Mhrj said at least one "should be changed."

That one and a few others were being repeatedly misinterpreted.

This is still going on.

The principle is this:

If any portion of any zAstra is misguiding people... it must be adjusted.

People may be upset with me for typing this, but the truth must be said.

Let the cards fall where they may.

This does not mean I agree with GBC/BBT tampering with PrabhupAd's books.

Not in the least.

The aim of zAstra is to guide zisyas from kaniSTha to madhyam to uttam.

Any zAstra that's doing that... fine.

Any portion of any zAstra that's blocking that flow... dump it.

Kick it so far away, even NASA won't be able to detect its orbit.

 

[Tarun]

SatyarAj: remember the film Poltergeist?

In many Science Fiction flicks, people have to pass "through a wall" from one dimension to another.

Sadguru can afford you/us that.

Of course we have to be ready.

If PrabodhAnanda Sarasvati was/is ASTasakhI TungavidyA, he/she certainly had that transfer power.

As for who has that zakti today?

Our fleshy eyes cannot distinguish.

We're left in the dark or we follow out innermost voice/intuition.

No visible/external sign can verify/identify sadguru.

 

[Puru Das Adhikari]

Gour Premanande!!!

[Puru Das Adhikari]

Dandavats to one and all. I have in my possession (in the original bengali), in 5 jpeg files and article written by nitya lila pravistha astottara sata sri Srila Promode Puri Gosvami Maharaj. Published in the 23rd year of the Sri Caitanya Vani magazine, from his bhajana kutir in Calcutta, at the Sri Caitanya Gaudiya Matha. this article is directly on this topic. It is the source information for remarks about Srila Prabhodananda Sarsvati, summarized by His Divine grace Srila Bhakti Ballabh Tirtha Gosvami, in his new book about the associates of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. There is no doubt from this article that Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and Srila Prabhodananda Sarasvati Thakura are different personalities.

[gHari]

Brazil.

[Tarun]

Copenhagen.