left v right

[mahak]

Haribol. Well, not to sound to muck like treading between the to as patronization of both, it is a fact that diversity makes the world go round.

 

The left versus right debate is everywhere, but it seems to me that the folks I personally trust the least are the ones who cannot see the values in both sides or are willing to adopt a platform of consistancy contrary to common sense.

 

Take the far right or the far left, it does not matter, for they are two sides of the same coin. On the right side, there is admirable stance on human life in the womb, yet there is no such passion in wanting to make sure "innocent" are not killed unjustly via capital punishment. The far left wants to save trees, whales, insects and birds, wants all capital punishment banned and cry even for the most atrocious of less than human afflictors of misery upon innocent, yet have no feelings at all for the innocent just wanting a chance to make it out of the womb alive.

 

In political circles, this inconsistancy is obvious. In the last decade, there was outcry for the crimes of genocide in white Eastern Europe, while equal and even more vicious genocide was taking place in Africa without so much as a statement in the press.

 

Bottom line, humanity is not black or white, it is the ability to act with human compassion in all cases without regard to political stance or popularity contests. It is very possible that one reject the opinions of others and reject altogether the "right v left" garbage which is a media creation anyway, and allow the Lord in the Heart to guide us in our formulation of principles. This does not mean that one should just let things go without opinion, but what is does mean is that if one takes a stand on an issue, this does not mean that he has crawled in a box with a bunch of other things that go with it. Each issue stands alone, each issue is independant of each other.

 

So, I can hate the abortion industry while not wishing to hate a teenage girl who may have made a choice to abort. I can be for the death penalty in capital crime cases and still recognize that the judges are fools and that the system makes many innocent folks of both color and lesser financial status get murdered by the state, and that the state is heavily cursed for allowing such a perverted system. I can be pro-marajuana for any reason medical or otherwise while wishing that all coke freaks drop dead immediately. I can even boldly declare that the state of Israel is the most anti-semitic nation in the world for their systematic abuse and genocide done against the Palestinians while still recognizing that the religious philosophy of the Torah is valid and those practicing such should be afforded all protection by the civilized world.

 

Right v Left is a creation of the chaos and confusion of Kali Yuga, and governments that are divided by such discord are doomed to failure because of the certainty of ever non-cooperation.

 

Opinions are flowing today, later, yer surf ant, mahaksadasa

[Gauracandra]

Just a quick thought - the solution in my opinion is not moderation. There are some good ideas on the right and one or two on the left. Combining them wouldn't make the position moderate, but some sort of dynamic hybrid. The only problem is a certain law in politics which states "That which is not expressly right wing will over time become left wing". This is guaranteed to happen (have you ever seen the Republicans willing to dismantle social security? Never, they are cowards. Even though it is the single greatest drain on the development of wealth for the underclass). The culture slowly drifts towards loss of freedom, increased socialism (and eventual communism, don't doubt this for one second). Just because communism failed miserably every where it has ever been tried, don't think it has died. It has simply gone underground and poses under such nice sounding themes like "environmentalism" and the like. The key is to remember what ole Ben Franklin said (I think it was him): "He who would give up a little freedom for safety, deserves neither freedom nor safety".

 

Gauracandra

[Guest guest]

<h3><center>And whats wrong with being extremist? </center></h3>

 

<FONT SIZE="4">The term "extremism" defines exactly nothing. It is a term used to connote an issue no one dare denote. It is a term used by devotees of the cult of moral greyness to 'define' that which they fear the most--principled adherence to truth, morality, and ethics. It is a term used by political moderates to discredit constitutionalists who believe in unalienable individual rights exercised in rational self-interest, the liberty to exercise those rights, and capitalism, which makes possible the acquisition of property--the source of all unalienable rights.

</FONT></P>

 

<FONT SIZE="4">Funk and Wagnalls New Practical Standard Dictionary (1947) defines the word extreme thus: "Ex-treme adj. 1. Being of the highest degree, at best, worst, greatest, etc...." Extreme, then, is a measure of degree. When the word "extreme" is used by political and media smear artists, it is intended to mean an extreme of any degree regardless of its nature. This implication is inherently evil. It means that extreme morality and immorality are equally undesirable; extreme honesty and dishonesty are equally immoral, and extreme virtue and extreme depravity are equally evil.

</FONT></P>

 

<FONT SIZE="4">Defining oneself as a moderate is an admission of being a compromiser and an appeaser. Philosophically, what, then, is the implication of compromise between the truth and a lie? What is the implication of compromise between morality and immorality? What is the ethical implication of compromise between principled action and unprincipled action? The implications are advocacy of lies, immorality, and unprincipled action.

</FONT></P>

 

<FONT SIZE="4">Politically, what is the implication of compromise between unalienable individual rights and collectivism? What is the implication of compromise between liberty and slavery? What is the implication of compromise between capitalism and socialism? The answer is, the same result as the compromise between food and poison--death: the death of unalienable individual rights, the death of liberty, and the death of property. The implications are the advocacy of collectivism, slavery, and socialism.

</FONT></P>

 

<FONT SIZE="4">The term "extremism" is nothing other than a smear; a smear used by self-proclaimed moderates, who have no principles, to defile those who adhere to principled thought and action. It is a terror phrase intended to instill a sense of guilt and uncertainty in the irrational mob by reference to undefined and constantly fluctuating ideological package-deals. </FONT></P>

 

 

<FONT SIZE="5"><CENTER>Return to randOM aXiS</CENTER>

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Just went to your site Random and saw that you have the quote I gave at the bottom of the screen. I was surprised that I came pretty close in the wording

 

Gauracandra

 

PS Have you ever seen the most romantic movie in the world - Braveheart? Just remember "FREEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!"

 

[Guest guest]

<center></center>

 

<center><h1>FREEDOM!!!!!!!</h1></center>

 

---------

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety

deserve neither liberty nor safety." --- Benjamin Franklin

[Gauracandra]

AAAAAWWEEEEESSOMMMMMMMEEEE!!!!!....errr... I'm mean FFFFREEEEEEDDDDOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

 

Most people might not know it but Mel Gibson is actually one of the only true right wingers in Hollywood. Schwarzennegger is sort of fiscally conservative, socially liberal. But Mel even makes conservatives seem liberal. He is a very traditional Catholic with like 8 or 9 kids. He attends (as I understand) a separate Catholic church that still does all of their ceremonies in Latin. He is solidly pro-life, and has spoken out against the homosexual agenda in Hollywood. His father supposedly writes a right-wing Catholic newsletter decrying the changes made in Vatican II and other such things.

 

Gauracandra

[Guest guest]

JRdd on a vnn forum thread posted an incredible story about Mel. I'll search my archives when I return home to see if I can find it.

 

---------

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were

our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams 1776.

[kailasa]

>JRdd on a vnn forum

Forgive me, whether somebody will write the address of this forum?

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by kailasa:

>JRdd on a vnn forum

Forgive me, whether somebody will write the address of this forum?

The forum is offline, gaspadeen.

 

Where are you located in the Rodina? Petrograd? Moskva? I'll be visiting Petrograd next Orthodox Xmas.

 

[This message has been edited by rand0M aXiS (edited 08-04-2001).]

[Guest guest]

If you find Catholics interesting, you should check out the Jesuits! The Catholics, to their credit, are staunchly pro-life. Unfortunately, they are against the death penality, and have a taste for dead animals.

 

Other than that, their churches are wonderful places to chant rounds. Up here in the Inland Northwest there are no Krsna or Hindu temples. But I am always welcome in the big, magnificent Catholic Churches around here, some of which are over a hundred years old. The Fathers and Nuns never hassle me when I chant rounds in their Churches. They think it is the rosary, perhaps.

 

The whole feel, vibes, etcetra is very mystical with the stained glass, incense, murtis. I love hanging out with the Catholics.

[mahak]

Haribol. I have no problem in having very passionate stand on various issues, even to the extreme. I agree with BB's point on extremism to a degree, as long as the stance is based on fact and the person is not a kali yuga type who will not accept defeat regardless of the circumstance.

 

However, extremism has its place. My original comment did not take away from this passion, rather made effort to single out each issue as an individual one.

 

Im anti abortion extremist, but Im not that way with capital punishment. I firmly believe the crud should be washed off the street, but the streetwashers are not at all qualified and, in many cases, are even cruddier. So, if criteria for judgeship and jury membership included non-partisanship, compassion, and most of all, intelligence, then I would be more in favor of capital punishment. The way it stands now, many jurors and judges, as well as attorneys on both sides (prosecutor and defender), fully deserve the death penalty as well.

 

Jury? Pay them top dollar, if it is a loss to serve, then only losers will serve.

 

Im extremist on all my issues, some left, some right.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[talasiga]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I find Catholics interesting because I find them to have the only remaining elements of mystic Christianity.

I was discussing about Ramanuja with my wife (of Irish Catholic ancestry) and she was struck by the similarity between Ramanuja's epistemology and certain facets of Catholic epistemology.

_____________

 

"[Lord] why hast thou forsaken me?", (Jesus or Radha)?

_____________

 

Personally I dont use mala when chanting but the rosary that my wife's aunt got for her from Spain/Portugal made out of pressed rose petals is quite a temptation. I keep suggesting to her to leave the Buddhism and go back to her Catholic roots just to see that rosary honoured.

 

______________

 

But, Gauracandra, what about the orthodox denominations, dont you see the Christian Mysteries in them also?

 

lonely talasiga@hotmail.com

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 08-06-2001).]

[Gauracandra]

You know, I've heard that the rosary has 54 beads + a cross (similar to the Krsna bead on japa mala). Can anyone confirm this? It would be very interesting that this just so happened to be half 108. In the past I tried to get a Catholic co-worker of mine to get me a pair of authentic rosary beads. I just wanted to have them around.

 

As for the Orthodox Christian view, in all honesty I'm not real familiar with them. There is the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox Churches. I'm not real clear on their philosophies. In the U.S. I'm more familiar with the Catholic church and various Protestant churches. I don't see any of the mystery, mysticism, or grandeur in the Protestant faiths. They are good people, but I just don't see that quality.

 

And I don't count the faith healers and such as being what I consider mystic. I couldn't believe it, but there is this guy named Benny Hinn on tv, with huge stadiums full of people. He is such a complete scammer. The 'Amazing Randy' exposed him a few years back. Anyways, no need to go into it. But these guys are just clowns who make a spectacle out of themselves.

 

Gauracandra

[talasiga]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

You know, I've heard that the rosary has 54 beads + a cross (similar to the Krsna bead on japa mala). Can anyone confirm this? It would be very interesting that this just so happened to be half 108.

Yes thats right 54 beads within the mala but with a further large bead (or, sometimes, an "iconic button") for the Fatima prayer and also a further 5 on the extended strand for the Crucifix. My spouse tells me that these "extras" are for the preliminary prayers before the recitation of each round of 54.

 

For more info see www.theholyrosary.org

 

______________

 

Just like 108 which numerologically arrives at 9, the Catholics have this thing about 9 also, like there is the Novena - mass each day for 9 days as a particular practice - and there is also the 54 (5+4=9), as already mentioned and a 54 day rosary practice.

 

But getting back to the topic of left vs right, the Catholic chaplet [japa mala practice] uses both the left and right hands as if to indicate unity in diversity - just like the Hindu greeting "namaskar" two hands joined together or MuraliManohar playing the flute with BOTH HANDS

 

heathen talasiga@hotmail.com

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 08-07-2001).]

[Gauracandra]

One devotee told me that there is a branch of Catholicism (perhaps Franciscans I'm not sure) that actually cultivates the Tulasi plant. They call it the 'Holy Basil' if I remember correctly. From what I remember one lady saint, or such, brought it over from 'the east' and since then these monks still cultivate this sacred plant in their gardens. Anyone else ever hear of this? Just like to get confirmation on these sort of things.

 

BTW, thanks for the info on the rosary.

 

Gauracandra

[atma]

I just saw again after a long time, Braveheart, with a friend that never saw it before, both of us were crying like anything, but I'm writing here because I remembered somebody posted something about it some time ago and I came upon the holy basil question. My Greek friend told me that greeks don't cook with basil like italians because basil is considered 'holy'. They use it por purification and rituals in the churches and in their houses. Interesting.

 

I love Braveheart.

[mark]

I'm just wondering if that's a gun you're holding in your picture. If so, why?

[Guest guest]

It looks like a 'guitar' to me!

[tsaneladi]

Let us not forget that the worlds largest and longest genocide is the one perpetuated by the United States governemnt against the American Indians. More have died that all of Hitlers and Stalins attrocities combined...

 

Land of the free...if your white

[Guest guest]

 

actually over 90 percent of the native american population died in the first century

of european presence.

This was due to the fact that the europeans carried many new diseases with them to the americas,and the natives had no naturally developed immunity.

 

Now the native americans as a group are among the wealthiest and poorest of people in the u.s.

 

they own and operate countless casinos

generating tremendous profit for some,while others live in poverty.

 

they need to look at their own hearts before pointing fingers at others.

 

[tsaneladi]

You would be well advised to check actual facts before submitting speculation in the light of reality. Most Indians do not have casinos or casino profits. I am a Cherokee tribal member. We are the second largest tribe in the US with over 200,000 members. We are not allowed to have actual casinos in Oklahoma although we operate several slot palaces.

 

The Cherokee benefit little from these proceeds and in fact they do not make up for the loss of program funds that have been the result of the recent Administration (Bush) cuts.

 

Additionally, I have been involved for over 20 years in Indian politics and am a curent and ongoing member of a number of Tribal organizations. For the most part we are all in the same boat. Less than 3% percent of the U.S. tribes have large grossing casino operations. Less than 20 % have any at all.

few are making enbnough to overcome the loss of funds owed us by the US government from treaties and bills going back over 150 years. The current administration professes they have "lost" some of the accounting and dont have a clue of how to pay us the over 50 billion that is owed.

 

As far as genocide goes, the diseases were but a fraction of the process that included forced removal, scalp hunting for profit, rape of Indian children at boarding schools (ask my grandmother about that one) and numerous other acts of murder committed and approved by the US government.

 

You would do well to look in YOUR heart and assess why you speak so much of that you know so little

[Guest guest]

" Let us not forget that the worlds largest and longest genocide is the one perpetuated by the United States governemnt against the American Indians. More have died that all of Hitlers and Stalins attrocities combined..."

 

 

Oh please!!! Hitler killed 6 million, Stalin 20 million. So you are saying America killed more than 26 million?!?!

 

I think you better go back to school and study arithmetic. And while you are at it, lay off the firewater.

[damir2002]

please,do not talk abouth something you dont

know,krisna is everywhere.

[damir2002]

krisna talk when you talk

[tsaneladi]

The United States and it Euro colonial forerunners killed FAR more than Hitler over the 500 years of genocide it has perpetuated on the Indians. The facts are clearly documented. The BIA report of Indian health itslef suggest a figure over 1 1/2 times the Hitler massacre.

More of concern however is the crude, arrogant and sophmoric gibberish exhibited here by supposed KC devotees.

 

How can you claim to have read or understood anything in Bhagavad Gita and make remarks like that. Sad to be sure.

And the firewater crack is just plain racist. I wont honor such rascalry with a response