Vaisnava Economic Development

[Gauracandra]

I wanted to get your opinions on how we can develop the economic base of our greater Vaisnava society. In my opinion this is a crucial step in helping position Krsna Consciousness for long-term growth. With a solid economic base and community development, the preachers of our society can focus in on preaching rather than worrying about how to pay this months rent.

 

To me the solution is principally one of focus. The example I always like to use is that of a magnifying glass. Take an 8 inch magnifying glass and watch the energy of the sun pass through it. Nothing happens. Now take a 4 inch magnifying glass, but focus the energy on one single spot. It’s a smaller tool, but because the energy is focused on one spot, you can start a blazing fire.

 

So how can we focus our combined economic energies to support our community? There are a few approaches we could take, but I think the simplest would be to develop some form of investment pool, trust, or mutual fund. Think of this in purely arithmetic terms for a moment. How difficult is it to raise $1 million dollars? In my opinion it isn’t that difficult, if we had the right leadership. If you had 1,000 devotees across the United States give $1000, immediately you would have $1million. Now I know what you are saying – How many devotees will give $1000? Many devotees, in my opinion, tend to be a little tight with the funds. But this money would NOT be a donation to Iskcon. It would be their own money. It would simply be pooled with other devotee’s money for capital formation. $1000 is about $2.75 per day set aside as an investment. Or maybe get 2000 devotees to invest $500 per year. The numbers come out the same.

 

The key though is that this creates a large sum of capital which can be focused towards goals that benefit both the investors and the Vaisnava community. Now I mentioned this would require the right leadership. This can’t be some fly-by-night operation. If people are going to consistently invest in this pool it would have to have some legitimacy. You would need to get real businessmen like Ambarish Prabhu or others to head it up.

 

I’ll give you a few instances of why I think this is so important.

 

Several years ago I visited the Iskcon, Phoenix temple. The manager there does a real nice job and has a very nice temple. The temple itself is located off the side of a freeway right next to an off ramp. When I visited it maybe 5 years back, the temple was surrounded by acres and acres of undeveloped land (it is just outside the city). There was a for sale sign on this land. At the time I actually thought “Wouldn’t it be great if we could buy this land? Right on the corner we could build a hotel that would bring in money for devotees and could be used for life membership purposes.” Well I visited the temple again about 1 year ago, and guess what? Sure enough some smart entrepreneur has built a beautiful hotel right on the corner in front of the temple. The freeway is the only one connecting Phoenix to Tucson and is traveled all the time. In addition, all the surrounding land is now in a real estate boom. On every corner of the intersection new apartment complexes are being built. The Arizona home market is booming. In my opinion, hotels would be a good business for devotees to get into. They could generate money as an investment, and could be used to provide excellent accommodations to our life members.

 

Another instance occurred maybe 1 year back. I was visiting the Berkeley temple and noticed that a home DIRECTLY in front of the temple was for sale. The Berkeley temple is really nice, but the only problem with it is that there is no community there. Devotees travel from all across the Bay Area to see the deities on Sunday. Preaching would be amazing, especially in Berkeley of all places, if we had a community there. So I saw this house for sale and thought “Why doesn’t a devotee buy this house?” If as devotees we created a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) we could have pooled our money and easily bought the home. Real estate prices in the Bay Area will only continue to go up. In the mean time, the home would be rented out to others. In this way, over a period of time, we could carve out some space from which to build a Vaisnava community. The temple has tried in the past to open a Vegetarian restaurant. The only thing that has stopped them consistently has been the neighbors’ complaints. If we created a Vaisnava community we could support the restaurant business as well.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to share these ideas. I would be curious of any ideas for businesses that would be both an investment and have residual positive effects for the wider Vaisnava community.

 

Gauracandra

[Guest guest]

Regarding the Berkeley temple:

 

You have to change management before you have a community there.

 

Srila Prabhupada may have built a house the whole world can live in, but then Harivilas came along and threw them all out.

 

Regarding investment capitol: After donating thousands and thousands of dollars already to ISKCON, and then being thrown out of the society, do you think they will be foolish enough to give one paise?

 

Nice idea for utopia. Better to just get ones own act together, AND NOT DEPEND ON OTHERS. Thay way you won't become disenchanted or disappointed.

[Gauracandra]

Which is precisely why we should do it as individuals. Everyone is sitting around saying "When is Iskcon going to do this or that? yada yada yada" Since when was "Iskcon" supposed to do everything, while the rest of us sit back and complain? Varnashram is made up of the greater society. With the internet now thousands of devotees can unite together in a relatively easy fashion. Again my idea is that this would be separate from any religious institution. It would be managed by professional businessmen, with the goal of making money. No charity here for anyone.

 

Gauracandra

[Guest guest]

Good luck finding a half-dozen individuals to cooperate.

[amanpeter]

Sorry to say, but the internet and these forums in particular remind me somewhat of my previous addiction to marihuana. First thing in the morning and last at night. Mentally stimulating talk that keeps spinning around in my mind with no apparent end in sight. Just like so much smoke and pipe dreams while lounging about having supposedly deep meaningful discussions. I still know initiated Srila Prabhupada devotees who continue to dream, but their lives most often depend on others' money, often obtained through outright deception. I'm afraid I have to agree with BB and continue to beat down my own unrealistic idealism with overdoses of cynicism. A dreamer swamped in broken dreams...

[Ajay Shah]

What do you hope to accomplish with 'Vaisnava Economic Development'?

 

There already millions of Vaisnava families in the vaisya section of varnaashrama-dharma.

[Gauracandra]

Another idea I have considered is the development of a Vaisnava Business Association. This would be comprised of businessmen and women from across the Vaisnava spectrum who could exchange ideas, perhaps pool their resources etc... The U.S. government has the Small Business Administration. As one of its programs they will take retired businessment to help mentor people who wish to start up new businesses. This would be one possible function for the VBA. Just another idea.

 

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

Another point to consider is location of temple communities. For the sake of preaching most temples are located in cities. However, due to the cost of real estate and housing in cities it is a little difficult to carve out a community setting. Perhaps it would be useful to purchase land just outside the city so that we could have some growing room. With plenty of space we could actually hire devotee contractors to build housing units for householders. This way we create some economic employment for devotees as well. Eventually, with population growth, the city will expand outwards, and surround the devotee community (that might take 10-20 years).

 

Gauracandra

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

Good luck finding a half-dozen individuals to cooperate.

BB, I totally agree with you on this one also.

 

Gauracandra, the real issue here is trust. You're talking to some here that have invested more than money in the dream of a spiritual community where devotion to God and service to each other is the reality. Economic blessings may follow or not. It's not as if you build an economic base and bhakti follows.

Your plan seems to me to be a spinoff from the expansionist mentality of bygone iskcon. People have to know each other, actually care for each other, before they can ever agree to live and work together 'in the spirit of devotion'. Good luck, though.

 

 

 

[JRdd]

To me it seems more feasible to reduce the number of devotees and increase the payments than the other way around, but I may be wrong. Say, 500 devotees to put in two thousand each. Or 250 to put in...oh but four thousand is starting to sound steep to me. Would it all have to be done at once? You mentioned something about monthly.

 

What seems harder than the money, to me, is getting enough devotees together on it. Like ten devotees seems a stretch. But I'd be one of them, if possible.

 

Any rich men out there?

[JRdd]

But it is treu that trust has to be there. Seems like it has to develop organically, naturally. But that takes time. Hmmm....

[Maitreya]

Trust comes later I would say.It must be earned through personal interactions.Until then get it in writing.

 

 

Like that old saying "Trust in Allah but tie up your camel".

 

[JRdd]

That makes real good sense. How can trust develop when everyone is scattered anyway?

 

There's nothing wrong with tying up your hippopotamus.

 

Time is of the essence.

 

We're beginning to sound a little like Talasiga.

[Maitreya]

Originally posted by JRdd:

That makes real good sense. How can trust develop when everyone is scattered anyway?

 

There's nothing wrong with tying up your hippopotamus.

 

Time is of the essence.

 

We're beginning to sound a little like Talasiga.

Hippopotamus tying

Can be trying

But knot trying

Leaves scattered and crying

 

 

[amanpeter]

I saw a dog today running with it's owner. what amazed me is that the dog ran forward with it's head turned fully back towards it's owner, never checking where it was going at full tilt! That's what I call TRUST! Something I don't even have in God, let alone other humans. Of course, if I was able to see God face-to-face, and so close, focusing as intently as that dog...

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 08-19-2001).]

[talasiga]

Originally posted by amanpeter:

I'm afraid I have to agree with BB and continue to beat down my own unrealistic idealism with overdoses of cynicism. A dreamer swamped in broken dreams...

 

Cher Amanpeter,

 

There are no broken dreams

Only broken remembrance

 

 

.

.

 

broken talasiga@hotmail.com

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 08-19-2001).]

[talasiga]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Another idea I have considered is the development of a Vaisnava Business Association.

Ahrey Mere Jaan!

 

Find me two real Vaishnavas

You will have found true Company

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Oh absolutely there must be trust. I'm not actually one of the old expansionist kind of people. I believe in consolidation (though many might not like that). One problem I have felt is that as devotees we are scattered all over the country. A few here, a few there. Alachua actually has a lot of devotees in one location. The reason consolidation is good is because you do start to develop a society. Think of it like a piece of cloth (the fabric of society). If the weaving is spread out, then the fabric will be larger, but very weak. But suppose you made a smaller piece of fabric, but it was tightly weaved, then you can create a strong piece of cloth. The first principle must be to create strong families and networks of devotees. The Mormons have this down well. In a very real sense, most Mormons are all related to one another. They all moved to Utah (1 place, not many). And after 150 years, with each family having many children, everyone started to become family. Then they started to make expansion outwards from their central position. They were in a position of strength to move forward. And because they were all family, they were much more united. We need to create that sense of family to create unity. Then people will be much more likely to move forward together.

 

Gauracandra

[Dr Jayanth G Paraki]

Vaisnava economic development is enabled by adopting a holistic paradigm of health, education and business activities. The end point of any economic activity should be empowerment.

 

The primary needs of our rural population are literacy, health care and adequate employment with opportunities for realization of the human potential. The idea is to train rural youth, adult men and women in empowerment and team functioning, initiate preventive health through the holistic approach and create opportunities for employment. This is to be achieved through a sustained urban- rural cooperative effort. The broad objectives are to create a protocol for holistic health and nutrition package for primary school children, establish a network and partnership between urban organizations and NGO's and corporate sector for rural development, create a society of rural youth for empowerment and employment.

 

The practical approach should be Innovative, reduce poverty and be sustainable. A project of this nature has been designed for a rural community near Bangalore, South India. The success of a project is dependent on the quality of management. We have employed Deming's Total Quality Management in planning and designing of the systems and processes. A PSO approach will be employed for execution of this project. The project aims to serve as a catalyst to other institutions, organizations and individuals to undertake major projects in other geographical areas.

 

For details email me at paraki@vsnl.com

 

Dr Jayanth G Paraki

 

------------------

 

[Gauracandra]

Please do share more information on this. I am particularly interested in the idea of uniting the rural and urban sectors. Very often the rural poor go to the cities to find jobs. However, because so many flood into the city, it negates the benefit because then employers can exploit the flood of cheap labor. In such cases the rural poor in fact would have been better off staying in the countryside. I'd be interested in ideas that bring economic development to these areas. Please do share.

 

Gauracandra

[amanpeter]

There is a program here in downtown Toronto called Foodshare that delivers boxes of fresh produce weekly to contracted customers. Monies collected go to the farmers prior to growing season so their crops can be planned and financial security provided from the start. All food is organic and in accordance with the customers' dietary preferences as far as possible. There is more of this or less of that, depending on the season. All is non-profit and as such some government and/or private charity help is available. Should any wish to make further inquiries, I could post the address for the group. They also give cooking classes and help establishing community gardens, I believe.

[Gauracandra]

Just one thing your post reminded me of Valaya. Maybe I'm the only one who has ever experienced this - but I find that farmers markets always have the best produce and at much cheaper rates than the stores. The produce is fresh, ripe, and cheap. I've never figured out this anomally since you'd think big chain stores could buy in bulk, and pass the savings on to the consumer. Never seems to happen though. I love going to farmers markets for these reasons.

 

Gauracandra

[Dr Jayanth G Paraki]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Please do share more information on this. I am particularly interested in the idea of uniting the rural and urban sectors. Very often the rural poor go to the cities to find jobs. However, because so many flood into the city, it negates the benefit because then employers can exploit the flood of cheap labor. In such cases the rural poor in fact would have been better off staying in the countryside. I'd be interested in ideas that bring economic development to these areas. Please do share.

 

Gauracandra

 

Dear friend,

Can you provide an e-mail address where i can send the detailed project?

Look forward to you reply.

Dr Paraki

 

[Gauracandra]

Sure. My email address is Gauracandra@Indiadivine.com. Thanks again.

 

Gauracandra

[Vaisnava dasa]

Dear Gauracandra:

 

I was engaged for a few years as an officer in an economic development not-for-profit organization.

 

What would immediately be helpful would be to compile a list of Vaisnava businesses -- a directory.

 

Add to that your contact information and then freely distribute your business directory with much relevant information about the businesses and how to contact you for more information regarding the idea of Vaisnava economic development.

 

This can be done immediately without waiting for anyone. This would be a great service to the Vaisnava community.

 

Those businesses listed in your directory can also agree to become a member of such a Vaisnava Business Association. The directory becomes an important tool in the marketing of the businesses, as well as an opportunity for the Vaisnavas to have a market.

 

Vaisnava dasa

 

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I wanted to get your opinions on how we can develop the economic base of our greater Vaisnava society. In my opinion this is a crucial step in helping position Krsna Consciousness for long-term growth. With a solid economic base and community development, the preachers of our society can focus in on preaching rather than worrying about how to pay this months rent.

 

To me the solution is principally one of focus. The example I always like to use is that of a magnifying glass. Take an 8 inch magnifying glass and watch the energy of the sun pass through it. Nothing happens. Now take a 4 inch magnifying glass, but focus the energy on one single spot. It’s a smaller tool, but because the energy is focused on one spot, you can start a blazing fire.

 

So how can we focus our combined economic energies to support our community? There are a few approaches we could take, but I think the simplest would be to develop some form of investment pool, trust, or mutual fund. Think of this in purely arithmetic terms for a moment. How difficult is it to raise $1 million dollars? In my opinion it isn’t that difficult, if we had the right leadership. If you had 1,000 devotees across the United States give $1000, immediately you would have $1million. Now I know what you are saying – How many devotees will give $1000? Many devotees, in my opinion, tend to be a little tight with the funds. But this money would NOT be a donation to Iskcon. It would be their own money. It would simply be pooled with other devotee’s money for capital formation. $1000 is about $2.75 per day set aside as an investment. Or maybe get 2000 devotees to invest $500 per year. The numbers come out the same.

 

The key though is that this creates a large sum of capital which can be focused towards goals that benefit both the investors and the Vaisnava community. Now I mentioned this would require the right leadership. This can’t be some fly-by-night operation. If people are going to consistently invest in this pool it would have to have some legitimacy. You would need to get real businessmen like Ambarish Prabhu or others to head it up.

 

I’ll give you a few instances of why I think this is so important.

 

Several years ago I visited the Iskcon, Phoenix temple. The manager there does a real nice job and has a very nice temple. The temple itself is located off the side of a freeway right next to an off ramp. When I visited it maybe 5 years back, the temple was surrounded by acres and acres of undeveloped land (it is just outside the city). There was a for sale sign on this land. At the time I actually thought “Wouldn’t it be great if we could buy this land? Right on the corner we could build a hotel that would bring in money for devotees and could be used for life membership purposes.” Well I visited the temple again about 1 year ago, and guess what? Sure enough some smart entrepreneur has built a beautiful hotel right on the corner in front of the temple. The freeway is the only one connecting Phoenix to Tucson and is traveled all the time. In addition, all the surrounding land is now in a real estate boom. On every corner of the intersection new apartment complexes are being built. The Arizona home market is booming. In my opinion, hotels would be a good business for devotees to get into. They could generate money as an investment, and could be used to provide excellent accommodations to our life members.

 

Another instance occurred maybe 1 year back. I was visiting the Berkeley temple and noticed that a home DIRECTLY in front of the temple was for sale. The Berkeley temple is really nice, but the only problem with it is that there is no community there. Devotees travel from all across the Bay Area to see the deities on Sunday. Preaching would be amazing, especially in Berkeley of all places, if we had a community there. So I saw this house for sale and thought “Why doesn’t a devotee buy this house?” If as devotees we created a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) we could have pooled our money and easily bought the home. Real estate prices in the Bay Area will only continue to go up. In the mean time, the home would be rented out to others. In this way, over a period of time, we could carve out some space from which to build a Vaisnava community. The temple has tried in the past to open a Vegetarian restaurant. The only thing that has stopped them consistently has been the neighbors’ complaints. If we created a Vaisnava community we could support the restaurant business as well.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to share these ideas. I would be curious of any ideas for businesses that would be both an investment and have residual positive effects for the wider Vaisnava community.

 

Gauracandra