Innovation and its limits in Gaudiya Vaishnavism

[Krishnananda dasa]

I'd like to begin a discussion of innovation, and its appropriate limits, in Gaudiya Vaishnavism. In the last 30 years, I have come to appreciate that many deviations and misunderstandings come from not being aware of our sampradaya's history... or not coming to terms with its implications.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur innovated HUGELY in his writings. He opened up Vaishnava thought to the methods and rubrics of Western scholarly analysis. See Shukavak Dasa's "Hindu Encounter With Modernity" for further documentation on this point.

 

The Thakur had two sons. One, Lalita Prasad, said "No further innovation."

 

The other, Bimala Prasad, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, made several major adjustments:

1) He introduced new mantras (e.g. the brahma-gayatri, previously not used by Gaudiyas)

2) He introduced tridandi-sannyasa, previously not used by the Gaudiyas

3) He and his followers wore the brahmana thread, which his father and previous Gaudiyas did not.

 

I could go on: his early experiments (as you can confirm via Paramadvaiti Swami are documented in the earliest sources) included having his sannyasis wear green, then black, before settling on saffron. And some of the "scriptures" he used, such as the one containing the 108 sannyasa names, were "forged" (his supporters would say "inspired") and did not previously exist before he and his Sanskritist composed them.

 

In any case, he left a legacy after making his own changes. Most of his followers then said "No further changes."

 

But one, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, made further changes. He gave brahma-gayatri to women, which his guru had never done. He initiated people he knew to be homosexuals (remember, he roomed with Kirtanananda in the earliest days, and was plainly aware of his disciple's tendencies). He allowed women to lead classes and kirtans, and even to have a recording of a woman's voice heard in every ISKCON temple every morning when the deities were greeted. He introduced daily guru-puja, unprecedented before his implementation. He used novel Tulasi prayers, and made many changes regarding sadacara. Some would even say that he changed the philosophy regarding the origin of the jiva, though this is a controversial point.

 

In any case, he made many changes, and after he left most of his disciples said "No further innovations."

 

But a few have tried to innovate:

 

Siddhasvarupa abandoned sannyasa and public use of the maha-mantra

 

Kirtanananda tried to "Christianize" the philosophy

 

Hansadutta and others tried to "ritvikize" the philosophy

 

Though they have been villified for doing so, the above three devotees actually innovated LESS than their three predecessor-acharyas.

 

I wonder whether we can get an intelligent and non-offensive thread going about the role of innovation in the disciplic line descending from Bhaktivinode? What are the limits of innovation, and how can we distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable innovation without resorting to ad hominem or circular arguments?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

In any case, he made many changes, and after he left most of his disciples said "No further innovations."

Actually it was Srila Prabhupada himself who said, "Do not change anything". His disciples should follow his direct instructions instead of pretending they are liberate acharyas. Just look at the yugoslavia guy on the other thread. Do we need more of such people spoiling Srila Prabhupada's movement?

 

[amanpeter]

Originally posted by Krishnananda dasa:

I'd like to begin a discussion of innovation, and its appropriate limits, in Gaudiya Vaishnavism. In the last 30 years, I have come to appreciate that many deviations and misunderstandings come from not being aware of our sampradaya's history... or not coming to terms with its implications.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur innovated HUGELY in his writings. He opened up Vaishnava thought to the methods and rubrics of Western scholarly analysis. See Shukavak Dasa's "Hindu Encounter With Modernity" for further documentation on this point.

 

The Thakur had two sons. One, Lalita Prasad, said "No further innovation."

 

The other, Bimala Prasad, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, made several major adjustments:

1) He introduced new mantras (e.g. the brahma-gayatri, previously not used by Gaudiyas)

2) He introduced tridandi-sannyasa, previously not used by the Gaudiyas

3) He and his followers wore the brahmana thread, which his father and previous Gaudiyas did not.

 

I could go on: his early experiments (as you can confirm via Paramadvaiti Swami are documented in the earliest sources) included having his sannyasis wear green, then black, before settling on saffron. And some of the "scriptures" he used, such as the one containing the 108 sannyasa names, were "forged" (his supporters would say "inspired") and did not previously exist before he and his Sanskritist composed them.

 

In any case, he left a legacy after making his own changes. Most of his followers then said "No further changes."

 

But one, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, made further changes. He gave brahma-gayatri to women, which his guru had never done. He initiated people he knew to be homosexuals (remember, he roomed with Kirtanananda in the earliest days, and was plainly aware of his disciple's tendencies). He allowed women to lead classes and kirtans, and even to have a recording of a woman's voice heard in every ISKCON temple every morning when the deities were greeted. He introduced daily guru-puja, unprecedented before his implementation. He used novel Tulasi prayers, and made many changes regarding sadacara. Some would even say that he changed the philosophy regarding the origin of the jiva, though this is a controversial point.

 

In any case, he made many changes, and after he left most of his disciples said "No further innovations."

 

But a few have tried to innovate:

 

Siddhasvarupa abandoned sannyasa and public use of the maha-mantra

 

Kirtanananda tried to "Christianize" the philosophy

 

Hansadutta and others tried to "ritvikize" the philosophy

 

Though they have been villified for doing so, the above three devotees actually innovated LESS than their three predecessor-acharyas.

 

I wonder whether we can get an intelligent and non-offensive thread going about the role of innovation in the disciplic line descending from Bhaktivinode? What are the limits of innovation, and how can we distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable innovation without resorting to ad hominem or circular arguments?

 

Thank you, prabhu, for explaining this so well. It does appear that those who made innovative changes were instrumental in spreading Lord Caitanya's movement further, but some may ask, "At what expense?"

 

Personally, I believe that all are somehow contributing, although their/our involvement may sometimes seem negative due to our inability to appreciate the whole picture.

 

For instance, AC electricity switches back and forth between positive and negative poles, which enables it to act in ways that DC electricity cannot. Does this make any sense?

 

Perhaps those who are staunchly following their guru maharaja without alterations are actually providing the strong foundation and power that enables further exploratory attempts by others.

 

On the other hand, jndas is perfectly clear about what Srila Prabhupada ordered in this regard. It's not difficult to understand, in light of all that has happened, why he and so many others feel as they do.

 

I would ask only that we keep an open heart, if not a completely open mind (don't want what's left of our brains falling out!), for who knows what the future may hold? Devotees never cease to amaze me, whether oldtimers or newly attracted to the movement. The more I come to know each one, the more fascinating you all become.

 

I may not always be able to handle the heat and thus be forced to occasionally leave the kitchen, but I have a deep feeling/faith that the best of this feast is yet to come!!! Affectionately, Peter/valaya

 

 

 

------------------

amanpeter@hotmail.com

[Maitreya]

One thing to consider is; is the impetus for adjustment coming from the Lord in the Heart or the mind.

 

Hare Krishna

[Maitreya]

This topic is really close to the heart of the two threads on homosexuality which are at about ten pages.

 

It was at the bottom of the page and about to slip out of sight.I think it is very important and thank Krishnacandra for raising it.

 

What is an innovation or adjustment, and what is a deviation?How are the differences to be recognized?

[Guest guest]

BV is still trying to change the teachings to accept pot smoking and acid dropping as spiritual.

[stonehearted]

 

Originally posted by Maitreya:

Letter to: Yadunandana

That is the trouble with you westerners, always changing. No changes should be made without first consulting with my GBC representative.

 

I hope you'll forgive my wariness about consulting with the GBC.

[Guest guest]

GBC was disbanded shortly after that letter.

 

Current GBC is criminal enterprise that will suffer RICO penalities according to USC 2.1.

[suryaz]

I am always bewildered as to why Prabhupada gave so much power to the GBC (who always wanted to "change" things). Or to his “authorised persons” (whom he knew chane things)

 

Why did he include in his society this wobbly system of management?

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 09-14-2001).]

[Maitreya]

Originally posted by stonehearted:

 

 

This may be a great example from a couple of angles.We see how Srila Prabhupada was against whimsical changes yet he left room for some change,but only after consulting his representitives, who at that time was the GBC.The essential part being representitive and not GBC.

 

Now the statement holds when we cross out the GBC part, and leave it as representitive.Not that GBC can't also represent, but are they?

 

And again at what point do the type of changes expose one as not being the representitive of His Divine Grace but a deviant instead?

 

 

[JRdd]

Hmm, yes, it seems that only AFTER the results of the experiments come out--when the havoc has already been wreaked--do we get to know? so how do we avert this disasters--I mean experiments? How do we know what is risky experimentation and what is valid innovation?

 

JR

[amanpeter]

Originally posted by JRdd:

Hmm, yes, it seems that only AFTER the results of the experiments come out--when the havoc has already been wreaked--do we get to know? so how do we avert this disasters--I mean experiments? How do we know what is risky experimentation and what is valid innovation?

 

JR

Try it on yourself?

 

 

[Citta]

quote:

How do we know what is risky experimentation and what is valid innovation?

----------------

 

True innovation is the prerogative of realized souls. If we look at the changes made in the Gaudiya tradition that worked, and we look at who made those changes, we will no doubt see that the adhikara required for true innovation is great. Mahatmas like Bhaktivinoda Thakura and BSST don't come along every day, and when they do, they often shake the faith of those who can't recognize the essence of the teachings. Thus real innovation is often not recognized as such by those whose sraddha is tender.

 

Time tells all, and we should "judge by the fruits." Some experiments work and some don't. It is unrealistic to think that the external and nonessential aspects of any traditon will not change over time. Prabhupada said "Do not change," but we see from his actions that he was changing things constantly, adjusting to new information and the increasing understanding of his disciples. He also said "I am simply repeating the words of my spiritual master." He was, yes, but in spirit, not in form. And If we are to follow the guru-parampara in spirit and not merely literally, then our first duty is to love Krsna. Once we do that, if details pertaining to preaching need to be changed, we will know how and to what extent to do so. Again, it all rests on adhikara. If we don't have it, we shouldn't change anything. But we should realize that there are those who do have it, and are qualified to make valid innovations. With sadhu-sanga, in time we may learn how to recognize an innovator from a deviator.

 

-Citta Hari dasa

[stonehearted]

 

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

GBC was disbanded shortly after that letter.

 

 

Actually, the GBC was suspended in the fall/winter of '72, right? I'm not sure of many things that happened in '75. My dealings with Hawaii's new GBC caused my wife and me to move from Honolulu to the Big Island, so we were (thankfully) rather isolated.

[JRdd]

Originally posted by amanpeter:

Try it on yourself?

 

 

Oooo prabhu. I have! Too much! I'm just trying to grab onto the rope of a more solid ship than this rickety little unreliable boat I've put myself on.

And I want to make sure that big ship remains solid! (or undergoes repairs as the case may, er, seems to be)

 

JR

 

[stonehearted]

 

Originally posted by JRdd:

Oooo prabhu. I have! Too much! I'm just trying to grab onto the rope of a more solid ship than this rickety little unreliable boat I've put myself on.

And I want to make sure that big ship remains solid! (or undergoes repairs as the case may, er, seems to be)

 

Jayaradhe, you're a better soul than I. I've done what little I can for many years. Time now for a breather. The trick is to find (or make!) good company.

[JRdd]

Originally posted by stonehearted:

 

And not an easy trick for one who lives alone in the sticks. (I have all these excuses) The way it is with me, I am hoping all my suffering in separation will count for something in Mr Merciful's beautiful dark Eyes, as I don't have much else to ride Home on.

 

Jayaradhe

 

 

[stonehearted]

 

Originally posted by JRdd:

And not an easy trick for one who lives alone in the sticks. (I have all these excuses) The way it is with me, I am hoping all my suffering in separation will count for something in Mr Merciful's beautiful dark Eyes, as I don't have much else to ride Home on.

 

A French devotee whose name I can't remember at the moment made a nice point in a class he gave in Honolulu in the early '80s. (Boy, if one of my students wrote that sentence, I'd sure ask him or her to work on it some more.) Oh--Adishekhar was his name. He pointed out that Lord Chaitanya is a person, and His heart is very soft. That means that He'll always remember anything we have done for Him.

 

And that reminds me of another story (what's this thread again?): As Srila Prabhupada's was leaving after a visit to Honolulu in May of '74, a few of us say in the terminal with him, while most of the devotees stayed out on he sidewalk and kept a kirtan going. While Satsvarupa Maharaj was reading ISKCON-related newspaper clippings, Srila Prabhupada interrupted him: "I hear Aniruddha is here in Hawaii, but he has not come to see me. Do you know?" (I don't think he would mind my using his name, since I've heard he also tells this story.)

 

One devotee volunteered that Aniruddha was outside with the kirtan party. Prabhupada: "He may come inside; there is no difficulty."

 

thew devotee scampered out to retrieve Aniruddha, but returned empty-handed.

Prabhupada: "No, you don't understand. He may come inside; there is NO difficulty!"

 

This time the devotee ran out, and Aniruddha, who apparently wasn't strong at the time, came in wearing cut-off jeans, a T-shirt, and a stud in his left ear. He folded his hands and offered pranams to Srila Prabhupada.

 

"So, Aniruddha, how are you?"

 

Aniruddha blushed and replied, "Actually, Srila Prabhupada, not so good."

 

After Srila Prabhupada insisted that Aniruddha sit on the seat next to him (the rest of us were sitting on the floor at Srila Prabhupada's feet), they exchanged small talk for a minute or two. Then Srila Prabhupada turned to us and said, In Los Angeles temple, he is the beginning."

 

The difference between Srila Prabhupada's vision (much as Raghunath Bhatta Goswami's) and ours was clear: what really mattered was that this devotee had done some service for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's sankirtan movement. Everything else was temporary, therefore less important, less intersting.

[Maitreya]

Reminds me of one of my favorite Prabhupada conversations.When Gaurasundar visted him in Vrindaban.You can just feel how thick the love Srila Prabhupada has for his son and how pleased he was that Gaurasundar was reengizing his practice of Krishna consciousness.

 

Remember that "stonehearted".Must bring tears.

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

Reminds me of one of my favorite Prabhupada conversations.When Gaurasundar visted him in Vrindaban.You can just feel how thick the love Srila Prabhupada has for his son and how pleased he was that Gaurasundar was reengizing his practice of Krishna consciousness.

 

Remember that "stonehearted".Must bring tears.

Yeah--Goursundar and Madhudvisa, as well. Srila Prabhupada never stopped expressing his gratitude for the service Goursunda and Govinda dasi renedered when he was recovering in '67. We know how to find Madhudvisa (just get a kirtan going). If only we could find Goursundar again.

 

Hah! You think you can make a stone cry? (sniff!)

 

[Maitreya]

I was thinking you are Gaursundar.

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

I was thinking you are Gaursundar.

Whoa! I didn't see that one coming. Nope--when Srila Prabhupada came to Hawaii in '74, it was largely because of Goursundar's leaving. And, hey, buddy--if you had gotten into it with Goursundar on the other thread, Lord have mercy on your soul! He's no lightweight, as I am.

 

Now, before I go home and have dinner (shouldn't you be getting some rest soon?), let me confide that I thought you were Maitreya who's from San Diego. How off am I? And if I'm not, can you see behind my mask now? (What was this thread?)

 

[Maitreya]

Sorry.I am not that Maitreya.The devil just sent me to sully his name.

 

I an not initiated and just took the name Maitreya Christian because I wanted to, and it reminded me of Krishna devotees.

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

Sorry.I am not that Maitreya.The devil just sent me to sully his name.

 

I an not initiated and just took the name Maitreya Christian because I wanted to, and it reminded me of Krishna devotees.

Boy, aren't our faces red?!?

 

Well, good night, and over and out. You're going to India soon? Have a great trip.

 

 

 

[JRdd]

Wow who needs innovations when there are such stories to dive in to? stories won me from the very very start, and stories still win me. I got my first stories, ot the Rasa Dance and Putana witch, the first time I went to a Love Feast. I was too impersonalistic to appreciate that there could be more to the philopshical side of anything they would say to me than what I already knew: that is, that I was not my body and was eternal spirit soul. So it was Krsna Book that got me first. When I finally joined, a few trips and tokes and trainhops later, one of the four devotees in the little temple would wake me by sitting on the floor next to my head reading from Krsna Book. Then there was Gurudas. And of course Srila Prabhupada. And so many devotees, telling stories of other devotees....

 

This story of Aniruddha brought tears to my eyes. I know he was always dear to Srila Prabhupada, who is the most loving and all-embracing father of us all. I saw Aniruddha when down in Berkeley temple after Rathayatra. He looked the same, youthful, and better still he was so fired up about this renaissance many of us feel converging {I think someone put it like we have been put on a shelf for safekeeping and now the time is ripe for sharing what we have)(talk about sentence structure, but we are only chitchatting here and folksiness forgives our lack of care), and he gave me his email address and I was wondering if you have access to it, prabhu, as I have yet to find it in my papper piles. He was most encouraging. It would be nice if he came to the cyberspace and shared his blissful and humble self with us.

 

And thank you for this reassuring tale--and your beautiful commentary--which illustrates the love which is the source of such causeless mercy from our wonderful acharyas and Sri Mahaprabhu Himself.

 

aspiring to be of service,

Jayaradhe