Tarun Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 If everyone in our Pentagon and World Trade Center gets on TV and vows never ever to kill cows and eat meat again, Jijajijaji, you'll have your peace. Otherwize, forget it mang, forge' i'! What your seeing is just the Iceberg's tip; and what to speak of the Goldberg's! Hitler had it absolutely straight, right on the money. He warned every Jew and our League of Nations: "Setup Israel in Madagascar" or someplace else, not where it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted September 11, 2001 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 Here on Alachua's radio they're broadcasting an interview with former NYC Mayor Koch, an empty-headed degenerate jackass who knws absolutely nothing about material or spiritual life. And what to speak of vikarma-viphalam. Maybe when guns are being held to Bush's bean and Koch's kopf they'll begin to wake up from their Kaliyuga susupti stupors. Pathetically putrid politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jijaji Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 Tarun, You are right this is the tip of the iceberg! This event will change the world from now on as we know it! They knew exactly what they were doin when they hit the 'World Trade Center' right as we are going into the last quarter of the year with expected strong earnings needed to pull us out of an economic slump! They simply want to 'CRUSH US'..time we NUKED THE BASTARDS! jijaji ------------------ PEACE OUT NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggohil Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Ram Hare Ram, Ram Ram Hare Hare [This message has been edited by ggohil (edited 09-11-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krsnacandra dasa Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 I live in New York, so it was all too real over here. Plus, we had taken Srila BV Puri Maharaj to Tower #2 On Radhastami almost 2-3 weeks ago. I find it hard to believe this place where we did kirtan with Srila Maharaj in our sanga ... that this place is now gone! Has ceased to exist! I remember on that same day, or one day after, he did tell us that we had nothing in this world, only the Holy Name. One thing I wonder is, how are all of those employees we saw in the WTC on Radhastami? If any have perished, I only hope that the sankirtan and the sight of a pure devotee has somehow brought them a very auspicious rebirth. [This message has been edited by Krsnacandra dasa (edited 09-11-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRdd Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 This is simply amazing, Krsnacandra prabhu, that all those people had contact with the Holy Names and the Vaisnava devotees such a short time ago! Krsna is so kind! I am starting a painting in a few minutes, a peace painting, and would like inputs now, wil keep chekcing here, of if you want me to paint something in it. Now is the time for us all, regardless of disagreements, come together for World Peace, however we can. So far the input I got was someone envisions a harinam party chanting through the rubble. Myself, I see a lot of flowers. This will be a hodgepodge or collage type painting. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amanpeter Posted September 11, 2001 Report Share Posted September 11, 2001 Originally posted by jijaji: Tarun, You are right this is the tip of the iceberg! This event will change the world from now on as we know it! They knew exactly what they were doin when they hit the 'World Trade Center' right as we are going into the last quarter of the year with expected strong earnings needed to pull us out of an economic slump! They simply want to 'CRUSH US'..time we NUKED THE BASTARDS! jijaji Trouble is, these terrorist acts are impossible to completely prevent. Next time it could very well be nuclear. Such a device can easily be imported piece by piece and assembled anywhere. Personally, I'm in favour of massive retaliation as swiftly as possible. Unfortunately, more `martyrs` will be created and suicide bombers will be lining up to volunteer. To think that we can remain secure while keeping all enemy threats at bay with cruise missiles, electronic/satellite surveillance, etc. is completely unrealistic, I'm afraid. I can't help wondering how all this will fit in with the Golden Age of Lord Caitanya. Maybe we'll all be chanting in caves, prabhus... [This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jijaji Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 World Trade Center demolished, The Pentagon attacked. God Help Us all! jijaji ------------------ PEACE OUT NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 If everyone in our Pentagon and World Trade Center gets on TV and vows never ever to kill cows and eat meat again, Jijajijaji, you'll have your peace.(Tarun) This formula seems not to work. Dalai Lama and his people had followed it and had to suffer a genocide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audarya lila Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 The Dalai Lama is not a vegetarian, though I agree with you that the solution offered is simplistic and unrealistic. My son told me that he heard that people were giving out candy in Palestine and were cheering in the streets when they heard about the successful strike against the world trade center. He said they think that Americans are evil. I don't know, we are all products of our environment to a certain extent. If any of us grew up in the west bank we might have the same ideas or foster the same type of hatred. It seems to me that sadhu-sanga is the answer. I am very happy to hear that such a wonderful sadhu blessed the world trade center with his presence and that the devotees performed such a wonderful kirtan in one of those buildings just prior to this tragedy. Hate begets hate and the cycle seems endless. Who is willing to break it? I ask my kids that all the time when they are fighting. There are all types of people in this world who are influenced by different modes of nature. It crosses all cultural and religious boundaries. Some people are more influenced by goodness and are gentle by nature. Passion and ignorance are not a product of a particular religion, geographic region, skin color etc. All souls are part of Krsna and will find their proper place in his service. It is our job to devise the proper ways and means to engage all people in divine service so that all will have a chance to progress. Your servant, Audarya lila dasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 My son told me that he heard that people were giving out candy in Palestine and were cheering in the streets when they heard about the successful strike against the world trade center. He said they think that Americans are evil. (Audarya-lila) Americans are just the ‘official’ example on non-believers given by Muslin preachers all over. According to them non-believers are ruled by Satan and should be converted, punished or eliminated. They seem to follow the instruction; “if you do not know God- or if you have some imaginary god- then you must learn who God actually is. And if you refuse to learn then you must be punished.” (by your Prabhupada - from Back to Godhead volumne 12 no.9 1977) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 The Dalai Lama is not a vegetarian, though I agree with you that the solution offered is simplistic and unrealistic. You are right! Dalai Lama has changed his mind in this regard after the holocaust of his people. Now he is a non-veg like many other people. Too much ahimsa may be very harmful!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: My son told me that he heard that people were giving out candy in Palestine and were cheering in the streets when they heard about the successful strike against the world trade center. He said they think that Americans are evil. (Audarya-lila) Americans are just the ‘official’ example on non-believers given by Muslin preachers all over. According to them non-believers are ruled by Satan and should be converted, punished or eliminated. They seem to follow the instruction; “if you do not know God- or if you have some imaginary god- then you must learn who God actually is. And if you refuse to learn then you must be punished.” (by your Prabhupada - from Back to Godhead volumne 12 no.9 1977) Satyaraja dasa,I think the punishment that Srila Prabhupada spoke of is referring to the suffering imposed upon us by the laws of nature if we embrace the atheistic materialism that prevents us from being liberated from the bondages of the material world.Srila Prabhupada would never have instructed his followers to engage acts of terrorism.Please,please stop taking cheap shots at Srila Prabhupada.You have nothing to gain by making foolish and reckless statements. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Leyh: I think the punishment that Srila Prabhupada spoke of is referring to the suffering imposed upon us by the laws of nature if we embrace the atheistic materialism that prevents us from being liberated from the bondages of the material world. Satyaraj: Please re-read the article by your Prabhupada posted in the thread called “Absolute Authority.” He is clearly defending the punishment by a Krsna-conscious ruler. What is the real difference between a Krsna-conscious ruler and a Allah-conscious ruler? Maybe one’s side of the border? [This message has been edited by Satyaraja dasa (edited 09-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: Leyh: I think the punishment that Srila Prabhupada spoke of is referring to the suffering imposed upon us by the laws of nature if we embrace the atheistic materialism that prevents us from being liberated from the bondages of the material world. Satyaraj: Please re-read the article by your Prabhupada posted in the thread called “Absolute Authority.” He is clearly defending the punishment by a Krsna-conscious ruler. What is the real difference between a Krsna-conscious ruler and a Allah-conscious ruler? Maybe one’s side of the border? [This message has been edited by Satyaraja dasa (edited 09-12-2001).] Devotee: Then a Krsna-conscious leader has to be like a father? SP: Yes. That quality was personally exhibited by Lord Ramacandra. He treated His subjects like His own sons, and they treated Lord Rama as their father. The relationship between the king and the citizens should be like that between a father and his sons. Devotee: The chastisement tha the king gives... SP: That is out of love, not enviousness. Chastisement means correction. If a citizen is accting wrongly, he has to be corrected. This is actually Krsna's business in human socity: to chastise the miscreants, to give protection to the godly personls, and to establish the true principals of religion. This is the mission of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the world and we have to execute His mission. Gradually, Krsna conscious devotees have to take the posts of leadership and correct the whole human society. Srila Prabhupada's punishment is that of chastisment...not terrorist acts like suicide bombings and hijacking planes. I think there is no difference between a person who is truly Allah Conscious and one who is truly Krsna Conscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Leyh: Srila Prabhupada's punishment is that of chastisment...not terrorist acts like suicide bombings and hijacking planes. Satyaraj: Why you did not quote the part from the same article where Prabhupada clearly states; “if you do not know God- or if you have some imaginary god- then you must learn who God actually is. And if you refuse to learn then you must be punished”? For certain the method of punishment wasn’t mentioned by him. It could be a simple danda or something worse than that... Maybe to force the infractor to kneel down on corn grains and to chant 16 rounds of harinama for example! Leyh:I think there is no difference between a person who is truly Allah Conscious and one who is truly Krsna Conscious. Satyaraj: Yes. Now you are right! A person who is really Allah-conscious would say that Americans are under the rule of Satan and should be converted, punished or eliminated. A person who is really Krsna-conscious would say that Americans are under the spell of Maya and should be converted, punished or eliminated, as they are classified by their leader as rascals, demons, karmis, atheists, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Leyh and Satyaraj, Here are my response to your posts: Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: For certain the method of punishment wasn’t mentioned by him. It could be a simple danda or something worse than that... Maybe to force the infractor to kneel down on corn grains and to chant 16 rounds of harinama for example! My response: Satyaraja Dasa, if SP didn't specify the details of punishment, then why do you go about speculating? In this case, SP was talking of a generic scenario and not a particular case. So, if someone doesn't follow the scriptures then he will face suffering as per the law of Karma..and that would be his punishment. I would like to point out to you that in Lilamruta SP has clearly stated (in generic terms again) that our sufferings are as per the laws of karma. As far the reference to the king goes, SP has clearly stated on many occasions that a king should rule by the smritis, should be guided by detached brahmanas, should be righteous and caring for his citizens. Since our scriptures never declare anyone to be a 'kafir' or recommend 'jihad' or 'fatwa', you can be sure that SP was not even hinting at terrorist attack on non-believers. Even in case of those who violate the peace in society by abominable acts, the smritis prescribe punishment only after civil trial. So, please stop speculating. Dear Leyh, you stated: I think there is no difference between a person who is truly Allah Conscious and one who is truly Krsna Conscious.: My response: I think you are also making a sweeping generalization. A Muslim doesn't know the qualities that make Allah. In fact they don't even believe that Allah has a form. So, how can anyone be Allah-conscious? I think many devotees, as you have done, go over-board equating KC with 'Allah-consciousness'. This is not correct. While there may be some good aspects in Islam, since conception its history is replete with violence against non-Muslims and intolerance. And these started with the Prophet himself. On the other hand, the vedic systems, whether vaishnava or advaita, and Buddhism have been civil, non-aggressive, introspective and tranquil. So, let us not try to equate all faiths in a vain attempt to please all and sundry. Satyaraj: Yes. Now you are right! A person who is really Allah-conscious would say that Americans are under the rule of Satan and should be converted, punished or eliminated. A person who is really Krsna-conscious would say that Americans are under the spell of Maya and should be converted, punished or eliminated, as they are classified by their leader as rascals, demons, karmis, atheists, and so on. My response: Satyaraj Dasa, our leader SP certainly called them all that. But where did he say that they should be eliminated? In fact SP clearly stated that the principle of KC is so pure and high that its success should not be measured by numbers. This shows that he was aware that in the given situation KC devotees will be only a few in number. He never said that we should treat 'others' as enemies. He in fact urged that we should extend KC to them by all means, including singing kirtans, dancing, tasty prasadam etc...so that atleast in tasting one of the above he may chant the holy name of Krishna. I hope the message is clear to you now. I hope you have read his conversations with George Harrison, then a struggling neo-phyte. SP clearly tells GH that despite all the external problems what really matters is chanting the holy name. SP also clearly stated that KC is not sectarian. So, please stop making slanderous generalizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radharaman01 Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Since the Dalai Lama has been mentioned I just thought I'd pass on something that I read some time ago. It would seem that he was a vegetarian for many years, however, following a serious illness he began to eat meat on the advice of his doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Satyaraja, Are you not an expert at taking words out of context, expand them and render an altogether different meaning? And when this cannot serve your purpose, you invent things on your own, don't you? Coming to your point on 'enemies', Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya warns aspiring devotees of associating with non-believers as that would be detrimental their own progress. It doesn't ask them to regard them as enemies. Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: karthik_v: He never said that we should treat 'others' as enemies. Satyaraj: Yes, Prabhupada was actually a self-made acarya and did not follow his preceptorial line, isn’t? Because Bhaktivinoda has recommended to madhyama-bhaktas to consider some (most) people as enemies. Just read Jaiva-dharma’s chapter 8 on “Vaisnava Behavior” and you may check it out by yourself. It is an established doctrine in Gaudiya-vaisnavism that non-believers should be considered as enemies. Your own society mirrors this precept and you cannot disguise it too much. [This message has been edited by Satyaraja dasa (edited 09-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yashoda dd Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Just few years ago, I remember bomby falling down in my home city. So, I went over Srila Prabhupada's books, trying to find out what his teaching is. I was involved in the war myself, just to survive. In disgust, I left the country and moved to the temple outside the country. *************Morning walk with Srila Prabhupada on April 4, 1975 in Mayapura: “Prabhupada: Preaching will be very nice after the war when both of them, especially Russia, will be finished. Rupanuga: They want to make India the battleground? Paramahamsa: Also, Prabhupada, Atreya Rsi said that the Arabs are preparing for the war. They're buying billions and billions of dollars worth of missiles and jets and tanks from America. Prabhupada: Yes, so they are being prepared. War will soon start. Visnujana: The Arab men all go to America to be trained in the armed forces there. Prabhupada: Hm? Visnujana: In all the armed forces centers in America, they train the Arab nations to fight. Prabhupada: Oh. Visnujana: They let the young men come into the U.S.A. to learn how to use the missiles and everything. Pancadravida: Recently, this Bhutto of Pakistan, he was very happy because they were talking about lifting a ten-year holding on arms from the United States, and now, they say, Pakistan will soon get arms from America. Prabhupada: Yes, they are getting. They are already getting. The Pakistan will start the war with India. And then everything will be... Devotees: Oh! Whew! Devotee: Pakistan will start a war... (devotees talking among themselves.) Pancadravida: They have started the war maybe eight times. Prabhupada: (Aside Hmm? No, we can go. Pancadravida: What will the devotees do while the war is going on? Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krsna. Devotees: Jaya! (laughter) Prabhupada: You have got only business. Pancadravida: Will we stay in the cities or will...? Prabhupada: We can stay anywhere.” Morning walk with Srila Prabhupada on May 10, 1975 in Perth: “Amogha: Is there going to be a world war very soon? We heard there would be. Prabhupada: Yes. Amogha: Then it will be a very different situation for preaching. Prabhupada: Your preaching will not be stopped. It will go on.” Conversation with Srila Prabhupada in Teheran on August 10, 1976: “Srila Prabhupada:Then? How you can stop war? Because you are animal, you fight, you can give some name, either on religious ground or this philosophical ground. But because you are animal you will fight. You can give a different name. That is different thing. But because you are dogs, you'll fight. The real religion is why they will fight? Religion means to accept God. So if you are Muslim, I am Hindu, if I accept God, if You accept God, then where is fight? If we accept that God is the proprietor, God is the father, then where is the question of fight? Because we are not religious, therefore fight. Otherwise, if you accept God is the supreme father, if I accept God is the supreme, why fight? We have to go down? Nava-yauvana: Everything you say, Prabhupada, makes sense. Everything you say makes sense. Prabhupada: Yes, our preaching should be sensible, then people will accept. After all, they are human being. There is sense, but by force they are covering the sense. So we have to awaken them by handling carefully, that's all. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, jiv jago, jiv jago gauracanda bole. Who are... Uttisthata jagrata prapya varan nibodhata. They are sleeping. We have awaken them, that's it. That is preaching.” ****** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhaktavasya Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by jijaji: Tarun, You are right this is the tip of the iceberg! This event will change the world from now on as we know it! They knew exactly what they were doin when they hit the 'World Trade Center' right as we are going into the last quarter of the year with expected strong earnings needed to pull us out of an economic slump! They simply want to 'CRUSH US'..time we NUKED THE BASTARDS! jijaji What happened to you? Association becoming a touchstone, I guess. Nuke the bastards, fry the jews, crush the enemy...it's all the same bullshit tit for tat. What about the people of Iraq being bombed back to the stone-age, their water supply, the fall-out and starvation of thousands of also innocent people, men, woman and children through years of sanctions. What about Belgrade, where thousands of citizens who were opposed to the leader were bombed continuously not just for one day but for over a month, day and night. Whoever tosses the first nuclear bomb ensures that none of the people on the planet, for hundreds of generations, have a future life on our shared Mother Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: Leyh: Srila Prabhupada's punishment is that of chastisment...not terrorist acts like suicide bombings and hijacking planes. Satyaraj: Why you did not quote the part from the same article where Prabhupada clearly states; “if you do not know God- or if you have some imaginary god- then you must learn who God actually is. And if you refuse to learn then you must be punished”? For certain the method of punishment wasn’t mentioned by him. It could be a simple danda or something worse than that... Maybe to force the infractor to kneel down on corn grains and to chant 16 rounds of harinama for example! Leyh:I think there is no difference between a person who is truly Allah Conscious and one who is truly Krsna Conscious. Satyaraj: Yes. Now you are right! A person who is really Allah-conscious would say that Americans are under the rule of Satan and should be converted, punished or eliminated. A person who is really Krsna-conscious would say that Americans are under the spell of Maya and should be converted, punished or eliminated, as they are classified by their leader as rascals, demons, karmis, atheists, and so on. You're totally missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitreya Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by leyh: You're totally missing the point. Haribol leyh, He knows no other way.Never expect Satyaraja to agree.If he does it is just to set up another point of arguement. On VNN when shown to be incorrect in something[as we all experience]he would just go back and edit his post so that what he had said that had been shown to be incorrect disappeared and the revised corrected version would now be there like it had been all the time. He can't do that here but one will become very dizzy trying to follow this morphing game of his. Hare Krishna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jijaji Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Originally posted by Bhaktavasya: What happened to you? Association becoming a touchstone, I guess. Nuke the bastards, fry the jews, crush the enemy...it's all the same bullshit tit for tat. What about the people of Iraq being bombed back to the stone-age, their water supply, the fall-out and starvation of thousands of also innocent people, men, woman and children through years of sanctions. What about Belgrade, where thousands of citizens who were opposed to the leader were bombed continuously not just for one day but for over a month, day and night. Whoever tosses the first nuclear bomb ensures that none of the people on the planet, for hundreds of generations, have a future life on our shared Mother Earth. Bhaktavasya Maji, It is time to stand up and be counted. This event was a demarcation line being drawn for something bigger to come. War is not un-Vedic by any means. When the Muslim fanatics invaded India they destroyed much of what they held sacred. The terrorists involved here are the ultimate result of a religion that sees murder as a way to Allah. The sword of Mohammed himself was inscribed with the phrase.. "My Message is Peace" mmmmm..! This is contradictory to what we usually associate with peace. But Mohammed was fanatical and taught that salvation can be had either by 'The Word of Islam' or 'The Sword of Islam' the was no tolerance of other faiths outside the fold of the mussalman. So know these as cunning fanatic who want our children DEAD and have been planning the job for decades. For it to stop we need to respond to this last disaster with something so strong that it will rattle the earth from one end to another. Krishna himself condones WAR at the proper time..and it's here now. Get ready for the most intense of times! Love to All..! jijaji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ananga Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Exactly, Jijaji! Any righteous Vaishnava must condemn these vile and cowardly acts as PURE UNADULTERATED EVIL. Quoting Hitler, Tarun? Please take your medication! [This message has been edited by Ananga (edited 09-12-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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