Bizarre

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by amanpeter:

ouch!

 

 

only when you laugh!

[valaya]

Originally posted by talasiga:

On a serious note, Bhaktavasya

I notice from your profile

you hail from Canada

What do you know about the attack

on a Hindu Temple in Canada as "retaliation"

against fundamentalist Muslim terrorism ?

It just doesn't add up.

 

Canadian writer Naomi Kline (?) was

interviewed on Australian radio this morning

(it is tuesday morning here)

and she said something about this.

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-17-2001).]

This happened close to Toronto. The Hindhu temple was mistaken fo a mosque. Unusual incident for Canada, especially here where we are very multi-cultural. More than 50% of Torontonions are non-white. Hamilton is a much smaller city, though.

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

Srila Prabhupada taught me to call a spade a spade, a thief a thief, and a slut a slut.

 

Sorry bro', chivalry is dead, and this bitch has been harassing me for too long.

 

Random:

I have to declare that you are writing

utter nonsense in the name of Srila Prabhupada. His Divine Grace did teach his disciples to call a spade but he never taught them to spout vulgarities like "s***" or "b*****" You are invoking Srila Prabhupada to justify your own vulgarity and that is so offensive.Now I think you're probably going to type out a sneering,sarcastic reply...but I sincerely request you to reconsider your attitude.Yours in the spirit of goodwill.Hare Krsna!

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-18-2001).]

[Maitreya]

President Bush went to a Mosque today and spoke out against this sort of thing.

 

I believe extremely close scrutiny should be given to their community by the FBI and Canada's counterpart, but let's leave the bats in the closet.

 

Any found complicit with this plot however should be dealt a death blow themselves.

[valaya]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

President Bush went to a Mosque today and spoke out against this sort of thing.

 

I believe extremely close scrutiny should be given to their community by the FBI and Canada's counterpart, but let's leave the bats in the closet.

 

Any found complicit with this plot however should be dealt a death blow themselves.

No `death` blows in Can'tada...!

 

 

[Maitreya]

Oh that's right.Hey did you ever send that Sadistic mass murderer Ng back to us.They harbored him for years.

[Vipashna]

Originally posted by ggohil:

It is curious to note that the perpetrators of terrorism may have prayed to God before executing their mission, believing they are carrying out God’s will. On the other had the victims pray to the same Supreme to grant them the strength to avenge the work of Satin.

 

Similarly,

 

In a competition a competitor prays to God for the first place in the name of his country and his family, but in essence all he seeks from God is 2nd and 3rd place for his opponents.

 

Dear ggohil,

 

This is a reasonable point for discussion and I am distressed that it has been ignored by many of the participants in the discussion so far.

 

Surely a prayer seeking harm or emnity to any being will only result in harm to the person praying.

 

To believe that God is on the side of such a person is pure delusion.

 

 

 

------------------

Mata Vipashna

[valaya]

Originally posted by Vipashna:

Dear ggohil,

 

This is a reasonable point for discussion and I am distressed that it has been ignored by many of the participants in the discussion so far.

 

Surely a prayer seeking harm or emnity to any being will only result in harm to the person praying.

 

To believe that God is on the side of such a person is pure delusion.

 

 

 

No devotee wishes to cause pain to anyone or anybody. War is HELL!!! Much of what you see here and probably over other media is our side preparing to face it aggressively. We cannot afford to lose and this will require strong inner resolve and commitment more than in any previous conflict. We will NOT allow ourselves to become imtimidated or cowered by fear!

 

The quickest way to unite and psyche ourselves for what will soon be upon us, is to demean and depersonalize the enemy. Sorry to say, like the inevitable physical and emotional suffering, It is a necessary part of this nasty package. We have to believe without a doubt that we are right and that right will be victorious. Doubt and fear are our worst enemies, especially when entering a prolonged fight against terrorism, as those are the subtle weapons being used against us. Please try to remember that and remind others when the dark cloud descends upon us all. RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-18-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-18-2001).]

[dasanudas]

Valaya Prabhu,

The concern is that that is exactly what they are doing too. Psyching themselves for the ultimate showdown they are also petrified that America will nuke them so they are prepared to give up their lives. and it seems for a lot of them they have nothing to lose, materially speaking, unlike the western world.

My first view of the news this morning wasn't exactly uplifting. Millions of Indonesian extremist muslems vow to destroy all American embasies if America tries to attack Afghanistan, no doubt it's the luny brigade again but this fervour is drawing more and more sympathizers in to their vortex.

I also read that Carlos the Jackal is rubbing his hands with glee at the news from his prison cell in France. It is a little unnerving to think how many of these loopies are out there. They seem to burn off each others hatred, the great dilemna is that they will probably never come into contact with the Vaisnava conception for them to even consider another point of view.

 

[valaya]

Originally posted by dasanudas:

Valaya Prabhu,

The concern is that that is exactly what they are doing too. Psyching themselves for the ultimate showdown they are also petrified that America will nuke them so they are prepared to give up their lives. and it seems for a lot of them they have nothing to lose, materially speaking, unlike the western world.

My first view of the news this morning wasn't exactly uplifting. Millions of Indonesian extremist muslems vow to destroy all American embasies if America tries to attack Afghanistan, no doubt it's the luny brigade again but this fervour is drawing more and more sympathizers in to their vortex.

I also read that Carlos the Jackal is rubbing his hands with glee at the news from his prison cell in France. It is a little unnerving to think how many of these loopies are out there. They seem to burn off each others hatred, the great dilemna is that they will probably never come into contact with the Vaisnava conception for them to even consider another point of view.

Remember all the macho posturing in Iraq. They ended up kissing American soldiers' boots! We cannot allow public support to wane due to weakness. No time for sentimentality or even mercy. Ruthlessness must be the order of the day, I regret to say. Viet-nam style pacifisism will not have the desired effect this time; in fact, quite the opposite.

 

The main worry is nuclear and biological weapons. We should try to prepare ourselves psychologically for the worst, during this brief calm before the storm. Devotees know they are not their bodies and simply chanting japa has a far reaching effect on everyone and everything. Keep the faith, prabhu! RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-18-2001).]

[dasanudas]

Mercy like death comes in many forms!

Sometimes it's even more of a curse to live.

I like many perspectives, the Lords ways are unfathomable!

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

5000 humans killed in NYC.

 

0 humans killed Cincinnati.

 

Are you on drugs? Can you understand the difference between saving human babies from your liberal friends passion for baby-killing? Are all your children retards???

This is why I suggested going to the test zone to have a one on one 'battle', as they would no longer be considered spiritual discussions. You and I have had these kind of disagreements for over 3 years now. I therefore challenge you to meet me in the test zone.

 

BTW, JRdd, in case you're reading this, what I meant by formatting the thread for battling purposes was to allow room for the inevitable insults I knew Bhutabhavana would spit out when he's caught out. Hardly fitting words for the general devotee viewers to be exposed to.

 

Back to you, Bhuta. Religious terrorism means to believe it is you God-given duty to inflict terror and fear on those who do not follow what you believe to be God's laws. And you bragged about bombing clinics and not getting caught, indicating that you either had a good lawyer or perhaps were 'turned over' by the authorities to act as a stooge or a mole. Still, by bragging about it you clearly indicated that you envisioned yourself to be some kind of holy warrior. BTW, over half a million children have died of starvation and lack of medical care in Iraq. And don't get me started on U.S. involvement in Central America, C.I.A. sponsored terrorism resulting in the torture, disappearance and death of tens of thousands of young men and women in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatamala.

Anyhow, you think of yourself as a ksatriya. Which means you cannot refuse an invitation to battle. And don't use the lame excuse that you can't fight a woman. You, coward that you are, have been fighting and attacking me through 4 different forums so far. An example is the pot-smoking. Although several men, including Mahaksa, have admitted to smoking pot, you have never breathed a word of protest. I barely speak of it, yet whenever I say something you don't like, it's the same boring insults over and over again. Be a man, meet me in the test zone. After high noon, tomorrow.

 

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by valaya:

Remember all the macho posturing in Iraq. They ended up kissing American soldiers' boots! We cannot allow public support to wane due to weakness. No time for sentimentality or even mercy. Ruthlessness must be the order of the day, I regret to say. Viet-nam style pacifisism will not have the desired effect this time; in fact, quite the opposite.

 

The main worry is nuclear and biological weapons. We should try to prepare ourselves psychologically for the worst, during this brief calm before the storm. Devotees know they are not their bodies and simply chanting japa has a far reaching effect on everyone and everything. Keep the faith, prabhu! RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-18-2001).]

Did you know that America supported Iraq for 7 years during the war between hard-line Iran (with it's Ayotallah Komeni) and more moderate Iraq (where no-one is perscuted for religious affiliations). Computer time has run out , so do your homework on the Gulf War. It was all about oil, and protecting rich Kuwatis.

 

[Guest guest]

Bhaktavasya, you are not worth the bandwidth. There are much more important endeavors than playing with a schizophrenic loser.

 

Ask Greg about the trip we made from Vancouver to Seattle a decade ago, and when stopped at the border the ID I showed Customs to get Greg into the country without his ID.

[valaya]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

This is why I suggested going to the test zone to have a one on one 'battle', as they would no longer be considered spiritual discussions. You and I have had these kind of disagreements for over 3 years now. I therefore challenge you to meet me in the test zone.

 

BTW, JRdd, in case you're reading this, what I meant by formatting the thread for battling purposes was to allow room for the inevitable insults I knew Bhutabhavana would spit out when he's caught out. Hardly fitting words for the general devotee viewers to be exposed to.

 

Back to you, Bhuta. Religious terrorism means to believe it is you God-given duty to inflict terror and fear on those who do not follow what you believe to be God's laws. And you bragged about bombing clinics and not getting caught, indicating that you either had a good lawyer or perhaps were 'turned over' by the authorities to act as a stooge or a mole. Still, by bragging about it you clearly indicated that you envisioned yourself to be some kind of holy warrior. BTW, over half a million children have died of starvation and lack of medical care in Iraq. And don't get me started on U.S. involvement in Central America, C.I.A. sponsored terrorism resulting in the torture, disappearance and death of tens of thousands of young men and women in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatamala.

Anyhow, you think of yourself as a ksatriya. Which means you cannot refuse an invitation to battle. And don't use the lame excuse that you can't fight a woman. You, coward that you are, have been fighting and attacking me through 4 different forums so far. An example is the pot-smoking. Although several men, including Mahaksa, have admitted to smoking pot, you have never breathed a word of protest. I barely speak of it, yet whenever I say something you don't like, it's the same boring insults over and over again. Be a man, meet me in the test zone. After high noon, tomorrow.

 

Bhaktavasya Prabhu, BB is back in uniform undergoing intensive training, before being sent overseas to risk his life, defending freedoms we all enjoy. This is not the best time to provoke him, believe me! Right or wrong, good or bad, it's out of our hands, anyways. Better I think to chant and pray as you see fit, according to your own conscience. Whatever happened between you two can be taken up again afterwards. Thank you.

 

 

[Vipashna]

 

Originally posted by valaya:

The quickest way to unite and psyche ourselves for what will soon be upon us, is to demean and depersonalize the enemy.

 

Dear Valaya,

 

Invoke the goddess Psyche by all means.

 

She is Cupid's consort and cannot help but attract love.

 

Use her powers to see past your negative thoughts to the path of spiritual advancement.

 

 

 

------------------

Mata Vipashna

[Jagat]

Invocatory prayer:

 

May Krishna provide wisdom to all of us, especially our leaders. May our justifiable anger not blind us and prevent us from finding real solutions to the terrible problems that the entire world faces.

 

It is difficult to say anything about this terrible event that will not be misconstrued by the Manichaens, who see God on the side of America and the Evil One on the side of Islam.

 

Thus 5,000 civilian Americans dead is terrorism, whereas hundreds of thousands of dead Muslim civilians are merely "collateral damage."

 

George Bernard Shaw said, "Every complex problem has a simple solution. But it is the wrong one."

 

The "war on terrorism" will be like the war on drugs. No end. No success. Why do so many Americans resist looking for root causes? Will waging war on Afghanistan accomplish anything? They don't need to be bombed into the stone age, they're already there. Will waging war against any part of the Islamic world accomplish anything other than exacerbating the problem?

 

Ben Laden or "Islamic terrorism" is a symptom, not a cause.

 

Was the Gulf War a "measured response"? Was it successful? Did it perhaps have something to do with what happened last week?

 

By the way, maybe we have the wrong demon:

 

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr010919_1_n.shtml

 

By the way, bombing a skyscraper or an abortion clinic is different only in degree. The basic principle is the same. The 5,000-0 score only shows that Bhuta Bhavana is not as angry about his principles as our Muslim terrorist friends.

 

My dandavats to all.

 

Jagat

 

[Guest guest]

By the way, bombing a skyscraper or an abortion clinic is different only in degree. The basic principle is the same. The 5,000-0 score only shows that Bhuta Bhavana is not as angry about his principles as our Muslim terrorist friends.

 

Your friends, Jagat.

 

And you have no clue to either anger or principle.

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by rand0M aXiS:

By the way, bombing a skyscraper or an abortion clinic is different only in degree. The basic principle is the same. The 5,000-0 score only shows that Bhuta Bhavana is not as angry about his principles as our Muslim terrorist friends.

 

Your friends, Jagat.

 

And you have no clue to either anger or principle.

suhrn-mitrary-udasina-

madhyastha-dvesya-bandhusu

sadhusv api ca papesu

sama-buddhir visisyate

 

A person is said to be still further advanced when he regards all --- the honest well-wisher,friends and enemies,the envious,the pious,the sinner,and those who are indifferent and impartial---with an equal mind." (Bg.6.9)This is a sign of real spiritual advancment.In this material world we are considering people friends and enemies on the bodily platform --- that is,on the basis of sense gratification.If one gratifies our senses,he is our friend,and if he doesn't,he is our enemy.However,once we have realized God,or the Absolute Truth,there are no such material considerations.

In this material world,all conditioned souls are under ilusion.A doctor treats all patients,and although a patient may be delirious and insult the doctor,the doctor does not refuse to treat him.He still admisnisters the medicine that is required.As Lord Jesus Christ said,we should hate the sin,not the sinner.That is a very nice statement,because the sinner is under illusion.He is mad.If we hate him,how can we deliver him?Therefore those who are advanced devotees,who are really servants of God,do not hate anyone.When Lord Jesus Christ was being crucified,he said,"My God,forgive them.They know not what they do."This is the proper attitude of an advanced devotee.He understands that the conditioned souls cannot be hated,because they have become mad due to their materialistic way of thinking.In this Krsna consciousness movement,there is no question of hating anyone.Everyone is welcome to chant Hare Krsna,take krsna-prasada,listen to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita and try to rectify material,conditioned life.

--- The Path of Perfection,by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,Chapter Three: Learning How to See God

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 09-20-2001).]

[Tarun]

Randomji: Jagat, Valaya, Bhaktavasya are presenting good arguments.

1) to protect his fiefdom, Xatriyas have to to be stern, sometimes even aggressive.

2) Xatriyas should not do anything to prolong hatred, stretch it out.

BBji: Isn't Amerikan Foreign Policy too too (Tutu) inconsistent/vikarmik?

[Jagat]

Sometimes I wonder. For instance, when McVeigh bombed Oklahoma, BB and his acolytes were quick to remind us of Waco. So, they have some insight into cause and effect when it comes to terrorist acts.

 

Obviously, BB has some understanding of "anger." Perhaps we should better call it frustration.

 

Terrorism is about the powerless making a statement. That is why someone who thinks abortion is unjust and sees no legal means to achieve his end, believes that his only recourse is violence.

 

The same applies to Timothy McVeigh and to Muslim terrorists. Of course, such actions cannot be permitted, but repression on its own is not a long-term measure that can work.

 

Admittedly, Islam is a tough nut and seems more resistent to ordinary psychology than others. But then, I sometimes feel the same applies to Bhuta Bhavana or Puru Das.

 

The real place to begin, of course, is Israel. Of course, American military presence in Saudi Arabia seems to be a bigger issue than I was aware of before. I saw one Islamic activist from London saying, Hey in 50 years or so, there'll be no more oil. And the royal family in Saudi Arabia has done nothing to prepare for that. At the same time, America will lose its interest in the region. The fundamentalists are waiting for this moment. They are very patient.

 

Anyway, Leyh, thanks for reminding us that there is a Krishna conscious viewpoint that we should be trying to find.

 

Your servant,

 

Jagat

 

 

[Maitreya]

Originally posted by Jagat:

 

By the way, bombing a skyscraper or an abortion clinic is different only in degree. The basic principle is the same. The 5,000-0 score only shows that Bhuta Bhavana is not as angry about his principles as our Muslim terrorist friends.

 

 

I see a different similarity.We all see the what just happened in NYC as an act of terrorism.I also see what happens in abortion clinics daily as state sponsored terrorism against the unborn.Where is the terror in abortion some may ask?It all appears so orderly, so clinical, why it even resembles a medical procedure with the "doctors"[butchers] wearing white coats and displaying their degrees on the wall.The terror is in the hearts of those helpless souls as they are being scraped out of the"mothers" womb.You can see their pitiful attempts to avoid the butchers knife on a Sonagram but they have no escape.We would be able to hear them as well, but due to their underdeveloped bodies their screams are rendered silent.

 

Yeah there are some similarites all right.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 09-20-2001).]

[Maitreya]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Yes, and there are the screams of the souls who just came from and are about to enter an unsafe, unjust world.

 

The material world is always unsafe.The But we can be assured that there will be justiced meted out to those that murder the unborn,and in so doing deny them the valuable human form.

 

 

Krishna says that it is unwanted population that creates a hellish society. Besides that, no-one can kill the imperishable soul.

 

Trying to justify abortion by Krishna's words?Bizarre.

 

Maybe it goes back into the Brahman, preserved until it is received and welcomed into a peaceful world/home.

 

Or maybe it has paid its debt and moves on to a human birth elsewhere.And then maybe the so-called mother and doctor who committed the murder get to come back to a similar 'clinic' and experience the procedure of being scraped out of the womb themselves.

 

 

Ultimately, whether to produce or not is a matter between the woman and her own conscience.

 

Thus spake Bhaktyavasya.Actual laws governing human conduct are given by God,a person can adhere to them or not.Of course,the reactions are not optionable.

 

Perhaps the thread is being redirected, so start an abortion thread if you like,[i won't].Although I do find devotees supporting abortion to be very bizarre.

 

edit:# to take out the first edit.Yes I am quite crazy.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Maitreya (edited 09-20-2001).]

[valaya]

Got a feeling we're all in for a good healthy dose of reality very soon and, in my humble opinion, it's about bloody time! Great time for a japa walk is when it's raining body parts! No falling asleep then, eh prabhus? HARIBOL! RR

[Audarya lila]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Yes, and there are the screams of the souls who just came from and are about to enter an unsafe, unjust world. Krishna says that it is unwanted population that creates a hellish society. Besides that, no-one can kill the imperishable soul. Maybe it goes back into the Brahman, preserved until it is received and welcomed into a peaceful world/home. Ultimately, whether to produce or not is a matter between the woman and her own conscience.

 

 

I agree with Maitreya on this one. I can't believe a devotee would advocate 'choice/abortion' in this fashion. The choice is there in whether to engage the senses, after conception the only choice left to a devotee or a conscious human being is how best to provide for the child.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa