MY LORD GOD, I have no idea where I am going.

[leyh]

The following is a very inspiring prayer by the late Catholic monk and poet Thomas Merton (1916-1968):

 

MY LORD GOD, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone. ("Thoughts in Solitude"© Abbey of Gethsemani)

 

 

[JRdd]

Prabhus, I don't know if I can convey this well enough, but last night before I went to bed I was hit or graced with a profound realization about the reality and measure of Krsna's actual and natural longing for us to be with him. I tried just now to describe it to a friend and will paste it in pretty much as I wrote it:.

 

I started getting a mega flash last night about the profoundness of this thing we are bent on doing, this yearning we have to be united with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and how very very small we are, in every way, and how OF COURSE!!! IT DEPENDS ON THE TOTAL GIFT OF THE LORD TO TAKE US BACK. AND OF COURSE!!! IT CONSTANTLY ELUDES US, SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE TO US. Because it IS impossible for us. And so no blame, no shame, it's the way it is, and Krsna really really is so kind and loving, and ALL HE WANTS IS FOR US TO UNDERSTAND OUR INSIGNIFICANCE, OUR INABILITY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN, AND ALL HE WANTS IS FOR US TO KEEP YEARNING, AND YEARNING EVEN MORE. THAT'S ALL. AND THAT'S ALL PRABHUPADA WANTED TO INSTILL IN US, AND THAT WAS HIS GIFT--TO MAKE US FEEL PAIN IN SEPARATION FROM OUR ETERNAL CONSTITUTIONAL POSITIONS IN RELATION TO OUR ETERNAL LORD.

I don't know if I said that as I felt it, but it just hit me real strong what this is all about, and how natural it is to feel so so frustrated in this present sphere.

 

This was such a humbling and reassuring realization and I hope it conveys something of value to even one person reading this. I woke up this morning feeling very raw, and choked up like there is a lump in my throat. I hope I can channel these feelings into expressing something beautiful for the pleasure of Krsna and/or His devotees today.

 

All glories to the assembled mutual hankerers for nothing other than to be situated in unalloyed service to our Eternal Relatives.

 

love, Jayaradhe

 

[FaithlessDevotee]

Not from jndas: This message has been deleted for using foul language. Please do not use foul language in these forums. These are supposed to be for spiritual discussions. By speaking in offensive manners we just scare other people away who would otherwise be interested in participating in these forums.I will give every one three warnings each in this regards. - jndas

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 10-19-2001).]

[Audarya lila]

Dear Faithlessdevotee,

 

Pleae check your foul language at the door. These forums are for gentle behavior as is devotional service in general.

 

Tripurari Swami has said on many occasions that the term chant and be happy is a good introduction to Krsna consciounesss, but that after sometime we will come to find that the reality is 'chant and cry', 'do or die'. One of his God Brothers told him that he thought Krsna consiousness was all about being happy, but that after some time he came to realize that it was really about crying and crying and he wasn't comfortable with that so he left.

 

The reality is that spiritual life looks miserable on the outside but is filled with incredible, indescribable nectar on the inside. Material life is just exactly the opposite. It looks wonderful on the outside but it is rotten to the core.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[valaya]

Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee:

Message deleted by jndas.

 

 

I understand your frustration and the anger associated with it. Do you know about the two types of faith, raganuga and vaidhi? There is much I would like to discuss with you, but this is not a suitable place. You are welcome to Email me confidentially if you can reveal more about yourself personally, to which I will reply in kind. amanpeter@hotmail.com

 

valaya RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-19-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 10-19-2001).]

[FaithlessDevotee]

My message only had to pieces of bad language which I though would be acceptable here.

 

Just why on earth should it have to be that way? What type of a spiritual religion/movement (whatever you want to call it) be this way?

 

It's absurd.

 

 

[shvu]

 

My message only had to pieces of bad language which I though would be acceptable here.

I think the "no of pieces" of bad language are of no importance. Out of curiosity, what according to you, was the maximum no of pieces, acceptable here? Do you happen to know any place where a certain number of pieces of foul language are tolerated.

 

Just why on earth should it have to be that way? What type of a spiritual religion/movement (whatever you want to call it) be this way?

It has nothing to do with sprituality. It is about proper communication and it is important that one uses proper language, and I am sure, you are aware of this. For instance, you would not use such words while answering a test paper in your school. The same reasons for why you would not do such a thing, apply here and everywhere else.

 

It's absurd.

 

[...]

 

Cheers

 

[shvu]

 

The reality is that spiritual life looks miserable on the outside but is filled with incredible, indescribable nectar on the inside. Material life is just exactly the opposite. It looks wonderful on the outside but it is rotten to the core.

Audarya Lila,

 

Not to start a fresh argument, but I do not find material life "rotten to the core". It depends on what we want in life because, I am fine with material life and so are plenty of other people.

 

I gather you have a family, friends, posessions, a means of income, etc. Do you find all of this "rotten to the core"? Just curious to know the reasons behind your perspective.

 

Thanx

 

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

It seems you guys are taking out my whole post because of personal opinion and that you don't like anything that challeges your philosophy (krishna's).

Actually, I'm the only evil villain who deletes messages. The rules of conduct are quite clear in these forums. Basically, no bad language.

 

I request people to be friendly and polite, but I won't try to enforce that.

 

Many of the people on these forums don't believe in Krishna - Shvu for one. He has always been free to post his sceptisism. Many others disagree and post their arguments on various issues. Not a single message has ever been deleted because of the content of belief or philosophy.

 

If we can't control the words we use during "spiritual" discussions, should we really be discussing? Of course, you probably weren't aware of the rules regarding language usage. That's no problem.

 

But to think people are specially censoring you because of your beliefs, when in reality it was because you used some offensive four letter words, is ridiculous.

 

Feel free to repost your original message without the offensive words in it, and see if it gets removed or not.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

ME: Care to drop me an email then. I would like to here the answer to my question. Why don't you just cut the 'bad' language out next time instead of deleting the whole thing.

...because if users don't respect the rules of speech for these forums, then I don't respect their messages in which they use offensive language. Pretty simple.

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee:

.......you don't like anything that challeges your philosophy (krishna's)

I have yet to see anything in this forum

which seriously challenges my connection with Krishna

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[JRdd]

Hare Krsna. Since I am the one who made the post which faithless objected to so strongly that he abandoned all sense of propriety and instead of enquiring with submission chose to use foul language, i will explain what I meant by the post, but I will be brief, as over all I feel that those who want to be bewildered will be, and those who want to pick fault will pick fault anywhere.

 

What I stated was a true realization, which happens to be correct according to the Vedic version. To feel reassured of the boundlessness of Krsna's mercy is a real gift, a rare and wonderful one. I tried to capture that glimpse and share it before it flitted away like a beautiful butterfly. Because such a gift is transcendental, and therefore eternal in nature, that gift is never lost, even if seemingly buried when one gets distracted by the day to day affairs of this world.

 

I am going to assume that faithless is really and truly wondering what is meant by those words of mine, and will answer it accordingly. I have no attachment to your conclusion. I did not mean that one must be resigned eternally to a mood of separation. But while in that mood, one may take great solace in understanding it. And that position is one of acceptance, not resignation. That acceptance involves an opening of the heart, and deepens one's gratitude, attachment to Krsna, the works. In that acceptance one may even see Krsna. As Audaryalila said, what is apparent from a mundane perspective does not exist on the transcendental realm. Therefore we devotees often like to use the term "inconceivably simultaneously one and different", as coined by Srila Prabhupada. The mood of separation is also the mood of being with Krsna. This is impossible to conceive of by the mind alone. One may not taste honey by licking the outside on the jar.

 

I felt reassured by the understanding that Krsna gives freely His mercy because I have come to understand that I am not able to deepen my relationship with Krsna without it. It is a matter of the heart, and not of what one can or cannot do in one's present condition.

 

I hope this clarifies the matter.

 

thanks, Jayaradhe

 

 

[This message has been edited by JRdd (edited 10-20-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee:

VALAYA: I understand your frustration and the anger associated with it. Do you know about the two types of faith, raganuga and vaidhi? There is much I would like to discuss with you, but this is not a suitable place. You are welcome to Email me confidentially if you can reveal more about yourself personally, to which I will reply in kind.

 

ME: Care to drop me an email then. I would like to here the answer to my question. Why don't you just cut the 'bad' language out next time instaed of deleting the whole thing.

 

I get the feeling you deleted the post because it doesn't follow your views.

 

Only jndas can delete posts here. If you want to Email me, do it soon because what little mercy I have left is quickly dwindling. You have not posted your Email address.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by leyh:

The following is a very inspiring prayer by the late Catholic monk and poet Thomas Merton ..........

 

My dear Leyh

Friend of the one

on the sliding sleigh,

 

Why didn't you post this prayer

on the "prayer" thread started by Valaya ?

At least there it may not have attracted all this fracas.

 

 

[FaithlessDevotee]

I was talking about the content of what I wrote, not just the individual 2 words.

 

It seems you guys are taking out my whole post because of personal opinion and that you don't like anything that challeges your philosophy (krishna's)

[FaithlessDevotee]

VALAYA: I understand your frustration and the anger associated with it. Do you know about the two types of faith, raganuga and vaidhi? There is much I would like to discuss with you, but this is not a suitable place. You are welcome to Email me confidentially if you can reveal more about yourself personally, to which I will reply in kind.

 

ME: Care to drop me an email then. I would like to here the answer to my question. Why don't you just cut the 'bad' language out next time instaed of deleting the whole thing.

 

I get the feeling you deleted the post because it doesn't follow your views.

[Audarya lila]

Originally posted by shvu:

Audarya Lila,

 

Not to start a fresh argument, but I do not find material life "rotten to the core". It depends on what we want in life because, I am fine with material life and so are plenty of other people.

 

I gather you have a family, friends, posessions, a means of income, etc. Do you find all of this "rotten to the core"? Just curious to know the reasons behind your perspective.

 

Thanx

 

 

Hi Shvu,

 

Thanks for the question. I understand your perspective. I am not going to quote scripture to you in this regard as you are most likely familiar with it already. The real answer to your question is one of experience. One drop of real spiritual experience makes the world and all the pursuits associated with it seem meaningless and trivial at best. Because of my experience I have the perspective that I mentioned - although the exact words and method of expression are borrowed from my Gurudeva.

 

Yes I have a wife, two children, a job, house, pets, friends, neighbors etc. They are meaningful because I see them for what and who they are - Krsna's. That's really the bottom line. Devotees are not different than anyone else in every respect except one - for them everything belongs to Krsna and everything has it's proper place employed in his service. Srila Prabhupada gave the example of a devotee sweeping the temple room and a worker sweeping the shop floor. The activity is the same, but the consciousness is vastly different.

 

The reason I see material life as rotten to the core is because I see anything that is devoid of Krsna consciousness as rotten to the core, no matter how wonderful it may look to our conditioned senses and mind. Another simplistic analogy that Srila Prabhupada used to give which speaks to this question is, 'material life and all material paraphenalia are like so many zeros. When we put Krsna in front of them - they become valuable - otherwise not.'

 

Anyway, I hope you understand more clearly what my perspective is.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

 

[Guest guest]

The reality is that spiritual life looks miserable on the outside but is filled with incredible, indescribable nectar on the inside. Material life is just exactly the opposite. It looks wonderful on the outside but it is rotten to the core.

 

Here is the Zoroastrian theology imported from Islam by modern Gaudiyas. The eternal dispute between haven’s and evil’s forces. Hari’s lilas of material creation are considered as an evil’s activities. Material life is to be compared as a satanic way of life and not as a Hari’s lila and an expression of His free will and Grace. So, it is termed ‘rotten to the core’ as a hellish situation meant to sinners.

 

What a enormous difference from the Vedic viewpoint, where Hari is the one without a second and Maya is the expression of His free will and Grace and not as a Satan’s affair to delude and tempt fallen souls.

 

[Guest guest]

b] Another simplistic analogy that Srila Prabhupada used to give which speaks to this question is, 'material life and all material paraphenalia are like so many zeros. When we put Krsna in front of them - they become valuable - otherwise not.' (Audarya lila)

 

Here is mayavada doctrine being established by your Prabhupada. Sankara has considered Maya as a non-entity, like zero, just like that mayic ‘material life and all material paraphenalia (that) are like so many zeros.’ Your Prabhupada is also inferring that sometimes Krsna is not placed in front of them. So, this non-entity (material life and all material paraphenalia) is actually another Brahman or something different than Brahman. And that’s purest Mayavada!!!

 

 

[Audarya lila]

Satyaraja,

 

With all due respect, your continued nonsensical posts meant to demean and discredit Gaudiya Vaishnavism only serve to demean and discredit your own good self.

 

I had a dream with you in it last night. You might ask, 'how is that since we have never met?' Well the answer is fairly simple, you were in it in spirit and in terms of your present condition and former associations. In the dream I was visiting with a very old and good friend who happens to be a disciple of Naryana Maharaja's. I mentioned your name to him and told him that you seem to find great pleasure in trying to discridit all that you had held as true when you were a 'Gaudiya Vaishanava'. I thought he might ask me what it is your saying and speak to defeat/dismiss it, but he didn't do so. I looked at him and he had tears running down his cheeks. I understood immediately that his response was from the heart and not from the head. He truly felt sad and had nothing to say - it was all said in his tears.

 

Other than that, I really don't have any response to your two posts since they are so far off base they don't warrant a response.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[Audarya lila]

Jijagi,

 

The quote that you seem to take exception to was used in a particular context which is now missing from this thread. Faithlessdevotee found Jayaradhe's post objectionable and posted some inapporpriate language so his message was deleted. The jest of his remarks (as I understood them) was that if this is what spiritual life is all about you guys must be crazy. Of course I am taking some liberties here, but that is the meaning of his remarks as I understood them.

 

The thought of someone crying miserably throughout the day and night for their whole life seems certainly less than attractive and most people would want to avoid what ever it is that caused such a condition to occur. However, strange as it may seem - that is the ideal of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Looks miserable from the outside - but is pure transcendental nectar - I am sure that you have some taste of this.

 

Material life looks so enticing. Youth, beauty, wealth, excitation of the senses - on and on and on...... where it stops? Somebody knows. That person is none other than Sri Krsna Reality the Beautiful.

 

I hope that clears up any misunderstanding you had with regard to my post, otherwise I might suggest wearing sunglasses when you read so that the grey shades will show up better.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[melvin]

Dear Leyh,

If your friend, Thomas Merton, and

the rest does not know where they

are headed for, might as well sing

you this song.

 

Life is not at all that bad my friend,

HMMMM.

If you believe in yourself if you be-

lieve there`s someone who walks thru

life with you.

You`ll never be alone.

Just learn to reach out and open your

heart.

Lift up your hands to God(Krishna) and

He will show you THE WAY(Krishnaloka).

 

And He said cast your burdens upon Me,

those who are heavily-laden.

Come to me all of you who are tired,

of carrying heavy loads.

For the yoke I will give you is easy,

and my burden is LIGHT(Illumination).

Come to Me and I`ll give you rest.

 

Come to me and I`ll give you (the)rest.

 

Source: The Holy Bible

[jijaji]

quote:

The reality is that spiritual life looks miserable on the outside but is filled with incredible, indescribable nectar on the inside. Material life is just exactly the opposite. It looks wonderful on the outside but it is rotten to the core.

 

jijaji:

Sounds kind of black & white....

 

Me thinks it's 'A Question of Balance'....

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 10-22-2001).]

[Guest guest]

With all due respect, your continued nonsensical posts meant to demean and discredit Gaudiya Vaishnavism only serve to demean and discredit your own good self. (Audarya lila)

 

Gaudiya-vaisnavas are proselytizing all over the world. For certain they should expect some reactions besides humble reverences. Here we are in a discussion forum and we are free to discuss the philosophical tenants that you had pointed out. So, defend your own points if you can by direct refuting your opponents’ arguments.

 

Some really may find great pleasure in trying to discridit all that they had held as true when they were a 'Gaudiya Vaishanava' as they had noticed that these ‘truths’ were but concoctions and fallacies without any serious basis.

 

 

[valaya]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

With all due respect, your continued nonsensical posts meant to demean and discredit Gaudiya Vaishnavism only serve to demean and discredit your own good self. (Audarya lila)

 

Gaudiya-vaisnavas are proselytizing all over the world. For certain they should expect some reactions besides humble reverences. Here we are in a discussion forum and we are free to discuss the philosophical tenants that you had pointed out. So, defend your own points if you can by direct refuting your opponents’ arguments.

 

Some really may find great pleasure in trying to discridit all that they had held as true when they were a 'Gaudiya Vaishanava' as they had noticed that these ‘truths’ were but concoctions and fallacies without any serious basis.

 

 

Surely feeling gleeful while aware of others' misfortune and delighting in provocation is not the way of a devotee or a medical doctor, Satyaraja das prabhu. Please try and accept this as brotherly concern from one who often finds himself equally afflicted.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-23-2001).]