Complaints cont...

[Guest guest]

Valaya: Krsna (Hari) has taken everything away from Valaya and left him wretched, forlorn and alone in this world. However, Valaya has been blessed by Srimati Radharani Herself for which he can only be humbly grateful.

 

Satyaraj: Oh, really!? He did not take your liquor’s bottles, did He? Find yourself a place in Hari’s lila here and maybe you will get a place in His lilas hereafter. False renunciation is very common up here. At least be sincere: Did Hari has taken you everything or you have falsely disdained this world?

 

[Arvindaksh das]

Originally posted by Arvindaksh das:

Shri Shri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah !!!

 

Dear Satyaraja Prabhu,

 

I have been educated in India. The very first lesson taught to a young child (6 year old) is Vidya dadati vinayam ....

This means when one gets little vidya or sublime knowledge he will get automatically in his heart vinayam or humility . You will agree vidya is definitely needed,even to read Sanskrit leave alone venture into Vedas. Therefore one who claims to have vidya and does not have vinayam in his actions is definitely over-claiming.

 

Your thoughts ....

 

 

Dear Satyaraj Prabhu and dear Shvu Prabhu,

 

We are waiting for your thoughts & beliefs ....

 

 

[Guest guest]

Jndas: That's a simple question. Which caste do you identify with, and how do you justify your studying shruti? It has nothing to do with my faith or not. It is a question directed towards yourself and your faith. You have rejected the process of sadhana and initiation given by your gaudiya guru. Keeping that in mind, how do you justify your study of shruti? If your gayatri-diksha is invalid and bogus, then you are an equally bogus brahmana, making you an outcaste to the varnas. How do you justify yourself studying the shruti, which you say may not be studied by shudras?

 

Satyaraj: Your question is quite stupid and devoid of common sense.

 

Brahmins are not created by the process of sadhana and initiation given by a Gaudiya-guru. Visvamitra wasn’t actually a Gaudiya-vaisnava devoted to harinama and practices extracted from Pañcaratras. Any way if you argue that if I consider my gayatri-diksha as invalid and bogus, then I also should consider you an equally bogus brahmana, making you an outcaste to the varnas, as actually everyone else do consider. So, how do you justify yourself studying the shruti, which you say may not be studied by shudras? Did you have born as a Brahmin?

 

Remember that only Sri-viasnavas and some Gaudiyas are worried with braminhood. No other Vaisnava sect is worried with external and bogus consideration of caste to classify those who are fit to study sruti or not. One’s own tendencies and behavior establish his varna. Not a bogus initiation or some one else’s opinion.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

Arvindaksh: I have been educated in India. The very first lesson taught to a young child (6 year old) is Vidya dadati vinayam .... This means when one gets little vidya or sublime knowledge he will get automatically in his heart vinayam or humility .

 

Satyaraj: What a show of humility! By stating that you have been educated in India for certain you are trying to convince us that this is a very great thing. This statement of yours is clearly exposing that you did not get even a little of this vidya.

 

In my opinion to be educated in India only means to learn to eat with hands like a monkey and to pass urine and stool on streets. Nothing better than to be an animal of two legs! Try some USA’s University next time!

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by shvu:

 

* Talasiga, if you are planning to do what

I think you will do, please don't...

because we have already done it twice.

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Getting paranoid in your youth ?

Hey kiddo !

Your nappy is over your mouth

and I'll change it as often as I have to

(but never in advance)

 

 

Yawn

zzzzzzzzzzz

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-28-2001).]

[shvu]

 

Getting paranoid in your youth ?

Hey kiddo !

Your nappy is over your mouth

and I'll change it as often as I have to

(but never in advance)

kiddo? I am 29, dude. Paranoia? I just thought we would skip a whole round of discussion that we have already done twice.

 

But thanks, anyway

 

Cheers

 

[animesh]

Satyaraja ji: In my opinion to be educated in India only means to learn to eat with hands like a monkey and to pass urine and stool on streets. Nothing better than to be an animal of two legs! Try some USA’s University next time!

 

I also despise the act of passing urine and stool on streets. But could you tell as to why eating with hand should be considered bad?

Your argument is that monkeys also eat this way. So what? Monkeys eat vegetables. Does it mean that all those who eat vegetables are like monkeys? Please tell me a valid reason as to why eating with hands should be considered bad.

 

 

[shvu]

 

Dear Satyaraja Prabhu,

 

I have been educated in India. The very first lesson taught to a young child (6 year old) is Vidya dadati vinayam ....

This means when one gets little vidya or sublime knowledge he will get automatically in his heart vinayam or humility . You will agree vidya is definitely needed,even to read Sanskrit leave alone venture into Vedas. Therefore one who claims to have vidya and does not have vinayam in his actions is definitely over-claiming.

 

Your thoughts ....

 

 

 

 

--

 

Dear Satyaraj Prabhu and dear Shvu Prabhu,

 

We are waiting for your thoughts & beliefs ....

Dear Aravindaksha dasa prabhu,

 

Same pinch, I have been educated in India too. I think everyone is aware of the importance of Vinayam. My question is, why have you raised the point of vinayam on this thread? I fail to see the reason, which is why I requested you to explain.

 

Is it possible, you feel people who disagree and quibble, lack vinayam?

 

Cheers

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by shvu:

kiddo? I am 29, dude.

 

 

yeah thats right

and still screaming "dude"

hey somebody

please give this kid some goat's dude

 

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by animesh:

But could you tell as to why

eating with hand should be considered bad?

 

Personally speaking

some of the things I have seen people

eating in certain parts of the world

I would not even touch with my feet

 

 

[Guest guest]

animesh: But could you tell as to why eating with hand should be considered bad?

 

Satyaraj: It cannot be considered bad, but nasty. I personally feel repugnancy in that activity, as many other Western people like me would do. Can you avoid this feeling? This is a cultural aspect that may cause an impact into the relationship between us.

 

animesh: Monkeys eat vegetables.

 

Satyaraj: Yes, monkeys eat vegetables and they also eat worms, louses, fleas, and so on. Haven’t you seen them doing it? Are you postulating a monkey diet?

 

[shvu]

 

animesh: But could you tell as to why eating with hand should be considered bad?

Satyaraj: It cannot be considered bad, but nasty. I personally feel repugnancy in that activity, as many other Western people like me would do. Can you avoid this feeling? This is a cultural aspect that may cause an impact into the relationship between us.

I know many westerners who dislike this habit of eating with hands. That is just the upbringing. But westerners too eat with their hands, foodstuff that cannot be eaten with a fork or spoon. Bread, sandwiches, bagels, fries, etc to name a few.

 

Indian food like roti, rice, etc are best eaten with hands. The simplest way to mix rice and sambar, is using fingers. One of my friends in India eats Vada with a spoon. I would finish 2 vadas in seconds, while he used to take several minutes.

 

People wash their hands before and after eating. So an indepth analysis justifies eating with hands as a clean and sensible habit.

 

Cheers

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Remember that only Sri-viasnavas and some Gaudiyas are worried with braminhood. No other Vaisnava sect is worried with external and bogus consideration of caste to classify those who are fit to study sruti or not.

This discussion seems to be pointless, as you just flip and flop from one stance to the next before I can blink. You are the one who brought up caste considerations in regards to studying the shruti. Now that it has been pointed out that you have no varna (caste), and that you have no gotra, you suddenly object to mentioning caste. Shruti must be studied under a guru, and that study requires initiation into mantras. You have no guru, no caste, no initiation, and you even lack respect for the Vedic culture.

 

What shruti have you studied? The answer is, "the shruti available for $3.95 in Barnes and Nobles." Keep going to the book store and buying your shruti books.

 

You think you are beyond the regulations of scripture, but in reality you have yet to rise up to them. Transcending the modes is not done by going below them. It is through sadhana that one will transcend.

 

By the way, are you still following Vallabha, or have you flopped from that stance as well?

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

People wash their hands before and after eating. So an indepth analysis justifies eating with hands as a clean and sensible habit.

Some cultures lack the very basic concepts of cleanliness and purity. They will eat and wipe their hands on a cloth, thinking it is now clean and pure; or they think that by using toilet paper after passing they are clean; or they think that taking bath can be done once a week (just visit France!). Then some of these people will point fingers at India and say, "Ewww! They are eating with their hands like monkeys! They are eating off of leaves! These people are barbarians."

 

Sometimes such people even want to study the shruti. They lack knowledge of cleanliness, but they think they possess some high knowledge of the self. This is why study of the shruti is barred for Shudras and those below the Vedic culture.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Jnadas: You are the one who brought up caste considerations in regards to studying the shruti.

 

Satyaraj: No, I did not. You simply did not understand my point in the thread that you had opened to discuss that subject matter. I simply told you that Baladeva’s consideration on the meaning of the word sudra was, ‘someone who is grief-stricken.” Not any other aspect, such as the general caste classification. You did not give any answer to my post in that thread, as obviously you could not done due to your very limited intelligence and hippie-like understanding.

 

Jnadas: Shruti must be studied under a guru, and that study requires initiation into mantras. You have no guru, no caste, no initiation, and you even lack respect for the Vedic culture.

 

Satyaraj: In other words, in your opinion I am unfit to study them, as if I would do it your hidden agenda of misleading proselytism could be disturbed. Take your opinion for yourself, as I am not worried with it and I am not asking you for any advise and guidance. Thanx!

 

BTW, does Vedic culture means to pass urine and stool on streets? Or to eat only with hands?

 

Jnadas: It is through sadhana that one will transcend

 

Satyaraj: For certain you did not transcend them, as you cannot be considered as a nirguna-bhakta. You are very far away of this position and you are only a hypocrite trying to place yourself in an untrue level. So, why one should follow your sadhana as it is obviously inefficient?

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Here is what you had said. Again, let me point out that you brought up the caste consideration in regards to studying the shruti.

 

Satyaraja said:

By your statement it is clear that you never read any Veda. According to sruti text to read Veda one should not be a sudra.

To which I replied by asking what caste you belong to. The answer to the question was that you had no caste nor gotra. Now can't anyone here see the irony in this discussion.

 

You say, "The shruti says that a shudra can't study the Vedas"

 

Someone who has no caste, nor gotra, is telling us what the shruti says... and what it says is that the person speaking isn't allowed to study it!

 

That is why the natural question came up as to what justifies your study of shruti. You demand for shruti evidence to be given to you on a plate with a spoon and fork, but according to shruti no one should speak Veda to you. How can the shruti evidence be delivered to you?

 

My question still remains:

 

Are you still following Vallabha, or have you flopped from that stance as well?

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Maitreya]

Originally posted by jndas:

That's a simple question. Which caste do you identify with, and how do you justify your studying shruti? It has nothing to do with my faith or not. It is a question directed towards yourself and your faith. You have rejected the process of sadhana and initiation given by your gaudiya guru. Keeping that in mind, how do you justify your study of shruti? If your gayatri-diksha is invalid and bogus, then you are an equally bogus brahmana, making you an outcaste to the varnas. How do you justify yourself studying the shruti, which you say may not be studied by shudras?

 

Simple question I think.

 

 

 

Simple question it is.But as we have witnessed from the response that followed not one Master Morph is willing to answer.

 

M.M. Satyraja,

Your avoidance of questions and your constant change of positions is noticed by all.

 

You do it to avoid the weaknesses in your arguments and by doing so just cause them to become more noticable.Kind of like a child hiding in the middle of a room by covering his eyes.Cute but not effective.

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

Jndas: Here is what you had said. Again, let me point out that you brought up the caste consideration in regards to studying the shruti.

 

Satyaraj: Oh, come on! Don’t twist my words at every step! This discussion is coming from long ago, it is nothing new. Now you are trying to mislead people by pointing out some words that I wrote in this thread, and even so, out of context.

 

Jndas: Someone who has no caste, nor gotra, is telling us what the shruti says... and what it says is that the person speaking isn't allowed to study it!

 

Satyaraj: That is your delirious inference on someone else’s position. For certain you did not study even Baladeva, or Visvanatha as you consider your self-made acarya as complete. Even Prabhupada would say that one’s own tendencies and behavior establish his varna. But definitively you have no intelligence even to understand Prabhupada’s childish precepts. Therefore you prefer to appreciate one’s grota, seminal lineage, fire sacrifice, etc. What can be done?

 

Jndas: Are you still following Vallabha, or have you flopped from that stance as well?

 

Satyaraj: Cult members like you are always very divisionist. They think; “If some one is not in my sect he is my foe!” You cannot conciliate the idea of to add instructions and never to discriminate your teachers. Yes, I am still trying to follow Vallabha, as well as Caitanya, Jesus, Ramakrishna, Kabir, Mirabai, San Juan de La Cruz, Tulasidas, and many others. What about you? Would you accept even Caitanya’s teachings if they were given by a sudra from Brazil? For certain you wouldn’t, as you would ask him about his grota and so on.

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

BTW, does Vedic culture means to pass urine and stool on streets? Or to eat only with hands?

 

Satyaraja Dasa, you are exposing your ignorance. Last week the government of UK built open urinals in the streets of London as men are 'relieving' themselves on streets. So, it is not an Indian phenomenon. This is something that arises out of lack of even basic infrastructure.

 

It has nothing to do with Vedic culture. Unless you have studied some 'shrutis', hitherto unknown to the world, that justifies such acts.

 

Dr. Radhakrishnan was once asked by the British press:

 

"Sir, while the western world eats with forks and knives why is that Indians still eat with hands? Is it not barbaric?"

 

He replied: "Eating with forks and knives is like making love through an interpreter."

 

As far hygiene goes, it is better to eat with hands provided you wash it before and after eating. Your hands only go into your own mouth. On the other hand, that spoon went into the mouths of so many, some stricken with TB, some AIDS, some who hadn't brushed for days, some who just vomitted (no, I am not hinting at your postings) etc...

 

I find your standards of hygiene repugnant.

 

 

[valaya]

Originally posted by shvu:

kiddo? I am 29, dude. Paranoia? I just thought we would skip a whole round of discussion that we have already done twice.

 

But thanks, anyway

 

Cheers

29, eh? Well that explains it all! You're just a young WHIPPERSNAPPER! Now don't make me come out there and give you what for with my cane...! RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-28-2001).]

[Guest guest]

karthik_v: I find your standards of hygiene repugnant.

 

Satyaraj: Yes, pretty good! This is a cultural aspect that may cause an impact into the relationship between us. Would you make a suicide attack against my home due this divergence?

 

(As you may known, most of people here in Brazil cannot see any difference between Moors and Hindus and are waiting that USA would punish them all! Do you think that this confusion is caused by their turbants?)

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by shvu:

Food is eaten by hand or with a fork/spoon in the west, based on convenience. The same applieds to Indians. If an indian wants to eat jamoon or rasmalai, he will use a spoon. It is a matter of convenience.

 

The real problem here, is the barbaric image of India that has been projected to the westerner. Anything that comes out of India is primitive, barbaric or mystical. If the Indian worships an idol of Krishna, he is into idol worship and is primitive. However if a x'tian worships an idol of Jesus, that somehow is not idol worship and is very sensible and intelligent. Don't ask them why. If they are asked such questions, you should watch their ears. The tips will turn red, and then the whole ear. Then the cheeks will turn red and you know you got them !

 

Cheers

Nice response SHVU. Yet it was in the year 1600 A.D. that the British representative of the Queen "submitted her humble request at the feet of the then Mughal king, seeking his permission to grant the Queen and her men the extraordinary honour of doing trade with India". In less than a few centuries down the line, in a calculated move, Macaulays and Max Muellers succeeded in denigating everything that is Indian. So subtly, that even we Indians don't realize it. Ample from the fact that we have honoured such a person with Max Mueller Bhavan all over India. What irony?

 

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

karthik_v: I find your standards of hygiene repugnant.

 

Satyaraj: Yes, pretty good! This is a cultural aspect that may cause an impact into the relationship between us. Would you make a suicide attack against my home due this divergence?

Satyaraj:

I thought your knowledge of scriptures is lopsided. Now it is apparent that even your knowledge of Indian history and culture are shallow. For facts, Hindus have not been known to issue fatwa against others nor have they launched suicide attacks. So, please rest in peace. Thou shall not fear any fidayeen attack from me. Further, unlike the semitic religions, Sanatana dharma allows for dissension. So, feel free to dissent, even sacrificing logic, should that make you feel good!!! Anyway, just be reminded that I found your idea on eating habits repugnant..not that I found the idea of eating with spoons repugnant.

 

(As you may known, most of people here in Brazil cannot see any difference between Moors and Hindus and are waiting that USA would punish them all! Do you think that this confusion is caused by their turbants?)

It is amazing that your thoughts can vacillate between topics totally unconnected. I am struggling to establish a nexus between turbans and spoons, in vain.

For most people in the USA, the world begins on the east coast of the US and ends on the west coast. They are oblivious to what happens outside. That is why we have seen such a horrible foreign policy and its consequences. From your statement it looks like Brazil is same.

 

I think the confusion is not caused by the turban..it is caused by ignorance. Even if the Sikhs take off the turban, still every Asian, Indian or Arab, could be perceived as the same by closeted minds. Well how much distinct can I look from my neighbour? After all, we both have 2 hands, 2 legs and a head (sane or insane) on our shoulders!!

 

 

[FaithlessDevotee]

Wow let's waste more time argueing (sarcasm).

 

 

And no, I didn't actually waste my time reading through all this c***.

[valaya]

All this talk of hygiene, eating habits, and so on appears to confirm an obsessive-compulsive behavioural personality disorder.

 

That, along with a completely irrational pride that cannot allow even the possibility of anyone else on these forums having realizations that he so obviously cannot, might explain his adamantly offensive nature as desperate defensive posturing in an increasingly futile attempt to avoid facing the inevitable truth, which he unwittingly reveals to everyone but himself. In other words, the poor man has driven himself nuts, batty, round the bend, loony-tunes, and irretrievably whacko!

 

Perhaps gentle sympathy is warranted more than confrontation since that only enables him in feeding this pernicious mental disorder which lies at the root of his confused behavior. Comments, prabhus?

 

valaya RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-28-2001).]