valaya Posted September 28, 2001 Report Share Posted September 28, 2001 Originally posted by FaithlessDevotee: Wow let's waste more time argueing (sarcasm). And no, I didn't actually waste my time reading through all this c***. Dear Faithless, I hope this forum answers your question whether anyone here might be able to help you. Actions really do speak louder than words, don't they? If you can possibly avoid this network of bewilderment in favor of educating yourself and establishing some solid foundation for the future, I'd highly recommend doing so. It's much easier while you're still young. Leave God realization to His Divine Grace, which may be provided more personally in the form of Sri Guru somewhere down the line. Meanwhile, try to believe in yourself, understanding that everything is already deep inside your heart-of-hearts and will be revealed as appropriate. Later you can return here and save us all from ourselves! HARIBOL! HARIBOL! valaya RR [This message has been edited by valaya (edited 09-28-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2001 Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 karthik_v: I find your standards of hygiene repugnant. Satyaraj: Yes, pretty good! This is a cultural aspect that may cause an impact into the relationship between us. Would you make a suicide attack against my home due this divergence? (As you may known, most of people here in Brazil cannot see any difference between Moors and Hindus and are waiting that USA would punish them all! Do you think that this confusion is caused by their turbants?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted September 29, 2001 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 Food is eaten by hand or with a fork/spoon in the west, based on convenience. The same applieds to Indians. If an indian wants to eat jamoon or rasmalai, he will use a spoon. It is a matter of convenience. The real problem here, is the barbaric image of India that has been projected to the westerner. Anything that comes out of India is primitive, barbaric or mystical. If the Indian worships an idol of Krishna, he is into idol worship and is primitive. However if a x'tian worships an idol of Jesus, that somehow is not idol worship and is very sensible and intelligent. Don't ask them why. If they are asked such questions, you should watch their ears. The tips will turn red, and then the whole ear. Then the cheeks will turn red and you know you got them ! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animesh Posted September 29, 2001 Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 Satyaraj ji: It cannot be considered bad, but nasty. I personally feel repugnancy in that activity, as many other Western people like me would do. Can you avoid this feeling? This is a cultural aspect that may cause an impact into the relationship between us. I am not trying to say that you change your behaviour. There is nothing wrong in eating with spoon and fork. Satyaraj ji: Yes, monkeys eat vegetables and they also eat worms, louses, fleas, and so on. Haven’t you seen them doing it? Are you postulating a monkey diet? I fail to understand as to when you will learn simple rules of logic. If conclusions are made based on an assumption and those conclusions are found to be false, then the assumption is also false. This is "reductio ad absurdum". You must be knowing this. Your argument was that eating with hands should be considered bad because monkeys eat that way. Assumption: It is despisable to do what monkeys do. One conclusion based on the above assumption: It is despisable to be vegetarians. Hope, it is clear as to why I gave the example of monkeys eating vegetables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvindaksh das Posted September 29, 2001 Report Share Posted September 29, 2001 I am a Brahmin, and for certain I am mastered in all srutis as you may witness by yourself! Shri Shri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah !!! Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said: "A devotee of Shri Krishna born in a low caste is adored by all, while a brahmin averse to His worship is not liked by devotees, despite his high lineage." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 karthik_v: Further, unlike the semitic religions, Sanatana dharma allows for dissension. So, feel free to dissent, even sacrificing logic, should that make you feel good!!! Satyaraj: Yes, sanatana-dharma allows dissension. But now some people are proselytizing a kind of sanatana-dharma mixed with Semitic religions. They introduced some new concepts from Semitic religions such as ‘back to Godhead,” and even are calling out their opponents rascals, demons, atheists, karmis, and so on. They also introduced the idea that Maya is something different than Hari, and that that is a kind of evil’s power that should be combated. This is purest semitism, just changing the name Satan by Maya. They are even travelling all around the world to try mass conversions, just like Christian missionaries. Therefore I personally cannot see too much differences between your present Hindu belief and Moor’s. karthik_v: Anyway, just be reminded that I found your idea on eating habits repugnant..not that I found the idea of eating with spoons repugnant. Satyaraj: In these forums I only had stated that I am vegetarian, in spite of my defense of some non-veg meals according to Vedanta. So, if you found my ideas on eating habits repugnant, for certain you are living on air, like some snakes, aren’t you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 My dearmost Satyaraja Dasa If you be vegetarian Where is the danger in touching the food with your hands - Do garbanzos bite ? And what of urinating and defecating on the ground ? Would you have it that they be emitted into the high air ? Why , where then would we place our farts ? Don't you know that the Vedanta is silent about common sense ? It is common sense that keeps the world and Vedanta is what ends it .......... ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasanudas Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by talasiga: My dearmost Satyaraja Dasa If you be vegetarian Where is the danger in touching the food with your hands - Do garbanzos bite ? And what of urinating and defecating on the ground ? Would you have it that they be emitted into the high air ? Why , where then would we place our farts ? Don't you know that the Vedanta is silent about common sense ? It is common sense that keeps the world and Vedanta is what ends it .......... Thank God for gravity. Who would want to live in that high air space? The hot air we pass would'nt know if it were coming or going. What argument can defeat silence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by dasanudas: What argument can defeat silence? Yes So many will argue about it None may argue with it The glorious moon rises in silence The oceans do sigh in wonder The sands on the shore are singing Do you hear the world ringing ? . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: But now some people are proselytizing a kind of sanatana-dharma..... They are even travelling all around the world to try mass conversions, just like Christian missionaries. Satyaraja Dasa: Well, if you thought that Gaudiya Vaishnavas started the process of proselytization, then check back with history. Ramanujacarya did that. Prior to him Adi Sankacarya did that. Milinda did that. Gautama Buddha before him. All of them have 1 thing in common with Gaudiya Vaishnavas..they are inducing change of faith..rather they give faith and knowledge to those who seek it. Change of faith is radically different from induced conversions carried out by the missionaries. Hope you can appreciate the difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted September 30, 2001 Report Share Posted September 30, 2001 Originally posted by karthik_v: Satyaraja Dasa: Well, if you thought that Gaudiya Vaishnavas started the process of proselytization, then check back with history. Ramanujacarya did that. Prior to him Adi Sankacarya did that. Milinda did that. Gautama Buddha before him. All of them have 1 thing in common with Gaudiya Vaishnavas..they are inducing change of faith..rather they give faith and knowledge to those who seek it. Change of faith is radically different from induced conversions carried out by the missionaries. Hope you can appreciate the difference between the two. One is motivated by divine loving compassion while the other is due to the desire to attain heavenly or earthly rewards and, no, I doubt if the difference can be appreciated in this case. RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 karthik_v: All of them have 1 thing in common with Gaudiya Vaishnavas..they are inducing change of faith..rather they give faith and knowledge to those who seek it. Satyaraj: Yes, these religious preceptors were dealing mainly with faith. As faith is a by-product of the material mind, faith may be voluble like the mind. Faith may find a religion’s god, who is dual and temporary. That is not Hari, the non-dual and eternal God who is the philosophy’s God. That God is not attained by faith, He is attained by His free will, and the Vedic process of neti neti is the prescribed sadhana to help His realization (sastrayonitvat). This Vedic God is worshiped with one’s intelligence (see Vedanta 2.3.26). Definitively this is not the process that you are proselytizing. Therefore you aren’t introducing the Vedic process, but a religious process that is mainly Tantric and not Vedic at all. You are only doing false propaganda of your Vedic origin and nothing else. karthik_v: Change of faith is radically different from induced conversions carried out by the missionaries. Hope you can appreciate the difference between the two. Satyaraj: Yes, specially in India people use to be converted by missionaries but they don’t change their faith. Their minds are kept in the old superstitions from their ancient religion, and they cannot be considered really converted to another faith. Anyway, what’s the value of these changes of faith? Are they the cause of Hari’s realization? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 Talasigaji: Don't you know that the Vedanta is silent about common sense ? Satyaraj: Yes, you are quite right. The common sense is that an embodied creature might eat and discard alimentary rests. An intelligent person should not waist his time seeking after so many religious rules and regulations on that elementary subject matter. The Vedanta is meant for persons who had surpassed this religious stage of life where no common sense is present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 Talasigaji: The glorious moon rises in silence The oceans do sigh in wonder The sands on the shore are singing Do you hear the world ringing ? Satyaraj: It is said that some muktas can really hear the “Symphony of the Spheres.” That’s to say, they are hearing the indescribable melody of Hari’s lilas of creation. That is indeed a good question: “Do you hear the world ringing ?” As I cannot, it is clear that I am not a mukta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasanudas Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 The clarion call Hello, is anyone there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasanudas Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 With faith and a generous conviction in this movement of Mahaprabhu it is easily approached for all beginners. From that, many other aspects of the infinite will manifest to our understanding. It will put an end to all the troubles I am experiencing now and may have to experience in the future. Faith is the only instrument for the finite to measure the infinite. To survey the infinite, all other methods are futile. Faith is the most spacious substance within us. It can cover a long distance. In the infinite what faith can we have in faith? We fear blind faith, yet in the infinite, the impossible becomes possible. Everything is possible, but only faith has the possibility of connecting us with the infinite while all other methods are useless. Sraddha can go a long distance and we shall be able to feel and conceive that faith is not merely imaginary. It has its tangible position, a most efficient position within us and when we can disconnect from all phases of perceptual experience, we can live in faith alone. When all the wealth of our experience deceives us and makes treachery with us, our faith will save us. The whole world of our experience will vanish one day with the final wholesale dissolution. janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha- dosanudarsanam Bg. 13.9. But faith will remain, faithfully attending us, that is the innate thing with our soul. And with the wholesale dissolution of our body, mind and senses, the whole world of our experience will go where? No one knows. The sun, the moon, the ether, the air, everything will vanish in wholesale dissolution. Only faith will live, even at that stage. Faith is eternal substance within us and we are told that with the favorable circumstances of faith we can go back to God, back home. Back to home sweet home! Such highest prospect is given to us who are in this world of mortality, which is a burial and cremation ground. Here everything is bound to be buried. “The boast of heraldry, the pomp of power, All that beauty, all that wealth e’re gave, Awaits alike the inevitable hour; The paths of glory lead but to the grave.” - Gray’s Eulogy This is the world of experience, everything leads but to the grave. But faith is not treacherous, it will remain within, with the soul and grant hope, prospect and sustenance. And what kind of sustenance? Home comfort. When there is the proposal of such an alternative, who would be such a fool to run after the experiences of this so called ‘civilized’ atomic world? Sense experience and material science are all merely the jaws of death. SSM Thru surrendering to the transcendental realizations of an enlightened soul we too can awaken to the beautiful reality of Sri Haris all merciful existence. Our whole divine prospect is to be found in the living word emanating from the heart of Sri Guru. In their Grace we will find everything we are lacking, if we truly want it, otherwise He will allow us to continue living out our long conditioned illusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: It is said that some muktas can really hear the “Symphony of the Spheres.” That’s to say, they are hearing the indescribable melody of Hari’s lilas of creation. That is indeed a good question: “Do you hear the world ringing ?” Yes, they hear the world ringing But do they answer it ? Methinks, they are otherwise Engaged..... ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 1, 2001 Report Share Posted October 1, 2001 Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa: It is said that some muktas can really hear the “Symphony of the Spheres.” ....... As I cannot, it is clear that I am not a mukta. !!! compare with:- "It is said that some humans can see the aura. As I cannot, it is clear that I am not a human." Animesh, is this what is called a "false syllogism" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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