Sri Chaitanya in the Bhavishya Purana

[Audarya lila]

If you look at my post made on 10/5 from Golden Volcano you will see that Jiva Goswami concurs with Rupa Goswami as to the divinity of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Here is a verse written by Svarupa Damodara I found in the same book (I will try to find the original texts that the verse from Sri Jiva and this one from Svarupa Damodara come from as they are not cited in Golden Volcano):

 

Introspection means to know oneself. Consciousness can know consciousness. And just as one can feel his own body, or consciousness can conceive of itself, ecstasy can also taste ecstasy. This is confirmed by Svarupa Damodara Prabhu, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's personal secretary, who is considered to be Lalita-sakhi, the nearest friend of Srimati Radharani in the pastimes of Krishna. He describes Sri Chaitanyadeva:

 

radha krsna-pranaya-vikritir hladini-saktir asmad

ekatmanav api bhuvi pura deha-bhedam gatau tau

caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad dvayam caikyam apam

radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalitam naumi krsna-svarupam

 

"I worship Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who is Krsna himself, enriched with the emotions and radiance of Srimati Radharani. As the predominating and predominated moities, Radha and Krishna are eternally one, with separate individual identities. Now they have again united as Sri Krsna Chaitanya. This inconceivable transformation of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving potency has arisen from the loving affairs of Radha and Krsna."

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[Guest guest]

Audarya lila: This is written in his Vidagda Madhava - there goes your assertion that Rupa Goswami has never written about the divinity of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

 

Satyaraj: This verse is part of a mangalacana (Vidagdha-madhava 1.2), and not actually part o the work itself. As you might be aware, in magalacarana the author use to praise his guru and guru-varga with statements like that, meaning only the guru is as good as Hari Himself.

 

For certain no intelligent person would accept a verse from a mangalacara as a proof of an avatara.

 

[Audarya lila]

Quite frankly Satyaraja the reason I took so long to respond to your queries is that I don't find it useful to engage in this type of dialog with you. An intelligent person wouldn't?????? Gee, now you want to insult all the followers of Mahaprabhu as unintelligent - imagine that. First you say that Rupa Goswami has never written anything about the divinity of Mahaprabhu and when I present the actual facts you want to dismiss it. I also presented quotes by Jiva Goswami and Svarupa Damodara. Rather than admit that your thesis that Krsnadasa Kaviraja created his own theology that was/is at odds with the other prominent followers of Sri Chaitanya is wrong you want to simply continue with this foolish charade. I told you before - you don't find Gaudiya vaishnavism suits you fine - that's your choice. For myself Gaudiya Vaishnavism and the saints that have presented it to the world in the past and those that continue to do so in the present are my life and soul.

 

You will not find any genuine follower of Mahaprabhu that will give your thesis a second thought because it is so obviously flawed and unsupported by empirical evidence.

 

BTW, contrary to your 'belief', spiritual understanding is not dependent on intelligence. Anyone who has any hope of ever getting out of the quagmire of the mind and it's foolish attempt to capture divinity within it must cry out with all their heart for mercy. Sincerity is what matters and will be the key to unlocking the hidden secrets of the Vedas. When humility and sincerity are complete and honest the Lord reveals himself to such a sincere seeker through the agency of his representive - the Guru.

 

One last thing Satyaraja, if you cared to go a little deeper than merely trying to find every reason to support your concocted ideas, you would find in this particular case that the verse under consideration is not only from the mangalacaran but it is specifically the verse wherein Rupa Goswami glorifies his Istadevata.

 

The bottom line for you is that your rejection of Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami means rejection of Mahaprabhu and all his associates. There is no way around that and your attempts at trying to establish that Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami was alone in his assessment of the divinity of Mahaprabhu are nothing short of lunacy for anyone who has even a little familiarity with Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

I find this 'discussion' to be disingenuous and have nothing further to say on the matter.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[leyh]

Originally posted by Audarya lila:

Quite frankly Satyaraja the reason I took so long to respond to your queries is that I don't find it useful to engage in this type of dialog with you. An intelligent person wouldn't?????? Gee, now you want to insult all the followers of Mahaprabhu as unintelligent - imagine that. First you say that Rupa Goswami has never written anything about the divinity of Mahaprabhu and when I present the actual facts you want to dismiss it. I also presented quotes by Jiva Goswami and Svarupa Damodara. Rather than admit that your thesis that Krsnadasa Kaviraja created his own theology that was/is at odds with the other prominent followers of Sri Chaitanya is wrong you want to simply continue with this foolish charade. I told you before - you don't find Gaudiya vaishnavism suits you fine - that's your choice. For myself Gaudiya Vaishnavism and the saints that have presented it to the world in the past and those that continue to do so in the present are my life and soul.

 

You will not find any genuine follower of Mahaprabhu that will give your thesis a second thought because it is so obviously flawed and unsupported by empirical evidence.

 

BTW, contrary to your 'belief', spiritual understanding is not dependent on intelligence. Anyone who has any hope of ever getting out of the quagmire of the mind and it's foolish attempt to capture divinity within it must cry out with all their heart for mercy. Sincerity is what matters and will be the key to unlocking the hidden secrets of the Vedas. When humility and sincerity are complete and honest the Lord reveals himself to such a sincere seeker through the agency of his representive - the Guru.

 

One last thing Satyaraja, if you cared to go a little deeper than merely trying to find every reason to support your concocted ideas, you would find in this particular case that the verse under consideration is not only from the mangalacaran but it is specifically the verse wherein Rupa Goswami glorifies his Istadevata.

 

The bottom line for you is that your rejection of Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami means rejection of Mahaprabhu and all his associates. There is no way around that and your attempts at trying to establish that Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami was alone in his assessment of the divinity of Mahaprabhu are nothing short of lunacy for anyone who has even a little familiarity with Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

I find this 'discussion' to be disingenuous and have nothing further to say on the matter.

 

Hare Krsna

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

Audarya:

Why waste your time with Satyaraja dasa? In the Narada Bhakti Sutras,Narada Muni instructs that:"One should not indulge in argumentative debate." (Sutra 74) It seems clear that Satyaraja dasa is only interested in egoistic arguments.Don't take his bait...

 

 

[jijaji]

quotes from Vaishnava Faith & Movement..

S.K. De;

 

quote:

The theology that is attributed to Him (Sri Chaitanya) by Krishnadas is clearly the theology of a later day, in which Krishnadas himself was severly trained. This is, however, not the impression given by Murari-gupta. Vrndavana-das and other biographiers of the Navadvipa circle, who avoid the exaggerated scholastic colouring and enlarge more upon Chaitanya's ecstatic devotion and power of working miracles. It must not also be forgotten that the significance of Chaitany's teaching lies not so much in his special interpretation of this or that text, but in the reality and force of his inner spiritual experience, which gave him an extraordonary power over the minds of men.

 

Quote; (after he gave up his Tol)

The scholarly pursuits of a Pandit, the pride of learning, the zest for dialectic disputations - all passed out of his (Sri Chaitanya's)life, which now began to move in a new atmosphere of entirely different interests,. Outside the Srimad Bhagavata, the newly discovered Brahma-samhita, the Samgita-nataka of Ramananda, and the devotional lyrics of Lilasuka, Jayadeva, Vidyapati and Chandidasa, he appears to have relished next to nothing. It is misdirected zeal which invests him with the false glory of scholastic eminence; His true greatness lies in other directions, and his power over men came from other sources.

 

qoute:

It is indeed difficult to say how much of the elaborate theologising, which is piously put in his mouth, was actually uttered by him; for his reported utterances are in fact faithful summaries of the highly scholastic texts of the Vrndavana Gosvamis themselves, who, as leisured recluses, could devote their keenly trained minds to the construction of elaborate system. In chapter after chapter of the Chaitanya Charitamra of Krishna Das, Chaitanya is credited with stupendous sastric learning, highly philosophical discources, great scholastic ingenuity, marvels of interpretation in expoundimg finely finished theological and rhetorical systems of Bhakti; but the general impression, given by the orthodox accounts themselves, of Chaitanya's life of continous and absorbing devotional ectasies, as well as his own disclaimer (explained as the result of his humility) of all such pretensions, certainly throw considerable doubt upon his personal responsability in such scholastic pursuits.

 

quote:

The scholary and theologically minded Krishnadas kaviraja loves to depict Chaitanya as a scholar and founder of a school of theology, devotes a long and learned chapter of his biography to the detailed description of a systematic scholistic discourse between Ramananda and Chaitanya, lasting ten days and nights, on the whole theme of Bhakti. In the course of the conference the interlocutors quote and discuss, with the evident relish and precision of trained theologians, texts from the works of Rupa, Sanatana anf Jiva, and even from Krishnadas's own Govinda-lilamrta, all of which had not been yet written!

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-16-2001).]

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by leyh:

Audarya:

Why waste your time with Satyaraja dasa? In the Narada Bhakti Sutras,Narada Muni instructs that:"One should not indulge in argumentative debate." (Sutra 74) It seems clear that Satyaraja dasa is only interested in egoistic arguments.Don't take his bait...

 

Stone: I'm with leyh here. This is precisely the sort of argument that will not be resolved. Satyaraja's approach is (probably admittedly) antithetical to that of the Gaudiyas, which is beyond mundane reason. Moreover, he keeps changing the rules of his little challenges to Audarya for proof from Rupa that Chaitanya is Krishna Himself: first he asks where Rupa "states" this; when Audarya answered that, S. castigates him for not having shown where Rupa has "written" this; then, when Audarya shows him some place where Rupa has written such a statement, S. rejects that because it's in the mangalacharana and therefore not acceptable evidence, since (apparently) such statements are inherently hyperbolic in nature.

 

No matter what anyone writes, Satyaraja will change the rules so he "wins." Since his hubris has moved him to reject Gaudiya siddhanta and pramana, perhaps his efforts to bolster his jnani's identity would be more fruitful elsewhere.

 

We strive, our acharyas tell us, for jnana-sunya bhakti.

 

Babhru das

[jijaji]

 

Originally posted by jijaji:

 

 

The scholary and theologically minded Krishnadas kaviraja loves to depict Chaitanya as a scholar and founder of a school of theology, devotes a long and learned chapter of his biography to the detailed description of a systematic scholistic discourse between Ramananda and Chaitanya, lasting ten days and nights, on the whole theme of Bhakti. In the course of the conference the interlocutors quote and discuss, with the evident relish and precision of trained theologians, texts from the works of Rupa, Sanatana and Jiva, and even from Krishnadas's own Govinda-lilamrta, all of which had not been yet written!

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-17-2001).]

[jijaji]

Like the Chaitanya Bhagavat, the Chaitanya Charitamrta was written with a motive. The Gosvamis of Vrndanava, the seat of the exploits of Krishna, could not accept the theory of Krishna's manifestation at Navadivpa. They attached more importance to the worship of Krishna and Radha than to the worship of Krishna and Balaram. Lastly, they could not reconcile themselves to the idea that Krishna appeared as Chaitanya who was called Gauranga for his fair complexion.

Futher, according to the Navadivpa school, the worship of Chaitanya is the end in itself; while the Gosvamis preached that such a worship is the means to an end, which is the worship of Radha and Krishna.

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-17-2001).]

[valaya]

If Lord Chaitanya is seen simply as another appearance of Krsna or Vishnu, re-establishing religious principles (vaidhi) like any other avatara; rather than completely immersed in the mood of Sri Radha (raganuga), refusing to be identified as anything other than a devotee Himself and wishing only to distribute Her love unconditionally to everyone, the true essence of this `hidden avatara` remains lost in religion.

 

To actually realize His Divine Grace requires surrender to Her in Him with the faith of a raganuga bhakta, something few are immediately capable of, thus the attempts to vaidhify His teachings in an effort to distribute the chanting of the Holy Names more widely.

 

It behooves us all to delve deeply and become essence seekers as recommended by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Sridhara-deva Goswami Maharaja, otherwise there is the risk of becoming trapped in the negative trappings of evangelistic religion and similarly entangling others.

 

Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada spread the Holy Names world-wide as never before and established preaching centers and an international society so that the association of pure devotees would be readily available to all. He used so many `trappings` to great effect, thereby casting a very wide net indeed.

 

It is up to each of his followers to realize for themselves that Rupanuga means relating with Radha, not Krsna. He (Krsna) brings us to Her (Radha), not the other way around. It is She alone, as the internal spritual potency, that puts the devotion in devotees and enables pure devotional service.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-17-2001).]

[jijaji]

It must be remembered that Chaitanya Charitamrta of Krishnadas is not a Carita, but a Charitamrta, written more from the devotional than from the historical point of view.

 

It also must be remembered that it was written nearly 100 years after the passing of Sri Chaitanya, completed in the year 1537 saka or 1615 A.D..

 

And yes it was written as a means to bridge (if you will) the two schools of Gaudiya Vaishnavism that had existed up to that time.

 

The Navadvipa circle was represented by the works of Murari Gupta, Kavikarnapura, Locana Das and Jayananda, as well as the composers of Padas on Sri Chaitanya and of course Vrndavana Das.

 

They had their own theology which was somewhat different from that of the Vrndanava Gosvamis and Krishnadas.

 

The works of the Gosvamis and the Navadivpa devotees were, however, composed at about the same time, although the Navadvipa tradition probably originated earlier than the other.

 

If Vrndavana Das's inspiration came chiefly from the orthodox circle of Navadvipa, Krishnadas's inspiration came from the scholistic Gosvamis of Vrndanava and EACH in his own way throws intertesting light on different aspects on Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

The two works of Vrndavana Das and Krishnadasa, therefore, are in a sense complementary to each other as representing two distinct traditions within the Gaudiya Vaishnava faith.

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-18-2001).]

[Guest guest]

In the Narada Bhakti Sutras,Narada Muni instructs that:"One should not indulge in argumentative debate." (Sutra 74) This is precisely the sort of argument that will not be resolved. (Babhru das)

 

Yes, I do agree with you in that point.

 

So, Gaudiyas might present the sruti texts were Caitanya avatara is described before his advent and easily available nowadays. No other argumentative debates should be raised.

 

Gaudiyas themselves pointed out that avataras should be mentioned by srutis, they had mentioned the sruti texts were this evidence could be verified, but unfortunately all texts mentioned by them were non-plausible.

 

Now Gaudiyas want to change the rules for avatara’s manifestations trying to proof Caitanya’s avatara by argumentative debates ...

For certain they will state that jñanis, demons, rascals, atheists, karmis, and so on won’t accept their proofs due their malign nature. Now they will try to twist the whole thing and they will pose themselves as victims.

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by leyh:

Audarya:

In the Narada Bhakti Sutras,Narada Muni instructs that:"One should not indulge in argumentative debate." (Sutra 74)

 

Dear Leyh

Friend of you know who

On the sliding sleigh:

Where did you get this translation ?

I am interested in the source of your info.

My translation says something a little, but significantly, different.

Thank You.

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by talasiga:

Dear Leyh

Friend of you know who

On the sliding sleigh:

Where did you get this translation ?

I am interested in the source of your info.

My translation says something a little, but significantly, different.

Thank You.

 

 

talasiga:

The translation of the Narada Bhakti Sutras that I cited is by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and His Disciples.Srila Prabhupada only translated and made purports on the first eight sutras.The rest was completed by The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Narada-bhakti-sutra Translation and Editorial Board which consists of Satsvarupa dasa Goswami (Commentator and Editor in Chief),Gopiparanadhana dasa Adhikari (Translator and Sanskrit Editor) and Dravida dasa Brahmacari (English Editor).Which translation are you using and how does it translate Sutra 74?

[Guest guest]

 

For certain Gaudiyas should offer the sastric evidences for Caitanya avatara that had existed BEFORE his advent, not after. They might have an unbiased index to support their position.

 

Otherwise they won’t have sruti basis for their practices and would not claim their Vedic origin.

 

Therefore, while discussing with other darsanas opposites on this topic Gaudiyas have to obey some rules and regulations in these discussions, as follows:

 

1. Other sanatana-dharma darsanas won’t accept any argument on basis of Gaudiya-vaisnavas’ texts, such as Caitanya-caritamrta, Caitanya-bhagavata, or any writings made by their acaryas, that would be obviously considered biased.

 

2. They do accept srutis texts as sound evidences, except Caitanya Upanisad, that they would consider a new scripture made by Gaudiyas.

 

3. They do not recognize Smrti texts such as Bhagavata Purana, Bhavishya Purana, and so on as a bona fide sources, as they have many objections regarding the authenticity of these Puranas, its translations, interpolations, and so on, as well as many Agama texts that Gaudiyas generally use as evidences on Caitanya avatara.

 

They do not accept the Caitanya Upanishad: recently there was a discussion on that Upanisad instigated by some Gaudiyas themselves arguing that this Upanisad was invented by Bhaktivinoda to promote his cause of the discovery of Navadvipa-dhama. For certain no other darsana would accept a scripture whose legitimacy is questioned by the Gaudiya-vaisnava camp himself.

 

[jijaji]

Originally posted by jijaji:

 

 

[jijaji]

OH I forgot...

Krishnadas also inserts a famous Brahma-Samhita verse into the conversations between Sri Chaitanya & Ramananda.....

 

Which had not even been discovered yet by Sri Chaitanya...!

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-19-2001).]

[Guest guest]

Jijaji: Krishnadas also inserts a famous Brahma-Samhita verse into the conversations between Sri Chaitanya & Ramananda.....

Which had not even been discovered yet by Sri Chaitanya...!

 

Satyaraj: For certain Krsnadas had to face a lot of opposition to his theology. When someone has asked him to point out the evidences from sruti on Caitanya avatara he had pointed out some non-plausible slokas that simply had vanished away!

 

After this attempt he had offered some evidences from srmrtis such as Bhagavata and other Puranas, but he could not sustain his premise.

 

Thereafter he had said that sruti and srmtis weren’t good evidences because Caitanya was actually a hidden avatara, and only his associates could witness this fact. So he had tried to sustain his thesis with Rupa’s, Sanatana’s, Raghunatha’s statements, and other statements by Caitanya’s associates. But the only thing he could offer to support his thesis were a verse from a mangalacarana and a verse made by himself and attributed to Rupa and other ridiculous evidences like these.

 

Nowadays his followers are facing the same trouble: “How to sustain a hoax”?

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Satyaraja dasa (edited 11-19-2001).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Krishnadas also inserts a famous Brahma-Samhita verse into the conversations between Sri Chaitanya & Ramananda..... Which had not even been discovered yet by Sri Chaitanya...!

Perhaps the all knowing Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna Chaitanya, recalled the beautiful prayers offered to Him by Lord Brahma at the beginning of creation and recited this verse. Those who put a mundane conception onto the absolute truth end up with very little spiritual substance, despite their external ritual and glorification. They try to limit the absolute by mundane time and space, but the only thing limited is their speculative mind.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

But the only thing he could offer to support his thesis were a verse from a mangalacarana and a verse made by himself and attributed to Rupa and other ridiculous evidences like these.

The great Brazilian Vedic scholar, Satyaraj, barks at the moon like saint, Sri Krishna das Kaviraj Goswami, just like the dogs barking at the feet of passing camels. Such foolish dogs only can perceive the tiny hooves of the camels, and fail to understand the enormous animals they are connected to. They become very proud of their barking, thinking they have displayed their great courage in the face of the camel's hooves and staked claim to their rightful land. They do not understand that the passing camels care nothing about the insignificant and foolish dog, and walk off to continue their journey in the caravan back to Godhead.

[gHari]

They puff-up and are kicked away when they become greater than Krsna. It was always mental. That's why he fell victim to Jijaji's Nitai poisun. From here on it is worse than a waste of time.

 

Just too clever for their own good, but not quite clever enough. Now again, mouse.

[jijaji]

Originally posted by jndas:

Perhaps the all knowing Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna Chaitanya, recalled the beautiful prayers offered to Him by Lord Brahma at the beginning of creation and recited this verse.

 

** Sorry jnds your response is without proper research, because Sri Chaitanya was NOT the one who recited Brahma-samhita verse 5.1 during Ramanad-samvada.

 

It was Ramananda Roy who recited it to Mahaprabhu...

 

 

Those who put a mundane conception onto the absolute truth end up with very little spiritual substance, despite their external ritual and glorification.

 

** Those who accept everything they hear without doing their own invesitagtive work are doomed to be believers and keep themselves stagnated!

 

They try to limit the absolute by mundane time and space, but the only thing limited is their speculative mind.

**How can any one Religion think their holy books are gonna guide humamity for the next 10,000 years and just be accepted without some kind of investigation from that humanity!

 

sure....

 

Please tell us your responce to the Govinda-lilamrta verses inserted that were not yet written by Krishnadas himself..?

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-19-2001).]

[Guest guest]

The great Brazilian Vedic scholar, Satyaraj, barks at the moon like saint...

They puff-up and are kicked away when they become greater than Krsna...

 

vadah pravadatam aham

 

“In logical debate I am vada the principle that asserts a conclusion.” (Gita 10.32)

 

“Within logical debate (pravadatam), which consists of jalpa, vitanda and vada which establish one’s own point and refutes the opponent’s assertion, I am vada, by which the correct siddhanta and tattva are established.”

 

In this thread pravadatam is meant to establish Caitanya avatara. Here we are trying to attain vada on that question. Vada, the conclusion (tattva) is ascertained by proper deliberation, logic and argument.

 

In the field of argument and logic, vada, jalpa and vitanda are quite well known.

 

When, for the sake of establishing one’s own opinion, one continuously finds faults with the opponent’s statements, it is called jalpa.

 

Keeping the truth aside and avoiding proper deliberation and logic while finding fault in an opponent’s statement is called vitanda. The purpose of such arguments is not to ascertain reality but only to display one’s scholarship and the desire to defeat the opponent is very strong.

 

That deliberation which ascertains the Absolute Reality is is called vada. This vada is superior to all other forms of discussion.

 

Hari is being glorified by this pravadatam, so let us avoid the tamasic and rajasic forms of debate!

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

It was Ramananda Roy who recited it to Mahaprabhu...

The jivan-mukta is sarva-jna, or all knowing, and tri-kala-jna, or a knower of past, present and future. It is a concept very easy to understand for simple people.

[jijaji]

Originally posted by jndas:

The jivan-mukta is sarva-jna, or all knowing, and tri-kala-jna, or a knower of past, present and future. It is a concept very easy to understand for simple people.

 

oh sure.....

 

You act like questioning this part of Chaitanya Charitamrta is dumb or something. For your information and anyone else's who does NOT know....

 

Ramanand Samvada section of Chaitanya Charitmaram is the MOST studied and controversial section of Krishnadas's work and these very same questions I have brought have been brought up for 100's of years by many a learned Gaudiya Scholar not dummies like jnds seems to imply.

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-19-2001).]

[talasiga]

Originally posted by leyh:

talasiga:

The translation of the Narada Bhakti Sutras that I cited ..................

was completed by The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Narada-bhakti-sutra Translation and Editorial Board which consists of Satsvarupa dasa Goswami (Commentator and Editor in Chief),Gopiparanadhana dasa Adhikari (Translator and Sanskrit Editor) and Dravida dasa Brahmacari (English Editor).

Which translation are you using and how does it translate Sutra 74?

Mine is translated as,

 

"<u>Vain</u> discussion should not be undertaken ..." (my underlining)

 

from "Bhaktis[oo]tras of N[aa]rada"

translated by Nandalal Sinha

ISBN 81-215-0827-4

(Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers P/L)