Who is The Soul of Radha?

[adreamgodus]

Om Shanti...

 

Dear Hearts and Devotee of Lord Krishna;

 

Alas, i am very new here and know

very little of this path and most

of the knowledge and wisdom here

is way over my head...

 

But, when asking the question of

Who is the Soul of Radha,

 

there only seems to be one answer:

 

"You"!

 

After all if a Deovtee of the Precious

Dark Lord, then what else can you be.

 

Even in this light, i an also say,

that the Beloved Radha's Soul is

my own.

 

Not to be a little out of my leage, here,

but, i think when we define something too

much, we lose the point.

 

But, then, i may tend to use that

"F" word to much, that is: Feelings!

 

anyway, just my 5 rupies worth.

 

yours in love,

[Guest guest]

the soul of radha, are the Gopi's and their expansions.

through them Radha is enjoying the highest

levels of Rasa,through them and their

expansions She is enjoying Rasa with her innumerable devotees.

 

Radha is the highest female expression of the Supreme personality of godhead,

She and her expansions enjoy the mellow

of madhurya rasa ,the soul of Radha

can be described in different ways.

 

For the inhabitants of vrndavana,they see Krishna as the soul of Radha,but Radha herself may see the devotee as her heart and soul.

[Guest guest]

Is there reference to brahma vaivarta purana before 1000 AD ?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Yes, there is reference in the Matsya Purana.

 

[shvu]

 

All the eighteen puraanaas were in existence long before 1000 AD, but not in their present form.

 

There was an old Brahma Vaivarta which appears to be almost entirely lost. Of about 1500 lines quoted from the Brahma-vaivarta by the Nibhanda writers, only about 30 can be found in the present BV. Interestingly, quotes from sixteenth century writers are also not to be found in the present version.

 

Since none of the early Nibhanda writers [except Devanabhatta] quote from the Brahmavaivarta, it appears to have been unavailable for a long time, after which it was probably rewritten/recovered around 700-800 AD. According to JC Roy, "Since about the 10th cenury AD, this work began to be changed by the interfering hands of the Bengal authors who recast it to it's present form and contents during the sixteenth century".

 

Chapters 4.8 and and 4.26 are believed to be older than 500 AD.

 

Cheers

 

[adreamgodus]

Om Shanti

 

Dear Heart Shivaji,

 

Yes, this does feel right and i am

happy to have the clarification.

 

When we view the mystial moments of

our lives, we find, wonder, wonder,

and more wonder.

 

Wonder at the beauty and total and

perfect synocopated Divine Wisdom.

 

Please continue to explain more,

this was enjoyed by your sister.

 

Om Shanti

[Guest guest]

 

Sri Chaitanya incarnated to give the compete understanding of Radha Krishna tattva.

His teaching comes in the continuing

path laid down by Ramanuja,Madhava ,etc.

 

He was the Krishna in the mood of Radha.

He wanted to taste the ecstacy of Radha,

He understood that Radha was tasting ecstacy that far surpassed his own.

 

His incarnation was meant to teach these things.

Radha is enjoing more then Krishna,Krishna and Radha are one and the same supreme lord,

the highest incarnation of godhead Sri Chaitanya displays these truths in his own pastimes.

 

Radha is the predominant mood of Sri Chaitanya, Radha is the highest expression of the mood of the supreme lord, in the highest rasa.

 

This is the highest understanding.

 

 

[sha]

A message from another board:

 

<center>

 

<big>Râdhâ herself breaks silence.

 

<font color="red">In the kadamba grove what man is (that) standing?

What sort of word coming is this:

the plough of whose meaning has penetrated

startlingly the path of hearing?</font>

 

<font color="blue">With a hint of union,

with its manner of penetrating

making one well-nigh mad:

My mind is agitated,

it cannot be still,

streams flow from my eyes:

I know not what manner of man

it is who utters such words:

I see him not, my heart is perturbed,

I cannot stay in the house:

My soul rests not, it flutters to and fro

in hope of seeing him:</font>

 

<font color="red">When she sees him,</font>

<font color="blue">she will find her soul,</font>

<font color="red">quoth Urdbab Dâs</font></big>

 

from: http://www.sacred-texts.com/

 

<big><font color="blue">rAdhA kRSNAtmikA nityaM

kRSNo rAdhAtmiko dhRvam</font></big>

 

(Sri Radha Stotram-Brahmanda Purana)

 

<big><font color="red">Sri Radha is the Soul of Lord Krishna.

Sri Krishna alone is the Soul of Sri Radhika.

This is the eternal Truth.</big></font>

 

 

 

For the inhabitants of vrndavana,they see Krishna as the soul of Radha,but Radha herself may see the devotee as her heart and soul.

 

 

[Jagat]

Was the following post deleted from this thread? If so, why?

 

<blockquote><hr>Thank you shiva for that sweet Radha nectar. My understanding is that She is completely dependent on Her closest girlfriends, for without them Krsna would be impossible to handle since She is so overwhelmed by Her love for Him. The Radha-dasi manjaris in particular design as well as facilitate Their pastimes and rendezvous.

 

Radhika is certainly exceptionally appreciative of Her friends and always considers Herself obligated to them, similar to Krsna's admission of His inability to repay the gopi's limitless devotion.<hr></blockquote>

 

 

[sha]

 

....always considers Herself obligated to them, similar to Krsna's admission of His inability to repay the gopi's limitless devotion.

 

 

na pAraye 'haM niravadya-samyujAM

sva-sAdhu-kRtyaM vibudhAyuAapi va

yA mAbhajan durjara geha zRnkhalAH

saMvRzcya tad vaH pratiyAtu sAdhunA

 

(SB 10.32.22)]

 

The Blessed Lord said to His beloved Gopis:

 

<big><font color="red">"I am never able to repay My debt

for your selfless Love, even within

a lifetime of the cosmic creator Brahma.

Your total dedication to Me is

beyond My ability of reciprocation.

 

You have sincerely loved Me alone, shattering

all your domestic shackles and worldly attachments

which are very difficult to overcome.

So, please let your own glorious Divine Love be

your cherished eternal compensation."</big></font>

 

 

The Radha-dasi manjaris in particular design as well as facilitate Their pastimes and rendezvous.

 

 

Sorry, I do not agree with this misconception and distortion.

There is no mention of 'manjaris' but ONLY Gopis and Sakhis by Sri Caitanya.

 

The distorted understanding is given only by certain Rupanuga manjaris because they follow the writings and teachings of Manjari Bhava upasana as they do not know beyond that.

The Truth is vice versa.

 

For expanding the Divine Love Bliss of manjaris, Gopi Sakhis as well as all loving devotees of Vraja, the Divine Couple perform all pastimes including the confidential 'nikunja lilas', for 'Rasa Vistara', to drown the entire Vraja, in the sublime, shoreless, Bliss of Vraja Prema Rasa Madhuri.

This is very Unique of Sri Radha Para Tattva. There is nothing beyond the Supreme Power of Divine Love.

 

sakhina jUtha sanga, nita prati navarasa, barasAvati manamAnI,

 

Along with Her intimate eternal Associates, Sakhis and their assisting groups of unlimited playmate manjaris,<big> Sri Radhaji,</big> continuously rains down the torrential currents of Bliss of Prema Rasa,<big> according to Her own loving moods and ecstasies.</big>

 

These higher secrets of 'Unnatojjvala (Radha) Rasa' are not for everyone on the internet forums but only for a few devotionally evolved, pure, deserving souls.

 

Only those who have 'adhikara' can learn from the intimate circle of Radha's eternal Associate Maha Sakhis, and the rest can follow Her 'dasis and manjaris'.

[Guest guest]

slow down there pardnerz....

 

letz not go around speaking about things

in an authoritative manner when you don't really get it.

 

Radha is the Supreme personality of Godhead,

in the highest manifestation of God's

inner desire.

 

the gopi's are HER expansions,they are non different then Radha,although they have different personalities they are all the supreme lord, HERSELF.

 

In Vrndavana all the devotees are under the influence of Yoga Maya,they are unaware of

this fact.

 

To them Sri Krishna and Radha and the gopis are just their

friends,,they are unaware of the truth.

 

In Sanatana Goswami's Brhad Bhagavatamrta,

The entire knowledge of the Bhagavatam

is condensed.

 

The story of the jiva from a state of a lack of knowledge,then meeting Narada Muni and gaining a tour of the Bhagavata philosophy,

in the form of a tour of the heavenly planets,vaikuntha,and goloka is described.

 

Everywhere he goes with Narada from siddhaloka,Brahmaloka,Vaikuntha,Ayodhya,

Dwarka, he engages in the respective lifestyles.

Always he ends up being morose and unsatisfied, feeling a hankering for something else, even in the presence

of Dwarkadisha himself as a close friend

to him, the jiva is feeling a lack.

 

Then Narada takes him to Vrndavana,

upon his entrance there,He sees Krishna with some friends,then Krishna spots him,

he runs up to the jiva ,embraces him

tightly ,then faints in ecstacy.

 

The cowherd boys then take the jiva for private instruction, and the story ends there.

 

This story,the condensed nectar of all vedic knowledge, ends with the jiva

finally finding fullfillment as a cowherd friend of Sri Krishna.

 

When these truths are truely understood,

that the highest service to Krishna,

is that which gives the most pleasure

to God,that service which is free from

the desire to enjoy Sri Krishna ,that attitude which is fully devoted only to the pleasure of godhead,which is being enjoyed

by Sri Radha and her expansions.

This service is revealed to the sincere devotee.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Was the following post deleted from this thread? If so, why?

 

 

This post was removed because the person who posted it was previously banned for not following the rules of the forum. Those who refuse to follow the minimal rules will not be allowed to post messages, even as "guest".

[adreamgodus]

Beloved Child of Divine light

 

To join in your melody of the sacred song, here is a poem to Lord Krishna i wrote

to a devotee when she was in distress:

 

Now, i offer this translation of our

Sri Radha 's heart to Thee:

 

Lord Krishna, a honeyed light

pours His sweetness into my life

dripping, dripping His Majesty...

Golden Light surrounding me.

 

Light amber dreams of pure delight

only Him, my life, my sight!

 

Forgetting all, but, bliss and light

to the God, to the Sun, to the Man

surrounding, drowning, flying I am

sacred bliss, happiness

in His dream of togetherness

 

Heartfelt moments forever bloom

when Sri Krishna carries this Moon

holding me gently, kissing my tears

vanishing my pain, my earthly fears.

 

Crying, crying in a swoon,

Only Love, Only Love, Only Love

with this Beloved Groom

 

Never sadness, never fear

when one holds Sri Krishna dear

 

Beloved Music for all to hear

Honey tunes in summer's heat

Profoundly sacred, i kiss His feet!

 

-shikha, 2000

 

Om Shanti

 

 

 

[raga]

 

There is no mention of 'manjaris' but ONLY Gopis and Sakhis by Sri Caitanya.

 

The distorted understanding is given only by certain Rupanuga manjaris because they follow the writings and teachings of Manjari Bhava upasana as they do not know beyond that.

The Truth is vice versa.

 

 

Dear Jaya Sri Radheji,

 

Feel free to be in sakhi bhava as much as you like, but please do not degrade yourself by making such foolish statements. If you do not feel attracted to manjari bhava upasana, it does not turn the upasana into something distorted. Of course you may want to see your own upasana as the supreme among all, but please do understand that you live in a subjective world and consider others too. It is insane to quarrel over matters of taste.

[raga]

 

This post was removed because the person who posted it was previously banned for not following the rules of the forum. Those who refuse to follow the minimal rules will not be allowed to post messages, even as "guest".

 

 

I believe this took place a rather long time ago. Why not give him another chance?

 

The forum rules -- which rule did he not follow? I do know the poster but not his history here.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

There have been no requests from anyone who has been banned to again participate in the forums in a decent manner.

 

In the past when they posted they simply criticized forum members endlessly. It can be seen that they continue to do this in the other open forums they participate in. We aren't interested in having a garbage dump here.

 

You can not insult and criticize forum members, and then expect to sneak back in anonymously, waiting for another chance to attack people.

 

[sha]

You can not insult and criticize forum members.

 

As JNDas ji stated, please follow this courtesy and watch your language while throwing your comments around and do not confuse between forum members and non-members.

I never expect you nor other 'manjari bhava upasaks' to agree with my posts.

 

Hari Bol!

[raga]

 

I never expect you nor other 'manjari bhava upasaks' to agree with my posts.

 

 

Then I wonder why do you bother contributing to a forum (Raganuga Discussions) which is aimed for manjari bhava upasakas? If you do not have the ability to respect the upasana of others, please do not waste our time by posting there.

[sukadeva]

Dasas,prabhus or whatever you are respectfully called,

Raga did not use any offensive or insulting comments.I think some of you may be overreacting towards him.The way how manjari bhava upasakas term is used in Shas posting insults me like devotee and a member of worldwide devotee community.It is written in a way that he actually says that people which are following certain sadhana are on a lower scale.I certainly don't go around and measure people or look upon them if they are white,black,red,brown or yellow or if they follow this or that religion or spiritual way.I respect people no matter what their background is.I like to learn and share.Obviously some pretend that they do that,when in reality they don't.That is how i did understood it.Please,be so nice and clarify it.Also,please apologize to Raga,because your post is authoritarian and single minded.

[raga]

 

It is written in a way that he actually says that people which are following certain sadhana are on a lower scale.

 

 

Since perception in gradations of rasa is subjective, I cannot blame anyone for thinking that his/her inclination is the best. However, I am very hurt by the following:

 

 

The distorted understanding is given only by certain Rupanuga manjaris because they follow the writings and teachings of Manjari Bhava upasana as they do not know beyond that.

 

 

The word distorted pinches my heart and gives me sorrow.

 

Aside this, we may note that the bhava experienced by the manjaris is higher than the bhava experienced by independent nayikas on account of the manjaris' bhava-tadatmya with Sri Radhaji. It is certainly a different flavor of rasa from sambhogecchamayi, but in terms of the intensity and depth of experience it is no less than sakhi bhava. The very moods of Radha Herself are directly reflected in the manjaris' being. Alas, in the presence of Her manjaris She does not need a mirror even, such is the degree of their bhava-tadatmya!

 

[sha]

 

Then I wonder why do you bother contributing to a forum (Raganuga Discussions) which is aimed for manjari bhava upasakas?

 

 

Please contact your forum members of so called "Raganuga Discussions" what they can post and not, as I am not a member.

 

This forum belongs JNDas ji and run according to his set of rules.

If 'Raganuga' is interpreted according to some limited perception as 'manjari bhava sadhana.com', may be all, not only members but visitors also have to be warned.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

[sukadeva]

I am just wondering whom you are educating with such a attitude?Raga mentioned that forum is for the devotees which aspire or practice for MBS,but not only for them.As a philosopher (i studied philosophy too)you should be educated not to be so aggressive regarding peoples opinions or philosophies.Instead,again what i have learned is that as a philosopher one approaches other person with an attitude which is based in respectfulness of somebody else ideas or teachings.Thats the primary.After that one can debate in a civilized way,share,learn or teach.Unfortunately,i still see just seeds of totalitarianism deeply embedded in your persona.

One another thing,your way of calling devotees on raganuga forum so called devotees,because they are on so called raganuga discussions just shows how jealous you must be of them all,including Raga.

Facilitator

[sha]

You must try to understand, with all due respect, that trying to prove siddhanta on the authority of 'Manjari bhava upasakas' means very little when the very conceptions of theirs are not TOTAL and ULTIMATE.

You'll have to refer to (the Lord Himself, Gauranga Mahaprabhu and His eternal intimate Associates and other Siddha Mahapurusha Vraja Rasik Saints) higher than that.

 

It is not in the interests of sincere devotees to judge others simply on account of their different inclination.

But if someone wishes to propose and propagate his or her way of 'manjari bhava upasana' as the ultimate path given by Mahaprabhu for everyone, that is clearly distortion and disservice to the Divine Couple.

 

seyi mahAbhAva haya cintAmaNi sAra

kRSNa vAJchA pUrNa kare eyi kAryya jAra

mahAbhAva bhAva cintAmaNi rAdhAra svarUpa

lalitAdi sakhI tAra kAyavyUha rUpa

 

C.C. 2. 8.

 

For the inhabitants of vrndavana, they see Krishna as the soul of Radha, but Radha herself "may" see the devotee as her heart and soul.

 

 

I have responded to this quote which I perceived as distortion, since I am hurt too, as I worship 'Sri Radha Para Tattva' as the Supreme and Ultimate limit of Divine Love, not 'manjaris' or the devotees.

 

sA bhrU nartana cAturI nirupamA sA cAru-netrAJcale,

lIlA khelana cAturI varatanos, tAdRg vaco cAturI,

sanketAgama cAturI nava nava krIDA kalA cAturI ,

rAdhAyA jayatAt sakhIjana - parihAsotsave cAturI

 

(Sri Radha Sudhanidhi- 63)

 

<font color="red">All glory to the matchless Expert Sri Radharani Who possesses these extraordinary expertise :-

 

1. Shri Radha is expert in a unique dance of the eyebrows.

 

2. Shri Radha is expert in performing games of Her lovely side-long-glances.

 

3. Shri Radha is expert in performing various delightful pastimes.

 

4. Shri Radha is expert in the art of conversation.

 

5. Shri Radha is expert in the art of creating ever-new romantic love sports.

 

6. Shri Radha reveals Her unique expertise, especially in playing humorous jokes on Her playmates in the joyous mood of celebration.</font>

 

premollAsaika sImA parama rasa camatkAra - vaicitrya sImA

saundaryasyaika sImA kimapi nava vayorUpa lAvaNya sImA

lIlA mAdhurya sImA nija jana param audArya vAtsalya sImA

sA rAdhA saukhya sImA jayati rati kalA keli mAdhurya sImA

 

(Sri Radha Rasa Sudhanidhi- 130)

 

<font color="blue">All glory to Sri Radhika Who is the ultimate Limit of the boundaries of remarkable divine attributes:-

 

1. Shri Radha is the zenith of ever-blooming love,

 

2. Shri Radha is the zenith of the queerness of fantastic expressions of divine ecstasy.

 

3. Shri Radha is the zenith of the sheer beauty,

 

4. Shri Radha is the zenith of fascinating splendor with Her ever-fresh youth.

 

5. Shri Radha is the zenith of supremely sweet pastimes.

 

6. Shri Radha is the zenith of most generous affection for Her devotees in kindness.

 

7. Shri Radha is the zenith of the divine joy and bliss.

 

8. Shri Radha is the zenith of the finesse of the sweet and amorous pastimes of divine love.</font>

 

And also replied to these:

 

....always considers Herself obligated to them, similar to Krsna's admission of His inability to repay the gopi's limitless devotion.

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam 10.32.22

 

The Radha-dasi manjaris in particular design as well as facilitate Their pastimes and rendezvous.

 

 

tathAhi gItam (rAmAnanda rAya):

pahilahi rAga nayana bhaMga bhela

anudina bADhala-avadhi nA gela

nA so ramaNa nA hAm ramNI

duhun mana manobhAva peSala jAni

ye sakhi! se saba prema kahinI

kAnuThA me kahiva, vichuraha jAni

nA ravojaluM dUtI, nA ravojaluM Ana

<big>duhikeri milane madhyata paMcabANa</big>

aba soyi virAga, tuMhu bheli dUtI

supuruSa-prema ki echana rIti

 

C.C. 2. 8.

 

Since perception in gradations of rasa is subjective, I cannot blame anyone for thinking that his/her inclination is the best.

 

 

Please read my posts carefully with unbiased heart. You may discover they are intended only to glorify Srimati Ji.

 

Even Sri Rupa Manjari admitted in 'Sri Radhikashtakam':

 

hari pada nakha koTI pRSTha paryanta sImA

taTam api kalayantIM prANa koTer abhISTam

pramudita madirAkSI vRnda vaidagdhya dIkSA

gurum ati guru kIrtiM rAdhikAm arcayAmi

 

Verse. 7- 'Radhikashtakam' by Sri Roopa Goswami

 

<font color="red">I fondly worship my great<big> Preceptor, Radhika,</big>

to Whom even the farthest area surrounding

Beloved Lord Krishna's moon like toes,

is millions of times more sacred and

dearer than Her very own life and soul.</font>

 

<big><font color="blue">My eternal Guru, Srimati Radharani,</big>

INITIATES and perfectly coaches

the groups of beautiful Maidens with

Love intoxicated eyes and ecstasy filled

hearts into the arts of passionate

Amorous Sports with Sri Krishna.

 

Thus She alone attains immense fame as

the universal Prema Rasa Acarya.</font>

 

Hari Bol!

[raga]

 

Please contact your forum members of so called "Raganuga Discussions" what they can post and not, as I am not a member.

 

 

Strange enough, though, that identical posts appear from "anuraag" of Raganuga Discussions and "Sha" of India Divine, with the same fancy formatting and all, accompanied by links to Kripalu Ji's websites, spelling Rupa Gosvami as "Roopa Gosvami".

 

Examples: Here and here. Here and here. Use the search to find more. You can look for all of "anuraag"'s posts here and for all of "Sha"'s posts here.

 

Here is anuraag's avatar from Raganuga Discussions:

 

Here is Sha's avatar from IndiaDivine:

 

A remarkable similarity in taste I'd say.

 

Also I noticed that anuraag joined Raganuga on Jan. 31 2002 and Sha joined IndiaDivine on Jan. 22 2002. Looks like they became interested in these forums around the same time.

 

Sha, either you have a very dedicated shadow who has adopted your qualities who is taking the trouble to post things you post here to Raganuga Discussions as anuraag (who is Jaya Sri Radhe), or otherwise you just lied to us.

 

 

 

If 'Raganuga' is interpreted according to some limited perception as 'manjari bhava sadhana.com', may be all, not only members but visitors also have to be warned.

 

 

And I believe your group should also change its name from "International Society for Divine Love" to "International Society for Kripalu's Brand Of Divine Love". Then it would be ISKBODL, sounds almost like ISKCON. Perhaps you may no longer use the ISDL name, though, as Didi Ji who founded the society for Kripalu Ji left the ranks a while ago. I don't know.

[Guest guest]

Now don't get all upset because what i say

may be a little different then what you percieve

as being the true nature of Radha and her

pastimes.

 

Radha is the supreme personality of godhead.

 

Krishna is the same supreme personality of godhead.

 

To understand their pastimes perfectly is not possible by those who have not entered into them.

 

To understand shastric references to their lila,

you must first understand that what is written is not neccesarily understood by the reader.

 

the reader may accept everything that is being written

in shastra in a straightforward way,although the true

nature of the lila described is written in such a way

that only those who have been initiated into the lila

can appreciate their inner meaning.

 

The external meaning is meant for the devotee who is on the path of purification,the hearing and chanting of

these topics are raising the consciousness of the

sadhaka to a higher level.

 

when one is ready ,the inner meaning is revealed.

 

Then the shastric descriptions become a doorway

into a different conception then previously held.

 

The devotee is no longer concerned about attaining

this or that special place as a sakhi,a manjari,

or whatever.

 

At that stage the understanding of Radha tattva takes on a different tone, the devotee is brought into the inner reality.