Our Swamini-Kishori

[valaya]

Excert from a lecture by Srila Narayana Maharaja entitled "The `extra` month of Purusottama", received as Hari-katha Email:

 

Krsna plus Srimati Radhika's inner mood and gaura-kanti (golden complexion) is Sacinandana Gaurahari. When Sacinandana Gaurahari is minus that golden beauty and intrinsic mood, He is Krsna. Mahaprabhu came to this world to taste the essence of prema and to give raga-marga-bhakti to the world. We have called you all from so many places around the world. Why? In this way we will explain to you the moods of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and how He wanted to give raganuga bhakti and especially rupanuga-bhakti, the service to Srimati Radharani. We have no direct relationship with Krsna. Our svamini is Srimati Radhika. Our relationship is with Her, and Krsna is Her most beloved.

valaya RR

 

(Please note that this is only a small part of the talk and that bold/italic lettering was done by me)

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-18-2001).]

[animesh]

Hey,

There is no bold/italic lettering.

[talasiga]

Originally posted by animesh:

Hey,

There is no bold/italic lettering.

You can't see it ?

Maybe your blood sugar is low.

Try eating small amounts more frequently.

 

Do they have cafes where you live ?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Krsna plus Srimati Radhika's inner mood and gaura-kanti (golden complexion) is Sacinandana Gaurahari.

 

A very beautiful and imaginative way to describe Hari indeed. No sruti text, however, describes Hari in that way. Only some Pañcaratras that cannot be considered Vedic.

 

He wanted to give raganuga bhakti and especially rupanuga-bhakti, the service to Srimati Radharani. We have no direct relationship with Krsna. Our svamini is Srimati Radhika. Our relationship is with Her, and Krsna is Her most beloved.

 

Badarayana Rsi himself states in Vedanta-sutras (2.4.42-46) that the theory of saktis cannot be employed to describe how Hari performs His pastimes. No ‘service’ to these saktis can be taken as serious, as these lilas are far beyond this ingenuous explanation.

 

If one is stating that he has no direct relationship with Hari he is accepting a second Hari, or something that is different to Hari to be related with. This is an utmost absurd, as Hari is one without a second. No lilas’ partners can be worshiped as Hari, or are to be considered as a second Hari, or as Hari’s soul, etc. Badarayana Rsi (Vyasadeva) himself strongly refuses such imaginative and falacious thesis in his Vedanta-sutras.

 

[valaya]

Originally posted by animesh:

Hey,

There is no bold/italic lettering.

 

Sorry, didn't transfer properly from my other post, but I've corrected it now.

 

 

[valaya]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

 

He wanted to give raganuga bhakti and especially rupanuga-bhakti, the service to Srimati Radharani. We have no direct relationship with Krsna. Our svamini is Srimati Radhika. Our relationship is with Her, and Krsna is Her most beloved.

 

Badarayana Rsi himself states in Vedanta-sutras (2.4.42-46) that the theory of saktis cannot be employed to describe how Hari performs His pastimes. No ‘service’ to these saktis can be taken as serious, as these lilas are far beyond this ingenuous explanation.

 

If one is stating that he has no direct relationship with Hari he is accepting a second Hari, or something that is different to Hari to be related with. This is an utmost absurd, as Hari is one without a second. No lilas’ partners can be worshiped as Hari, or are to be considered as a second Hari, or as Hari’s soul, etc. Badarayana Rsi (Vyasadeva) himself strongly refuses such imaginative and falacious thesis in his Vedanta-sutras.

Hari is simultaneously one and different (acintya-bhedabheda), or would you deny Him that? Similarly Radha-Krsna is one, though separated for the purpose of lila.

 

We are also one in Hari, although differing from Him and each other. That difference is expressed through Hara/Radha. Thus our connection to Hari/Krsna is through Her, personally or impersonally.

 

Hare Krsna! Hare Krsna!

 

Since Lord Caitanya appeared in Her mood, service to Him is accepted as service to Her. That most intimate personal relationship with the Absolute as the personification of Divine Love, compassion, mercy and devotional service Herself has thus been made freely available to all who wish to accept this rare gift.

 

Lord Caitanya is revealed by Nityananda Prabhu and Srimati Radharani will then reveal Herself if the intense desire is there and we are ready to forsake everything else, including intimacy with Sri Krsna.

 

Obviously, Satyaraja prabhu, you are becoming increasingly expert in examining the `differences` and what God is not. Searching for oneness is far more difficult and, I believe, more worthy of your undeniably extensive efforts. Choice is always there for all of us. Faith is certainly necessary, but it must be focused. By loving One we can come to love everyone, if our Love is real. As we both seem to agree, that requires His Divine Grace.

 

JAI GAURANGA! JAI GAURANGI!

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-18-2001).]

[Guest guest]

 

Hari is simultaneously one and different (acintya-bhedabheda), or would you deny Him that? Similarly Radha-Krsna is one, though separated for the purpose of lila.

 

This is a very imaginative thesis indeed. But it obviously does not have any support on sruti basis. Hari is always Absolute. He does not depends on any simultaneity to sport His lilas, as time is not a conditioning factor to Him. So, if you state that according to that theory Radha-Krsna are one thought separated, you are only stressing that sometimes there is something different than Hari and sometimes there is not.

 

This is only another absurd that try to twist sruti’s clear statement that ‘never there is a second Hari.‘

 

We are also one in Hari, although differing from Him and each other. That difference is expressed through Hara/Radha. Thus our connection to Hari/Krsna is through Her, personally or impersonally.

 

So, now you are postulating the thesis that jivas are the same as Hari in all aspects. In other words, sometimes we are fully Hari and sometimes we are partially. When connected by this Radha we are fully Hari, and when disconnected we are partially Hari. This is your acintya-bhedabheda. What a non-sense!

 

Since Lord Caitanya appeared in Her mood, service to Him is accepted as service to Her.

 

First Gaudiyas might to present some plausible sruti’s evidences to support Caitanya avatara. Then we may consider him as a ‘Lord’ and not as a very exalted mukta who was trying to revel his satya-sankalpa feelings that were transformed into a theology by some fanatics.

 

Faith is certainly necessary, but it must be focused.

 

Here there is another point of divergence between Gaudiyas and Vedantists. According to sruti avidya is the cause of bondage and only vidya can gives one mukti. Nowhere in sruti texts it is mentioned that faith is a premise to convey mukti. Faith may be present or not, if avidya is dispelled mukti is guaranteed. On the other hand, if one has faith but avidya is not dispelled he won’t attain mukti.

 

[valaya]

Your present position is perfectly clear, Satyaraja prabhu, however that does not mean we all must accept it any more than that of others here.

 

My own belief is simply that God can be and do anything in any way, shape or form He chooses to without any limitation whatsoever, including shastra and even Satyaraja.

 

I see a vast difference between religion and relationship, as well. The connection with Srimati Radharani completely transcends all limitations, as does She Herself.

 

Ultimately, our acceptance must therefore depend on Her personal revelation which results in life-changing realizations.

 

If you wish to categorize me I cannot prevent it, nor is it my wish to merely proselytize here. My aspiration is only to be of service. Hopefully a few will appreciate what is being offered.

 

Some say that the means and the end are the same and I'm afraid that the means you're employing in your own `search` will ultimately prove to be your end...

 

valaya RR

[Guest guest]

 

Ultimately, our acceptance must therefore depend on Her personal revelation which results in life-changing realizations.

 

Can we call these realizations ‘moksa’? Known that a mukta is omniscient and he also can create worlds to reciprocate with Hari. He may even invite his relatives, friends, pets, trees and any other jivas to live eternally in these worlds. He may manifest all attributes given to him by Hari, and he may have no form, a single form or countless forms. He is completely free and his will spontaneously accomplishes his act.

 

Did your personal revelation and realizations have give you these characteristics mentioned by sruti (Vedanta-sutras 4.4.1 to 22)?

 

Moksa can only be attained by vidya, not by faith, by Tantra, or by any sadhana, nor religion. Hari alone is the cause of that vidya and avidya.

 

[suryaz]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Moksa can only be attained by vidya,

And what may I ask constitutes “vidya”?

[valaya]

The Christian bible states succinctly, "Ask and ye shall receive, Knock and the door will be opened unto thee."

 

In my complete desperation I asked every diety in the temple room over and over again, including Srila Prabhupada. It was Srimati Radharani whose door was opened. Still I attribute that to His Divine Grace as the transparent via-medium.

 

My faith was in Divine Grace as God's love ever since I can remember, but it finally came to focus exclusively on Radhika. Major life-changing realizations occured through Her which also made me aware of Her position as Swamini-Kishori and Her influence throughout my life, including the time before hearing of Sri Radha through Srila Prabhupada.

 

Certainly some moksha has been attained solely by Divine Grace, but surely much is yet to come. Those who have known me closely though, before and after, can confirm the extensive changes with that experience about ten years ago.

 

valaya RR

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 10-19-2001).]

[Guest guest]

 

And what may I ask constitutes “vidya”?

 

Vidya is God-knowledge. Sruti is a source of vidya. (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.3) God Grace is the cause of vidya and avidya.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Certainly some moksha has been attained solely by Divine Grace, but surely much is yet to come.

 

Very interesting indeed. So, you had attained partial moksa. That’s to say, sometimes you create a samvyoma in your heart and invite some jivas to live eternally with you. Thereafter you come back to a conditioned state again, and what happen with those jivas who were living eternally with you? Is that your acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva, sometimes in sometimes out? And what about your omniscience? Is it also sometimes working and sometimes down?

 

Can you describe what loka you are living by now while following the 5th oblation of water? For certain you should be aware of it in that stage of partial moksa. There are 13 stages in that ‘partial moksa.’ So, maybe you are at the end of the road, isn’t? Can you easily recognize the 101st artery of your heart at the time of your departure? Is Hari always waiting for you there to show you the path?

 

But there are other paths to attain moksa...

[valaya]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Certainly some moksha has been attained solely by Divine Grace, but surely much is yet to come.

 

Very interesting indeed. So, you had attained partial moksa. That’s to say, sometimes you create a samvyoma in your heart and invite some jivas to live eternally with you. Thereafter you come back to a conditioned state again, and what happen with those jivas who were living eternally with you? Is that your acintya-bheda-abheda-tattva, sometimes in sometimes out? And what about your omniscience? Is it also sometimes working and sometimes down?

 

Can you describe what loka you are living by now while following the 5th oblation of water? For certain you should be aware of it in that stage of partial moksa. There are 13 stages in that ‘partial moksa.’ So, maybe you are at the end of the road, isn’t? Can you easily recognize the 101st artery of your heart at the time of your departure? Is Hari always waiting for you there to show you the path?

 

But there are other paths to attain moksa...

 

Satyaraja prabhu, I am obviously not as knowledgeable in these matters as you are, at least scripturally. Something permanent happened to me as described briefly in my previous post. Make of it what you will or just dump on me as so many others have. It is my life, after all, for better or for worse.

 

I'm simply sorry that my experience appears to be only beneficial for me and that I'm unable to be of any real service to others whose painful situation is becoming more and more apparent to me. There is little chance of anyone changing whatever realized faith I may have at this point and in fact others only seem to strengthen it, making me increasingly grateful for the shelter I've been given.

 

I'm certain that everything will be worked out in time quite naturally by His Divine Grace, although many more incarnations will probably be necessary due to my deeply fallen condition and adamantly stubborn nature.

 

I have no desire to create new worlds or gather others anyway, except to bring them into that Divine Grace whom I know as Sri Radha. As far as I'm concerned, I belong to Her alone, but who knows what the future will bring? Thank you for your concern.

 

valaya RR

 

 

[kailasa]

Radharani is not your property and to listen to dirty glorifications of pleasure is not present. The lower is our rule(situation), the on higher authority we refer. Is Radha and is Krisna and to allocate senselessly, but if to allocate that KRISNA a source only. isvarah paramah krisnah. If you will speak constantly about the feelings in a society(community) where it is not accepted, you can lose them. With good wishes, kailasa.

[Guest guest]

I'm simply sorry that my experience appears to be only beneficial for me and that I'm unable to be of any real service to others whose painful situation is becoming more and more apparent to me.

 

Don’t worry! Many had the same feelings of yours before. As you may be aware, there is no scarcity of muktas in Vaikuntha. Even at that place they cannot share their experiences and realizations! Most have a conception of Radha completely different than yours, and would never relish to have pastimes at her side. You can consult Sanatana’s Brhad-bhagavatamrta to confirm this remark of mine. So, do you really expect that in this world you will be understood by people like me?

 

I have no desire to create new worlds or gather others anyway, except to bring them into that Divine Grace whom I know as Sri Radha.

 

If even most of the muktas cannot agree with that conception of Radha that you have, how can you expect to bring other living entities to your own conception of Radha without creating your own worlds? You will have to create them! Good look!