gHari Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 I do not believe that Guru Nanak is either an impersonalist or Mayavadi. He seems to preach mukhti at times yet he remains in love. Here the unseen Lord becomes seen which strongly suggests form: Page 1093 Wherever You are, there is no ego. O spiritual teachers, understand this: the Unspoken Speech is in the mind. Without the Guru, the essence of reality is not found; the Invisible Lord dwells everywhere. One meets the True Guru, and then the Lord is known, when the Word of the Shabad comes to dwell in the mind. When self-conceit departs, doubt and fear also depart, and the pain of birth and death is removed. Following the Guru's Teachings, the Unseen Lord is seen; the intellect is exalted, and one is carried across. O Nanak, chant the chant of 'Sohang hansaa' - 'He is me, and I am Him.' The three worlds are absorbed in Him. || 1 || THIRD MEHL: Some assay their mind-jewel, and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad. Only a few of those humble beings are known in this world, in this Dark Age of Kali Yuga. One's self remains blended with the Lord's Self, when egotism and duality are conquered. O Nanak, those who are imbued with the Naam cross over the difficult, treacherous and terrifying world-ocean. || 2 || PAUREE: The self-willed manmukhs do not search within their own selves; they are deluded by their egotistical pride. Wandering in the four directions, they grow weary, tormented by burning desire within. They do not study the Simritees and the Shaastras; the manmukhs waste away and are lost. Without the Guru, no one finds the Naam, the Name of the True Lord. One who contemplates the essence of spiritual wisdom and meditates on the Lord is saved. || 19 || SHALOK, SECOND MEHL: He Himself knows, He Himself acts, and He Himself does it right. So stand before Him, O Nanak, and offer your prayers. || 1 || FIRST MEHL: He who created the creation, watches over it; He Himself knows. Unto whom should I speak, O Nanak, when everything is contained within the home of the heart? || 2 || PAUREE: Forget everything, and be friends with the One Lord alone. Your mind and body shall be enraptured, and the Lord shall burn away your sins. Your comings and goings in reincarnation shall cease; you shall not be reborn and die again. The True Name shall be your Support, and you shall not burn in sorrow and attachment. O Nanak, gather in the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within your mind. || 20 || SHALOK, FIFTH MEHL: You do not forget Maya from your mind; you beg for it with each and every breath. You do not even think of that God; O Nanak, it is not in your karma. || 1 || FIFTH MEHL: Maya and its wealth shall not go along with you, so why do you cling to it - are you blind? Meditate on the Guru's Feet, and the bonds of Maya shall be cut away from you. || 2 || PAUREE: By the Pleasure of His Will, the Lord inspires us to obey the Hukam of His Command; by the Pleasure of His Will, we find peace. By the Pleasure of His Will, He leads us to meet the True Guru; by the Pleasure of His Will, we meditate on the Truth. There is no other gift as great as the Pleasure of His Will; this Truth is spoken and proclaimed. Those who have such pre-ordained destiny, practice and live the Truth. Nanak has entered His Sanctuary; He created the world. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 TRUE GURU equals CAITYA GURU ? Rings loudly for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted October 28, 2001 Report Share Posted October 28, 2001 Just received your second warning, Talasiga. All I can say is that I'm not quite as dull as you surmise. I tend to get a little creative when I write, but that was actually a little tenderness between myself and Sri Krsna - a little kidding if you will. Please tolerate me. If you hadn't noticed, I've spent the last several hours becoming aware of their scriptures. If you underestimate me too much, you are sure to be disappointing at some point. Or so one would hope. There I go again. Too esoteric; the quick readers will misunderstand - but the moving finger having writ, so I offer it as one of your poetic puzzle allusions of a truth unseen. Now back to Guru Nanak. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 Dear gHari All your cut and paste is a lot of waste until you can grow out of this prejudice:- Originally posted by gHari: I was chanting on my beads on the way to the airport in Toronto in an airport limo. The driver was Sikh. I mentioned that this practice had come from Caitanya Mahaprabhu who was a contemporary of Guru Nanaak. I mentioned the story of how the two had danced and sang hymns together. He became quite angry and belligerent: "Sikhs do not sing and dance!" I noted how they worship Krsna. He said no they don't, that God has no form or name. I mentioned that his Guru referred to God by Krsna's names like Rama and Govinda. He was still adamant that their God was not Krsna; that the use of the names was only to appease the neighborhood Hindus. I lost a lot of respect for them that day, and they became just more psychotics in my mind. Now maybe Mayavadis can be found in all religions, but I am not likely to approach another Sikh unless Krsna really drags me by the ears. Waking up is quick and sweet and involves no long quotes ! . . . ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 Talasiga, So y'all will insist that I too must live my life on the mental platform, using induction and logic to effect my life? Where's that written - especially in a spiritual forum where 'surrender' is bandied about like a cliche. I do not consider it a prejudice to avoid those who deny God's person. It was recommended to me by the man I've admired most in this life, to avoid such impersonalists for they are more dangerous than a tiger. I also avoid associating with those who malign Sri Krsna in any way. Quite frankly, if that upsets you, I don't care - your approval is meaningless to me when compared to the greatness of Krsna and this man. I am now trying to determine whether that Sikh I met was just stupid or not knowledgeable about his own religion, or whether Guru Nanak's teachings have been distorted into an impersonalistic church. You can help, by answering this question or just continue all this superior attitude, which incidently just documents your arrogance and inferiority. Believe me, I am hoping most desperately that I can write that rude character off as an uneducated misfit out of touch with real Sikhism. Some of the websites however are not too promising, talking of merging into a formless God. Yet Nanak is quite lovely so there is still hope. If you are a Sikh you can help me here. If you are an impersonalist, then you will hate me no matter what I do. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 Wake up call for scholars! Likely only one person will read these anyway. But you are worth a million insincere seekers. Page 1277 In the Lord's Name, it is forever rejuvenated; it shall never wither and dry up again. Without the True Guru, no one finds the Lord; anyone can try and see. By the Lord's Grace, the True Guru is found, and then the Lord is met with intuitive ease. The self-willed manmukh is deluded by doubt; without good destiny, the Lord's wealth is not obtained. The three dispositions are completely distracting; people read and study and contemplate them. Those people are never liberated; they do not find the Door of Salvation. Without the True Guru, they are never released from bondage; they do not embrace love for the Naam, the Name of the Lord. The Pandits, the religious scholars, and the silent sages, reading and studying the Vedas, have grown weary. They do not even think of the Lord's Name; they do not dwell in the home of their own inner being. The Messenger of Death hovers over their heads; they are ruined by the deceit within themselves. Everyone longs for the Name of the Lord; without good destiny, it is not obtained. When the Lord bestows His Glance of Grace, the mortal meets the True Guru, and the Lord's Name comes to dwell within the mind. O Nanak, through the Name, honor wells up, and the mortal remains immersed in the Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 gHari: So y'all will insist that I too must live my life on the mental platform, using induction and logic to effect my life? Where's that written - especially in a spiritual forum where 'surrender' is bandied about like a cliche. talasiga: Does the state of surrender encompass chanting the Lord's Name on the rosary AND, at the same time, giving a commentary on this to a taxi driver ? gHari: I do not consider it a prejudice to avoid those who deny God's person. It was recommended to me by the man I've admired most in this life, to avoid such impersonalists for they are more dangerous than a tiger. talasiga: It is MOST appropriate that you avoid displaying your erudition to that particular taxi driver ! It is INAPPROPRIATE prejudice that you have judged all Sikhs on the basis of one experience with one of them. ghARI: I am now trying to determine whether that Sikh I met was just stupid or not knowledgeable about his own religion, or whether Guru Nanak's teachings have been distorted into an impersonalistic church. talasiga: Are you sure he was a Sikh and not someone in disguise ? Have you thought that, perhaps he was a frustrated psychotherapist out to bust your false ego ? gHari: Believe me, I am hoping most desperately that I can write that rude character off as an uneducated misfit out of touch with real Sikhism. Some of the websites however are not too promising, talking of merging into a formless God. talasiga: No contradiction. Krishna has provided His formless aspect for those who are into merging ..... gHari: Yet Nanak is quite lovely so there is still hope. talasiga: Keep reading. You may come to a page where you will learn about forgiveness. gHari: If you are a Sikh you can help me here. talasiga: If I have helped you it is by Lord's Grace. If I haven't, it is not because I am not a Sikh. gHari: If you are an impersonalist, then you will hate me no matter what I do. talasiga: You are not so significant that you can serve as a focus for a definition of impersonalism. If I were to love you no matter what you did, would that make me a personalist ? ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-29-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 tarasiga, Please don't waste my time anymore. On one hand I have this little dog chewing at my heels and on the other I have Guru Nanak. You were quite boring by comparison, and all I learned in that half-hour wasted was to never again talk to barking dogs. Like my life has anything to do with you. Three times you hassled me. Now maybe English is not your first language and you can't see the real meaning in my original post, but even if that is the case, posts two, three, and four were just a nuisance and an ego thing. My life has nothing to do with you. Keep your word jugglery away from me - my life's too precious. Find another way to maintain your ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talasiga Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 Originally posted by gHari: Like my life has anything to do with you. Three times you hassled me. Now maybe English is not your first language and you can't see the real meaning in my original post, but even if that is the case, posts two, three, and four were just a nuisance and an ego thing. My life has nothing to do with you. Keep your word jugglery away from me - my life's too precious. Find another way to maintain your ego. Meaning is my first language I will juggle any other to convey it. You started off despising all Sikhs and now you are down to only abusing me. We are making some progress ..... ------------------ talasiga@hotmail.com [This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-29-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 gHari: I lost a lot of respect for them that day, and they became just more psychotics in my mind. Now maybe Mayavadis can be found in all religions, but I am not likely to approach another Sikh unless Krsna really drags me by the ears. Satyaraj: Perhaps your own psychosis due Mayavada is troubling you? You had showed a lot of erudition by posting sikhis’ literature on the conception on ‘ to merge with God.’ Maybe now you would display that same erudition by quoting your own acaryas, such as Baladeva’s commentary on sayujiya (Vedanta-sutra 4.4.4). Please read it and enlighten your own mind on that subject matter of ‘to merge with God.’ Can one be at Goloka without sayujiya? Or at any other place? Is there something different than Hari? Ask Baladeva! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jijaji Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 Originally posted by talasiga: gHari: So y'all will insist that I too must live my life on the mental platform, using induction and logic to effect my life? Where's that written - especially in a spiritual forum where 'surrender' is bandied about like a cliche. talasiga: Does the state of surrender encompass chanting the Lord's Name on the rosary AND, at the same time, giving a commentary on this to a taxi driver ? gHari: I do not consider it a prejudice to avoid those who deny God's person. It was recommended to me by the man I've admired most in this life, to avoid such impersonalists for they are more dangerous than a tiger. talasiga: It is MOST appropriate that you avoid displaying your erudition to that particular taxi driver ! It is INAPPROPRIATE prejudice that you have judged all Sikhs on the basis of one experience with one of them. ghARI: I am now trying to determine whether that Sikh I met was just stupid or not knowledgeable about his own religion, or whether Guru Nanak's teachings have been distorted into an impersonalistic church. talasiga: Are you sure he was a Sikh and not someone in disguise ? Have you thought that, perhaps he was a frustrated psychotherapist out to bust your false ego ? gHari: Believe me, I am hoping most desperately that I can write that rude character off as an uneducated misfit out of touch with real Sikhism. Some of the websites however are not too promising, talking of merging into a formless God. talasiga: No contradiction. Krishna has provided His formless aspect for those who are into merging ..... gHari: Yet Nanak is quite lovely so there is still hope. talasiga: Keep reading. You may come to a page where you will learn about forgiveness. gHari: If you are a Sikh you can help me here. talasiga: If I have helped you it is by Lord's Grace. If I haven't, it is not because I am not a Sikh. gHari: If you are an impersonalist, then you will hate me no matter what I do. talasiga: You are not so significant that you can serve as a focus for a definition of impersonalism. If I were to love you no matter what you did, would that make me a personalist ? ha ha ha ....... ¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´* [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 10-29-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted January 8, 2002 Report Share Posted January 8, 2002 [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 01-08-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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