Mysterious Dream Entity ....

[Gauracandra]

Last night The Learning Channel had an interesting program. I had seen it before, but they replayed it for Halloween.

 

The program was researching a mysterious dream phenomenon that has been documented for hundreds of years in various cultures.

 

Here is what happens. While one is sleeping they wake up but are paralyzed. They sense an 'entity' in the room that swoops down upon them and sits on their chest. The pressure of this entity is so great that the people have difficulty breathing.

 

They showed a number of historical accounts of this occuring. What was interesting was how absolutely consistent the descriptions were from people who experienced this (throughout the ages).

 

The ones from the middle ages had the same description but usually depicted (in drawings) the entity as a goblin, or ghoul. But they had a number of people in modern times discuss what they saw and felt. In every one, it was a witch like woman, with grey hair, and piercing eyes. She would glide towards (not walk) the sleeping individuals.

 

It was very spooky (thats why it was good to replay for Halloween ) On a scientific level this is what they explained. The phenomenon is very real. What happens is in some people the body wakes up, but the mind still thinks it is dreaming. Thus people have 'awake dreams'. The mind still thinks it is asleep thus the body can not move. But the person is awake and panics because the mind hasn't let the body reconnect.

 

I found the program very interesting. But they couldn't explain how it was that people all over the world, who never met, or new of this phenomenon, would see the exact same image. Why a witch-like individual?

 

We've had discussions in these forums before about the nature of dreams, and how dreaming might give one access to other levels of reality. Perhaps this is what occurs. When the mind and body have this disconnect one is able to perceive another reality on a subtle platform. This is just a guess.

 

Pretty freeky.... happy Halloween....

 

Bwahahahaa....

 

Gauracandra

[marco]

Gaura(Soma)chandra. Is my father,

Dr. Melvin, a ghost to you? Just

asking.

[marco]

Originally posted by marco:

Gaura(Soma)chandra. Is my father,

Dr. Melvin, a ghost to you? Just

asking.

Is my father, Dr. Melvin, a part of

your Halloween nightmare, or Kruger`s

dreams at Elm Street? Just asking.

 

 

[gHari]

Yes, halloween. Tonight was prasadam distribution night; Holyween. I put candles around a plastic skull on the lawn. It was like a pilgrimage to Lord Shiva. I found an old golf club cover in the shed shaped like a gorilla (from the old days before I got my ego in check thanks to caddy Bagger Vance).

 

I found a fallen branch and stuck it in the ground by the skull to hold the gorilla. Soon a huge bag of bananas was placed under it (they had been on sale today, all ripe for 19 cents a pound Canadian - Krsna's mercy/hint/incentive).

 

So after the kids got their sweets, I would announce that "Monkey says he wants you to have one of his bananas". These are wonderful kids; they were all thrilled. Near the end, one of my favorite humble seven year old friends was leaving and I told him that monkey said he wanted to go with him because he was the best dressed.

 

As I lifted the stick out of the ground to award the ecstatic little prince, I realized that it was a monkey on a stick. Shiva puja and a 'monkey on a stick' - but all the while it was Krsna prasadam for all. Even gHari ended up with his own bag of sweets at the end. Ana banana.

 

Now when I think of Monkey on a Stick, I will remember this enchanted night of sharing prasadam with all my little friends.

 

gHari

 

------------------

Gary Stevason

Seeking the Kingdom of God

[JRdd]

Monkey on a stick transformed! Good one! Now I can forget that terrible book. Well sort of.

 

We don't have trick or treat/prasad distribution on my street. There are no street lamps and it is tucked behind the town too. I don't think little kids want to get scared THAT much.

 

Today is the anniversary of the night I moved into the temple. I handed out simply wonderfuls to the kids at the door. I have been having a lot to do with prasadam ever since, one way or the other.

 

About those dreams, I too have had the ones where they sit on you or choke you and you can't breathe or even chant to make them go away, and Sriula Prabhupada said would chase the ghosts away. But I found you could cry out the holy names in your head, and that dispels them pronto! One time a ghost did that and I knew I needed to chant--and loud, but couldn't get my voice. I used the strongest will power I may have ever accessed, and sat up shouting "BALARAMA!" and it was gone. One time I actually saw faces, while still awake, in a totally dark room. They were outlines of white against the blackness, coming toward me with freakish ghoulish leers, scariest things I ever saw. I left that room and chanted for hours in the night, terrified at how I still felt, but there was a hollow feeling in me, and I was afraid that the mechanical chanting would not keep them away. The devotee who stayed up with me talked to me about the potency of the Holy Names, and sincerity, and assured me of Krsna's presence and kept me going. That apartment was so haunted. I ended up sharing a different room with Jadurani for a while, and the sounds made us uneasy. One night the door opened and footsteps came in but no one was there. Talk about inspired chanting!

 

Anyway, once I found out that they feed on fear, and that they are so easily dispatched with the chanting, they stopped bothering me.

 

Old buildings that became temples have often had ghosts in them. So devotees had to be prepared with how to deal with them.

 

Jayaradhe

 

 

[atma]

It happened to me too, normally if I slept during the day or after Mangal Aratik. From my experience it has nothing to do with the separation of the mind and body, it was really ghostly. Chanting in the mind helped. Once I was trying so hard to chant to get rid of it and some devotee put one of Prabhupada's tapes and the beautiful sound came through the window and all anxiety was gone. You get desesperate trying to breathe and get rid of the weight in your chest.

 

Once in Vrindavan in Khilan's house I had this really bad experience and I saw this hairy hand, really freaky, a few weeks later in my city I saw the same thing. Great the ghost followed me! Going to sleep with Prabhupada's bhajans and Srimad Bhagavatam in the pillow got rid of everything.

 

Another freaky experience in Vrindavan was when my kid was a baby and we were sleeping in the Guest House and she woke up crying in the middle of the night. She was terrified and nothing could stop her from screaming. The really scary part was that her eyes were different,really weird. A security guard came to tell me that I had to move because everybody was complaining. In the middle of the night I had to move to some room in the back with a possesed baby! Two matajis came with me and we chanted the Nrisimha prayers and Nrisimha kavaca to the baby and finally she went to sleep. It took a while though. They told me that in Vrindavan the ghosts are really strong because they are brahmana rakshasas. Many devotees told me the experiences there. Guru Kripa's girl couldn't sleep properly for few nights in the Radha Raman temple and nothing helped until a Vrajabasi told them to keep a knife under her pillow to get rid of the ghost. It worked. No problems after that.

 

In another temple I had a funny one that used to pull the end of my sari while I was cooking the evening offering and nobody was there because the temple president instructed me to keep the door close all the time because I was the only woman with 25 brahmacharis and better if I wasn't seen or heard. I guess the ghost came to give me company. More ghost stories: in another temple that was really haunted this living entity walked on the walls! You could hear the steps, up and down the walls and IT loved to spy in the matajis while taking showers. You could feel the presence of something on top of the window, so much so that once one of the ladies run out of the bathroom with the hair full of shampoo, scared to death. Many of us felt it and it wasn't a brahmachari because the window was too high for anyone to be up there.

 

More ghost stories later for Gauracandra to have sweet dreams.

 

In my country, today the 1st, is the Day of the Death and everybody goes to the cementeries and fix the graves, put flowers, etc. Tomorrow is the day of the Saints and everybody goes to church and worship them.

 

For us, last night was Rasaleela and the beginning of Kartika. Today morning we took the sweet rice maha-prasada from Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. What a nice culture! We are singing the prayers for Lord Damodara and asking the Lord to let us always remember His childhood pastimes.

 

rudantam muhur netra-yugman mrijantam

karambhoja-yugmena satanka netram

muhuh svasa-kampa-trirekanka kantha

sthita-graiva-damodaram bhakti-baddham

 

Upon seeing His mothers's whipping stick, He cried and rubbed His eyes again and again with His two lotus hands. His eyes were fearful and His breathing quick, and as Mother Yasoda bound His belly with ropes, He shivered in fright and His pearl necklace shook. To this Supreme Lord, Sri Damodara, who is bound with His devotee's love, I offer my humble obeisances.

 

varam deva moksam na moksavadhim va

na canyam vrne'ham varesad apiha

idam te vapur natha gopala-balam

sada me manasya avirastam kim anyaih

 

O Lord, although You are able to give all kinds of benedictions, I do not pray to You for liberation, nor eternal life in Vaikuntha, nor any other boon. My only prayer is that your childhood pastimes may constantly appear in my mind. O Lord, I do not even want to know Your feature of Paramatma. I simply wish that Your chilhood pastimes may ever be enacted in my heart.

[rishidas]

Interesting topic. I have also had similar experiences, although somewhat different in nature, as thus far the ghosts have never tried to choke me or pounce on me or anything like that. The experiences I have had have always happened right around the brahma-muhurta hour, somewhere between 4 and 6 AM. When I used to live in the Temples, if I took a snap during this time, I would sometimes have this semi-awake paralysis experience. I never saw ghosts at that time, however. Instead, it seemed to be more of an "astral projection" type of thing. My body would become paralyzed, but if I didn't panic, I would (or my astral body would) float upwards into the air, not too far usually, but sometimes I would go outside the building a short ways, and I could very vividly see exactly what was there, even though my physical eyes were shut. Actually, I would become exhilarated upon the thought of being able to astral travel and due to the excitement, I would always quickly re-enter my body and wake up. I have known a few devotees who were able to astral travel, and they have described a similar experience, that the body freezes up at first, and if one can overcome the natural tendency to panic, that one can learn how to astral travel.

 

On the other hand, I have also had experiences where my body has frozen up and I have clearly seen a ghost, through eyes wide shut, and usually the ghost was standing or sitting very very close to my sleeping body, way too close for comfort. As mentioned by someone else, this type of experience would happen in an old house. Since my physical eyes were shut, my best guess is that I saw these ghosts with "astral vision", since ghosts do hover on the astral plane. So far, I have only seen 2 different ghosts. One, an old man with a long grey beard, stark naked. Kind of spooky, standing very close to me, just observing me, but apparently having little regard for my privacy or space, perhaps even trying to frighten me in some way. Naturally, I would panic, seeing this uninvited intruder standing so close to me, not saying a word, not letting me know what his intentions were, not letting me know whether he was friend or foe. So, I would try to chant. But, being that my body was paralyzed, I could only chant in my mind, and I would then awaken within a few seconds. If I immediately returned to sleep, it would happen again, unless I played a bhajan of Srila Prabhupada on my tape player.

 

I also recall that while residing in a Temple once, I heard very loud, very malicious, and very real laughter, while taking a snap during the brahma-muhurta hour. Didn't see anyone, but definitely heard someone on another "plane".

 

A couple of weeks ago I had an experience of someone tapping my shoulder while I was asleep, (again, during the brahma-muhurta hour, give or take), although I didn't see anyone at that time. However, just 2 or 3 nights ago, I saw a new ghost, (or perhaps the same ghost who possibly has the ability to change his/her form?) sitting down in the chair which was located just next to my bedding. This time, the form was that of an old woman with a full head of grey hair, smiling. She didn't make any threatening moves towards me, but clearly she, like the old naked man, was trying to frighten me, being that she was way too close for comfort. Obviously, a respectful guest to my room would at least stand or sit from a distance, and make some attempt to announce him or her self. Again, panic would set in, and the only way I could escape from the experience was to chant in my mind.

 

I tend to agree that these beings or ghosts do in fact feed off of fear. However, I've been curious to experiment to see what may happen if I can somehow or other refrain from panicking and confront the ghost face to face, not letting it feed off of my fear. He/she may have the advantage, being more familiar with the astral plane than myself, but I am thinking that I could always awaken if needed, by mentally chanting, should the situation become too unpleasant. But if I could confront the entity face to face, in the astral plane, (or whatever you wish to call it), perhaps I could make it leave simply by asking it to leave. Or perhaps I could ask this entity exactly what it is he or she wants, and whether he or she has entered my private quarters as friend or foe. Who knows, it may be some sort of guardian angel. I don't know. I have read some literature on astral projection and I do know that it takes some time and experience in the astral plane to develop one's astral senses, such as sight, sound, touch, etc. So, who knows, maybe my fear is unfounded. Maybe guardian angels, if they do indeed exist, need to be in very close proximity to the physical body. My gut feeling is that these aren't guardian angels, but merely disembodied entities, who have nothing better to do than to hover around someone's sleeping body, perhaps due to a desire to possess the body, or perhaps out of some sort of twisted need to feed off of someone's fear. Maybe fear gives them strength. If that is true, then perhaps the opposite is also true---maybe courage, love, compassion, or some other positive emotion will weaken the ghost's powers, if any, and drive it away. Or, maybe the ghost is simply lonely and wants someone to talk to, who knows?

 

On a slightly different note, my sister has said that she has had experiences where her body has become paralyzed while sleeping and that she was "abducted by aliens." So, I don't know what to think. Maybe there are different types of "ghosts". Some could be lonely, disembodied entities, perhaps "friendly ghosts". Others could be brahma rakshasas, some could be aliens, others could be demons, maybe even yamadutas, given the ghastly descriptions of these beings that other devotees have shared.

 

Just speculating of course. But, it appears that most devotees have had similar experiences, to one degree or another. And, since I am currently living in an old house, where generations of families have lived, I am curious as to exactly what it is I am experiencing. And wondering if it is safe to enter the astral plane to boldly confront these entities and question them as to their intent.

 

Any further input from others regarding their astral or ghostly experiences would be interesting and helpful.

 

Hare Krsna

 

rishidas

[talasiga]

Originally posted by JRdd:

About those dreams, I too have had the ones where they sit on you or choke you and you can't breathe or even chant to make them go away, and Sriula Prabhupada said would chase the ghosts away. But I found you could cry out the holy names in your head, and that dispels them pronto! One time a ghost did that and I knew I needed to chant--and loud, but couldn't get my voice. I used the strongest will power I may have ever accessed, and sat up shouting "BALARAMA!" and it was gone. One time I actually saw faces, while still awake, in a totally dark room. They were outlines of white against the blackness, coming toward me with freakish ghoulish leers, scariest things I ever saw. I left that room and chanted for hours in the night, terrified at how I still felt, but there was a hollow feeling in me, and I was afraid that the mechanical chanting would not keep them away. The devotee who stayed up with me talked to me about the potency of the Holy Names, and sincerity, and assured me of Krsna's presence and kept me going. That apartment was so haunted. I ended up sharing a different room with Jadurani for a while, and the sounds made us uneasy. One night the door opened and footsteps came in but no one was there. Talk about inspired chanting!

 

 

Compare this with the following by replacing "Tulasi" with "Holy Names":

 

 

JRdd Member posted 10-28-2001 11:48 AM

Is it okay to use Tulasi so functionally? I mean like the example of ........,and the other uses mentioned? ..... The reason I ask, and have difficulty with this, is because I have always thought of Tulasi in a devotional way, and not so functionally.

 

from thread:

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000824.html

[talasiga]

rishidas: The experiences I have had have always happened right around the brahma-muhurta hour, somewhere between 4 and 6 AM. When I used to live in the Temples, if I took a snap during this time ......

talasiga: What exactly were you photographing ?

 

rishidas:....I would sometimes have this semi-awake paralysis experience.

talasiga: ..... Exactly what sort of camera were you using ? Do think it had a short circuit ?

 

rishidas: I also recall that while residing in a Temple once, I heard very loud, very malicious, and very real laughter, while taking a snap during the brahma-muhurta hour.

talasiga: Do you think it was some people watching "Smile, You're on Candid Camera" ?

 

 

[valaya]

When devotees reveal themselves by sharing personal stories here I don't like to see them stifled by meanspirited criticism from others lacking the courage to post similar personal experiences.

 

Nor do I believe someone's lack of expertise in the English language should be mocked. What a shame we can't bring out our sweetest offerings due to the infestation of flies which is so common on these forums.

 

valaya RR

[valaya]

Some are able to discern the difference between using for material medicinal benefits and taking spiritual shelter. Also, the Holy Names have no restrictions in this Age of Kali. Any offenses incurred by chanting are absolved through continued chanting. What's the matter, Talasiga, JRdd not responding gratefully enough to your condescending `compliments`?

 

valaya RR

 

************************************************************

 

 

From Talasiga:

Originally posted by JRdd:

 

About those dreams, I too have had the ones where they sit on you or choke you and you can't breathe or even chant to make them go away, and Sriula Prabhupada said would chase the ghosts away. But I found you could cry out the holy names in your head, and that dispels them pronto! One time a ghost did that and I knew I needed to chant--and loud, but couldn't get my voice. I used the strongest will power I may have ever accessed, and sat up shouting "BALARAMA!" and it was gone. One time I actually saw faces, while still awake, in a totally dark room. They were outlines of white against the blackness, coming toward me with freakish ghoulish leers, scariest things I ever saw. I left that room and chanted for hours in the night, terrified at how I still felt, but there was a hollow feeling in me, and I was afraid that the mechanical chanting would not keep them away. The devotee who stayed up with me talked to me about the potency of the Holy Names, and sincerity, and assured me of Krsna's presence and kept me going. That apartment was so haunted. I ended up sharing a different room with Jadurani for a while, and the sounds made us uneasy. One night the door opened and footsteps came in but no one was there. Talk about inspired chanting!

 

Compare this with the following by replacing "Tulasi" with "Holy Names":

JRdd Member posted 10-28-2001 11:48 AM

Is it okay to use Tulasi so functionally? I mean like the example of ........,and the other uses mentioned? ..... The reason I ask, and have difficulty with this, is because I have always thought of Tulasi in a devotional way, and not so functionally.

 

from thread:

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000824.html

[talasiga]

valaya:Some are able to discern the difference between

using for material medicinal benefits and taking spiritual shelter.

talasiga: Indeed ! Both sickness and the seeing of ghosts

are tamasic. One may take spiritual shelter from them.

 

valaya: Also, the Holy Names have no restrictions

in this Age of Kali.

talasiga: The recommendation for <u>anyone</u>

is to chant from the <u>loving heart</u>. Does this include include

chanting from the <u>fearful kidneys</u> or the <u>angry liver</u> ?

 

valaya: Any offenses incurred by chanting

are absolved through continued chanting.

talasiga: How did the topic of "offense" arise ?

I don't recall raising it.

 

valaya: What's the matter, Talasiga, JRdd not responding

gratefully enough to your condescending `compliments`?

talasiga: I am grateful that sometimes JRdd says

things that make me feel like complimenting her.

If my compliments are not pleasing on account of my poor English

or difference of expressive style why mock me for this ?

As I do not have an agenda of manipulation with regard to her,

I am not overwrought if my flattery falls flat on the floor !

Nor do I seek to ingratiate myself in some way as my aim is honest.

So sometimes I will agree with her, sometimes challenging,

sometimes joking.

 

If I wanted to,

don't you think I could be cunning and intelligent enough

to play the game and work this forum so as to obtain

the majority's approval and pretend to be agreeable friend of so many ?

And do you think Krishna would be more pleased with me then ?

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 11-02-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by talasiga:

valaya:Some are able to discern the difference between

using for material medicinal benefits and taking spiritual shelter.

talasiga: Indeed ! Both sickness and the seeing of ghosts

are tamasic. One may take spiritual shelter from them.

 

valaya: Also, the Holy Names have no restrictions

in this Age of Kali.

talasiga: The recommendation for <u>anyone</u>

is to chant from the <u>loving heart</u>. Does this include include

chanting from the <u>fearful kidneys</u> or the <u>angry liver</u> ?

 

valaya: Any offenses incurred by chanting

are absolved through continued chanting.

talasiga: How did the topic of "offense" arise ?

I don't recall raising it.

 

valaya: What's the matter, Talasiga, JRdd not responding

gratefully enough to your condescending `compliments`?

talasiga: I am grateful that sometimes JRdd says

things that make me feel like complimenting her.

If my compliments are not pleasing on account of my poor English

or difference of expressive style why mock me for this ?

As I do not have an agenda of manipulation with regard to her,

I am not overwrought if my flattery falls flat on the floor !

Nor do I seek to ingratiate myself in some way as my aim is honest.

So sometimes I will agree with her, sometimes challenging,

sometimes joking.

 

If I wanted to,

don't you think I could be cunning and intelligent enough

to play the game and work this forum so as to obtain

the majority's approval and pretend to be agreeable friend of so many ?

And do you think Krishna would be more pleased with me then ?

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 11-02-2001).]

 

Well alright then! Thanks for telling me off and giving me what for without the excessive use of poetry...BTW, your understanding of the English language appears to be far better than most of ours', including mine.

 

Ostensibly offensively, Valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-02-2001).]