Was Krishna Just ????

[radhe]

"Tangled is the way of works in the world. When Rama the Avatar murdered Vali or Krishna, who was God himself, assassinated, to liberate his nation, his tyrant uncle Kansa, who shall say whether they did good or did evil ? But this we can feel, that they acted divinely." -- Sri Aurobindo

 

 

Hello Friends. I am new to this bulletin board. Just felt like expressing this thought. When I read "Ramayana & Mahabaratha" the first time, I used to wonder, even argue that in some occasions, Krishna and Rama acted unjustly(vali and duryodhana's death). But, as my love for Krishna suddenly blossomed, i realised that Krishna is a law unto himself. Krishna's conciousness is one beyond the mind. We as creatures of the mind tend to judge everything based on the mind. The logic of mind however doesnt apply to the dynamics of Krishna. My mind which previously never used to agree to such an argument ... opened up once the heart opened to Krishna...

I end this post with a beautiful aphorism from Sri Aurobindo.

 

"God often fails in His workings; it is the sign of His illimitable godhead."

 

[talasiga]

Was Krishna Just ????

 

Originally posted by radhe:

"God often fails in His workings; it is the sign of His illimitable godhead."

Krishna Just Is

 

 

[gHari]

Glad that You just are,

So I can just be.

[marco]

Radhe, are you the same Jaya

Sri Radhey, who is my father`s

friend? You see, before his de-

parture from this life, he

wanted his friend, Sri Jaya,

who was banned in this area

not to post anymore messages

because of some error, to be

back and contribute her piece

of mind and heart articles a-

bout Radha-Krishna(?) and not

to some places like, SEEKERS

OF THE BELOVED GOD.delphi.com/

forums.

I`m just asking.

[talasiga]

Krishna and His Devotee

 

Originally posted by gHari:

Glad that You just are,

So I can just be.

Who is the honey

and who the bee ?

 

Now let me see .....

 

 

.

.

.

 

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[radhe]

Marco -- Sorry to disappoint you. But am not that "radhe" i guess.

 

karthik_v -- Let me tell you what i understood from that last aphorism that i posted. If we say that God is omnipotent, one tends to assume that god is successful in whatever he does. In some cases, Failure might be necessary to attain the eventual result. Therefore an omnipotent god has also the capacity to fail, simply because he is omnipotent. I do agree to your statement that Krishna is beyond dualities...

[gHari]

No, no, no. Krsna never fails. His desires are always successfully achieved. That's what we call "omnipotent".

 

It may not be the way we would want it, but be assured that it is as He desires. No doubt, the universe is unfolding as it should.

 

It's all His mercy for us here, stubbed toes and all.

[talasiga]

Originally posted by gHari:

No, no, no. Krsna never fails.

His assertions <u>fail</u> to cover His extent.

 

 

[gHari]

A guest riddled an omnipotent paradox of Prabhupada "Can God create a rock that He cannot lift"?

 

Prabhupada responded something like "Yes, He will create a rock He cannot lift".

 

"And then He will lift it!"

[talasiga]

Originally posted by gHari:

"Can God create a rock that He cannot lift"?

Prabhupada responded something like "Yes, He will create a rock He cannot lift".

"And then He will lift it!"

 

Let us take a look at the paradigm

in Radhe's conundrum above.

Perhaps it could be represented as:-

question: Can Krishna fail so badly that He can not overcome it ?

 

And the answer may be:-

answer: Yes ! He can fail so badly that He cannot overcome it. And then He will overcome it !

 

But think about this:

If Krishna creates an insurmountable failure which He then overcomes, then the failure has not been succesful as a failure. Therefore it is a failure. The Perfect Failure.

 

Jay Jay Shri Krishna !

[suryaz]

Originally posted by talasiga:

 

Let us take a look at the paradigm

in Radhe's conundrum above.

Perhaps it could be represented as:-

question: Can Krishna fail so badly that He can not overcome it ?

 

And the answer may be:-

answer: Yes ! He can fail so badly that He cannot overcome it. And then He will overcome it !

 

But think about this:

If Krishna creates an insurmountable failure which He then overcomes, then the failure has not been succesful as a failure. Therefore it is a failure. The Perfect Failure.

 

Jay Jay Shri Krishna !

Moreover the failure is a failure in the interim period this would render Krishna in a state of temporary overcomeness. But overcome by what – myay???? Perhaps????

 

Another point to raise is - if Krishna can become overcome then what of his eternity in nature. An interim would indicate a temporary disposition. Jivas also have a temporary disposition - this it usually theologically defined as the temporary identification with that which is not one’s eternal disposition

 

Suryaz

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 11-01-2001).]

[valaya]

Krsna readily admits His failure to reciprocate the gopis' love and devotion for Him. Thus he always feels obliged to His unalloyed devotees. That is the potency behind Bhakti and She is none other than Srimati Radharani Herself. JAI RADHE!

 

valaya RR

[gHari]

Yes, and He admits He cannot see His own beauty as Radha does; or even understand the unlimited love She has for Him. This forces Him to advent in the mood of Radha, as His own devotee to taste His own incomparable sweetness.

[gHari]

Yes, who is the honey?

And who is the bee?

 

If we could only see our own great fortune through Krsna's eyes.

[valaya]

Originally posted by gHari:

Yes, and He admits He cannot see His own beauty as Radha does; or even understand the unlimited love She has for Him. This forces Him to advent in the mood of Radha, as His own devotee to taste His own incomparable sweetness.

Do you think maybe Krsna wants to experience for Himself what Radhika finds most attractive in Him just so that He can reciprocate Her love more effectively?

 

In other words, although He is the Supreme Enjoyer, isn't His greatest pleasure found in pleasing His devotees, of which She is the foremost?

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by gHari:

"Can God create a rock that He cannot lift"?

Prabhupada responded something like "Yes, He will create a rock He cannot lift".

"And then He will lift it!"

If He creates a rock He cannot lift

and then proceeds to lift it,

He has <u>failed</u> to create a rock He cannot lift !

 

Jay Jay GiriDhar Gopaal !

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by radhe:

[b"God often fails in His workings; it is the sign of His illimitable godhead."

Here, I choose to differ with Sri Aurobindo (assuming you quoted him correct and not out of context). Krishna (God) doesn't fail; for success and failure are signs of a conditioned souls. Nor does He fail (let down) his devotees. Sometimes we perceive that He has let us down only because we are not pure in devotional service. So, we see everything from a material perspective. If we get rich, we believe that Krishna has rewarded us; if we have a heart attack we believe that (despite our being a devotee) He has let us down. That is only because we are not pure.

 

On the other hand, pure devotees like Srila Prabhupad, never validate Krishna's actions from a material perspective. When SP suffered 2 heart attacks on board Jaladuta, he did not blame Krishna. He instead thought that Krishna was testing his resolve to serve Him. So, a pure devotee doesn't differentiate between (material) pleasures and sufferings. For him they are the same. All that matters is serving Krishna.

 

That is why in SB, Prahalad humbly requests Narasimha to allow him to serve the devotee of the devotees of Krishna. He doesn't ask for material benedictions.

 

So, where is the question of Krishna failing or letting down His devotees? For He is beyond success and failure.

 

[Audarya lila]

Krsna can do anything. Even create minds and false egos such that they can forever keep the conditioned souls engaged in the endless mutability of maya.

 

The first post in this thread stated quite well that Krsna is beyond the limits of the mind. Subsequent ones have only proven this to be the case.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[Caitanyachandra]

Yes, who is the bee?

And what is the honey?

 

 

[valaya]

Of course God can do anything/everything, which includes permanently separating His internal potency and allowing Her to put Him under the control of Maha-maya just to enjoy eternal pastimes with that part of Himself most dear to Him, His pure devotees. As we wish to serve the best in ourselves, so does He.

 

That sweetest dearmost Krsna of Vraja belongs solely to His closest devotees, particularly Srimati Radharani. Unless we can somehow or other, by their Divine Grace, relate with Him personally without being influenced by His `Godness`, we cannot begin to enter into those inner pastimes.

 

That is why vaidhi bhakti must give way to raganuga at some point for those seeking the most intimate relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna.

 

valaya RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-02-2001).]

[jijaji]

quote:

That is why vaidhi bhakti must give way to raganuga at some point for those seeking the most intimate relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna.

 

jijaji:

True but please understand that in Gaudiya Vaishnavism a sadhak of the raganuga practice of manjari-smarana-leela (siddha pranali) does NOT contemplate on his siddha deha as being in service directly to Sri Krishna OR Sri Radhe.

 

In manjari sadhana one contemplates on one's spiritual idenity (siddha-deha) as being a servant of one of the "Hand-maidens" of Sri Radha..never Sri Radhe directly, but a servant of the servant of Sri Radhe...

That is the position of a raganuga sadhak in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-02-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by Caitanyachandra:

Yes, who is the bee?

And what is the honey?

 

In the sense of impersonal Absolute Truth there is only Hari, as Satyaraja keeps pointing out. However, Gaudiya vaishnavas consider Sri Radha as His vitality, that inner potency on which all others are based.

 

Thus Krsna believes Her to be His life and soul. Similarly, He is the `life and soul` of the residents of Vraja. The highly intimate nature of their loving pastimes makes it impossible to determine who is doing what to whom, or even why, at any given time. They themselves are bewildered! The reciprocation is so perfect and complete that all are totally lost in the oneness of Divine Love!

 

God totally surrenders to pure devotion, otherwise Bhakti would not be the topmost yoga. A question, prabhus: If you had to choose between Absolute Truth and Divine Love, what would your choice be? Do you think that if both presented themselves simultaneously there would even be a question of choice?

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-02-2001).]

[valaya]

Originally posted by jijaji:

You kinda see things in your own way don't ya valaya?

My own personal experiences over the last 58 years or so, but `confirmed` by many scriptures and books, however I've no living guru nearby to speak with confidentially.

 

Still, is my way of seeing and believing so bad? I know what I was and how I am now in my heart and I do give all glories to His Divine Grace.

 

Perfection usually takes time for each of us, doesn't it, and I've got all eternity ahead of me...but I do feel strongly that my basic focus is correct. JAI SRI RADHE!

 

BTW, do you know Dasaratha-suta das, translator and distributor of `Nectar Books` in Georgia, USA? Really beautiful stuff, prabhu! I'd be happy to put you in touch with him.

 

valaya RR

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-02-2001).]

[jijaji]

Originally posted by valaya:

My own personal experiences, but confirmed by many books, however I've no living guru nearby to speak with confidentially. Still, is my way of seeing and believing so bad? I know what I was and how I am now in my heart and I give all glories to His Divine Grace. Perfection usually takes time for each of us, doesn't it, and I've got all eternity ahead of me...but I do feel strongly that my basic focus is correct. JAI RADHE!

 

BTW, do you know Dasaratha-suta das, translator and distributor of `Nectar Books` in Georgia, USA? Really beautiful stuff, prabhu! I'd be happy to put you in touch with him.

 

valaya RR

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-02-2001).]

I know of those publishers thanks...

 

jijaji

 

[marco]

Radhe, my dearest, thank you for the

clarification. I guess you are not Sri

Jaya Radhey.

 

Now, will you speak to me about yourself?

I`m very much interested in you because

it`s in you I`ll know my other self( from

the letters of my father, Dr. Melvin)

 

My dear friends, out there, please give

her also the chance to speak. I bet she has

the sweetest voice, like Sri Jaya Radhey.