Jesus Christ is our Lord!

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

What happens to the souls living in the remote parts of the world who never got the opportunity to hear about Jesus, will they be saved?

This is where they generally degenerate to sentimentality and give up logic. For example, one Christian priest told me, "If a child dies when still young, in a place where they have never heard of Christ, he will automatically be saved by the Lord."

 

Why? Don't they believe in some original sin which all humanity must suffer for?

 

The problem is they do not understand reincarnation, which answers all questions regarding fate and cause of suffering. Why is someone born with a terrible disease, or why someone is born deformed, and why someone else isn't? Why is someone born in a porr country and someone else born in a rich country? Is God partial to some? Without understanding the laws of Karma, God begins to look like a terrible person.

 

[ggohil]

Originally posted by mateo:

..........It is only by faith alone

that one can be saved from sin. If you

have faith in Christ then you shall be

saved.

]

What happens to the souls living in the remote parts of the world who never got the opportunity

to hear about Jesus, will they be saved?

 

If the Christianity is the only faith that can save the human race, then why does God allow souls

being born in the family that practice faith other then Christianity.

 

If faith in Chritianity is the only way to the salvation then, what happens to an innocent child

born into a faith other then Christianity, who is, for some reason, to die after few days, will he be

saved?

 

What happened to the souls who where born before the time of Lord Jesus, were they ever

saved?

 

[naradadeva]

krsna has unlimited incarnations whenever there`s irreligion he descends to restore

religion and protect his devotees from ir-

religion.

[ggohil]

Originally posted by mateo:

.........If you

have faith in Christ then you shall be

saved.

(edited 11-08-2001).]

Saved from What?

 

For example:

 

Without the understanding of the system of Karmas and Incarnation, catastrophe of events like that of September 11, 2001 which destroys hundreds of lives ( including Christians) cannot be explained in terms of being “saved”. Subsequently the most forgiving Supreme and his eternal love for all souls grows vague and becomes impossible to understand.

 

[This message has been edited by ggohil (edited 11-15-2001).]

[mateo]

i repeat for the nth time that im not here to

argue over rhetoric or semantics nor am i against the kind of religion you profess what

ever i say here just take it or leave it. its

your conscience, my brother, who will do the

rest.

[mel9]

Mateo, don`t try to be discourteous and ease yourself a bit. Before you interact with someone whom you do not know, be polite in your words. How can you convince that Lord Jesus Christ is our Lord if you continue to act this way. Why don`t you just show them that you have the authority to convert the religious back to the Catholic fold. I know of a lot of Catholics who became Protestants because of dogmatic doctrines the Vatican want her flock to uphold. Like celibacy, divorce, the evil of using oral contraceptives in planning a family. These are sensitive issues that need an address, why its members should do this and that. But if you have it that such issues can be settled then the first step in what you do is try not to step on the shoes of others. That will help your mission in declaring to all that Christ is really our Lord.

 

[This message has been edited by mel9 (edited 11-15-2001).]

[ggohil]

Originally posted by mateo:

i repeat for the nth time that im not here to

argue over rhetoric or semantics nor am i against the kind of religion you profess what

ever i say here just take it or leave it. its

your conscience, my brother, who will do the

rest.

 

Ok, your statements are taken in the spirit intended.

 

Following statements are made in the same spirit.

 

“The material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, producing all moving and non-moving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.”

BG 9.10

 

“Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, become My devotee, offer obeisance to Me and

worship Me. Being completed absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.”

BG 9.34

 

[mahak]

Haribol, mateo, I am about to leave your topic here, but I must first challenge something you state.

 

"I repeat here for the nth time.As a re-

presentative of our Lord Jesus Christ, I`m

not challenging anyone who profess the Hindu

or Muslim faith. "

 

In the vaisnava tradition, statements like this are regarded as key to the cheating propensity. I question your position as "representative" of Lord Jesus Christ. Is this representation decided by a diploma from a theological institution, a self-appointment, or actual empowerment by He Who sent His Son.

 

You may disagree with my attempt here, but authority is demonstrated by Lord Jesus Christ's own words. You have presented yourself as authority, so if I put you to the test, you should not object.

 

In Vaisnava tradition (which also includes the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ absent the eccliastic pollution), "representation" and empowerment is shown by humility, first and foremost. The more one feels unqualified to represent the Supreme Lord, the more qualified (s)he becomes. The fully accepted acaryas, those whose empowerment is unquestioned, are those who truely feel the least qualified to represent the Supreme Lord.

 

So, your qualifications are hereby questioned, because I do not artificially accept you as the representative of Lord Jesus Christ. You have acted as his disciples when they became worried about seemingly competitive preachers they had heard. Lord Jesus did not approve of their comparisons and disdain, and admonished them saying, "Those who are not preaching against us are with us."

 

In questioning your self-stated authority, I am trying to follow the teachings of Lord Jesusw Christ that deal with authority. I cite them here, with short commentary following.

 

(Matt 10:25-30)

Lord Jesus Christ Prayed, "I praise You, Abah (Father), Lord of heaven and earth, because You hide from the learned scholars while revealing Yourself to the poor and needy. You have turned everything over to the Son, and nobody knows the Son except the Father, nor does anybody know the Father except the Son and those with ears to hear from the Son and are pleasing to the Son. All you poor and needy, come to the Son and I will refresh you. Take My Yoke (Yoga) upon you and learn from Me, because I am meek and modest and you may confide in Me. My Yoke is comfortable and My load is light."

 

Comment: This is a lesson of "gurudeva patita pavana". Guru's yoke is Yoga, His relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His desire is that the poor and needy share in the comfort of this relationship. The connection, yoke, yoga, linkage, is available to all, but only the vanquished can surrender. Those cursed with matter addiction (karmis), self-importance from academic success (jnanis), or mystic imitation of the Supreme Lord (yogis) do not attend the festivities of His calling, by their own foolish choices, thus Lord Jesus Christ is truely patita pavana, dearmost friend of those bereft of material fortune.

 

 

(Mark 11: 27-33)

The scholars, elders and priests were questioning Lord Jesus Christ thus: "Who gives You the power to do these things?" He responded, "I will answer on the condition you answer whether the baptism of John is heaven-sent or of human origin?"

 

The church leaders conferred among themselves, deciding both possible answers threatened their positions. Heaven-sent meant they denied the Will of the Supreme, human origin meant that they were to be attacked by the people, so they diplomatically answered, "We cannot tell."

 

Lord Jesus Christ then said, "Then I won't tell you either."

 

Comment: The lesson here is that authority of Gurudeva is never discussed among the faithless.

 

 

(Matt 8: 5-13)

As Lord Jesus Christ entered Capernaum, a Roman officer approached and requested His healing mercy. He agreed, and began following him, but the official said, "My Dear Lord, I have folks who are required to follow my orders, but You, Sir, are much beyond this realm. I do not deserve Your mercy, but, if You wish, say only the word and my son will be healed."

 

The Lord said to His followers, "I have not seen such trust in all of Judea. I predict that folks from East and West will dine with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, with My Father, but for those who may think that the Spiritual Realm belongs to a segment of society will be left in darkness. Go, My friend, your son is well and awaiting your arrival."

 

Comment: Sri Gurudeva comes to give Love of God to all without discrimination, he is never bound by sectarian ideas or imprisoned by the cultural bars of the ignorant.

 

 

(Matt 16: 15-19)

One day, Lord Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "Who do the people say that I am?" Looking to Simon Peter, He asked, "Who do you say I am?" Simon responded, "You are the annointed one, the Son of the Living Lord."

 

In response, The Lord said, "You are to be congratulated, Simon, son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father. You are the foundation of My mission that no one can overcome, and you possess the keys to both the eternal and temporal kingdoms. But you must not tell others that I am the annointed, for they must come to Me in the same way."

 

Comment: Only by the grace of God, one gets Guru. This is actual guru-tattwa, no appointment, election or permission needed, this is the empowerment of the disciple by the Supreme Lord Himself to have the ears to hear from His representative, purchased by the sincerity of the disciple alone.

 

 

(John 5: 60-65)

A certain teaching of Lord Jesus Christ caused some of the followers to question the content. Some grumbled that the teachings were offensive. The Lord knew who the grumblers were, and pointed out this fact: "This is why I told you. People cannot come to Me unless My Father has granted this."

 

Comment: This clear description of the fact, "By the grace of God, one gets guru", indicates that the sincerity of the disciple is absolutely necessary in the equasion called guru-tattwa. After this event, many of those who were pretending to follow, attracted by populist notions, left Him for good. He then asked His apostles, "Do you want to leave Me too?" Their response was evidence that their attraction to guru was based on the prerequisite sincerity, that the Supreme Father Himself empowered not only His Son to be Guru, but also empowered the disciples to hear from Him.

 

 

(John 7: 6-18)

The Judeans, always criticizing Lord Jesus Christ, were quite amazed at His preaching skills. Some said, "Here is a good man", while others scoffed, calling Him a cheater. They were thus fighting among themselves about His position. He then delivered a powerful lecture that stunned them all. They asked Him, "You are uneducated, how can You be so articulate?" The Lord responded, "What I am teaching does not originate from Me but with He Who sent Me. Anyone who does the Will of My Father knows well enough whether this teaching originates with God or whether I am speaking on My own authority. All who speak on their own authority are after praise for themselves. But for he who is only concerned with the praise of the One Who sent Him-He is truthful, there is nothing false about Him."

 

Comment: This is a clear, truthful description of Sri Gurudeva. He gives what He has been given, intact. His mastery is proven by His service, thus disciplic succession is the true guru-tattwa.

 

 

(John 8: 54)

"If I were to glorify Myself, that glory of Mine would mean nothing. But, in fact, My Father glorifies Me, and all who do His Will will see this relationship."

 

Comment: Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words to the masses who would do Him harm, those too conditioned to doing their own wills to be eligible for spiritual life. Similarly, if we so choose to remain entangled by our own desires, Guru remains unavailable, the lack of sincerity prevents one from associating with Guru, and all "official" gurus such materialists may "honor", by show only, have no empowerment to deliver. A bonafide spiritual master and the bonafide disciple are never separated, any such separation exists only in the imagination of the pretenders.

 

The sadhu, Lord Jesus Christ, actually teaches us all, as does Srila Prabhupada and His bonafide disciples, that YOGA means relationship, devoid of any ideas of lonliness. There is no possibility of being alone if one sincerely attempts to do the Will of the Supreme Person, for Guru Tattwa immediately takes place upon sincere desire to please Him, Sri Gurudeva becomes available at once to such fortunate souls who have become alive by the sounds of Harinama.

 

So, Mateo, I mean no offense here, but do declare that your attempt to show difference in Vaisnava philosophies is inappropriate. If you are in the service mode to "convert" those who are hedonists, or those who think God is illusory or that God Himself comes under the power of illusion, you have nothing but support from this writer. But if you use your small fund of knowledge to create sectarianism, then you are a great enemy of actual spiritual life.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by mahak:

Haribol, mateo, I am about to leave your topic here, but I must first challenge something you state.

 

"I repeat here for the nth time.As a re-

presentative of our Lord Jesus Christ, I`m

not challenging anyone who profess the Hindu

or Muslim faith. "

 

In the vaisnava tradition, statements like this are regarded as key to the cheating propensity. I question your position as "representative" of Lord Jesus Christ. Is this representation decided by a diploma from a theological institution, a self-appointment, or actual empowerment by He Who sent His Son.

 

You may disagree with my attempt here, but authority is demonstrated by Lord Jesus Christ's own words. You have presented yourself as authority, so if I put you to the test, you should not object.

 

In Vaisnava tradition (which also includes the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ absent the eccliastic pollution), "representation" and empowerment is shown by humility, first and foremost. The more one feels unqualified to represent the Supreme Lord, the more qualified (s)he becomes. The fully accepted acaryas, those whose empowerment is unquestioned, are those who truely feel the least qualified to represent the Supreme Lord.

 

So, your qualifications are hereby questioned, because I do not artificially accept you as the representative of Lord Jesus Christ. You have acted as his disciples when they became worried about seemingly competitive preachers they had heard. Lord Jesus did not approve of their comparisons and disdain, and admonished them saying, "Those who are not preaching against us are with us."

 

In questioning your self-stated authority, I am trying to follow the teachings of Lord Jesusw Christ that deal with authority. I cite them here, with short commentary following.

 

(Matt 10:25-30)

Lord Jesus Christ Prayed, "I praise You, Abah (Father), Lord of heaven and earth, because You hide from the learned scholars while revealing Yourself to the poor and needy. You have turned everything over to the Son, and nobody knows the Son except the Father, nor does anybody know the Father except the Son and those with ears to hear from the Son and are pleasing to the Son. All you poor and needy, come to the Son and I will refresh you. Take My Yoke (Yoga) upon you and learn from Me, because I am meek and modest and you may confide in Me. My Yoke is comfortable and My load is light."

 

Comment: This is a lesson of "gurudeva patita pavana". Guru's yoke is Yoga, His relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His desire is that the poor and needy share in the comfort of this relationship. The connection, yoke, yoga, linkage, is available to all, but only the vanquished can surrender. Those cursed with matter addiction (karmis), self-importance from academic success (jnanis), or mystic imitation of the Supreme Lord (yogis) do not attend the festivities of His calling, by their own foolish choices, thus Lord Jesus Christ is truely patita pavana, dearmost friend of those bereft of material fortune.

 

 

(Mark 11: 27-33)

The scholars, elders and priests were questioning Lord Jesus Christ thus: "Who gives You the power to do these things?" He responded, "I will answer on the condition you answer whether the baptism of John is heaven-sent or of human origin?"

 

The church leaders conferred among themselves, deciding both possible answers threatened their positions. Heaven-sent meant they denied the Will of the Supreme, human origin meant that they were to be attacked by the people, so they diplomatically answered, "We cannot tell."

 

Lord Jesus Christ then said, "Then I won't tell you either."

 

Comment: The lesson here is that authority of Gurudeva is never discussed among the faithless.

 

 

(Matt 8: 5-13)

As Lord Jesus Christ entered Capernaum, a Roman officer approached and requested His healing mercy. He agreed, and began following him, but the official said, "My Dear Lord, I have folks who are required to follow my orders, but You, Sir, are much beyond this realm. I do not deserve Your mercy, but, if You wish, say only the word and my son will be healed."

 

The Lord said to His followers, "I have not seen such trust in all of Judea. I predict that folks from East and West will dine with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, with My Father, but for those who may think that the Spiritual Realm belongs to a segment of society will be left in darkness. Go, My friend, your son is well and awaiting your arrival."

 

Comment: Sri Gurudeva comes to give Love of God to all without discrimination, he is never bound by sectarian ideas or imprisoned by the cultural bars of the ignorant.

 

 

(Matt 16: 15-19)

One day, Lord Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "Who do the people say that I am?" Looking to Simon Peter, He asked, "Who do you say I am?" Simon responded, "You are the annointed one, the Son of the Living Lord."

 

In response, The Lord said, "You are to be congratulated, Simon, son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father. You are the foundation of My mission that no one can overcome, and you possess the keys to both the eternal and temporal kingdoms. But you must not tell others that I am the annointed, for they must come to Me in the same way."

 

Comment: Only by the grace of God, one gets Guru. This is actual guru-tattwa, no appointment, election or permission needed, this is the empowerment of the disciple by the Supreme Lord Himself to have the ears to hear from His representative, purchased by the sincerity of the disciple alone.

 

 

(John 5: 60-65)

A certain teaching of Lord Jesus Christ caused some of the followers to question the content. Some grumbled that the teachings were offensive. The Lord knew who the grumblers were, and pointed out this fact: "This is why I told you. People cannot come to Me unless My Father has granted this."

 

Comment: This clear description of the fact, "By the grace of God, one gets guru", indicates that the sincerity of the disciple is absolutely necessary in the equasion called guru-tattwa. After this event, many of those who were pretending to follow, attracted by populist notions, left Him for good. He then asked His apostles, "Do you want to leave Me too?" Their response was evidence that their attraction to guru was based on the prerequisite sincerity, that the Supreme Father Himself empowered not only His Son to be Guru, but also empowered the disciples to hear from Him.

 

 

(John 7: 6-18)

The Judeans, always criticizing Lord Jesus Christ, were quite amazed at His preaching skills. Some said, "Here is a good man", while others scoffed, calling Him a cheater. They were thus fighting among themselves about His position. He then delivered a powerful lecture that stunned them all. They asked Him, "You are uneducated, how can You be so articulate?" The Lord responded, "What I am teaching does not originate from Me but with He Who sent Me. Anyone who does the Will of My Father knows well enough whether this teaching originates with God or whether I am speaking on My own authority. All who speak on their own authority are after praise for themselves. But for he who is only concerned with the praise of the One Who sent Him-He is truthful, there is nothing false about Him."

 

Comment: This is a clear, truthful description of Sri Gurudeva. He gives what He has been given, intact. His mastery is proven by His service, thus disciplic succession is the true guru-tattwa.

 

 

(John 8: 54)

"If I were to glorify Myself, that glory of Mine would mean nothing. But, in fact, My Father glorifies Me, and all who do His Will will see this relationship."

 

Comment: Lord Jesus Christ spoke these words to the masses who would do Him harm, those too conditioned to doing their own wills to be eligible for spiritual life. Similarly, if we so choose to remain entangled by our own desires, Guru remains unavailable, the lack of sincerity prevents one from associating with Guru, and all "official" gurus such materialists may "honor", by show only, have no empowerment to deliver. A bonafide spiritual master and the bonafide disciple are never separated, any such separation exists only in the imagination of the pretenders.

 

The sadhu, Lord Jesus Christ, actually teaches us all, as does Srila Prabhupada and His bonafide disciples, that YOGA means relationship, devoid of any ideas of lonliness. There is no possibility of being alone if one sincerely attempts to do the Will of the Supreme Person, for Guru Tattwa immediately takes place upon sincere desire to please Him, Sri Gurudeva becomes available at once to such fortunate souls who have become alive by the sounds of Harinama.

 

So, Mateo, I mean no offense here, but do declare that your attempt to show difference in Vaisnava philosophies is inappropriate. If you are in the service mode to "convert" those who are hedonists, or those who think God is illusory or that God Himself comes under the power of illusion, you have nothing but support from this writer. But if you use your small fund of knowledge to create sectarianism, then you are a great enemy of actual spiritual life.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

Mahak prabhu:

How would you use Vaishnava philosophy to explain the apparently exclusionistic words in the Bible attributed to Jesus Christ like:"I am the way, the truth and the life,no man cometh to the Father except by Me."?

 

 

[valaya]

Originally posted by leyh:

Mahak prabhu:

How would you use Vaishnava philosophy to explain the apparently exclusionistic words in the Bible attributed to Jesus Christ like:"I am the way, the truth and the life,no man cometh to the Father except by Me."?

 

 

Wasn't that explained already? The key to realization is submissive inquiry...Mahaksadas, suggest you save yourself the trouble of a detailed explanation without first checking my previous reply to this same question from Leyh. The thread is ` Topic: I'm the Way, Truth and Life.`

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000823.html

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by valaya (edited 11-16-2001).]

[mahak]

No prob, bro, just a short explanation. Via medium is in al relationships. Offend the son, and the father is not pleased, offend the father, the son has nothing to do with you. The key is what many christians cannot grasp for lack of submissive inquiry unto a lover of god. Jesus did nothing but demonstrate his relationship of love with his father, the relationship (rasa)is everything. So of course, there is no spiritual life while neglecting the relationship between the lover and the beloved. So, leyh citation is ever valid. haribol, ys, mahak

[mel9]

let`s respect saktyavesa avatar, lord jesus christ preached mayavada philosophy so people could step up unto his platform of being one with the father christ. it`s a step

one rung higher than being called an animal.

animals don`t have the intelligence to reach the stage of liberation from the material body. humans however are an exception. that`s why lord jesus christ preached mayavadism so that his followers would at least value human life. before christ the people were always at war, no peace in sight where one could take a breather. but when christ appeared before men he was able to convert the people how to love one another instead of killing each other. of course one reasons that life is eternal and therefore they reasoned that if we die today there`s no need to worry since the self takes up another body in the next life where it is given another chance to enjoy and eventually lord over the material creation.

christ on the other hand treated the sick and repaired his followers`s ailing bodies. in other words lord jesus christ was a physician who swore to uphold the sacredness of human life that it`s made in the image of god the almighty.

there are confidential scriptures written by lord jesus` scribes stating that the former may have been a vaishnava who took up the role of a margi, a follower of sankaracarya

who is lord shiva himself.

you must remember that lord shiva is one of the twelve mahajanas of lord krsna who is acknowledged by lord chaitanya as the supreme personality of godhead. in other words a devotee of lord shiva is also a vaishnava if he protects the devotees of lord krsna from demons like kamsa, ravana, hiranyakasipu, etc.

to criticize therefore a follower of christ even if one`s faith has not fully matured can not yet be considered a first class devotee of lord krsna. its an offense to think that he`s above everyone else in experiencing what god has done to him in this life. nothing can be further from the truth.

[Janus]

I picked up a second book today by a second author who had also pretty much made a convincing case (as the first author had done), that Christianity wasn't started by Jesus, but was invented by Paul.

The first book didn't try to picture Paul as a Shaman however, but more as an "innovator", creating something new and not at all anything that Jesus himself had intended.

This new proposition that Jesus was a Shaman, that he was possessed of a spirit is pretty much in accordance with the general view of him held by Christendom and pretty much supports his own claim that Paul was a Shaman for a Shamna must have at least one spirit at his or her beck and command.

The problem is that Paul started a new religion that Jesus would have regarded as being idolatrous, claiming as it did that a man was God. What then was the true nature of the spirit possessing Paul? Was it indeed "holy"?

I found it interesting that Paul considered that there was another spirit laying about besides the spirit possessing him, but although he did upon occaision mention the devil he reffered to this other spirit as being Sin rather than personifying it.

Is there any reference in the Vedas to a Jesus avatara?

[Tarun]

Mateoji: we had a temple in San Mateo, CA 1985-7.

One could call it a sannyAsazram:

6 sannyAsis, 8 brahmacaris

Quite ideal till one 'renunciate' decided to invest:

Hard earned sankIrtan laxmi in oil futures.

That was the end of that Heaven on Earth.

That Swami could not comprehend Jesus Christ's instructions.

"Give unto Cesar what is Cesar's, give unto KRSNa what is God's.

What to speak of Christ-kathA.

Not even Popeye's pravachan:

"Leave well enough alone (boop boop), leave well enough alone."

Who can?

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by leyh:

Mahak prabhu:

How would you use Vaishnava philosophy to explain the apparently exclusionistic words in the Bible attributed to Jesus Christ like:"I am the way, the truth and the life,no man cometh to the Father except by Me."?

 

 

There was something called 'the Jesus Seminar', approximatley 10 years back, where various Christian theologians determined through computer carbon dating which quotes attributed to Jesus actually came from him. Apparently the above quote (the only Way, Truth and Light) was recorded long after the original recording of the Bible (which was written some 50 years after Christ's departure), leading the scholars of the Jesus Seminar to conclude that Jesus 'probably' never spoke those words. Which makes a lot of sense, in that Jesus must have had a universal understanding of God appearing in many forms, under many names, and that 'all paths lead to Me' as more truthful and less (apparently) egotistical. Jesus would have to know that the 'only one way' theory would cause religious splinters and endless arguments about who and what is 'the only true Way'.

 

[mahak]

Why mince words here? There are many quotes of a similar nature, but none are meant to convey a sectarian feeling whatsoever. As far as what is actually the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, there is difficulty in any understanding unless one is hearing from a source free from materialistic motive.

 

When delving into the mission of Lord Jesus Christ, such ulterior motives are seen everywhere, from the Knights Templar vs. Papacy versions of authenticity, to the vast differences in versions of Abyssinian, Eurocentric, and Byzantine nature. So, it behooves anyone interested in such topics to hear from an authentic source (ie, lover of God). If not, one is subject to the types of religiosity established by Jonestown religionists, ethnic klanzing (spelling intended) type baptists, congregation dominators, just useless crap.

 

Truth, way, and life is not a threat at all, it is a fact. One can demand to see God, but God has no obligation to be subserviant to such demands. However, because all theology is based on the fact that the Supreme Person is attracted to one's loving feelings toward Himself, and reciprocates accordingly by showing himself, establishment of loving relationship with one who is doing the Father's business is good advise, indeed, there is no flaw in the statement.

 

I object to the poor fund of knowledge that stated that Jesus taught impersonalism or mayavadi, and then is even more foolish to state that this is a positive step. That is not a fact, nor is believing that God is subject to material nature a step in any direction other than complete forgetfulness of one's inherant spiritual nature. Lord Jesus had nothing to do with such philosophy in any way, shape, or form. If one insists that He did teach that the self is illusion or that Maya is Supreme, state your case now or admit that you were greatly mistaken.

 

Whatcha think, Valaya, maybe it is time to give up on this topic? I like the subject, but preaching to the faithless if forbidden by Lord Jesus Christ, so perhaps it is ill advised to continue in this format.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[mateo]

jesus christ is my lord and my savior and i

believe nothing can`t change what i believe in. i`d rather commit suicide if jesus christ is no longer our lord. but he is, now

and forever. my father, melvin, used to recall how swami prabhupad was called by his devotees as swamiji, a name given to him by a child when he was in the agarwal`s home in boston, usa after he arrived from india. the name swamiji being referred here to was: swamijesus. and that was according to my father, dr. melvin, a.c. bhaktivedanta swami prabhupad was! yet nobody believed in him as our lord and savior when he came as an incarnation of god. what a shame to those who profess to be a devotee and yet miss the boat to heaven after that fateful day of september 11, 2001. praise the lord!