Why does everyone always blame the Jews?

[stonehearted]

Pritha: recently I have heard Satyaraja is not so much believing in Krishna or Prabhupada anymore, that he made some

comment he merely knows how to write the books and its a form of income for him, but he doesn't always agree with

what he writes! Tho to a degree he may still be somewhat of a devotee, but he has really fallen away.

 

Such reports should be confirmed before being disseminated. Otherwise, we risk engaging in rumor-mongering.

[Kulapavana]

I'm not sure what SP said on this subject, but I presented 4 general arguments against this idea. Without addressing any of them you jump to neo-nazi movements in the same breath. Even if it is a mere "observation" on your part the timing is interesting. Cant say that it suprises me though.

Aryan Revival Movement is my idea. I have been presenting for about a year and there is precious little you can google on it... But rest assured, it has nothing to do with neo-nazi movements.

[stonehearted]

I should probably have acknowledged your points. The timing is a matter, I think, of critical mass. After a certain number of posts referencing Jews and Aryan Revival, a question may naturally arise in the readers' minds. It never occurred to me before with regard to your idea.

 

And I think the idea of a Google search was yours. You wrote, "For now just learn about it (Vedic Aryan concepts) - plenty of stuff you can google on this subject and SPREAD THE WORD!" I was just following your suggestion. My search term was "Aryan Revival." I got, as I said, nothing I expected you to want to identify with. There was some Aryan Invasion stuff, but it was mostly related to German paganism and "aryanism," Wotan and aryanism, and the kind of things a couple of my former students may have been into.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I you don't even need to disavow such connections. As I said, I was mostly making an observation on the result of following your suggestion.

[theist]

I had always heard that too and believed it until recently.

 

Letter to: Nayanabhirama

--

London

22 August, 1971

71-08-22

Philadelphia

My Dear Nayana Bhirama,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 16th August, 1971 and have noted the contents carefully. Also I have received your check for $25.00 and I thank you very much for the same. Yes, if it is approved by the GBC then I have no objection if you and your wife go to Israel to help out there. Philadelphia temple has improved nicely under your supervision. So for the time being continue to develop it nicely. Nothing should be done hastily or haphazardly. Then when the temple is very firmly situated I have no objection for your going. So do the needful and ask Krishna to help you.

 

Because there is some similarity of the word Jew and Yadu so some historian or scholar, so called, created this notion. I have read it also in some paper. But even it is true, we have nothing to do with it. Lord Krishna killed his own dynasty under His personal supervision. So certainly Krishna didn't like the idea that future dynasties would be able to identify having Krishna's blood. Krishna has no material blood; neither He is different from His body. The example is given that Malayan sandalwood is famous as grown in Malaya but the fact is that sandalwood can grow anywhere. Nowadays in Malaya there are only rubber trees but still in the market the sandalwood is known as Malayan sandalwood. Similarly a family may become famous for Krishna taking birth in that family but Krishna is independent and can appear anywhere and everywhere, where His devotees are.

 

Hoping this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

ACBS/adb

[Priitaa]

 

Pritha: recently I have heard Satyaraja is not so much believing in Krishna or Prabhupada anymore, that he made some

comment he merely knows how to write the books and its a form of income for him, but he doesn't always agree with

what he writes! Tho to a degree he may still be somewhat of a devotee, but he has really fallen away.

 

Such reports should be confirmed before being disseminated. Otherwise, we risk engaging in rumor-mongering.

 

 

Babru,

 

I always check anything out like that before I state it in public. Have a little faith in me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I received copies of his personal posts that said like this. I wish it were as you are hoping for, but that was not the case. Maybe in time he will gradually work his way up to that point, and then, further.

[Guest guest]

I met Satyaraja once at the New York ISKCON temple. Right after my friend introduced me to him, the first thing Satyaraja did was to ask me to to his Journal of Vaishnava Studies. Not even a hello, how do you do, where are you from, or anything like that. I was pretty turned off.

 

 

[Guest guest]

though I should clarify that this has nothing to do with blaming jews or anything like that. It was just a response to Prita's comment about him.

[stonehearted]

Sorry. I didn't mean to insult you. It's just theat "recently I have heard" doesn't sound particularly authoritative. Perhaps that's due to my training as a writer and writing teacher.

 

Would you mind writing me privately and sharing some sources?

 

I remember that my friend Govinda dasi once asked our godsister Vibhavati (who's also a writer) if she saw herself as a devotee who's a writer or a writer who's a devotee. Vibhavati replied with the latter. It may be simlar with Satyaraja.

[Priitaa]

Babru, I wasn't insulted, no problem. I just thought it may appear I love to spread gossip so I wanted to clear that. Actually, I would not have mentioned it if the comment had not been made that Jews are even considered superior birth by Prabhupada, and Satyaraja was used as an example of this superiority. Thus, my retort. Although if Satyaraja did not write and sell us books, I would not find it as important. And I like his books! Well, I have hope and faith that every devotee, even if they make a mistake, can be forgiven and turn things around.

 

But I do understand how "I heard" sounds unfounded. (Hmmm I thought I said I received it in email, but oh well.) I hve since deleted the eamils for one, and for the other, even if I had them, I wasn't so sure I wanted to post his private info on here, tho I guess he posted it in public himself!

 

I can email you about it as you asked, as I dont want to say my source here. But I am trying to get the posts back so if you want to wait and see if I can, I will put at least some of them here. Enough to make the point. Let me know.

[Kulapavana]

I said: "For now just learn about it (Vedic Aryan concepts) - plenty of stuff you can google on this subject"

The hint was to use "Vedic Aryan" as the search phrase.

 

As to your other comments: it is a common Pawlow reaction of associating anything Aryan with nazi ideology. Certain intersts were hard at work for over 7 decades to brainwash people in that way.

 

And finally to the issue of Jews being descendants of Yadu's: I hope SP's letter will lay this matter to rest. Thanks for posting it! But it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

[Guest guest]

"As to your other comments: it is a common Pawlow reaction of associating anything Aryan with nazi ideology"

 

you are surely right, when i hear the word aryan and when i see a swastika i have some problems.. even if i am (badly) practising krsna consciousness from 20 years

[Kulapavana]

Guest: "when i hear the word aryan and when i see a swastika i have some problems"

 

Yes, nazis grossly missused and twisted Aryan concepts and symbols and even seemingly mature and well informed devotees cringe when they hear the word Aryan or see the proper swasti mark on Sri-Yantras. Does it mean that we should cave in to the politically correct crowd and pretend such symbols and words are not a part of our Vedic tradition? Some people cringe when they hear the word "gurukula". Should we avoid it as well?

[Guest guest]

you are surely right... but we have also to say that the most important thing (actually the only important thing) is to spread hare krishna mantra..

 

i should not want to loose any newcomer to krishna consciousness for the sake of putting somewhere (temple, altars, pictures of krsna, fire yajna, clothes, flags) a sign of swastika

 

so, let us be not shy of vedic culture but let us know that we are not here to challeng but for chanting and make others chant hare krishna.. everything else is not so important

[Kulapavana]

Certainly: chanting of the Holy Names comes first, but we need to follow up with a broad base social structure. I will give you an example. If you were to believe a recent survey of religious affiliations in Poland, close to 50,000 people consider themselves to be "Hare Krishna". This is without doubt chiefly due to massive festival efforts of devotees like Indradyumna Maharaja. But the temples are struggling financially and have very few full time devotees. I think it is about time we started to work on creating a broad base social support movement to change that. The Aryan Revival Movement is an attempt along those lines.

[Guest guest]

Big ambitions tend to lead to big letdowns. Slow and steady has its appeal, however.

 

Start with training up one person (yourself) and then work on training up two other people very nicely. Each of those individuals should then train up two more people each, and like that the movement will expand predictably - but not by filling itself with people who shave up one day and leave the very next - but rather with people who have strong conviction and stronger desire to see it through.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

These are good points prabhu. I have been training myself since 1979 when I received my first initiation. I hope I'm about ready now ;-)

At one time most of Iskcon temples were full of devotees, they are quite empty now. The NY Brooklyn temple has like 6 devotees and all of them are imported from Eastern Europe. So much for "slow and steady".. ;-)

[stonehearted]

I don't think it's accurate to characterize my reaction as Pavlovian. It has been a couple of weeks (maybe more) since you started using the Aryan Revival signature (and is it not meant to be alitle provocative?), and I only raised the question after more than a few posts mentioning Jews.

 

As for eschewing the word aryan and the swastika, as brought up by another poster, I've always spoken against that. It's part of our business to show that aryan culture has nothing to do with the German paganism and antisemitism associated with the word over the last 70-odd years. That some devotees have tried to minimize Hitler's evil and show antisemitic sentiments hasn't helped.

[stonehearted]

Kulapavana: If you were to believe a recent survey of religious affiliations in Poland, close to 50,000 people consider themselves to be "Hare Krishna". This is without doubt chiefly due to massive festival efforts of devotees like Indradyumna Maharaja.

 

This comment ignores the everyday efforts over decades of Siddhasvrupananda and his associates, primarily Tusta Krishna prabhu and now Balakhilya. After all, when ISKCON was on the ropes in court there, it was Tusta and company who came to offer enormous help.

[stonehearted]

If Satyaraja posted something about this in public, could you direct me to it? And if you find the emails, please forward them to me at williamr@hawaii.edu

 

I don't think it's necessary to discuss this here and unnecessarily clutter this thread. I agree with the others that Satyaraja's life has for a long time been about promoting himself as a great writer. He's a good writer, and prolific, and clever about exploiting other situations to promote hinslef (i.e., the whole Bagger Vance thing), but I don't think he's a great writer. I do, however, admire his dedication to his craft.

[stonehearted]

Kulapavana: it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

 

And this is unique to Jews? The English, the Germans, the French (God, you name the group) all show this so plainly that it's remarkable to ignore it.

[Kulapavana]

Yes, I have a very high oppinion about efforts of Siddhasvarupananda and his disciples and associates all over the world. When I was in Poland 3 years ago I talked to several of his disciples and went on Harinam with them. It was very refreshing to see these young enthusiastic devotees perform great sounding kirtan. I certainly did not intend to take the credit away from them. I just used an example most devotees know about.

[Kulapavana]

Kulapavana: it also goes to show you that one of the things people criticize Jews for - considering themselves of superior birth as a race = racism by classic definition - does not stop at the doors of our temples.

 

Stonehearted: "And this is unique to Jews? The English, the Germans, the French (God, you name the group) all show this so plainly that it's remarkable to ignore it."

 

There is a difference between racism (considering themselves belonging to a superior race) and national pride as demonstrated by citizens of many powerful nations. In either case it is just a material consciousness. Anyway, I think we can safely drop this subject...

[yasodanandana]

"If you were to believe a recent survey of religious affiliations in Poland, close to 50,000 people consider themselves to be "Hare Krishna"

 

this is mostly important, spreading the holy name, the problem with temples are secondary

 

prabhupada said that the purpose of a temple is to teach others to make a temple of their houses and lifes, so i am relatively not so concerned if these temples reduce their people, size or numbers if the goal to have so many people chanting hare krishna is achieved and it is extremely good

 

the vedic society will follow soon as an automatism, if i chant hare krishna, chaitya guru from the heart fulfills the natural desire to have the association of others practitioneers, the devotees.. and the devotees will find the system to congregate, no problem

 

my english is not so good, i do not know many subtleties so excuse me if i am not so subtle as i'd want but:

 

you are an initiated devotee, please work for spreading harinama and please avoid to scandalize people using terms and concepts that , for now, are not very well accepted

 

everything: temples, culture, vedas, varnashrama, archana, sarees, dothis, pakora and sandesh, yantras and svastikas are inside the holy name of the lord

 

 

 

[Kulapavana]

Yasodanandana: "you are an initiated devotee, please work for spreading harinama and please avoid to scandalize people using terms and concepts that , for now, are not very well accepted"

I have been working to spread Harinama since 1979 and plan to continue. I apologize if I scandalized anybody here with "not very well accepted terms". Lord Caitanya's mission moves on many fronts and we all have a place in that mission to fill. Plenty of room for all sincere efforts... and enough criticism. Neglect of social and cultural side of this movement is already bearing it's bitter fruits. Do you not see them?

 

 

[yasodanandana]

no... the problem of the hare krsna movement(s) are the offences to the holy name.. especially vaishnava aparadha (=wars among devotees)..... (of course i am the first and the more offensive)

 

if we do not chant hare krishna social and cultural aspects will not help us... if we do chant, they will follow naturally

 

aryan means pure devotee of krsna