stonehearted Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 yasodanandana: please avoid to scandalize people using terms and concepts that , for now, are not very well accepted. . . . everything: temples, culture, vedas, varnashrama, archana, sarees, dothis, pakora and sandesh, yantras and svastikas are inside the holy name of the lord. yasodanandana prabhu, I don't think Kulapavana's purpose is to scandalize anyone. I think his deliberate use of Aryan is meant to be provocative, but, I hope, in the sense of thought provoking. If he can lure folks to Srila Prabhupada's books, they will see that, as he says, the propaganda of Nazia and neo-Nazis of the last 80 years will be shown as just the foolish bodily consciousness Srila Prabhupada repeatedly says it is. I'm willing to encourage him in his effort, especially if carried out in good company and with careful guidance, and see where it goes. There is of course some danger that it may be misunderstood, but that's always there in Kali yuga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Thank you for understanding stonehearted prabhu. Yes, the word "Aryan" was chosen deliberatly by me for it's thought provoking potential on top of it's true meaning. Very often I manage to create positive interest in the Vedic message in people for whom this word really means something: good... or bad. The longing for ideal society is expressed by many people, and in many ways. Some of these expressions are very perverted (like in neo-nazis), yet the longing is there and can be used to present Krishna consciousness to these people. One of the things that attracted me to Prabhupada many years ago was his revolutionary social message. That part of his mission is still unfulfilled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Kulapavana: The longing for ideal society is expressed by many people, and in many ways. . . . One of the things that attracted me to Prabhupada many years ago was his revolutionary social message. Along with the maha-mantra, I was very attracted by a couple of things. One was the idea expressed in the SB 1.1.2 purport quotation I use as a signature here. Another was Srila Prabhupada's accurate characterization of Kali-yuga late in the 1st Canto (that, the abridged Gita, and TLLC were the extent of our books when I joined) and his assertion that the only way to oevercome Kali's influence was constant chanting of Krishna's holy names. There was also the Bhagavatam's assertion that is is meant to effect a revolution in our hearts. And yet another was his idea of a society founded on cleaniness, austerity, mercy, and truthfulness. These together showed me that this was the revolution for which we were all looking. So even though I had already promised myself I would never join anything again (I had gotten out of the Navy a few months before), I found myself moving into the Honolulu temple in early 1970, some time before Gaura Purnima. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 "yasodanandana prabhu, I don't think Kulapavana's purpose is to scandalize anyone. I think his deliberate use of Aryan is meant to be provocative, but, I hope, in the sense of thought provoking." yes.. and i apologize with you and kulapavana prabhu, this is due to my little english vocabulary.. provocative is much better then scandalizing but i repeat, i am in a country where so much people were killed by nazi and fascists, where now these things are newly coming out in politics..... i do not want that even one guest approaching the mahamantra would be disturbed by secondary things like swastik or something like that a very well known italian devotee architecht (prabhupada's disciple) was telling to me about harikesha that, building nrsmha ksetra temple room (germany!!!), wanted to decorate with svastiks...... ehem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I certainly understand your sensitvity, as well as any Jews who may be put off by these things. Harikesha wanting to decorate the temple in Germany with swastikas shouldn't be much of a surprise, I guess, for those of us who have seen evidence of his mental state for a long time. Even though he had such problems, he did a lot on Srila Prabhupada's behalf. It's too bad his other exploits tend to obscure that in many ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 No apology needed Yasodanandana, and I'm quite used to this kind of reaction in many devotees. Once the initial shock wears out they all see the light. I do not use the swasti yantra at all in my presentations. That would be seriously overdoing it... ;-) Regarding the use of swastiks in Lord Nrisimha temple in Bavaria: it would have blended perfectly with this fierce and beautiful black form of Lord Krishna, and I'm sure it would have endeared us to the locals, but swastik display is illegal in Germany (humor intended). Half of my family was killed fighting nazis in WW2 and believe me I understand the sensitivities and have no personal inclination in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 yes harikesha did a lot... i am sorry if i gave the impression to criticize this devote in all his service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 no prabhu, i have not reactions like many devotees... simply i am italian and i do not know 100 ways to say the same thing in english devotees are different, and devotees see the light in every moment i apologize.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Actually I think the "slow and steady" model is one ISKCON should adopt, rather than the one it is using currently. The trend in ISKCON and other sister societies is to go out and do widespread chanting and preaching - a very glorious endeavor indeed. But once people start showing an interest and decide they want to live in the temple, the devotees turn their attention away from the "new recruits" to look for more. The result is that newbies to the temple don't get much close attention or personal cultivation, and often end up getting burnt out and leaving. The same is true of guru-disciple relationships. The trend has been for gurus to have many disciples all over the world, with the result being that it is impossible to stay in any one area for too long and cultivate any of them. Of course, the above are generalizations. But the older paradigm has much we can learn from: children were enrolled at the age of 5 in a gurukula and studied the Vedas for at least 12 years if not more, and learned them thoroughly before moving on to other stages of life which would expose them to more sense gratification. Perhaps Gaudiya Mathas and ISKCON branches could follow a similar model: bring new recruits in, cultivate them by engaging them in systematic study of our core scriptures over several years, and only after a certain mastery of the literature (say, BG As It Is for 1st initiation and SB +/- CC for 2nd initiation) should initiation be given, along with the accompanying responsibilities. Of course, during the period of "cultivation," the disciples can be engaged in other services as well. The key component is systematic teaching of the canonical Gaudiya literatures. The result would be mature understanding and hopefully stronger conviction (and hopefully less fanaticism). All of these are ideas only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 This is my opinion on why everyone blames the Jews and why they have throughout history been targeted. I am a Christian and have much respect and admiration for them, as I believe they are Gods chosen, and the apple of His eye. Therefore the answer is simple, they are hated because Satan hates anything that has to do with God and His son, who happened to be Jewish, and whether people believe or not Satan is the father of all lies and he puts hatred for Israel and Jews in peoples hearts and minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2004 Report Share Posted March 12, 2004 the sad fact is, the jews have been persecuted as long as religion has been around. they have never had their own country, never had their own spacce, and so other religions and countries always felt their territory was ebing invaded by the jews. we all know the questioning of jesus? what happened? who is to blame? really, no one can be held responsibe. this happened over 2000 years ago-... it was everyones fault... as for the holocaust and since then... it still goes back to the jews not hvaing their own land, but also, the end of ww1 caused the blame of many jews coming from the german army. the german army was very angry that they pulled out of ww1, and my right wing army groups started pointing the finger at the jews. - in germany, post ww1 conditions were horrible. the country was in a depression, and the jews were the only people with any money. they were all the bankers, merchants, etc. so, these starving germans would have to sell much of their valubles such as jewlrey (wedding rings), paintings, etc. the jews were almost used as pawn shops cause they would collect these things and in return give the germans money for it. the germans felt that they were getting an inadequate amount for the valubles they handed over, but their desperate need for money left them no choice. so, they walked away angry at the jews, and actually - thats were the term "you're being a jew" came from, meaning that they are cheap. a lot of agression was acting toward the jews for jealousy of their money, and ww1- and thats the reason for most of the recent persecution...if this was any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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