Can Human Clones Provide Immortality?

[Guest guest]

 

For certain human clones are bound to karma. A deep understand of the meaning of karma leads one to conclude that karma are but ritualistic acts that some believe to be the direct cause of immortality or mukti.

 

Are these ritualistic acts the cause of immortality or mukti? If so a human clone that could increase one’s longevity would be very helpful, as one could stay at the Earth performing these religious practices as long as he wishes, until he finally attain mukti and everlasting happiness.

 

But the scriptures (sruti texts) point out that vidya (God-knowledge) is the cause of that immortality. Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.8) states: “(Knowing Him verily one goes beyond the death) There is no other path to walk upon.”

The Purusa-sukta also states: “Knowing Him verily one becomes immortal here.”

And some texts states that both things may be the cause of immortality: “As the birds move in the sky with the help of both wings, so a man becomes mukta by the conjoint help of religion (karma) and vidya.”

 

Some states that vidya (God-knowledge) is secondary or rather it stands to religion in a supplementary relation.

 

But what is the real cause of immortality?

 

According to Badarayana Rsi (Vyasadeva) in his Vedanta-sutra (3.3.48): “Vidya alone is verily the cause of immortality, because scripture (sruti) mentions it exclusively.”

 

Baladeva, a very proeminent Gaudiya-acarya, while commenting this sutra (vidya eva tu tat nirdharanat), states:

 

“The word ‘tu’ is used in the sutra in order to remove the doubt above raised. Vidya alone is the cause of immortality (mukti) and neither religion (karma) nor the combination of religion and knowledge. In the above, the particle eva ‘alone’ indicates that vidya and only vidya leads to immortality.”

 

Baladeva, as a Vaisnava, states that vidya means devotion preceded by knowledge: “by being devoted to Him, having fully known His essence, let one practice devotion.”

 

Baladeva has given some more clarification: “This moksa, moreover, is brought about by the direct perception of the Lord and an external object, that is to say, by the perception of the Lord in the same way as one sees an object which is exterior to himself. So long this external visual perception does not take place, there is no mukti, nor immortality.”

 

And the Vedanta-sutra (3.3.49) corroborates this statement by Baladeva:

 

“And this mukti takes place by seeing Hari.”

 

Therefore human clone itself cannot be even a remote cause of immortality or mukti.

 

Any comment on that thesis?

 

[This message has been edited by Satyaraja dasa (edited 11-26-2001).]

[Gauracandra]

Here are a few thoughts. First as I understand it, based on the consciousness of the parents at the time of conception, a particular soul enters into the body of the unborn child.

 

Now what happens when there are no parents? When the sterile environment of a test tube is where a child is brought into existence. Certainly a certain kind of personality would come from such a conception.

 

As for immortality, to quote Kansas "Who wants to live forever?". We may think we will have more time to perfect ourselves, but if we believe in reincarnation, then we will just continue on our path in the next life. Thus whether we live 1 life for 1000 years, or 10 lives for 100 years, does it really matter in the end? If we make a little progress we will start from that point in our next endeavor.

 

I remember reading a few years back about some experiments with fruit flys. Scientists often use fruit flys because they have such short life spans (like 1 day). Basically what they did was mate those fruit flies that lived the longest to one another. Over and over after many cycles they were able to double the life span of a fruit fly to 2 days. Still the fruit fly would eventually die.... "Who wants to live forever?"

[Guest guest]

 

Gauracandra: Now what happens when there are no parents? When the sterile environment of a test tube is where a child is brought into existence. Certainly a certain kind of personality would come from such a conception.

 

Satyaraj: For certain a clone has parents, as he is coming from embryonic cells made by other living beings who should be considered his parents.

 

The Vedanta 3.3.53 states that death is common to all but it does not mean mukti or immortality. Death is only the attainment of some other particular region of enjoyment. Mukti is attained only by direct perception of Hari.

Smrtis are done from this sutra (Vedanta 3.3.53) stating that the destruction of linga-sarira, or the subtle body is the cause of this direct perception of Hari. Only vidya or God-knowledge can destroy all karmas and therefore it can also destroys the linga-sarira.

 

This linga-sarira is formed by the samskaras, or previous impressions that the jiva has gotten into the material world and they are working continuously to cause samsara, or transmigration after death. Samskaras are caused by karma-vasana, or the desire to realize selfish activities. Karma-vasana is considered as the root of material life according to some schools of thought.

The personality that one may have at the time of a birth or conception is caused by these samskaras from his previous lifetimes. Actually the personality and the state of conscience of his parents at the time of conception may attract someone with the proper samskaras to that specific environment, but parent’s conscience are not the cause of any previous sanskara themselves.

 

For certain the answer to explain why those people are coming by clones is to be given trough the cycle of transmigration that they are following according to the five ‘oblations of water.’ Have you ever heard about those different cycles of transmigration?