Modern Architecture & Sacred Space

[Gauracandra]

Some months back I started a posting on this topic. In the subsequent time I've done some research on the internet of various modern interpretations of church design. Quite frankly, its been a bit disappointing as mostly church buildings stick with the tried and true.

 

Anyways, here is a really interesting church that is being designed by a spanish architect named Calatrava. It is very odd in one sense, but at the same time I admire the total reinterpretation of a building of worship.

 

Here is a quote on its design:

 

Calatrava's design will have movable glass-and-steel sections. "The idea was for a building that would be like a pair of hands," Calatrava says. "The hands can be brought together in prayer or they can be opened to the sky."

And now some pictures:

 

 

Gauracandra

Edited July 2, 2015 by The Editor

[Gauracandra]

Here is another interesting church design I found on the Internet. Its a Mormon temple in San Diego.

 

 

Anyone else know of some really modern interpretations of spiritual buildings? There is the Aurobindo building I've seen but I never felt it had much elegance, or aesthetic appeal.

 

Gauracandra

Edited July 2, 2015 by The Editor

[Gauracandra]

The Iskcon Bangalore temple is another example of using modern architecture with some traditional design. The "metalic" glass is an interesting design element. Here's a picture:

 

 

Gauracandra

[stonehearted]

Thanks for the picture of the Bangalore ISKCON temple. It's a beautiful synthesis of the old and the new.

 

The San Diego Mormon Temple, on the other hand, is a striking but ugly building. I get what it's trying to do, but it's an eyesore. Inside, it's even worse. It's motel kitsch. I've been inside the Mormon Temple on the Leeward side of O'ahu, in Hawai'i. It's much more tastefully done than the San Diego temple.

[Gauracandra]

Stonehearted,

 

I've heard similar things about the interior of Mormon temples - that they resemble high end hotels. I must be honest, and there is no offense intended to Mormons, but I tend to find their temples not particularly attractive. They tend to be very blocky and square.

 

If anyone wants to see all of their temples here is a site:

 

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/

 

I actually like the look of this San Diego temple. But I can understand your point. Perhaps it doesn't fit in well with the surrounding area. Anyways, here is a quote from one site, which points out the Gothic roots of this San Diego temple.

 

The San Diego Temple is not by any means a duplicate of the Chartres Cathedral. It merely borrowed some aesthetic features characteristic of the Gothic style of architecture. The Chartres Cathedral can be seen as the bridge between the early to high Gothic periods back in medieval times, a classic. The Mormon Temple, however, is only a conglomeration of architectural elements designed to meet the needs of the Latter Day Saints. It cannot be put in the same class as classical Cathedral of Chartres. The two churches, while both drawing attention to themselves, one does it in a classical way, the other, making a spectacle of itself.

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

I was at Barnes & Nobles earlier, and saw a book simply titled "Churches". Inside it were a number of pictures of old and new churches. It had a number of modern takes on churches. I couldn't remember all of the names to look for on the internet, but here are two I remembered:

 

Thorncrown Chapel

 

 

I like Thorncrown because of its simplicity. Its all glass and wood. The Airforce chapel, is designed around the propellor of planes. The exterior has a number of fins, and the inside pewes take inspiration from propellors as well.

 

 

Gauracandra

[atma]

 

Thank you for the pictures, they are really interesting.

 

I do like the look of the Mormon temple but I never saw it in person like Babru,sp? did (I think I remember you from San Diego, do you have 2 daughters?). It looks like is trying to reach for the sky.

 

The Airforce Chapel one, seems like is going to crush in the people. Of course my perception from a picture but it doesn't looks very cozy. The Thorncrown Chapel is very simple but a little bit more inviting.

 

A place that I remember for all the temples and arquitecture is Kanchipuram in South India. Half of the temples are for Lord Visnu and the other half for Lord Siva with a few nice ones for Devi. Really nice temples, so bad that I didn't have enough time to see all of them.

 

In Vastu you want your temples and altars to be in a pyramide or triangular shape on top to get better energies from the cosmos. Please correct me if I don't remember right.

 

 

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by atma:

I do like the look of the Mormon temple but I never saw it in person like Babru,sp? did (I think I remember you from San Diego, do you have 2 daughters?). It looks like is trying to reach for the sky.

 

The Airforce Chapel one, seems like is going to crush in the people. Of course my perception from a picture but it doesn't looks very cozy. The Thorncrown Chapel is very simple but a little bit more inviting.

 

A place that I remember for all the temples and arquitecture is Kanchipuram in South India. Half of the temples are for Lord Visnu and the other half for Lord Siva with a few nice ones for Devi. Really nice temples, so bad that I didn't have enough time to see all of them.

 

In Vastu you want your temples and altars to be in a pyramide or triangular shape on top to get better energies from the cosmos. Please correct me if I don't remember right.

Part of the idea of the San Diego Mormon Temple, as I remember, is that it is reaching for the heavens. I know many people like it, and that's fine with me. It's a matter of taste. (That and, to be honest, a little annoyance that there's no Krishna temple at that location with a Sudarshana-chakra for all to see. Their temple is right beside the I-5 freeway.) I also like the Thorncrown Chapel, for its simplicity, its integration with its environment, and its sennse of space.

 

Yes, that was probably me in San Diego. I do have two daughters. Wish I knew who you were.

[Gauracandra]

Yeah, this is a very Mormon thing to do - they place most of their temples next to freeways. The idea is that if they are going to spend millions of dollars, it should be in a location that will get lots of viewing.

 

Obviously they see temple building as part of preaching. I wish we in Iskcon (or the broader Gaudiya Vaisnava society) would work more at BUILDING temples rather than buying them. I think early on we bought our temples because it was easier in terms of financing. We could take out a mortgage and slowly pay off a building.

 

But I think as we mature it is very important that we start to design our own temples. A temple can really say alot about the philosophy of the religion and can be used for great preaching. Right now it seems to me most churches are simply utilitarian in design. Very few that I see try to be something grand and uplifting. I think this is unfortunate because great civilizations should make great monuments to spirituality.

 

And they can be terrific forms of preaching. While its not a temple, the Palace of Gold, is quite elegant and is a nice design. At one point it was one of the biggest tourist attractions in West Virginia. I think the main problem with it was location. You really had to want to go and see it, and drive through winding hills to get to it. If they had built the Palace of Gold in a big city (even in West Virginia), I bet they would have had 10 or 20 times the number of visitors. If you have a nice little gift shop next to that, you could easily finance further construction and maintenance.

 

One thing I think we need to remember is that the cost of a building includes within it, its design. For instance, the Dallas temple has attached some exterior molding to make it more "Vedic". While the idea is nice, it is quite obvious that they don't fit the structure. But suppose that temple were built from scratch. Then we could easily add in such design elements, and they would fit in properly. The building would still cost the same, but instead of buying it we would build it.

 

The only thing that is holding us back is united action. Iskcon's structure is too broad, with no one individual in charge. If all we did was set regional goals, and unite all temples towards those regional goals, we could easily build a new beautiful temple every 2 or 3 years. If every temple congregation were asked to support a single project in the U.S. we could raise the money easily.

 

There is a nice temple being built in Utah. Caru Prabhu has been building it for some time and it seems like it is coming a long nicely. Also, Babhru, isn't there a temple being planned in San Diego? I think its a South Indian design. Do you think it will realistically get built? or is it just something they hope to do?

 

Gauracandra

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

There is a nice temple being built in Utah. Caru Prabhu has been building it for some time and it seems like it is coming a long nicely. Also, Babhru, isn't there a temple being planned in San Diego? I think its a South Indian design. Do you think it will realistically get built? or is it just something they hope to do?

What I've seen of the Utah temple is very impressive. In the San Diego area, the land is paid for. It's a beautiful setting, and the design for the temple(s) looks quite nice to me. Badrinarayan and the San Diego devotees are probably focused on raising money to begin grading, and are probably moving toward the building phase. I'm a little out of the loop now, since I've moved back to Hawaii, but the project is moving along, however slowly. It will no doubt take a few years to realize their ambitions.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Here are some designs by an architect named Mario Botta. Pretty interesting. The Evry Cathedral seems to have a hollow wall on the inside, with openings. So people can fill up the wall space (like a coliseum) as well as the floor space to view the mass.

 

Evry Cathedral, France

 

 

The Church of Saint John The Baptist

 

Edited July 2, 2015 by The Editor

[atma]

 

Last night watching Christmas mass at midnight, I was very impressed with St.Peter's Basilic in the Vatican. The interior is really grandious. Years ago while in Rome I visited the Vatican but we didn't have enough time to see everything.

I think the devotees copied the external design for Srila Prabhupada's pushpa Samadhi in Mayapur and they asked for help in the interior design to Matsya Avatar a succesful Italian businessman.

I flipped chanels to watch Mass from St Patrick Catedral in New York, it was easier to follow without the translation from Italian to English from the Vatican. The Cardinal was also more dynamic in preaching than the Pope. The Catedral it is very impressive. Maybe Gauracandra can provide us with pictures.

Another really nice one is the Cathedral in Milan and few in South America from the Spanish time.

I agree with the next statement from Gauracandra:

Quote:

But I think as we mature it is very important that we start to design our own temples. A temple can really say alot about the philosophy of the religion and can be used for great preaching. Right now it seems to me most churches are simply utilitarian in design. Very few that I see try to be something grand and uplifting. I think this is unfortunate because great civilizations should make great monuments to spirituality.

 

End of quote.

 

One think that struck me a few years ago was when the brother of a lady in Mayapur came to visit her in the Holy Dham and he mentioned to me that he didn't want to visit inside the Samadhi because reminded him to much the Basilic,he was expecting something Vedic or more Indian. He is a typical american from Boston that lived in Italy for 5 years and was at the time teaching art in the Emirates, now he is teaching in Egypt. He wanted the architecture of the region and a Vedic temple in Mayapur and he is not even a Hare Krsna devotee.

 

The church of St John Baptist it is different! Are they trying to get solar energy with that kind of roof?

 

Can we see some pictures from the Utah temple?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Those are some very interesting pictures posted by Gauracandra. I wonder if anyone has the interior photos of the Chowpatty ISKCON temple. I know there are some devotees from there that visit the forums.

 

The Chowpatty ISKCON temple interior is the most beautiful interior you will see anywhere. The entire hall's walls are made out of intricately carved teak wood. Hopefully someone can post a photo.

[Dharma]

Here is a rendition of the Foundation For World Awakening (an institution for enlightenment with a global association of 16 million) project in the Indus Mountains. It is to be a temple for enlightenment. The architect is from LA but the vaastu expert from India, near Bangalore. It is at the bottom of the page at http://www.skyboom.com/ddasa/index49.html Have some pictures of the construction if any are interested.

 

The land has an incredibly high energetic reading and there is a perpetual waterfall near there. Many of the mukti yajnas and moksha yajnas will be moved from Satyaloka Monastery to the new facility.

 

Satyaloka is remote and has few luxuries. Due to physical discomfort some people really struggle during the yajnas. Not all can tolerate cold showers, natural lighting, or sleeping on a matt on the the floor, outside under the stars or on the sand floor of the dhyana vihar.

 

Anyway this new center and temple is to be a very modern and comfortable facility.

 

[This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 12-25-2001).]

[Gauracandra]

Atma wrote:

 

The church of St John Baptist it is different! Are they trying to get solar energy with that kind of roof?

Can we see some pictures from the Utah temple?

Actually, I find the Church of St. John the Baptist picture hideous. I put it up because it was the same architect as the Evry cathedral which is quite a bit better. The guy seems to be hung up on cylinders. One thing I noticed about the Evry Cathedral on the inside was that most of the building is completely hollow. I guess this is structurally something alot of churches have - large, open, empty space above. I guess it signifies the open expanse of the universe, a sense of wonderment etc....But really that cathedral could be one-tenth the size if they just wanted to leave 10 feet above a person's head... but then it wouldn't look as impressive

As for the Utah temple, here is their website:

www.iskcon.net/utah/

Its a bit graphics intesive so might take some time to load up the pictures. But you can get a construction history, news etc...

Also, any word on the building of the Iskcon Manipur temple? There was a website at one point I visited that showed some pictures. It looked rather nice, with a circular design as I recall.

Gauracandra

[atma]

 

Yeah, I didn't like either St John The Baptist's church. I was trying to be polite saying that looks different, I guess hideous is the right word. Where is this church? France?

[Ananga]

The Baha'i temple in Wilmette, IL is pretty impressive, although the bad photograpbhy of this webcam site does not really do it justice:

 

[Gauracandra]

Ananga,

 

That is an interesting picture. I believe the Bahai's also have some temple in Bombay that is kind of interesting. If I recall its based on a lotus flower or something, though I think inside it is pretty sparse.

 

Gauracandra

[gHari]

The most wondrous church is right here in my heart. Wish I could attend more often.<font color="#dedfdf">

 

[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 12-29-2001).]

[Gauracandra]

Here is a website I found for the Iskcon San Diego temple project:

 

<link no longer exist>

 

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

Here is the official website of the Cathedral of Light (the first church I posted starting this thread):

 

http://www.oakdiocese.org/cathedral/cathedral.htm

 

Its a very interesting design. I have also heard of a major cathedral the Catholic Church is also building in Los Angeles. I looked up some pictures of it, and must say I was totally underwhelmed. It is supposed to cost like $150-200 million (as I recall) and many people were wondering if this money was really worth it. The pictures I saw were totally uninspiring, just giant square blocks. I must say I much prefer this Cathedral of Light.

 

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

Here are two articles I found on this Cathedral of Christ the Light:

 

Architect Calatrava awarded second major U.S. project

 

Designer of Art Museum addition lands Oakland cathedral commission

 

By KAREN HERZOG

of the Journal Sentinel staff

Last Updated: Nov. 19, 2000

 

Architect Santiago Calatrava has won his second major American commission - a modernistic glass and steel cathedral in Oakland, Calif., to replace a cathedral lost in the 1989 earthquake.

 

In a touch similar to the architect's design for the $75 million Milwaukee Art Museum addition - Calatrava's first American building project - the cathedral's design resembles a pair of hands.

 

"The hands can be brought together in prayer or they can be opened to the sky," explained Calatrava, who designed bird-like wings similarly intended to open and close over the art museum addition. The project on Milwaukee's lakefront is expected to be finished next summer.

 

A cathedral, like a museum, is among the most prestigious of architectural commissions. While Calatrava is well known in Europe for his bridges, train stations and airports, the architect, who was born in Spain and lives in Switzerland, is just getting a foothold in the United States.

 

"I know of architects who have come to the United States for first commissions and not gotten second commissions," said New Yorker architectural critic Paul Goldberger.

 

It speaks well of Calatrava that "people are lining up" to give him other American commissions before the Milwaukee project is even completed, Goldberger said, noting the most important commission for any architect is the first commission. Calatrava was hired by the Milwaukee Art Museum six years ago.

 

"If people didn't feel Milwaukee was looking good, they wouldn't want to take a chance on something like this," Goldberger said of the cathedral.

 

Whether the cathedral's "hands" actually open to the sky or remain permanently folded in prayer over Christ the Light Cathedral will hinge on the cost of such an engineering feat, said Brother Mel Anderson, director of special projects for the 600,000-member Oakland Diocese that hired Calatrava.

 

"He'd like to do the hands opening, but I'm not sure that will happen," Anderson said, noting the project will be privately funded, without any diocesan funds. A financial consulting firm hired to determine the feasibility of fund raising in the community did come back with an optimistic report, Anderson added.

 

"It's a matter of corralling him in," he said of Calatrava. "You always have to do that with an architect's vision."

 

Members of the committee that hired Calatrava visited the Milwaukee Art Museum in February and are well aware of that project's delays and spiraling cost as its design and scope have evolved well into construction, Anderson said.

 

Calatrava's design style tends to be fluid. There is no budget estimate or final site for the cathedral yet, but Anderson said he hoped it would be completed in two to three years.

 

Earthquake challenge

Among Calatrava's greatest challenges may be designing a delicate cathedral strong enough to withstand an earthquake. The St. Francis de Sales cathedral that the new structure is to replace was an unreinforced red brick building, built in the 1890s and demolished after it was heavily damaged in the 1989 quake.

 

"Santiago Calatrava, being an engineer as well as an architect, is well aware this is seismic country," Anderson said.

 

Christ the Light Cathedral is Calatrava's first cathedral commission. His design for the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York City was put on hold because some critics considered it too daring.

 

Calatrava's model for the Oakland cathedral was enthusiastically received by the committee that hired him.

 

The architect describes the cathedral design as "a vertical link between earth and sky, to go with the horizontal movement of people coming in and out."

 

"He has a vision - a spectacular sense of space," Anderson said. "And what he proposes looks like modern Gothic."

 

Calatrava has projects in various stages of design and construction around the world.

 

He has been courted for several additional projects in Milwaukee, including a footbridge over the Milwaukee River, a building on the campus of the Milwaukee School of Engineering and a high-rise condominium proposed by an art museum benefactor.

 

Last week, two of his highest-profile European projects opened to the public: the Science Museum and sculpture park at the City of Arts and Sciences complex in Valencia, and the Sondica Airport in Bilbao, both in Spain. A third Calatrava-designed structure is to be dedicated today - a bridge spanning the Loire River in Orleans, France.

 

Calatrava also is designing five bridges to span the Trinity River in Dallas, which are to be privately funded. And he is a candidate for projects in Atlanta and South Carolina.

[Gauracandra]

Oakland Cathedral Needs Site to Behold

Design bold, but Catholics still seeking location

 

Soaring arches of light will inspire worshipers entering Oakland's Roman Catholic cathedral of the future, but church leaders remain in the dark about where they will build the East Bay's new signature sanctuary.

 

The Diocese of Oakland has chosen renowned Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava to design the new Cathedral of Christ the Light. Calatrava's initial model for the project reveals a bold, curvaceous creation.

 

It will look absolutely nothing like the old no-nonsense church it is to replace. St. Francis de Sales Cathedral was damaged in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake and torn down four years later, leaving the Diocese of Oakland with no regional house of worship.

 

Early this year, the diocese was outbid on a choice parcel of land it hoped to buy for the cathedral at the northern tip of Lake Merritt.

 

Church leaders now say the most likely site for Calatrava's cathedral is on 21st Street and San Pablo Avenue, where the old St. Francis de Sales stood.

 

But planners have not given up on a waterfront setting and are looking at another piece of land at the other end of the lake, near the Kaiser Convention Center.

 

"We're still open to any suitable site," said Brother Mel Anderson, who is overseeing the cathedral project for Bishop John Cummins. "It's hard to get land. Oakland is booming."

 

Calatrava, who now lives in Zurich, is known for his soaring, skeletal structures built of glass and steel and filled with light. His first project in the United States, an expansion of the Milwaukee Art Museum, is scheduled to open next summer.

 

The model of his Oakland design, on display at Our Lady of Lourdes parish on Lake Merritt, bears a resemblance in some minds to the open-mouthed shark attack from the "Jaws" movie poster.

 

Calatrava says the cathedral is meant to suggest a less terrifying image -- a pair of hands.

 

"The hands can be brought together in prayer, or they can be opened to the sky," he said. "The building is not a closed thing. It's a vertical link between heaven and earth."

 

Rising more than 100 feet at its peak, the elliptical building would be constructed of steel beams interspersed with panes of opaque or stained glass. It would seat 1,800 worshipers and cover 34,000 square feet.

 

Anderson said the design and the name "Christ the Light Cathedral" are inspired by the sweeping liberal church reforms of the Second Vatican Council, specifically the Vatican II document, Lumen Gentium, or "Light of Nations."

 

Vatican II redefined the Roman Catholic Church as "the people of God" and increased the role of the laity.

 

"There's a fan shape around the altar so the congregation can see each other and actively participate in the liturgy," Anderson said.

 

Allan Temko, the author of "Notre Dame of Paris," a book recounting the construction history of that French Gothic masterpiece, said the bold modern arches of Calatrava's design evoke distant memories of interior Gothic space.

 

"His architecture is poetry," said Temko, the retired, Pulitzer Prize- winning architecture critic for The Chronicle. "It's complex and powerful, but not forced."

 

 

Temko, who serves as a consultant for the Oakland project, hopes the diocese can still secure a lakeside location. But he notes that the seedy neighborhood around the old cathedral is rapidly changing as new residential housing is built in downtown Oakland.

 

There are plans to relocate the old Greyhound bus station, and the site's proximity to Interstate 980 in downtown Oakland could make the cathedral an instant East Bay landmark.

 

"You'd see this astounding thing as you drive by on the freeway," Temko said.

 

Calatrava's most celebrated architectural and engineering works are in Europe -- Alamillo Bridge in Seville, Spain; the City of Arts of Sciences museum in Valencia, Spain; the Sondica Airport in Bilbao, Spain; and a new bridge over the Loire River in Orleans, France.

 

Anderson said the diocese, which includes nearly 500,000 Catholics across Alameda and Contra Costa counties, does not have a firm cost estimate for the project, which includes a rectory, conference center and diocesan offices.

 

In February, church officials said the entire project might cost $75 million.

 

Cummins says the money can be raised to build the cathedral without taking money away from existing church programs.

 

Planners estimate that construction could begin in about 18 months and take 12 to 18 months to complete.

[Gauracandra]

I got those articles from this website:

http://pub20.ezboard.com/fglobalarchitectureforumsmodernbuildings.showMessage?topicID=101.topic

Check it out if you want to see some really beautiful pictures of a model of this cathedral. The more I look at it the more I like it. But the cost of $75 million is extraordinary. But since there are 1 Billion catholics in the world, I guess it really only comes to like 7.5 cents per Catholic, and over a period of several hundred years the structure will be around, it might just be darn cheap.

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

 

His design for the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York City was put on hold because some critics considered it too daring.

This is an understatement ("too daring"). I'll see if I can post a picture of his design for this other cathedral. It scared the hell out of me - but maybe thats what churches are for. It was way weird. The building looked very sinewey, like it was alive with muscles. It was just strange beyond words.

Gauracandra