Deepak Chopra & the "new" religion.

[Gauracandra]

I didn't want to deviate from Jijaji's posting, so I thought I'd start a new one. Anyone have an opinion of Deepak Chopra? I won't claim to know a whole lot about him, but I did look through one of his books a few years back. Basically my view was that it was just the typical self-help book (like Tony Robbins and all the rest), but with an eastern philosophy angle. It was just too touchy feely for me, where everything was just thrown in. I'm not a big believer in the self-help movement, but I do think it is gradually becoming the "new" religion. Even Christian preachers I see on TV now sound just like self-help promoters. The Bible and Jesus are just there to help you achieve a better marriage, sounder finances, and such. Thats what I'm seeing in the culture right now. But I have a feeling the self-help movement is going out of fashion. It was in during the touchy-feely '90s, but I'm thinking since 9-11 people are looking for something more solid. We'll see.

 

Gauracandra

[gHari]

We don't want religion because it gets in our way of enjoyment. We are too attached. The only way to hook our interest is through these other touchy-feely topics with real benefits for ME. Perhaps then some will start waking up, and gradually Jesus or Supersoul can work their magic.

 

As we all know, remembering God is anticeptic. But we like the disease, just as pigs really enjoy their mud and stool sty. So most people will become angry at the mention of God, for anger is the result when attachments are not satisfied.

 

This explanation also explains the need for a variety of religious disciplines as noted by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura:

http://geocities.com/caitanyamahaprabhu/garland.htm/#nonsectarian

[suryaz]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I didn't want to deviate from Jijaji's posting, so I thought I'd start a new one. Anyone have an opinion of Deepak Chopra? I won't claim to know a whole lot about him, but I did look through one of his books a few years back. Basically my view was that it was just the typical self-help book (like Tony Robbins and all the rest), but with an eastern philosophy angle. It was just too touchy feely for me, where everything was just thrown in. I'm not a big believer in the self-help movement, but I do think it is gradually becoming the "new" religion. Even Christian preachers I see on TV now sound just like self-help promoters. The Bible and Jesus are just there to help you achieve a better marriage, sounder finances, and such. Thats what I'm seeing in the culture right now. But I have a feeling the self-help movement is going out of fashion. It was in during the touchy-feely '90s, but I'm thinking since 9-11 people are looking for something more solid. We'll see.

 

Gauracandra

What does "touchy-feely '90s" mean?

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 12-17-2001).]

[jijaji]

Deepak is a renegade disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He left thr TM movement and started his own 'Primordial Sound Meditation' based on Vedic mathemathics and sounds that were in nature at the time of your birth and used as mantra, much the same way TM mantras are used. He also was one of the first western trained doctors to implement ayurveda into his practice and promote meditation as beneficial for a healthy lifestyle.

 

As far as 'New Religion' it seems the traditional role of Eternal Sad-Guru is being replaced here with 'Meditation Teacher'

no worship just a respectful recognition.

 

it has it's place I believe...

 

jijaji

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 12-17-2001).]

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Originally posted by jijaji:

Deepak is a renegade disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He left thr TM movement and started his own 'Primordial Sound Meditation' based on Vedic mathemathics and sounds that were in nature at the time of your birth and used as mantra, much the same way TM mantras are used. He also was one of the first western trained doctors to implement ayurveda into his practice and promote meditation as beneficial for a healthy lifestyle.

 

As far as 'New Religion' it seems the traditional role of Eternal Sad-Guru is being replaced here with 'Meditation Teacher'

no worship just a respectful recognition.

 

it has it's place I believe...

 

jijaji

 

 

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear jijaji:

 

Clear and to the point.

 

You are correct--they have their Place these Teachers yet I do not Encourage People to become involved in any Chopra, Programs--as they are a Commercial Mayavadisim as is the Movement of his Original mentor--"maharishi whatever Yogi".

 

One thing is that these programs can be a Spring Board for Sincere Souls.

 

His "Mantra" Program is totally Mental Concocton--"Primordial Sound"--Gheesh!

 

Yet as you very aptly pointed out he has his place...

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

 

ps: The Mahamantra--that is where its at!

[jijaji]

Upasana in the Vedic Period

 

It is possible that even during the early Vedic period there were independent thinkers and groups of people who practiced meditation as their chief spiritual discipline. That was perhaps how the Samkhya and Yoga systems developed independently of the Vedas.

 

In Vedic literature upasana first appears as a part of rituals in the Brahmanas (the part of the Veda which deals with rituals). The emphasis then was on sacrificial rites (yajna). In the Brahmanas we find a few meditations prescribed along with these rites. The sacrifice was regarded as most important and sufficient in itself to produce the desired results. The meditation that was practiced along with it was only an auxiliary part of it and had no independent existence. The purpose of such meditations was to gain some additional merit and their omission in no way affected the sacrifices. This kind of upasana was called angavabaddha meaning "connected to parts (of the sacrifice)."

 

Gradually, upasana became separated from the rituals. In the Aranyakas we find meditations replacing actual sacrifices. But the meditations still resembled the sacrifices. They were mostly symbolic representations of external rituals. The whole external rite was, as it were, transferred to the mind. These upasanas may therefore be called "substitution-meditations." A well-known example is found in the very beginning of the Brihadaranyaka Upanisad which is an Aranyaka as well as an Upanisad. Here the sacrificial horse is to be meditated upon as identified with the Cosmic Being (Virat or Prajapati), the horse’s head standing for the dawn, its eye for the sun, its prana for the air and so on.

 

The next stage in the evolution of upasana is found in the Upanisads. Here meditations are in no way connected to rituals nor even symbolically resemble them. They directly deal with Brahman, the ultimate Reality. But Brahman is a transcendent principle which cannot be known through the ordinary senses and mind. So the great sages of the Upanisads used various familiar objects of the phenomenal universe like the sun, akasa (space), vayu (air), water, prana (the vital energy), manas (mind), words, etc. to represent Brahman. However, what the sages attempted was not mere concentration of mind on one of these symbols. In that case it would have become only a form of the yogic exercise known as dharana. What they actually did was to connect each symbol to a certain framework of meaning—a spiritual formula. Upasana in the Upanisads are meditations on these spiritual formulas. These formulas are devices to guide the mind from the symbol to Reality. When a mind which is sufficiently purified meditates on such a formula, its true meaning—the ultimate Reality—will be revealed to it. These meditation formulas were called vidyas.

 

So then, angavabaddhas (in the Brahmanas), substitution-meditations (in the Aranyakas) and vidyas (in the Upanisads): these were the three stages in the evolution of upasana during the Vedic period. Sri Sankara says that lower upasanas do not deserve to be called vidyas.

 

Therefore, vidyas represent the highest forms of upasana. The entire knowledge of the Upanisads came out of the meditations of the great rishis on these vidyas. It was through these meditations that they discovered the great truths that underlie the phenomenal universe. A scientist tries to understand the ultimate truth through a series of steps, meticulously analyzing each step. But in ancient India the sages went straight to the Reality with the help of certain mental paradigms. Says Deussen: "That India more than any other country is the land of symbols is owing to the nature of Indian thought, which applied itself to the most abstruse problems before it was even remotely in a position to treat them intelligently."

 

Vidyas are paradigms of Brahman. In ancient India each teacher developed his or her own concept model of Brahman and taught it as a meditation technique to his or her disciples. That was how so many vidyas came into existence. Some of the Upanisads, especially the Brihadaranyaka, Chandogya and Taittiriya, are a rich storehouse of these vidyas. The importance attached to the vidyas was so great that the Brahma-Sutra has a whole section dealing exclusively with them. The vidyas really hold the key to the Upanisads, and no one can properly understand the Upanisads without understanding the vidyas.

 

The vidyas are said to be thirty-two in number, but many more must have been known to the ancient sages. Among these gayatri-vidya, antaraditya-vidya, madhu-vidya, sandilya-vidya and dahara-vidya are well known. It is beyond the scope of the present article to deal with these vidyas in detail. They are to be learnt directly from competent teachers who have attained illumination through them. But long before the beginning of the Christian era the lineage of Vedic rishis had ended. And in the absence of a living tradition, the vidyas ceased to be practiced and their true inner meaning was soon forgotten.

 

One major cause for the neglect of the vidyas was the rise of Buddhism and its influence on Hindu thought. A second reason was the crystallization of Hindu philosophy into six schools or darsanas and the triumph of the Advaita system. Nondual experience was originally sought through a gradual expansion of consciousness attained by the practice of vidyas. But gradually the goal became more important than the means. Vedanta neglected its mystical roots, became more speculative and polemical, and thus moved farther away from life and experience. A third reason for the neglect of the vidyas was the popularity of Yoga and, later on, of the Tantras.

 

Under the influence of Yoga and Tantra new techniques of meditation were developed during the Middle Ages which survive to this day. Meditation techniques in modern times are strongly influenced by Yoga and Tantra. We are now witnessing a great revival of mysticism, and ancient methods are being adjusted to suit the needs of modern aspirants.

 

Some enterprising people are experimenting with new techniques of meditation.

 

from Vedanta.org

 

[Gauracandra]

What does "touchy-feely '90s" mean?

Perhaps this isn't the best phrase. I'll explain what I mean, and perhaps we can come up with a better description. Basically every decade seems to have a certain cultural atmosphere. Of course 10 years is a bit arbitrary, but over that time frame we can see distinct patterns emerge. The 70s are distinct from the 80s, the 80s from the 90s etc....

 

My view is that the 90s were extremely shallow and without substance. Musically for instance, we started the decade off in the early 90s with the slacker gen-x grunge music of Nirvana (and other such bands). These were kids who were rebelling against the oppression of living comfortably in the suburbs. They wanted to pretend they had a cause but really were just a bunch of whinners. When Kurt Cobain blew his brains out, the media tried to turn him into the next John Lennon, but a generation that cared for nothing really didn't give a damn that their "hero" was dead. They could buy a new one at the local music store. At the end of the 90s we closed out the decade with a resurgence of bubble gum pop with Britany Spears and N-sync.

 

The 90s were marked by how "ironic" everything was. If something was quirky or had pop culture references it was considered unique and different.

 

Politically nothing much happened either. The cold war was over. So what was the next big issue to grab the nation? Bill Clinton's personal life. There was nothing else out there. No great issues, no sweeping reforms. A great president is marked by times of great turmoil.

 

While the self-help movement has been around for quite some time (I believe Napoleon Hill started it all with "Think and Grow Rich"), I think it really took off in the 90s. Go to the book store and see how many "Chicken Soup for the Soul" books you see. There is Chicken Soup for the Elderly Soul, Chicken Soup for the Cat lovers Soul, Chicken Soup for the Divorced Soul, Chicken Soup for the Christian Soul... Seriously its ridiculous, and it is just cranked out self-help. Its an industry. I'm not kidding but I expect to see "Chicken Soup for the Vegetarians Soul".

 

I see this in the corporate world alot. The truth is that businesses are one of the biggest supporters of the self-help movement, and I have really seen this take off in the 90s. Its just cheaper to give a person a $20 book, or a $200 seminar, rather than a $3000 pay raise. But I have noticed in the last year that my company atleast has dropped alot of these self-help books. They were just too cheesy, and many thought they were being talked down to.

 

So this is my view of the 90s. "Touchy Feely" might not be the best phrase. But I think it was very substanceless, and insecure. Its funny but the President of the U.S. usually sets the tone for the decade. Its odd almost. I'm thinking this next decade might be a reaction to all the fluff of the 90s, and perhaps we'll turn to traditions and a certain somberness and substanceness (is that a word?). We'll see in 10 years.

 

Gauracandra

 

[This message has been edited by Gauracandra (edited 12-18-2001).]

[Gauracandra]

Yeah, what Suryaz said

 

It seems kind of odd, but when we look at large chunks of time, it is obvious how the culture changes. Even though the time increments may be a bit arbitrary, still we can see these changes. What I've noticed myself in the last few years is just how far our culture is pushing the envelope. Its amazing if you see whats permissible on television for instance today compared to just 10 years ago. Programs that were controversial a few years back, are just standard fare now. It will be interesting to see where this is all headed.

 

Gauracandra

[suryaz]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

90s. "Touchy Feely '90"

Thank you Gauracandra,

 

Could it be:

 

To treat the psychological efferism (that which provides motivation and is enhanced with a kind of felicity) created around something, where bluff is the foundation, as a reality that has a realistic foundation?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I grew up right after the generation you bashed. Im 18 years old and I know a lot about the 90's and what really happened i wasnt there but I know everything about it I have information to back my views and my opinions from every type of resource to thrash what you think. Kurdt Cobain was a god to poeple and still is. People believed in Nirvana and their Music, if ot why did 120 listeners of Cobain kill themselves.Have you read a book called " Who killed Kurt Cobain? " I have it changed the way I thought about his death. What about his journals A look into the guys head? I think you are ignorant and dont know . about what happened in the nineties. What about operation Ivy the movement they created to stop the spreading of racism and hate among the punk crowds and attempting to end a war between punks thats been lasting for 20 years. The 90's were about change revolution, harmony and peace. I dont think we have the same 90's. Tweeter-

[Guest guest]

funny you should mention nirvana,back when they were at their height i was living on the north shore of oahu

hawaii,across the street from sunset beach the surfing

capital of the world, my roomate was a surfer and lifeguard

and he also grew up with the bass player from nirvana,they were cousins but grew up together,he was there when nirvana

formed in a dumpy old town in washington state,they would practice in his moms apartment,Kurt was homeless for a while

and lived under a bridge and was kinda anti social,well when i lived there

Kurt came to hawaii and got married,i got to meet the band,

and even jammed a little with them,anyways the 90's

were different things to different people, eclectic

is a word that comes to mind,everything was going

on but the media created many myths that weren't really

true,so Gauracandra was giving the media view of what the 90's were,of course as usual mass media covers maybe

1% of what is going on in the world and hypes it to

seem like it is all in all,so your point is well taken.