Vaisnava Economic Development

[Gauracandra]

In another posting it was mentioned that the website planetveggie.com does not want to be associated with Krsna Consciousness. I thought I'd create a new posting, since this one would stray from the original topic. Personally I can understand it, and would support such a decision. Here is my explanation. From what I've heard Siddhaswarupananda focuses more effort on building up a business base for his community. The idea being that if you have a good solid financial platform, this then supports the preaching efforts. It is social development, or varnashram development.

 

Now as devotees we have this habit of needing to constantly tell people we are devotees. And this can work against us. The purpose of a business is to make money. The purpose of a preacher is to preach. A preacher without some financial backing will find it a rough go. But a business that seeks to preach will also find that it will drive its customers away. In such a case it will not have the financial resources to support the preaching community.

 

For instance, the Mormons own the Marriot Hotel chain. But they don't go around calling it "The Mormon Marriot" so that every Catholic, Baptist, or Lutheran passing by decides not to stay there. Instead they run a business for profit. And the owner then donates literally millions of dollars to the LDS Church, gives training at BYU in business etc.... (Though I have heard they do put a "Book of Mormon" in each drawer next to the Bible.)

 

Now devotees always want to get Krsna's name out front and center. But this I think is short term thinking. It would be better for preachers to preach, and businessmen to make money and support the rest of the community. Thats called social development. When you start to mix the two, neither one is very successful.

 

One problem I have seen is that usually the temple (perhaps out of necessity) takes over running the business. If Spiritual Sky incense wasn't run by Iskcon, but was a for profit enterprise, it could have been huge. Or remember the "Yogi Bars"? Those were quite successful in the 70s early 80s. I don't know what happened to them (I think I heard it was sold off to Quaker Oats, who now sells granola bars, rather than the niche specific "yogi" bars). I remember being able to go to all sorts of "regular" stores and finding Yogi bars in them.

 

Here is a radical idea. I am unaware of a vegetarian restaurant chain. There might be a few here and there. Now I kind of like the name "Govinda's" but is that limiting our potential? Given our distribution network (the Iskcon community) we can establish a worldwide chain of restaurants. And we have. Couldn't we turn this into a for profit franchise? Maybe don't call it Govinda's because that is religion specific. Call it something like "The Higher Taste". In our communities, our restaurants will offer all the food to the deities etc... But because the name is more general, we can sell franchises to vegetarians who aren't devotees. We would set certain standards (as all restaurant chains do). There are vegetarian restaurants in every city. Why aren't they ours? Because we don't have a temple in every city. And our restaurants are principally supported by our congregation.

 

But if this were a franchise, someone who has no religious persuasion could open a vegetarian restaurant in Vermont, or Oklahoma etc... We don't have communities there. The money from these franchises would then flow into our community. It would make us financially stronger.

 

I don't know how many restaurants we have right now. Lets say it is 20 in the U.S. (thats probably high). Can't we use that as a base for starting a franchise? Then let 80 other people (non-devotees, or devotees) go out and start 80 other restaurants. Now we will have much greater money flowing into our community.

 

Anyways, I'm rambling along abit. My basic idea is that we should not think short term, but should work to build a solid business base. But if we limit ourselves to a very narrow "Hare Krsna Niche" it simply makes it even harder to succeed as a business.

 

Gauracandra

[darwin]

The problem is that Iskcon is mostly run by vaishas and their sudras. Vaishas are good at memorizing books and organizing, and this can be vital to society. But in Iskcon they have displaced the brahmins and are not out making money like they should be, but are struggling to continue to exploit Iskcon society.

 

I very much agree with you that we need to start businesses, but under the current situation it may be counter productive. I think that the proper policy toward Iskcon management would be similar to the US policy toward Iraq; sanctions, inspections and constant pressure. But also with dialog, constructive engagement and rewards for good behavior and reforms.

 

[This message has been edited by darwin (edited 01-20-2002).]

[Gauracandra]

I don't think Iskcon should start the restaurants. But we do have a network in place. The problem I see is that this network isn't used in any manner. We need some sort of organization, perhaps something like a Vaisnava Business Association, that would help mobilize capital.

 

You are right that restaurants are extremely hard to maintain. That is actually one of the reason's that I thought making it a franchise separate from Iskcon would be good. The idea originally came out as a manner to help reduce the activities of Iskcon (the organization) from anything other than temple related activities.

 

My original idea was to sell stock in a vegetarian restaurant chain to devotees. Individuals could buy franchises, and those that were located next to temples would pay a premium fee (because they would have an existing market in place).

 

I think that temples should divest themselves of the responsibility of running restaurants, stores, and large blocks of property. Initially this was necessary because the religious institution was the place where capital accumulated the most. But no church runs restaurants. It is simply a distraction and an additional burden.

 

A second proposal was to start to sell off Iskcon property like apartment complexes. But sell them off to devotees. For instance, it would be possible to convert apartment complexes into condominium units (the main structural adjustment would be to place a firewall in between each unit). Then sell these condos to devotees, rather than renting them out. The ones that aren't sold off can continue to be rented out until they are sold. In this way we wouldn't need Iskcon to constantly be managing the property. There would be a condo association made up of devotees that would take up that task.

 

There is quite a lot of property that could be sold off to stable devotees who work on the outside. This would release this capital to be used for other means. Like for instance, carving out new space in new locations. Sell houses off in existing communities to devotees. Then go to a new location with the freed up cash and use it to carve out new locations. Or use the money purely to set up a deity trust fund, and simply have worship.

 

I think if Iskcon were to unburden itself of many of these responsibilities, and just focus in on temple worship and preaching, it would be a good move.

 

Gauracandra

 

[This message has been edited by Gauracandra (edited 01-20-2002).]

[valaya]

I think that the proper policy toward Iskcon management would be similar to the US policy toward Iraq; sanctions, inspections and constant pressure. But also with dialog, constructive engagement and rewards for good behavior and reforms.

 

[This message has been edited by darwin (edited 01-20-2002).]

 

Rewards for good behavior?! How about little maha treats for sanyassis? Maybe call them `Yassis` and they could be tossed towards the speaker during lectures, when someone in the congregation approved of what was being said..." Good boy, Yassi, good boy!"

[darwin]

In the US, religious organizations are tax free. Devotees can work at a job on the outside, give up to half of their money to the Temple tax free while living at the Temple for free. There is no reason to sell off Temple properties unless the mortgage just can't be kept up with and the Temple is losing equity. We have learned from experience, cash is too big of a temptation for our vaisha and sudra Temple management.

 

I agree with stonehearted that restaurants are probably too difficult to make profitable. I think something like packaged food products would be better.

 

It is incredible how our movement wastes talent. Our devotees are discouraged from thinking or anything else that could free them from the control of the Temple management. Again, this is due to fact that vaishas and sudras have displaced our brahmins.

 

[stonehearted]

Darwin wrote:

I think that the proper policy toward Iskcon management would be similar to the US policy toward Iraq; sanctions, inspections and constant pressure. But also with dialog, constructive engagement and rewards for good behavior and reforms.

 

Stone: I must have missed this passage when I first read Darwin's text, but, like Valaya, I find it a strange suggestion. I think the proper policy is for householders to start the businesses and run them completely legally and above-board. (I have never seen any such thing happen when there was any ISKCON involvement, and I've been around since early 1970.) Then, then folks who run the business donate a portion of their profits as they see fit--to whatever Krishna conscious projects they have confidence in. The managers of the temples, etc. need to earn the householders' trust by managing their resources carefully, honestly, and transparently. They are also reponsible for maintaining good realtionships with those who earn, not to browbeat them with "Prabhupada said," or "I'm the authority here," or any of that foolishness. I spent about three years as a member of an ISKCON center's board of directors, and what I saw (and I'd guess it's safe to generalize to the rest of the movement, at least in the US) was that many devotees were reluctant to donate as much as the temple wanted because they didn't trust the temple's management of the money they had and because there was no real accountability.

[stonehearted]

It sounds as though the suggestion is that ISKCON start a chain of restaurants. The implication in the opening post is that the LDS church owns Marriott, but I believe that it is owned by Mormon individuals. So I believe the restaurants should be opened and maintained by individuals who are devotees, and who have such a vision. If they're out there, let 'em go for it! I know a devotee who owns a very successful chain of stores, some under his direct ownership and some franchised. That grew out of his vision and hard work. It's not "Krishna's Closet Place," and it's NOT under the direction of any GBC or temple managers. It's his business, and he uses his profits as he sees fit.

 

That said, I want to point out that restaurants require incredibly hard work and awfully hard to make profitable. I helped open the very first Govinda's Restaurant, in Honolulu in 1974. We were worn out at the end of every day. I've also seen many unsuccessful attempts to maintain a restaurant in San Diego, and no one has yet figured out how to make it work. So if someone wants to take a shot at a chain, first they need to make one restaurant work, then build from there. That would take time, patience, hard work, and a willingness to take risks. That's business.

 

[This message has been edited by stonehearted (edited 01-20-2002).]

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Dear Friends:

 

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

 

This is a good idea--we need to start to devlope as a community these things--I know that I despise working for demons--all karmis are not demons--but too many are--all too often it is not until one has the job that it becomes clear that that is the case.

 

We are so dependant on the Kali Yuga world--exactly the opposite of what Srila Prabhupada wants.

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

[This message has been edited by Bhakta Don Muntean (edited 01-21-2002).]

[Gauracandra]

I think one business that makes sense for devotees would be hotels. If we could pool resources and start to build a network this could be both a good business, that provides incomes for devotees, and also could provide good accomodations for life members etc... A local temple could perhaps "purchase" a single room in the hotel for life members (with life membership funds). This way we could build up first class accomodations for life members.

 

Gauracandra

[valaya]

--all karmis are not demons--

...and all so-called devotees are not devotees, though we are taught to accept them as such under threat of committing offenses. Might I humbly suggest that so-called karmis may become the best of devotees through the sincere association of even one true devotee, and that our fear of offensiveness should be extended equally to our association with `them`? Let us all try to become that one devotee in all our dealings!

 

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Radhe Radhe always Radhe!

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