The Pope's Inter-faith Religious Gathering

[Gauracandra]

I read that recently the Pope met with the heads of various Christian organizations (Catholic, Protestant, Mormon), with Buddhists, Muslims, and other religious groups in order that all faiths learn from one another.

 

I must say I am very impressed with Pope John Paul II. Just last year (or was it 2 years ago?) he personally went to Israel to honor holocaust victims. I think he has done an admirable job in steering the Catholic church, and guiding the world to a better place.

 

Gauracandra

[Yashoda_dd]

I have been watching it for few minutes. Unfortunately, I have not seen any vaisnavas there.

 

At one point, all different religion groups started their peace praying (ceremonies).

 

I wish vaisnavas were there with Hare Krishna maha-mantra.

 

[Gauracandra]

Yes, I also saw a small clip of this on television. I was looking, but didn't see any one from the Hindu perspective that I could tell. In fact, in news reports I saw it mentioned Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and various tribal religions. It just seemed odd that there was no mention of Hindus. They were probably there, but we just didn't see them.

 

Gauracandra

[karthik_v]

Gauracandra Prabhuji,

 

I disagree with your observation on this Pope. In fact, he is very fundamentalist and highly conservative. He is one of the persons who pursued the beatification of Pius XII. When he came to India, he refused to acknowledge that Hinduism is a religion and also refused to apologize for the inquisition of Goa. Vatican PR release said that every mistake of the past need not be apologised for. He also wrote the most arrogant note from any foreign dignitory ever at Gandhi samadhi: Any culture (here referring to India), that tries to be exclusive will perish.

 

He also lamented in Talkatora stadium that despite the fact that Jesus was born an Asian, Christianity didn't flourish in Asia. He called for the evangelisation of India. Arun Shourie came up with a nice repartee. He asked why despite Jesus having been an Asian, no Asian has ever been a Pope!.

 

So, if he apologized (half-heartedly) in Israel, it is only because the Jewish lobby is very powerful. And Bank of Vatican cannot antagonize them, if it were to continue its money laundering activities. Well, Hindus don't have that clout you see, so he gave them a rough deal. Sadly, this world gets carried away by the propaganda on CNN and Time magazine. Aren't there millions that believe Mother(!) Teresa was holy and that she served the poor of Calcutta?

[Gauracandra]

Perhaps. It is true that Jews and Muslims hold more sway in the western world than do Hindus, and so the Pope would be more willing to talk with them. It would be interesting if there were a report that could definitely confirm whether Hindus were included or excluded from this meeting. We know that at the World Trad Center prayer that Hindus were not represented.

 

Gauracandra

 

 

[Yashoda_dd]

No reason for doubts.

 

Jains were there. I did not see them, because Christians took almost all the video recordings. Pope was sitting in the middle, on high vyasasan, lik a guru to all of them. And all other representatives were sitting around him left and right in few rolls, so jains were sitting somewhere behind, but I heard speaker mentioning them.

 

The lady Hindu was speaking, I do not know who was she, about love and peace and understanding. She was dressed in sari with no other marks.

 

Again, vaisnavas could chant Hare Krishna maha-mantra, then it would be world-religion gathering. My opinion is, their gathering was not fully succesfull without vaisnavas.

 

I wait for another chance.

[Avinash]

Sadly, this world gets carried away by the propaganda on CNN and Time magazine. Aren't there millions that believe Mother(!) Teresa was holy and that she served the poor of Calcutta?

 

Why do you think that she was not holy and that she did not serve the poor?

 

[Pita das]

Where I was a young boy the nuns asked us to send one dollar to the sisters in calcutta.

I went home and my Mother gave me a dollar i taped it to a pieice of paper and sent it to the sisters in calcutta.

When I was in Hong Kong two devottees Satyanaranya and Lomasarisi went to see Mother Teresa .

They said she was in a room the size of a closet.

and they returned confirming her to be a greatly saintly person.

They had asked her if she would be interested to assit with a hosiptal in Mayapur on our temple land and she told them Im compeltely un a lined I do not even aline my self with the saint vicent depaul

a cathloic charity.

We depend totally on the Lord mercy

While in Taiwan we knew this playboy bachlor athiest he was tho dj on the local American radio in Taibei.

His name was Nick really a debachy type if ever there was one

When Mother Teresa came to Taibei his job was to interview her.

As he only lived a few houses away from me I went over to see him and ask him about what he throught of her.

Oh Mother Teresa is a genuine that what we call these people in the business .

She is what people say of her

[Pita das]

Bhagavan told a story of when he was in London all these diffrent religious leaders were asked to meet with the Pope and he was asked to represent the Hindu community so he went.

In this room all these diffrent religious

leaders were present to meet the Pope

The Pope then came in and said.

ITS ALL A QUESTION OF BLESSINGS and he held up his hand and lefted

They all looked at each other and the big meeting was over

[shvu]

 

Sadly, this world gets carried away by the propaganda on CNN and Time magazine. Aren't there millions that believe Mother(!) Teresa was holy and that she served the poor of Calcutta?

Wasn't she serving the poor after all? I would like to know more about this.

 

Thanx

 

[Yashoda_dd]

In 1995 and in 1996, I was serving in Calcutta temple. Once, I went with another lady devotee, to meet Mother Theresa.

 

We stayed for a praying ceremony, I saw her chanting her beads, I talked a little bit with her, I saw her giving bananas and cheese sandwiches to poor people.

 

I saw nothing wrong. When I looked into her eyes, I saw nothing but a desire to help others.

 

I am sorry to dissapoint some who says she did not help.

 

She was a very, very short old nun. She does not say she is a saintly person, but if one goes to Calcutta slams and live with those people a little bit, then one can see what she did and why.

 

I was involved with selling very expencive prasadam burgers for Indian standard, very costly pizzas and cakes.

 

When we wanted to garland her with maha garland from Sri Sri Radha Govinda, she said, "I will give it to Mother Mary" in the cortyard (there was a live size statue of Mother Mary).

 

 

[Avinash]

It is true that millions believe that she was helping poor. And I am one of them.

[shvu]

 

It is true that millions believe that she was helping poor. And I am one of them.

Me too, which is why I am curious to hear

out Karthik.

 

Cheers

 

[karthik_v]

Sorry for keeping this response short. I am very busy this entire week and worked week-end too. Between 1979 and 1992 Teresa raised US$190 million for MOC, Calcutta alone. Except, Rs.6 lacs, the rest is all kept in accounts in Panama and the US, all controlled by BOV. None spent for the cause. Ramakrishna mission, which thrives on paltry donations, has many times more bigger hospital, not only in Calcutta but also in many other cities. Her entire hospital, is a sham. It is having just 75 beds. Even , L&C, who praised her so much in COJ, were a little critical by 1992. CAG of India demanded audit of her accounts thrice, to be shot down by the Congress govt..

 

Start with this link:

http://website.lineone.net/~bajuu/

 

I will post more on this when I find a little time. I used to be a big admirer of her, till 1993 and even donated money on a regular basis. But, my entire perception changed when I received inputs from a friend who worked for SBI that handled MOC accounts. He showed me many telexed copies of WT orders. That was when I first started suspecting her. When I read CAG reports, it was bolstered. Stern ran a few reports. UK too conducted one audit, but MOC was smart to move the money out by then. Now I am sure that MOC is no more than a front of BOV for laundering.

[shvu]

 

Thanks for the Info. I had never heard about the other side before. btw, assuming it is all true, is it possible the money was going into BOV without her knowledge?

 

Cheers

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

If it is true, I doubt it could be something she wasn't aware of. If you receive millions of dollars in donations, but you only feed 300 or 400 people a day in Calcutta, it should be obvious money is going somewhere else.

 

[stonehearted]

Thanks for the information. There has been much scandal published about Mother Teresa over the years, but there are strong supsicions that feminists angry over her very traditionally Roman Catholic position on abortion and women in the priesthood drive the investigations.

 

Of course, no one is perfect, but she seems an unlikely person to have been found living high on the hog.

 

I met her twice. Once, in 1980, I was stuck alone in the New Delhi airport, waiting for probelms with my connecting ticket to Calcutta to be straightened out. I saw her walking down a hallway with a small entourage of men. I approached her, offered pranams and a few simple words of appreciation. (I didn't have any books on me except the Nectar of Instruction I was reading, and didn't offer that to her because it was rather worn.) She was very kind and spent a couple of minutes chatting--didn't seem in a hurry to get away from the American man with the dhoti and sikha. The second time was in 1982 in the Calcutta airport. On that occasion, Jagaddhatri and Kaumadaki had a copy of Bhagavad-gita As It Is, which she accepted with apparent gratitude. The sense I got from those few minutes of association was that she was very focused and compassionate, maybe even saintly. I find reports of money being stashed disappointing. (Also, I have no clue what all those acronyms mean--BOV, MOC, CAG, etc., so they mean nothing to me.) We need to point out, though, that her order has missions all over the world now, including one in Tijuana, Mexico, which has been running for several years.

 

[This message has been edited by stonehearted (edited 01-29-2002).]

[Yashoda_dd]

From a web page: "Mother Teresa has dedicated her life to helping the poor, the sick, and the dying around the world, particularly those in India."

 

We should not forget about the first out of ten rules: not to blander any devotees who dedicated their life to serve God.

 

Imagine people say that about Srila Prabhupada: did Srila Prabhupada rape small children? Did Srila Prabhupada distribute drugs to maintain temples like his disciples did in USA?

 

Firstly, we have to be sure if accusation is true, and then prove it. Not to blunder any saintly person.

 

Mother Theresa did not just make a lot of prasadam and come to the major squre in the city to distribute it. No. She took dying people and MAINTAIN them. Give them clothes, food and keep them warm in cold Calcutta winters. She payed for their funurals. She took babies and maintained them. It takes a little bit more money then just make some prasadam and distribute it.

 

I was personally in Mayapur, when an old lady in white sari came to take prasadam inside the temple compound. She was refused, because she was coming for a second time that day. Devotees were scared they would spend more money if she would start coming regulary.

 

How many devotees would join Srila Prabhupada, if Srila Prabhupada would initiate the fifth command - "eternaly to be poor, without a personal possesion"? It means no silk, no servants, no golden cups, no opulent maha prasadam?

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Of course, no one is perfect, but she seems an unlikely person to have been found living high on the hog.

I think the main accusation on the website is that she did not use the money for helping the needy in India.

 

It is likely she viewed her religious duty (to train nuns, convert people, etc.) as higher than the moral duty. To send money to the Vatican was probably considered more spiritual than to feed poor people in Calcutta. If thats the case, then they had misrepresented themselves to donors.

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

She took dying people and MAINTAIN them. Give them clothes, food and keep them warm in cold Calcutta winters. She payed for their funurals. She took babies and maintained them. It takes a little bit more money then just make some prasadam and distribute it.

 

According to the allegations made by certain people in Calcutta, there is no evidence that she spent anywhere near the hundreds of millions of dollars she raised from donors in charity. Most of the money went to western countries to run nuneries.

 

In Calcutta they feed 300 to 400 people a day (costing roughly $60) (but the poor must have a special ID card, which is basically only given to Christians). Their ward for the sick has 95 beds, and only those with absolutely no living relatives are allowed to be admitted. They are required to pass publicly in the open, and the refuse runs into the open drainage. It has been pointed out that the nuns have proper toilet facilities, but not the patients. Couldn't a little of those hundreds of millions of dollars have been used to build a closed toilet for the patients?

 

I certainly wouldn't want to pass with dozens of people watching me, and neither would the nuns.

 

They did some charity, but nothing compared to the hundreds of millions in donations they received. There have been calls for audits by the government, but politicians from the Congress party have interferred every time. If there is nothing wrong with their accounts, then why does the Congress party refuse to allow an audit?

 

[karthik_v]

MOC = Missionaries of Charity

BOV = Bank of Vatican (I don't recall its Latin version)

CAG = Comptroller and Auditor General of India (an autnomous audit authority).

 

Only, the foreigners who visit Calcutta on a few days of mission, ever carry the impression that Teresa was serving the poor in Calcutta. Not the Calcuttans. But, kindly don't even make such a remark to the slum-dwellers of Calcutta. They will assault you. You would be rubbing salt to their wounds. They are sick of foreign channels frequenting them and spreading myths.

 

Next time try calling MOC, Calcutta. Nobody will speak in Bangali. They can't speak anything more than four words in Hindi (Boliye, Aapko kya chaahiye, Aap Angrezime baath kijiye). So, in what language were they serving the poor of Calcutta? Latin?

 

If MOC is really caring for the dying, you should have their ambulance services listed in Calcutta yellow pages, isn't it?

 

BTW, another piece of information I need to give you is that Teresa, for all her proclaimed simplicity, always flew to Baltimore to be treated at John Hopkins. Stern once listed all her visits, with a copy of the bills and flight tickets. So, simplicity was only advocated for the poor of Calcutta.

 

There are even people that venerate Pius XII, despite the fact he was responsible for Hitler's rise. Even the very Jewish Rothschild trust venerated him. Big deal! The world is full of crooks who will sell their mothers for getting a pizza. Did anyone criticize him when he lived? So, I am not surprised that Teresa has been venerated. If CNN and Time start a campaign stating that Karthik is the greatest saint that India has seen, I bet, 99% of the people will not dare to refute that. In a few months, that myth would get etched as Gospel. Many made millions thanks to her. In a few years, people will slowly start accepting the truth about Teresa.

 

J N Das Prabhu,

 

The 300-400 people the MOC fed includes their own workforce.

 

Shvu,

 

My friend has had very close association with MOC, for he married a young nun from MOC. And taught her Bengali and Hindi after marriage! Nothing happened without Teresa's knowledge. She had such a tight control over every dollar that flowed in and out.

 

Yashoda DD:

 

Anyway, many people say filthy things about Srila Prabhupad. Do you know something? Every Indian newspaper publicised the class action lawsuit against ISKCON. The US papers did that. But, none published the news when the suit was thrown out. So, out of such misplaced fears, let us not venerate crooks like Teresa, who just helped the likes of Marcos launder money, while Philipines starved. SP will remain in the minds of devotees and the sane ones forever.

 

Anyway, virtually all her medicines came free from the Government of India. She even administered Crocin (Tylenol) for people dying of pneumonia or AIDS. Her MOC had 2 doctors and they administerd shots using unsterilized syringes. Often, unable to bear with her tortures (in the name of Jesus of course), patients would try to escape, only to be brought back by the 18 sentinels posted in front of MOC. Pray tell me why the hell MOC needs 18 sentinels?

 

And don't forget that Teresa, for most part, used the Municipal hospital, Kalighat. It was government's money, government's doctors and nurses and fame to Teresa. How many of you ever contemplated as to why Teresa, set up her institution near Kalighat in the 1940? For those who are unaware of geography, the famous mission of Sri Ramakrishna Pramahamsa (Vivekananda was his disciple) is stone's throw away from there. I suggest that some of you read up on the encyclicals of Vatican that was very concerned with the surging popularity of RKM and wanted to nullify it. Bingo! Thus arrived Teresa, the money launderer (aka saint).

[Avinash]

If there is nothing wrong with their accounts, then why does the Congress party refuse to allow an audit?

 

But, why should Congress be worried?

 

 

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by jndas:

I think the main accusation on the website is that she did not use the money for helping the needy in India.

 

It is likely she viewed her religious duty (to train nuns, convert people, etc.) as higher than the moral duty. To send money to the Vatican was probably considered more spiritual than to feed poor people in Calcutta. If thats the case, then they had misrepresented themselves to donors.

 

I don't know about their sending money to the Vatican any more than I know how much of the millions collected by ISKCON "sankirtan" activities over the years were spent to feed the hungry in, say, Bangladesh (one big line in the '70s), was actually spent on food relief (my guess is little to none). I assume there's often more accountability these days, particularly in the case of Bhaktivedanta Ashram. I have some evidence, though, that in many ISKCON centers the managers resis any real financial accountability.

 

Without sin? Never had any connection with a project that wasn't aboveboard with its finances? Here's a handful--toss away!

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

But, why should Congress be worried?

Because Indira gandhi and Sonia Gandhi are closely connected to her. Thus the congress party has to act to protect her.

 

Though Mother Therese claimed to be nonpolitical, yet she participate in elections by casting her vote in favour of Congree, as did her nuns. She gathered the Christian vote for the congress party, and as a result she received protection from them, not to mention that Sonia Gandhi was from Italy and a catholic. She would obviously have an interest in protecting her name.

 

Probably Karthik could give a better reply, as he is more knowledgeable about the political environment involved.

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Avinash:

But, why should Congress be worried?

 

Many reasons. If Congress antagonised Teresa, you end up upsetting the sizeable Christian populations in Kerala and Goa and lose those states. You also dump your chances of ever getting a foothold in the Christian NE. After the defeat in 1977, that was the last thing Congress can ever afford to do. The moment you go after Teresa, you not only antagonise the minority but also boost the prospects of the Hindu parties, which were just emerging in the 80s.

 

Even BJP will be very wary of taking on someone as powerful as Teresa. It is very very tough to go against a media opinion cultivated over decades. Often the risks of unmasking the truth are so high, that a government may just shove the entire matter under the carpet. Don't forget as to how Teresa kicked up media frenzy when CAG demanded probe. She made melodramatic statements that she is only accountable to the Lord. Starting from Chawla to Ram, every pseudo-secular sycophant wrote sympathising with her. Never mind that nobody spoke of the points that the CAG had raised. They just spoke of the bandages and the lepers. Naturally, Congress developed cold feet.

 

Of course, no one should also forget that Sonia hails from an Italian family that was a close ally of Mussolini and also brokered peace between Vatican and Mussolini. One also cannot forget that the vast network of Sonia's family has been used in the past to smuggle out the temple statues from India and have them auctioned through Christie, after channelising them through Catholic stores in Italy and Luxembourg. So, there was a personal stake as well.

 

Stonehearted:

 

First of all, ISKCON doesn't have the millions that Vatican or MOC have. Most ISKCON temples are in eternal penury. Yes, I agree with you that even ISKCON bosses may resist accountability, but don't forget one thing. ISKCON's accounts are publicly audited every year in every nation in the world. That is not the case with Teresa, who keeps rotating her funds between Panama, US, Luxembourg more astutely than a mafia don. So, don't compare a child who may pilfer her sister's chocolate (assuming that ISKCON does that) with a mafia don.