Chinese Devotees

[Gauracandra]

I have heard or read (don't remember where) that Srila Prabhupada said that China would be the last place to take to Krsna Consciousness. But that when they do, the Chinese devotees would be the most serious practitioners in the world. I was thinking perhaps Pita Prabhu or Lehy might have some insight into how Chinese view Krsna Consciousness. Also, if anyone else has stories about preaching in Chinese communities I would be interested.

 

Gauracandra

[Pita das]

There are many hundreds of Chinese devottees within China Mainland .

Im sure out of this number already there are many very serious ones.

 

The translations of Srila Prabhupadas books tho need to be refined as clearly as possible to assit them.

 

We have heard that the Buddhist scriptures had to be re tanslated at least 3 times until the proper meanings took effect and this can only be done by devottee translators and better by ones of Chinese birth.

China is rich in culture and tradition as is India.

 

They have also a more than 5000 year history.

 

Due to the population size tho the goverment must inforce strict controlls which is hard for the western mind to understand why.

 

What is real and true the Chinese people will never reject as on a whole I have never been within such an intelligence class of people.

 

Even maybe 75% are all country folk

 

They tho will study Lord Chaitanys message very deeply and when they see true examples

they will take up Krishna Consciousness

 

Like in India today much of what is known of religion is seen in Kung Fu movies

Which has no effects or use to society

 

 

[leyh]

It is rather difficult to assess how Chinese would take to Krsna Consciousness as there are Chinese all over the world living in a diversity of social conditions.

 

As a spirit soul having been in a Chinese material body for the past twenty three plus years and having been exposed to Chinese culture since I was a child,I have to say that Chinese culture has a side which is deeply materialistic.During the Celebrations of the Lunar New Year for example,there are many slogans wishing for material prosperity with the advent of the New Year,and many unmarried people look forward to the red packets of cash given by married relatives.I still feel happy to collect all those red packets of money from my relatives and my mind furiously calculates how to spend the cash after the packets have been stuffed into my pocket.It is a Chinese custom to pray to deities like the God of Wealth for material benediction,and in Singapore it is a rather common practice for Chinese who to pray to these deities for "lucky" lottery numbers.

 

This materialistic side of Chinese culture,I fear, could be a serious impediment to the Chinese taking to Krsna Consciousness.However,with Krsna,anything is possible.

 

On the other hand,Chinese culture has its beautiful side too.Traits like loyalty,righteousness,filial piety and service of community over others are emphasized in Chinese culture and I'm sure it is possible to somehow dovetail these and other worthy traits into Krsna Consciousness.

 

In Singapore's Waterloo Street,neat the Bugis Mass Rapid Transit Station (the Singaporean equivalent of the subway), in Singapore,there is a Sri Krishna Temple which is beside the "Kuan Yin Temple" (dedicated to the Buddhist Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara).It is a common sight to see Chinese devotees offering incense and obeisances to the deities.I'm not sure if they know who Sri Sri Radha Krsna is,but nevertheless,their worship of The Divine Couple will surely be of transcendental benefit for them!

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 01-29-2002).]

[stonehearted]

Because of the nature of the political climate in mainland China, we will mostly have to wait a long time to hear stories of the preaching there. What stories I've heard were in private meetings with one who knows first hand. When the stories are able to be told, we will be awed by the sacrifice and dedication of those devotees.

[Gauracandra]

Lehy, would you say Chinese are more materialistic than westerners? That just seems a bit odd to me. But I don't have much first hand knowledge of Chinese culture. Also, how would you guys compare Chinese philosophy with Krsna Consciousness. I was thinking there could be many similarities. First with the Buddhist influence the belief in Karma, vegetarianism, etc.... This could be a good foundation on which Krsna Consciousness could build on.

 

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

I just noticed, but my fingers must be slipping as I type. I keep spelling Leyh as Lehy sorry about that

[gauraprema]

Haribol!

 

I've been reading these posts with interest... I still remember the times, in my early days with the Singapore temple, I was asked to spearhead Harinama parties in the city and other spots, like Singapore's famous 'Chinatown'. AT that time, there were only 3 Chinese in the Temple, myself, another lady and a prabhu. It was rather fun, we'd get out there with a mridanga, guitar and karatalas, and sit down in a public place and chant and sing for about an hour or so, then the Temple van would come and pick us up. Most of the time what we got were weird stares, but there were the casual interested onlookers, which only gave us more and more heart to carry on. We did this for a couple of weeks, then the Vice President took over organising it.. partly because if my mother saw me sitting in the streets and chanting she would kill me! <grin>

 

I think Chinese as a whole have a strong work ethic, hard work to earn a living, to make life good. I admire and pay my respectful obeisances to all the Chinese devotees from mainland China, because it is definitely a hard political climate to be in, and to try and practise Krishna Consciousness. I daresay in Singapore, things are not that much different. Authorities still stop devotees who are wearing full devotional attire from entering the airport, or Singapore... But I think in terms of Chinese there being more materialistic, I'd have to agree with Leyh. Their lives are caught up with the pursuit of material happiness. Sometimes while preaching, it is difficult to talk through their material consciousness, but we try.

 

Just my two cents worth..

 

Your servant

gauraprema

[leyh]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Lehy, would you say Chinese are more materialistic than westerners? That just seems a bit odd to me. But I don't have much first hand knowledge of Chinese culture. Also, how would you guys compare Chinese philosophy with Krsna Consciousness. I was thinking there could be many similarities. First with the Buddhist influence the belief in Karma, vegetarianism, etc.... This could be a good foundation on which Krsna Consciousness could build on.

 

Gauracandra

Gauracandra:

 

I can't say whether the Chinese are more materialistic than Westerners.It's always inaccurate to make any sweeping statements.Also,Confucianism (which probably has as much influence on the Chinese psyche as Buddhism)is actually quite anti-materialistic.In The Analects,it is said that Confucius seldom spoke of profit.The following words are attributed to Confucius:

 

"Wealth and honor are what every man desires. But if they have been obtained in violation of the Way, they must not be kept. Poverty and humble station are what every man dislikes. But if they can be avoided only in violation of the Way, they must not be avoided. If a gentleman departs from goodness, how can he fulfill that name? A gentleman never abandons goodness even for the lapse of a single meal. In moments of haste, he acts according to it. In times of difficulty or confusion, he acts according to it." (Analects4.5)

 

How would I compare Krsna Consciousness with Chinese philosophy?Well,the traditional Confucian view of providence is rather mixed,ranging from a vaguely impersonal "Heaven" to the Jade Emperor who reigns from his palace in the sky with.Then there are the Buddhists who,as we already know,deny the existence of a personal God.It seems to me that the concept of devotional service without any thought for personal benefit is virtually alien in Chinese religion,although Confucianism does teaches that we should engage in righteousness not for personal profit,but merely because it is "the right thing to do".

you wrote:"First with the Buddhist influence the belief in Karma, vegetarianism, etc.... This could be a good foundation on which Krsna Consciousness could build on." I agree.Buddhist culture is very prominent among the Chinese in Singapore,Malaysia,Taiwan and to a certain etent,even Mainland China,and I'm sure many Chinese who have been exposed to Buddhism would find Krsna Consciousness appealing.

 

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I just noticed, but my fingers must be slipping as I type. I keep spelling Leyh as Lehy sorry about that

Gauracandra:

 

It's ok....or as the Americans would say,its no big deal

 

 

[karthik_v]

I was reading recently, though I can't remember the source, about a research in the food habits among the Chinese and the Korean people. The study covered the past 6 decades. It showed that with increase in economic wealth, these people too shifted from a pre-dominantly vegetarian diet to a pre-dominantly meat-based diet. Looks like that material prosperity too can be an obstacle for spiritual progress.

[Gauracandra]

Thanks for the insights. I really don't know much about Chinese culture, but I can see a number of your points. Your comment that the notion of devotional service without expectation of reward is non-existant was particularly intriguing.

 

Also is any religion allowed in China right now? I always hear about Falun Gong people being tortured and tormented, and Stonehearted's comments made me concerned that devotees might be undergoing similar treatment. Any info on current preaching?

 

Gauracandra

[laksri]

Is there a "BG AS IT IS" in chineese ? And is it available in the US ? Any pointer is a welcome.

 

[This message has been edited by laksri (edited 01-31-2002).]

[Pita das]

yes Bhagavat Gita is advailble in Chinese

from the BBT in Hong Kong.

 

There has been 2 translations so far.

The Chinese devottees tho in the mainland complaints are that it wasnt an improvement

on the frist translation?

They found many objectional references within that mislead the reader away from

Srila Prabhupadas original meaning?

 

They placed a critisme on vnn a year or so back????????????????

 

We actually havent any way to know?

Two non Chinese devottees were working on the last translation which is impossible.

Any Chinese birth person can understand how impossible a task it is to translate useing persons with 5 to 10 years Chinese learning

 

One of these prabhus uses a translator to give classes so it very unreal how he was

given the service to retranslate that which was already translated by Yasomati Suta Prabhu?

 

There was cristism that Yasos translations used words which one only finds in a dictionary .

 

He pesonally told me how difficult it is because he needed to use words which had no Buddhist afilliation with them which was difficult as Buddhist throught is deeply

staterated into the Chinese lanuage?

Yaso was also instructed by (Srila Prabhupada or present BBT authority)to remove any cristism of any goverment leaders which may appear.

 

If you are a Chinese speaker by birth it may be a nice service for you to take up and assit in.

 

You can contact His Holiness Gridhari Maharaja in Hong Kong

 

As Yaso is now with in the ritvik camp Im sure his translations althrought on going will not be printed any longer by the current BBT

 

 

[This message has been edited by Pita das (edited 01-31-2002).]

[Shashi]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I just noticed, but my fingers must be slipping as I type. I keep spelling Leyh as Lehy sorry about that

 

Slippery fingers? I know the feeling.

 

 

[Shashi]

The thing is that all cultures have a heavy materialistic side and we get so used to it that we may not notice it at the subtle level as readily as we notice it from another culture.

 

Did anyone see that funny documentary about the african socialogist reporting on tribal practices in middle europe?

[Gauracandra]

Shashi,

 

I agree I think every culture has a materialistic side. Perhaps it is more perception. I have been told that many chinese parents when they come to the U.S. and succeed, they will spoil their children. The idea being that they struggled so hard before, and now that they have succeeded they want their children to live comfortably.

 

Gauracandra

[Gauracandra]

Oh yeah, by all means tell us about this documentary

[Shashi]

Do you knoW what I clean forgot the title. I'll ask some friends and then tell you.

 

When I'll be past junior membership I will start my own topic about it.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Shashi (edited 02-03-2002).]

[xvi000]

At 1st, Please notice my word that there is no country in the world could be treated as a particular country.

 

As a spirit soul having been in a Chinese material body for the past twenty three plus years and having been exposed to Chinese culture since I was a child,I have to say that Chinese culture has a side which is deeply materialistic.

Unfortunately that appears to be true. Even a materialist would be uncomfortable if you damned him with "to hell" or "die". Let's see the others. When they get into some trouble, right away they remember that there is sth. named "God". After saying "God help me", they throw away it like an idol or trash soon. In a word, it's hard to find a 100% theist now.

 

Revelation

3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

Also, how would you guys compare Chinese philosophy with Krsna Consciousness. I was thinking there could be many similarities. First with the Buddhist influence the belief in Karma, vegetarianism, etc.... This could be a good foundation on which Krsna Consciousness could build on.

The 1st thing you will do must be comparing Buddhism & Bhakti. They are quite alike.

 

Also is any religion allowed in China right now? I always hear about Falun Gong people being tortured and tormented, and Stonehearted's comments made me concerned that devotees might be undergoing similar treatment. Any info on current preaching?

Ask yourselves "why Fa Lun (Dharma Wheel) Gong boomed & declined so rapid in China instead of India?" Because China & India are Different Material concepts, & all religions are the trees rooted in different soils.

 

He pesonally told me how difficult it is because he needed to use words which had no Buddhist afilliation with them which was difficult as Buddhist throught is deeply staterated into the Chinese lanuage?

It's impossible to clear some Buddhistic terms from Chinese brains. You have to treated Buddhism as Bhakti's brother. For a Chinese, your translations looks odd & the names & terms are too long. Chinese char.s are complicated, aren't they?

[Shashi]

Originally posted by xvi000:

Chinese char.s are complicated, aren't they?

Are you chinese?

 

 

[xvi000]

You know who I am.

[Shashi]

Originally posted by xvi000:

You know who I am.

No I dont.

 

[makhanmisri]

 

Originally posted by karthik_v:

<<<<<food habits among the Chinese and the Korean people.>>>>

It's pretty well documented that from time to tme throughout their long history, the Chinese have shown a willingness to eat other people, too. The well known author Lu Xun wrote a novel adopting this theme.

 

MDd

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by leyh:

As a spirit soul having been in a Chinese material body for the past twenty three plus years

leyh,

I always thought you were an Indian from Mumbai???Walllahhhhhh!

 

Confucianism and buddhism did influence the thinking of the aged generation here in Singapore. For todays generation its just the western crows - Michael Jackson and his parampara.

 

They still sincerely follow some rituals like offering food to ghosts and also to pithras.

 

Chinese are proud to claim that they do anything for their food. They can travel all the way to HK from Singapore just to taste some Cantonese food. One of my colleague told me that their parents fast on one day of the Lunar month.

 

Another feedback I got from my colleague was that, by becoming too religious we lose out on the material front.

 

My feeling abt the Chinese in Singapore is that, they are very nice people as far as general dealings are concerned. They are not very arrogant but mild. They are hard workers. The influence of the west has made ladies lose their shame, they prefer the shortest skirts and don't mind kissing and hugging in public, which wd be considered uncultured in India or Mainland China(i hope).

 

Christianity is spreading faster than forest fire. Their are Churches which convert Chinese in large numbers every week on Sunday meetings. Still, there are a lot of Budhist, Taoists and "free thinkers", too.

 

I am sure in mainland China there wd certainly be a lot of opposition from the communist govt. Mao Tse-Tung beleived that "religion is the opium of manking". Once HH Kavicandra Swami exclaimed that, "as long as we are not too public and don't try to demonstrate our strength in the open, there shd not be any problem, preaching in China".

 

In HK the temple is trying to attract devotees by marketing yoga. They conduct a Yoga class in the temple premises. Whoever interested come-over they are preached to.

 

In Singapore the overall number of Chinese devotees are very low. I have personally only seen a couple of them. So, I had a pleasant surprise to discover leyh was a Chinese. Some might connected to the Ritwik temple run by Sundar Gopal Prabhu.

 

I have been always thinking if I cd influence atleast one Chinese person to chant, but am not succesful. Not so pure!! Anyway, will continue with whatever little faith I have on Krishna's name as long as I am here. Beg for the blessings of all Vaishnavas, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE, Dandavats.

 

pritivite ache nagaradi grame.....

 

Hale Klishna (the chinese in Singapore pronounce 'la' for 'ra') Solly solly-la.

 

Abhi

 

[This message has been edited by abhi_the_great (edited 04-08-2002).]

[xxvvii]

Lu Xun -- lu shyn (y -- greek (palatalized) 'u')

Mao Tse Tung -- mau dze Dong (e -- weakest)

 

I don't think PinYin to be perfect. For ex. --

 

wo -- wo, wen -- ven

nu -- nu, niu -- NYiu

man -- man, tian -- tien

nuo -- nuo, po -- puo

hen -- hen, he -- he (e -- weakest)