atma Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 I'm watching Mahabharat and just now Yudhistira is upset because Kunti Devi never told them that Karna was their elder brother. Because she kept it secret, he cursed all womanhood to never be able to keep a secret. Very interesting.... Now Gandhari is going to protect Duryodhana with all her shakti and Krsna just came in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Atma ji, Do you think that the curse worked? Are you able to keep any secret? Now, I am not watching Mahabharata. I used to watch it years back when it was telecasted on DD. Has anybody read Mahabharata epic? Is this curse really mentioned in the epic or is it a figment of the imagination of B.R. Chopra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atma Posted February 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 I'm very good in keeping secrets but if by any reason something slip out out of my mouth, I can always mention Yudhistir's curse on us, poor women I read Mahabharat years ago and I knew about this curse from the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted February 5, 2002 Report Share Posted February 5, 2002 Are you aware of any curse given to all men either in Mahabharata or in any other scripture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Yes. They have to marry such women. That's curse enough. Atmajini: Poor women? Or poor intelligence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Tarun, you betta watch it, you're putting all of us men in a precarious spot Atma has been known to fire off many an anti-male joke, without hardly taking a breath I'm going to run and duck for cover... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted February 6, 2002 Report Share Posted February 6, 2002 Tarun ji wrote , "Atmajini". jini??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Atma has been known to fire off many an anti-male joke, without hardly taking a breath Did you notice something interesting in her anti-male jokes? They are symmetric. Just replace 'male' by 'female' and 'female' by 'male' in her jokes. What you get are also jokes, albeit anti-female now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atma Posted February 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Me? Anti-male. No way. I love men, they are my gurus in every respect on how not to do the wrong things. I learn from them all the time. Do I want to become a man in my next life? No way, no more male-female stuff for me, I want to serve the only male, Lord Sri Krsna. BTW, Tarunjini, how come if the male race is so intelligent all you do is hanker for the ones with the poor intelligence?. Maybe you should hang out with your own intelligent types. Hey, is that why there are so many gays around???? Avinash, I'm not aware of a curse in all men in the scriptures. Maybe somebody else knows about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 Hanker? Just to inject them with real intelligence. Curse? If you contract some disease, you must suffer. That's curse enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRdd Posted February 7, 2002 Report Share Posted February 7, 2002 LOL! Atma is right on form, love the improv, sister. Right on. (hee hee hee) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 If our visibly higher pours into their significantly lower, sans losing its own superior hiatus, height & highness in the interim, then naturally, step by step, stup by stup, the overall human intellectual average increases more & more thereby.. Thus, we can easily see, grasp & comprehend how one's own totally sincere unmotivated, desireless, selfless, stupendous spirit for executing wonderful, wholistic, welfare work aimed at all women of all ages certainly culminates in.. And furthermore.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Atmaji: the only male, Lord Sri Krsna. Does it mean that your jokes which we thought to be anti-male were, in reality, anti-Krsna? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 MahAbharat show how even super-great personalities can apparently make one or two mistakes of such grave consequences, indeed, causing an entire yuga shift. Bye bye Dvapara! Hello Kali! This is Louis, Kali. It's so nice to have you back where you belong. After Treta/Dvapara swap, Kaliyuga put things back in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushil_kanoria Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hey Tarun, ----------- "After Treta/Dvapara swap, Kaliyuga put things back in order." ----------- Can you tell me in detail about this swap. Sushil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Further, by definition secrecy means the empowerments of some at the cost of the disempowerment of the other? You can just as well change the word empowerment to "protection". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suryaz Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 I am confused - - I do not get it. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 02-08-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suryaz Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 I am confused - - I do not get it. This can only be a “curse” if secrecy is believed to be a good thing. But is it a good thing? We should consider what is at play behind secrecy. Does secrecy not bring into play duplicities? = Yes We can then ask where there is duplicity can there be honesty, truthfulness etc? Further, by definition secrecy means the empowerments of some at the cost of the disempowerment of the other? There is certainly not equality in access to knowledge in secrecy. If the ‘curse’ (so called) is dealt with in a positive way, and if honesty (rather than duplicity) is the goal we could say women have a benediction and are instruments of honesty So why does the author promote it as a curse? Remember Quote "The 81st verse: Tri-satyasya bhaktir eva gariyasii bhaktir eva gariiyasii" "For the one who is truthful in three ways, devotion is dearest, devotion is dearest to him" "[Truthful in thee ways – with body, mind and words. His activities, thoughts and speech are coherent with each other.]" "Is this not the foundation for any functional social relation – what to speak of spiritual love (bhakti)?" End of Quote We could then ask if the author is dealing lila-specific. In such a case would not the incident only be applicable to women of the lila and not of womankind in human society? [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 02-08-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suryaz Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Originally posted by jndas: You can just as well change the word empowerment to "protection". Yes Jndas but nevertheless -"protection" by definition means the dis-empowerment of somebody. The notion of protection depends on the existence of some kind of dis-empowerment. This brings into play the notion of the other Why does one need to be protected in the first-place - In other words why should there be the 'other' in the first place. It is only when injustice of dis-empowerment is made legal, institutionalised, that a group of people are identified as the 'other'. If a society stands on just, honest and truthful foundations the 'other' should not exist. - If society offers equality in opportunity and access to power to all its member dis-empowerment will not exist at least institutionally. So what does one need protection from - brute or force of the creators of the 'other' no doubt? Encouragement through affirmative action is the better term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Originally posted by jndas: You can just as well change the word empowerment to "protection". Sure, like `protecting` cows to steal their milk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Not everyone is qualified for confidential knowledge. Some will misuse it, others will ridicule it. Thus the Lord Himself keeps the greatest secret of all, the raja-guhyam, which also happens to be the king of knowledge, the raja-vidya. Knowledge is not for everyone without qualification. Thus it is necessary to keep secrets, such as that of mantra-upadesha. Such knowledge, if given to an unqualified receiver, causes more damage to them, which is the opposite purpose of knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suryaz Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Originally posted by jndas: Not everyone is qualified for confidential knowledge. Some will misuse it, others will ridicule it. Thus the Lord Himself keeps the greatest secret of all, the raja-guhyam, which also happens to be the king of knowledge, the raja-vidya. Knowledge is not for everyone without qualification. Thus it is necessary to keep secrets, such as that of mantra-upadesha. Such knowledge, if given to an unqualified receiver, causes more damage to them, which is the opposite purpose of knowledge. Krsna made BG an “open secret” and therefore not a secret. He too opposed secrecy. His raja-vidya is for all regardless of caste, creed, colour or gender. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 02-09-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valaya Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Originally posted by suryaz: Krsna made BG an “open secret” and therefore not a secret. He too opposed secrecy. His raja-vidya is for all regardless of caste, creed, colour or gender. [This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 02-09-2002).] ...and Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in the ecstasy of Mahabhava Srimati Radharani has plundered the treasure house and is freely distributing the very highest to the absolute least among us, without consideration of qualification or disqualification. Suryaz, beware of `priests` who try to convince you of your need for their `protection` and guidance. They are not in control of anyone's personal relationship with the Supreme (including Sri Guru), though many believe that they are. Let your inner faith be greater than theirs' by depending solely and wholly on God's Loving Grace. Technical processes have unlimited pitfalls, but the personal path, followed with the simple trusting heart of a child, has very few. When it comes to pure Bhakti, intellectualization just won't do. My God, even the word itself is intimidating! valaya ------------------ Radhe Radhe always Radhe! HARIBOL! HARIBOL! HARIBOL! amanpeter@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atma Posted February 9, 2002 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Originally posted by Avinash: Atmaji: the only male, Lord Sri Krsna. Does it mean that your jokes which we thought to be anti-male were, in reality, anti-Krsna? Avinash, Krsna is not an ordinary male and that you know very well. The jokes are for the ones that identify with the body, male and female, it doesn't matter. BUT, in my humble opinion I think it's better to be in a woman body because you are supposed to be inferior to the so-called man and that makes you a little humble. Men think that they are the masters and women are the servants Still they don't get it, the poor things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 We must beware of Srila Prabhupada because he was one such ‘priest’ who believed in 'secrets'. A perfect case in point is when Srila Prabhupada broke up the infamous ‘Gopi bhava’ club. This was a group of devotees who only wanted to study the intimate pastimes of Radha and Krsna. Srila Prabhupada knew these individuals were unqualified and swiftly chastised them, and broke up their club. What secrets was he trying to keep them away from? Truly we must beware the proponents of false devotion. How can we spot such individuals? The surest way to know, is by their constant protestations of their devotion. They will tell anyone and everyone of how devoted they are. Of what a personal relationship they have with God. They will make a big show and performance to constantly remind people that they are so devotional. “See, see I said Radhe, Radhe, and I made it bold AND italicized”. Devotion becomes nothing more than words typed on a screen or cheap displays to draw attention to oneself. It quickly turns into an unprincipled mess. Such activities are surely the exact opposite of true devotion. And the proponents of such cheap devotion will only lead people down an unprincipled path of false devotion “You don’t need no guru, just follow your feelings”. Oh yes, the wanderings of a materially deluded mind. It is much safer to follow the instructions of someone of the character of Srila Prabhupada. He believed in and preached a vigorous philosophy, not cheap sentimentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.