Kanti-mala

[beemasane]

dang this here ol' burr under my saddle...i feel a glorification a' comin on...this thread has got me to thinkin' about the accoutrements of devotional seva, in colloquial terminolgy, better known as "devotee paraphenalia"...and oddball loveable devotees. i had the good fortune of visiting the Vancouver Canada(Madan Mohan Kee) yatra in 1974 and came to know of a one Vijitatma(spel.?)(GHari, you might know of whom i speak reverently of here)...anyways, ol' Vijjey...mmmmm...this guy didn't have an arrogant bone in his body! you would never and i mean NEVER find "Vij" without his nose stuck in a Srimad Bhagawatam, literally and figuratively. it was incredible how he was always like this at any time i would see him at Rath. other yatras, etc. but in Mayapur in 1975 Vijjey completely stole my heart...a minor note here: i still have my list of favorite devotees(a few from Audarya too!)to this day i will never forget how he sky-rocketed to the top of my list as a never to be replaced hero,when here i was sitting in the Holy Dham of Lord Chaitanya for the first morning of my life when Vijitatma comes walking out with...now picture this...tilok swastikas and haribols and Hare Krishnas all over his torso, neck beads galore 3 thick inches of copper wire around each and every appendage, screaming like there was no tomorrow during the Tulasi arotik(thus, another relevant fact germane to this here post: Kanti Mala.) you would have had to seen this transcendental madman for Krishna, and i mean this when i say this, he made me cry for joy(and i've been to some pretty whoop it up Tulasi arotiks in my time too, Prabhus.). over the years i have lost contact with him, but the ravages of time will NEVER destroy the wonderful memory of this guy, who still as i am typing am crying in separation for...and wherever he still is: "hari bol VIJ! Vaisnavas, go figure..carnsarnnit, a fine boy howdayadoo and haribol to'em all...this is buckeroo-beemus a' signin' off fer now...om, om, on the range...

[leyh]

Originally posted by beemasane:

when i was living in hawaii in i had the exremely good fortune of being on 31 consecutive morning walks with Srila Prabhupada. on one of these walks, Hayagriva das had come to see Srila prabhupad and i watched Srila Prabhupada crying tears down his face while he embraced Hayagiva saying " you have come back". All Glories to the Most Merciful Srila Prabhpada! with love and affection to all the fallen Vaisnavas, Prabhpada is waiting for you.

 

[This message has been edited by beemasane (edited 03-22-2002).]

beemasne Prabhu:

 

Could you tell us a little more about these morning walks with Srila Prabhupada? I think that even the most apparently mundane detail about Srila Prabhupada can delight the devotees here...

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by leyh (edited 03-23-2002).]

[gHari]

Yes, yes, yes!

[beemasane]

hi everybody, i just got off the buttons to Bhakta Don and it took me a long time to type and also i am going to get kicked off of the computer soon by my very wonderful sons and wife who think i have gone nuts for hanging out at the "cyberian Yatra" too much. however, i will tell you this much for right now, i was there on the "Sea Sufferer" day. Prabhupada and the devotees were coming along the beach edge of the Alamoana (sp.) beach when He got to the corner of the park He stood and just looked for what seemed like about a full minute, i just remember it was longer than some of his other pauses, He's just watching very intently and then started to talk about the Sea sufferers and about how this was mystical potency. He wasn't talking heavy about them like He had been doing for some time about the scientists. it was a kind of interesting tone, but make He made it clear about the suffering..anyways i am getting serious flack and a few incoming hits here...i'll be back after honoring the Vaisnava family.

[gHari]

<CENTER><IMG SRC=http://www-ee.eng.hawaii.edu/~cca99/surfer.gif WIDTH=556 HEIGHT=333>

 

 

<H3> <FONT COLOR=BLUE>EVERYBODY'S GONE SURFIN' - SUFFERIN' U.S.A.</CENTER></FONT></H3>

 

Possibly that very afternoon on May 8th '76 in Honolulu in a SB 6.1.7 lecture, Srila Prabhupada uses the suffering surferers to preach:

Prabhupada: This morning we were talking about the sufferers, what is called? The sea suffers?

Devotees: Surfers.

PrabhupAda: Surfer, yes. (devotees laugh) Surfer. I call "sufferer.Sea-sufferer." (laughter) Sea-surfer, it is practical because we are creating a situation by which we shall become a fish. Yes. Contamination. Just like if you purposely contaminate some disease you must suffer from that disease. KAraNaM guNa-saGgo 'sya sad-asad janma-yoniSu [bg. 13.22], in the Bhagavad-gItA. Why there are different varieties of life? What is the reason? That reason means kAraNam. KRSNa says in the Bhagavad..., kAraNaM guNa-saGgo 'sya sad-asad janma-yoniSu. PrakRteH kriyamANAni prakRti-stho 'pi puruSaH bhuJjante tad-guNAn. So the reason is as we are infecting. The nature's law is so perfect that you infect something, some disease, some contamination, then you must suffer. This is nature's law, automatically going on. KAraNaM guNa-saGgo 'sya.

 

So there are three modes of material nature--goodness, passion, and ignorance. So long we are in this material world, puruSaH prakRti-stho 'pi bhuJjante tad-guNAn. If we remain in certain place, we must be affected by the modes of that place. So there are three modes, sattva-guNa, rajo-guNa. We have to associate either with the modes of goodness or with the modes of passion or with the modes of ignorance. Now, three into three, it becomes nine, and nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. So mixture. Just like color. There are three colors: blue, red and yellow. Now, those who are expert in manufacturing color, artists, they mix these three colors in different way and they display. Similarly, according to the guNas or mixture, association--kAraNaM guNa-saGgo 'sya--we get different types of bodies. Therefore we see so many varieties of bodies. KAraNaM guNa-saGgo 'sya [bg. 13.22]. So the person who is taking very much pleasure, dancing in the sea like fish, so he is contaminating that modes of nature so that in next life he will become a fish. He'll be very free to dance with the ocean. (laughter) Now it will take again millions of years to come to the stage of human being. JalajA nava-lakSANi sthAvarA lakSa-viMzati. He has to pass through the fish life. There are 900,000 different species of life. Then you again come to the land--you become trees, plants, and so on. Two millions different forms you have to go through. That is evolution. Darwin's theory of evolution, that is not perfectly explained. It is explained in the Vedic literature. So just a tree is standing for ten thousands of years, we had to pass through this life. But there is no perfect knowledge. We are thinking we are now very nice American body or Indian body. No. It took so many years to come to this life. Therefore zAstra says, labdhvA sudurlAbhaM idaM bahu-sambhavAnte: "You have got this human form of life after many, many millions of years' waiting." So do not misuse it. That is Vedic civilization, not to misuse the human form of life. Nature's law is very, very strict. This life, it is given, a chance. Nature gives a chance. Now you get this human form of life, advanced consciousness. Now you make further improvement. That is wanted. From here we can make further improvement.

 

What is that further improvement? We can go to the better planets. There are many better planets. You can go there, heavenly planets. There you can live for ten thousands of years. Ten thousands of years, and that is also not our year. The higher planetary system, their one day--our six months. In that way you can live there for ten thousands of years. And the standard of living condition is thousand times better. Therefore it is called heavenly. So if you like, you can go there. UrdhvaM gacchanti sattva-sthaH [bg. 14.18]. YAnti deva-vrataH devAn. Everything is explained. Or if you can go, if you like you can go to the PitRloka. If you want to remain here as human being, you can also remain here, but you have to work for it to keep your position, status. Just like if you become rich man, high standard of life, you have to maintain it. Not that it will continue automatically. No, that is not possible, sir. This material world is not like that: you get one position and it will continue. No. A little discrepancy, immediately deteriorate your position. So you have to maintain it.

 

So if you want to maintain yourself within this Bhurloka... There are above this BhUrloka, Bhuvarloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Maharloka. There are so many planetary system. And down also, Tala, Atala, Vitala, PAtAla, TalAtala, like that. If you want to go down, you can go down. If you want to go up, you can go. UrdhvaM gacchanti sattva... Everything is there; you can do that. Ordinary, anyone can understand that in the human society if you want to become high court judge, you can become. And if you want to become a criminal in the prisonhouse, you can become. Everything is open. Not that government says that you become a criminal and he prefers somebody, "You become a high court..." No. Everything is in your hand. If you like, you can become so. Similarly, if you like, you can go back to home, back to Godhead. That is perfection of life. And if you don't like, then remain here.

 

Therefore KRSNa says, aprApya mAM nivartante mRtyu-saMsAra-vartmani [bg. 9.3]. KRSNa has come to you to give you nice instruction how you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Back to home, back to Godhead. That is KRSNa's mission. ParitrANAya sAdhUnAM vinAzAya ca duSkRtam [bg. 4.8]. He comes Himself, KRSNa, and He comes as Caitanya MahAprabhu, as devotee of KRSNa. Caitanya MahAprabhu is KRSNa, but because people misunderstood that KRSNa is asking sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM zaraNaM vraja... [bg. 18.66]. These rascals thought that "It is too much. Why I shall surrender to KRSNa? I am also as good as KRSNa. Why shall I surrender?" That is our mentality. If somebody says, good man, that "You surrender. I shall give you good instruction,Oh, why shall I surrender to you?" That is material life. But our, this KRSNa consciousness movement begins when you are ready to surrender. That is beginning. Tad viddhi praNipAtena [bg. 4.34]. PraNipAt means surrender. PrakRSTa-rUpeNa nipAta. "Yes, I surrender to you."

 

That is the beginning. BahUnAM janmanAm ante jJAnavAn mAM prapadyate [bg. 7.19]. To learn the surrender, it will take many, many births. BahUnAM janmanAm ante. But those who are intelligent, they will surrender immediately. "KRSNa says, ‘Surrender,' and why not? KRSNa is the Supreme Lord. Let me surrender." Then his life is successful immediately. Within a second his life is successful. But we are not prepared to surrender. That is our material disease. So if we do not surrender to KRSNa and take His instruction and make our life, that is our choice. But if you like, you can make your life successful within a moment simply by surrendering to KRSNa.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Three weeks later on May 29 '76 in Honolulu:

Devotee (2): Why doesn't he come to his senses there and then that "What have I done? Why don't I become God conscious?"

PrabhupAda: That is mAyA. Just like they surfer. What is that? They are in hell. But they have no sense that "What you are enjoying? It is hell." They are thinking they are enjoying. Is that enjoyment? It is actually hell. But he's thinking he's enjoying. That is called mAyA. He's accepting something what is not. That is mAyA. Hog eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying. This is called mAyA. There are different grades of suffering, and still they are thinking they are enjoying.

Devotee (3): To really enjoy life you have to suffer a little bit...

PrabhupAda: He doesn't know what is enjoyment. That is the...

Devotee (2): So simply suffering is not a qualification for becoming God conscious then?

PrabhupAda: Ha?

Devotee (2): Simply to suffer is not qualification for becoming God conscious?

PrabhupAda: Why suffering? Where is suffering? What you are suffering? We are God conscious. We are suffering?

Devotee (2): No. No. Ah...

Hari-zauri: He means for approaching God consciousness.

Devotee (2): It is a prerequisite.

PrabhupAda: I do not under...

Devotee (2): So we see that, in other words, when someone goes to hell...

PrabhupAda: But he does not take it as suffering. Take it as enjoyment.

Hari-zauri: Once you understand it's, ah...

PrabhupAda: Unfortunate that they're taking suffering as enjoyment. This is called mAyA. mAyA vase yaccho vese kacho haba... Surfer, he is struggling against the waves, and they're thinking it is enjoyment. Chance of being drowned, being attacked by some sea animals. It is always risky and suffering. And still they're thinking enjoyment. But they're coming from far distant place to enjoy this.

Hari-zauri: They get their enjoyment from taking a risk.

PrabhupAda: Yes. What is not suffering, they're taking risk as enjoyment.

Devotee (2): Material life is great suffering. Totally insensitive that they take such suffering to be enjoyment.

PrabhupAda: This is their punishment. They are being punished, but if you think that "I am punished," they will die. You must take it "I'm enjoying." This is mAyA's energy. They are being punished, but punishment they are taking as enjoyment. Illusion. The conditioned soul is illusioned. This is illusion. He is being punished, and he's thinking "I am enjoying." That is a concession. When he's punished, he may not be woke up with the unhappiness. Therefore he's thinking "I'm enjoying." Actually he's being punished.

 

It seems Prabhupada has summed up our Western culture that morning at the ocean, as a month later in a Garden Conversation in L.A. June 8 '76:

PrabhupAda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. AhaGkAra-vimUDhAtmA kartAham iti manyate [bg. 3.27]. The rascal, he is bewildered, vimUDhAtmA, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gItA. "Huh! Bhagavad-gItA, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. SadA tad-bhAva-bhAvitaH [bg. 8.6]. Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water. So this gross body when finished, his mental, intellectual and false ego will carry him to become a fish, and he'll have full freedom how fish is jumping within the water, going against the waves. A small fish can go against the waves. There is a Hindi poetry that a small fish can go against the big waves, whereas a big elephant is washed away. This is practical. Bahiya jAya(?) gajarAja. GajarAja means, gaja means elephant. In big waves, if you put an elephant, he'll be washed away. But a small fish, he'll go against the waves. He's expert. This example is given that the fish, although he's very small, he's off the water. He's under the water. Therefore he's so powerful. He can go against the waves. That means Azraya. If one takes shelter of the supreme powerful, he also becomes powerful. The example is given, the small fish, it has no power, but because he has taken shelter of the water, it can go against big waves, whereas a big elephant, he'll be washed away, because he has not taken shelter. He has not taken shelter of the water. He is, on the land he is very powerful, but in the water he has no power. So according to different circumstances, we become powerful. A person, he was given the opportunity of human being to understand God, his position in relationship with God. So they won't care to take instruction about these features of life. They'll waste their time as a big swimmer in the water, with the result that he's going to be a fish. If nature's law.... You are giving up this body. That's a fact. You are leaving this body. Now what is your position? That will depend on the nature's law. Your body is finished. Now you are completely under nature's law. So whatever nature's law allow you, you have to accept. Your so-called education, so-called prestigious position, everything will be finished. You cannot do anything. PrakRteH kriyamANAni guNaiH karmANi sarvazaH [bg. 3.27].

 

And then in Vrindavan July 17 '77:

PrabhupAda: Simply eating competition. These American... It's called surfer?

TamAla KRSNa: American?

PrabhupAda: What is that sport, surfer?

TamAla KRSNa: Surfing. You mean on the board in the water? Surfing.

PrabhupAda: So they may become fish next life.

TamAla KRSNa: Actually you said that in a lecture in Hawaii in our temple. I remember. That really gave everybody a thought. Food for thought.

PrabhupAda: It is in the Bhagavad-gItA.

 

<font color="#f7f7f7">

 

[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 03-24-2002).]

[leyh]

Originally posted by beemasane:

hi everybody, i just got off the buttons to Bhakta Don and it took me a long time to type and also i am going to get kicked off of the computer soon by my very wonderful sons and wife who think i have gone nuts for hanging out at the "cyberian Yatra" too much. however, i will tell you this much for right now, i was there on the "Sea Sufferer" day. Prabhupada and the devotees were coming along the beach edge of the Alamoana (sp.) beach when He got to the corner of the park He stood and just looked for what seemed like about a full minute, i just remember it was longer than some of his other pauses, He's just watching very intently and then started to talk about the Sea sufferers and about how this was mystical potency. He wasn't talking heavy about them like He had been doing for some time about the scientists. it was a kind of interesting tone, but make He made it clear about the suffering..anyways i am getting serious flack and a few incoming hits here...i'll be back after honoring the Vaisnava family.

Thank you for the nectar,beemasane,All Glories to you,Prabhu!

 

Out of curosity,did you ever talk to Srila Prabhupada? And if so how was it like to converse with Krsna's pure devotee?

 

 

[Yashoda_dd]

Dear Leyh, if you are in Singapore, you have just missed him. Srila B. V. Narayana Maharaja was there few days back. Yesterday Navadvipa Parikrama started and he is leading 15 hundred devotees in Holy Dham.

 

You can write to him via Maharaja's secretary: brajanath@hotmail.com. It is his holy duty to answer all our questions.

 

beemasane, I join gHari - yes, send few drops of nectar about Srila Prabhupada.

 

 

[beemasane]

Dear gHari. bless you for the Prabhupada lecture nectar. just last night i tried to find my hawaii tapes and i couldn't locate them...once again, bless you.

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by gHari:

<CENTER><IMG SRC=http://www-ee.eng.hawaii.edu/~cca99/surfer.gif WIDTH=556 HEIGHT=333>

 

 

<H3> <FONT COLOR=BLUE>EVERYBODY'S GONE SURFIN' - SUFFERIN' U.S.A.</CENTER></FONT></H3>

 

Possibly that very afternoon on May 8th '76 in Honolulu in a SB 6.1.7 lecture, Srila Prabhupada uses the suffering surferers to preach:

Actually, it was the Bhagavatam class that morning; he was commenting on his observations earlier that morining during his walk at Magic Island, near Ala Moana Beach Park.

(BTW, gHari--nice left!)

Although he made a serious point, we should not that Srila Prabhupada was also laughing at his pun; he was poking fun at us, and those of us in the room who had been (and still were) addicted to surfing laughed with some embarrassment. Still the mood was mostly light.

 

Also during that visit, on an ekadashi, the devotees brought Srila Prabhuada a plate of cookies to distribute after guru-puja. He raised his eybrows and asked if it wasn't ekadashi. When the devotees proudly replied that the cookies were made with potato flour, Srila Prabhupada explained that ekadashi means eatinjg only roots and fruits which have fallen from trees. After a moment, he laughed at us and distributed the cookies.

 

Ekadashi is not a challenge to see what we can get away with, but what we can do without for one day.

 

 

[This message has been edited by stonehearted (edited 03-24-2002).]

[gHari]

Moon Beem, I loved that incredibly good renunciation imagery and preaching by Srila Prabhupada. I could feel eons of nonsense desires fly away each time I reread it. I now see the material world as that big forty foot wave behind the surfer, that is, sufferer. There's definitely no percentage in surfing this material manifestation. Thank you for setting it up. I wondered if it really was the lecture from later that day you had described.

 

I just had to get to the bottom of that "sufferer" thing. He made it so very memorable for us both. Haribol. gHari

[gHari]

Left? For sooth, good brother braveheart, thou hast cut the airs above my head.

[beemasane]

hello?

[gHari]

Beemasane Prabhu,

 

We may have another jpon us here who was there that day. "Stonehearted" who I have renamed "Braveheart" is actually Badhru das (please forgive me if I have mispelled thy name).

 

gHari

[beemasane]

jjjjj-Jaya Prabhu. i know of Babru...i don't think he'd remember me tho' i always liked him because he was always nice to me, even tho' i was a young buckeroo beemus! anyways..."BE BOLD FOR THE GURU! here is, the scenario..." it was real blissful ...everybody dancing around Prabhupada...then nobody else came forward for the sweet...everybody had recieved one...the kirtan was going on so sweet...no one coming forward to take a second helping...all eyes darting around looking at each other, looking at Prabhpada...Prabhupada sitting there waiting...no one coming forward for a second helping...except greedy old me...i looked into his eyes and his eyes said "Yes." oh boy! every thing got nice and wild then...i figured the worst i would get is the cane and the best, a second helping of mercy from the Guru and then...the second time around ...sweets for all!" as everybody got another sweet... Generous Prabhupada handed them all out...one of the nicest(and a little scary there for a bit) Gurupujas i have ever been to." so there, gHari, now you know my greedy little secret...i'm greedy for the mercy of the Guru! please don't TELL anyone...oh, and the Vaisnavas...mmmm-hmmm, that's right, just say nice things nicely about 'em.

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by gHari:

Left? For sooth, good brother braveheart, thou hast cut the airs above my head.

Yes--it looks like a right as you see it from the beach, but we turn left as we take off. Those of us who ride with our right foot forward (called goofy foot) generally prefer lefts because we're facing the wave; the rider in your very cool picture is not a goofy foot.

 

Now, what's this forum called--Spiritual Discussions? See what happens to the tenor of any conversation I enter?

 

 

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by gHari:

Beemasane Prabhu,

 

We may have another jpon us here who was there that day. "Stonehearted" who I have renamed "Braveheart" is actually Badhru das (please forgive me if I have mispelled thy name).

Yes, it's Babhru. beemasane, I may remember you, but I may need some help--your name and maybe some other clues.

 

My wife and I actually lived on the Big Island of Hawaii (where we live once again) in 1976 and went to Honolulu to see Srila Prabhupada. I have a nice story (what happened to the kanthi mala?) that I'd be delighted to share.

 

Some godbrothers who were also visiting from the Big Island got permission to sleep in the temple's front yard the first night they were there. But they didn't sleep. Instead they spent the night chanting japa and watching Srila Prabhupada's window. He was up all night working, if I remeber correctly, on Srimad-Bhagavatam. Occasionally he would stop to chant some bhajans, accompanying himself on harmonium, but most of the night he was dictating. When the visiting devotees went in for mangal-arati, Srila Prabhupada was still working.

 

When I read Hari-Sauri's diary for that period, I remember that he noted that each day the counter on Prabhupada's dictating machine had several times the amount of dictation they were used to seeing.

 

Babhru

 

 

[This message has been edited by stonehearted (edited 03-25-2002).]

[beemasane]

dear leyh, yes i did speak to Srila Prabhupada. it was one of two of the most important things that have happened to me in my life. i am even talking about my other experiences because i feel i am obligated to do so. there are so many other advanced devotees who have so much more to say and i stress that i am NOT doing it to impress anybody. i was so young, that a lot of times i was just content to be near my spiritual master and took a great deal of pride in the fact that he was so busy i just never want to bother him with any thing, questions or otherwise. i will in the course of my Audarya sanga bring up these tidbits of my limited experiences with Srila Prabhupada. what happened between Prabhupada and myself when i was with him i never said to anybody for almost 15 years for fear that people would be critical of me or that i would use this very, very, very special exchange for prathista. i now know that my instincts were correct...it has recently come to my attention that these special exchanges etc. should be guarded very carefully lest they "dissappear" like camphor(Hari bol Yasoda dd!). although i have revealed the contents of my aformentioned exchange with Srila Prabhupada to some of my most intimate godbrother and godsister friends, i am not willing to subject it to the scrutiny of this forum...yet. it is only in the last few years i am even beginning to understand the significance of this meeting and more about who Prabhupada is and this has only come about thru very curious means. as we slide back in from a peeling right(wing) double overhead wave of bhava and get pitched for maximum air... is it Kowabungah we exult? nay au contraire! it is Jaya Jaya Sri Radhe, Jaya, Jaya Sri Radhe! all glories to all of the Vaisnavas!

[beemasane]

hello Babhru. dang! busted!(possibly) is there anyway i can stall you for just a bit with regards to the "auld lang syne" stuff about who i am? we got to cut a deal here somehow tho'...as i'm dying to hear this kanti mala story...what an intro huh? i'm just a little skittish on my particulars, as this is the first time i have been in any forum where i don't know who everybody is who's looking in. i remember you being nice to me tho'! Tell ya' what, your kanti mala story for a snippet of a story of my own, a very short exchange between Srila Prabhupada and me...in Hyderabad. hmmmmm? i remain for now, your anonymous well wisher...beemasaneX. (p.s. i won't hold it against you if you think this is just to wierd and don't even respond, i'm harmless tho', ask gHari.)

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by beemasane:

hello Babhru. dang! busted!(possibly) is there anyway i can stall you for just a bit with regards to the "auld lang syne" stuff about who i am? we got to cut a deal here somehow tho'...as i'm dying to hear this kanti mala story...what an intro huh? i'm just a little skittish on my particulars, as this is the first time i have been in any forum where i don't know who everybody is who's looking in. i remember you being nice to me tho'! Tell ya' what, your kanti mala story for a snippet of a story of my own, a very short exchange between Srila Prabhupada and me...in Hyderabad. hmmmmm? i remain for now, your anonymous well wisher...beemasaneX. (p.s. i won't hold it against you if you think this is just to wierd and don't even respond, i'm harmless tho', ask gHari.)

beemasane, it's up to you when and how you let me know who you are. I'm not entirely comfortable with the anonymity of these forums, and I used this silly name because it seemed part of the forum's culture. I've made no bones about my identity, though, and I admire Citta Hari, Audarya Lila, and the others who use their own names.

 

If you want to write privately, outside the forum, please feel free. My email address is williamr@hawaii.edu

 

Babhru

 

 

[paul108]

I'm confused and a little upset by this concept of only initiated devotees or those following the 4 regs being allowed to wear Tulasi or chant on Tulasi beads. That would seem to say that Tulasi does not have mercy for those who want to go back to Krishna, but who are still bewildered by maya most of the time. Anyone who is initiated and is following the 4 regs, assuming they continue to chant Hare Krishna, are already in the fast lane going back to Godhead. It's those of us who are live in maya who need Tulasi's help the most. I think I would be very discouraged about chanting japa if I had to give up my Tulasi beads.

 

Since I haven't heard of these restrictions before, I might as well ask if it's ok for me to continue to grow Tulasi, offer her leaves and flowers to Krishna, and taste the remnants.

 

[gHari]

Ooops, wrong thread.

 

[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 03-31-2002).]

[paul108]

Originally posted by Yashoda_dd:

... She was wearing two sets of neck beads, wearing tilaka on her neck too, big kavacha... still I could not recognize her.

 

Maybe it was because of cigarette in her mouth. ...

Just because her guru left spiritual path, and because she wanted time-off (she married and I saw her small daughter with her), for some very short period of time, we fall from spiritual path.

 

Her faith in institution is stronger then her faith in herself or in the truth.

 

I realized that all the signes from outside can not help her, all tilak and mala, all kavachas of this world will not help her, if she does not approach a realized sadhu.

 

When we see a person who has awakened some love for Krishna, but is not yet 100% perfect, do we see the devotee or the non-devotee in them? Perhaps more importantly, do they feel inspired or discouraged by our interaction? On page 39 of the current BTG, Jayadvaita Swami quotes a comment by Srila Prabhupada on BG 9.30, "Even if you were to see Brahmananda walking down the street smoking a cigarette, still you would have to consider him saintly." It suspect it would also be ok for him to be wearing his Tulasi mala.

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by paul108:

When we see a person who has awakened some love for Krishna, but is not yet 100% perfect, do we see the devotee or the non-devotee in them? Perhaps more importantly, do they feel inspired or discouraged by our interaction? On page 39 of the current BTG, Jayadvaita Swami quotes a comment by Srila Prabhupada on BG 9.30, "Even if you were to see Brahmananda walking down the street smoking a cigarette, still you would have to consider him saintly." It suspect it would also be ok for him to be wearing his Tulasi mala.

Here it is: (posted on Hare Krishna.org in the article entitled 'Just by reading my books they are initiated')

 

Madhya lila chapter 15 text 111

 

(excerpt) "Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura comments that serving Vaisnavas is most important for householders. Whether a Vaisnava is properly initiated or not is not a subject for consideration. One may be initiated and yet contaminated by the Mayavada philosophy, but a person who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly will not be so contaminated. A properly initiated Vaisnava may be imperfect, but one who chants the holy name of the Lord offenselessly is all perfect. Although he may apparently be a neophyte, he still has to be considered a pure unalloyed Vaisnava."

 

As it is Easter, there is a parable taught by Jesus that is instructive in this matter. Most here probably have heard it before: 2 men were in the temple praying. One man was

giving thanks to the Lord that he wasn't as fallen as the other man in the back pew (who we can imagine may have been unkept and perhaps ragged in appearance, smelling of liquor even) while the 2nd person was feeling truly fallen and praying to the Lord to uplift him. In Jesus' telling of the story, the Lord reached out more to the one who was fallen yet sincere in his prayers for help, while the self-righteous man, content with his own piety, did not recieve the same Grace or audience of the Lord. Srila Prabhupad told a similar story of the prostitute and the brahman who lived side by side. The prostitute, despite her external activities, truly felt herself fallen was always meditating within on the activities of the pure hearted (in her mind) brahman while the brahman, while performing his external rituals, was self-righteous and was always thinking contemptuously of the prostitute. Prabhupad said that at the end of her life she had become purified by meditating favorably on the Vaisnava devotees while the brahman, in spite of his external show of devotion, went 'straight to hell' for thinking so offensively of a devotee.

 

Krishna is a Person and the best friend of the devotees, so even is there is some temporairy falldown (in eternal time)Krishna never forgets any sincere service and sees the good that person has done. We should do the same and have a little compassion for devotees who are entangled in the grips of the illusory energy.

 

 

[Rati]

I would not think that there is actually any aparadha in the case of wearing Tulasi beads without first getting diksa. I was just stating what the tradition dictates on the subject. How could the wearing of tilaka and kanthi mala by the uninitiated possible be censurable, if it is done out of true devotion? It is just customary for those to be given by the guru at the time of diksa, along with gayatri mantras. Harinama initiation was something new that Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada introduced for apparently what he saw were time and circumstances that caused such a need. Prior to that, it was simply one initiation that would involve tilaka, kanthi mala and gayatri mantras.

[gHari]

I had the opportunity to attend this years Prabhupada Festival at Los Angeles. One very interesting incident was related by my godbrother, Viakuntha Prabhu. He has always been a very quite devotee not very much involved in the management and not a very "big" devotee in ISKCON. After thirty-five years in ISKCON this was the first time he had ever spoken in front of the devotees. He was relating an incident that occurred while he was staying at Vrndavana in the Radha-Damodar temple in 1970 when Srila Prabhupada was speaking on the "Nectar of Devotion."

 

He was listening to the classes by Prabhupada and had the opportunity to ask Srila Prabhupada a question. He asked, "Srila Prabhupada, we are distributing so many thousands and thousands of books but so few of the people who get the books actually come to the temples and out of those very few actually join. Is it that we are doing all this book distribution for the few devotees who actually join the temple and get the opportunity to be initiated?" Srila Prabhupada replied, "Just by reading my books they are initiated."

 

[As told to Madhudvisa dasa]

 

From http://guru.krishna.org/Articles/2001/08/007.html

 

 

At last found from http://www.pratyatosa.com/PrabhupadaSaid.htm