Is astrology a science?

[karthik_v]

Most scientists would reply in the negative.

Especially if they are from India, where we have been systematically trained over decades to discount anything Indian. But, opinion espoused by scientists shouldn't discourage us from pursuing facts. Had

Einstein postulated that time-space continuum is a dimension in the 19th century, the chances are he might have been ridiculed. The most common objections to astrology are:

 

One, astrology implies that planetary movements have impact on individual lives. Modern research shows that planets cannot influence individuals.

 

Two, astrology claims to predict the future events. Again there is no empirical way it can be done. From the perspective of modern science, these objections are valid. Yet, this throws open a few more questions:

 

Does modern science describe reality in its entirety on the basis of empiricism and reductionism? The answer is a clear no, as every quantum mechanical postulate has to be buffered with correction factors to justify them. And most theories are based on very

esoteric assumptions which haven't been proven. A case in point would be black-holes, worm-holes and white-holes. And we understand very little about what constitutes inter-stellar space or how this universe evolved (if at all it evolved). So, to discount astrology on the basis of current advancements and understanding in modern science would not be valid.

 

Also, most of us have experienced that even a mediocre astroger can make very detailed and fairly accurate prediction of future events. And with good astrologers, the level of accuracy increases. This begs a question. How can a stranger predict events to come in someone's life? Even if he can predict one

event to a fair detail and accuracy, there has to be a method behind it. How much the practitioner has mastered the method is specific to the individual.

 

So, this gives rise to 2 possibilities, both

hypothetical:

 

One, there is a science behind astrology, but it is of a higher level of abstraction. But the calculations themselves are made with reference to planets which are at best reference co-ordinates.

 

Two, the science of astrology has consciousness as its central theme. And vedic science recognizes that every entity, including planets, have consciousness. This

view is shared by Dutch philosophers like Spinoza too. And some Physicists like Einstein and Wigner share that as well. So, the planetary effect on an individual's life is indeed an interplay of the consciousness of the individual and the planet.

 

Consciousness is yet to be recognized as part of modern science. Nobel laureate Eugene Wigner feels that sans consciousness our efforts at building a Grand Unified Theory will come to a naught.

 

At this juncture, let us step aside and look at astrology from a quantum-mechanical perspective. From the QM point of view, the concept of linear time is meaningless. Hence, our normal understanding of past,

present and future are rendered meaningless in QM. There are just 3 things - Events, Observer and the Interaction between them.

 

As for events, they don't occur; they exist. The observer perceives them when he is located at the right co-ordinates from where he can interact with those events. So, for the purpose of understanding, let us depict time as an axis. If we assume that the

observer is located at (0,0) co-ordinate, everything to the left of (0,0) co-ordinate will be the past; everything at (0,0) co-ordinate will be the present; everything to the right of (0,0) co-ordinate will be the future. The observer can perceive and interact with the events of the present. He remembers events of the past with which he has interacted. But, he doesn't know what events lie in the future, i.e., to his

right. For some reason unknown to us, he can move only from left to right at a defined velocity. So, he perceives future events whenever he reaches the co-ordinates at which they exist.

 

Now, let us hypothesize that astrolgy is a science that has a method to shift the co-ordinates at will either to the right or left. That means an astrologer trained in that method can perceive the events that

exist in the past or future. But, he cannot interact with that. Perhaps this could be understood with an analogy. Let us say it is pitch dark and you are looking at your car which is parked 100 metres from you. Obviously, you can't read the number plate on the car. But, you have a torch light and project a beam at the car, then you can read the number plate, though you cannot touch it. So, when an astrologer shifts the

co-ordinates to perceive a future or a past event, it is like flashing a beam of light at a distant object to perceive it.

 

That brings up another interesting question. How do we account for time travel? Is it the same as astrology? Well, time travel is documented in vedic scriptures. Many modern researchers have also documented cases.

Well, if we were to continue the analogy, then time travel is in part distinct from astrology. An observer may use astrolgy to perceive a future event, i.e., he flashes a beam of light at it. But if he were to

interact with that event, he has to undertake

time-travel. That he he has to travel in some form to the co-ordinate where the evnt is located. Since we know that QM limits us from doing so with our gross body, this again brings up the relevance of

Consciousness and subtle body employed to do this.

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

Yes it is a science.Near death experiences affirm this truth about Astrology.

 

www.near-death.com

 

Originally posted by karthik_v:

Most scientists would reply in the negative.

Especially if they are from India, where we have been systematically trained over decades to discount anything Indian. But, opinion espoused by scientists shouldn't discourage us from pursuing facts. Had

Einstein postulated that time-space continuum is a dimension in the 19th century, the chances are he might have been ridiculed. The most common objections to astrology are:

 

One, astrology implies that planetary movements have impact on individual lives. Modern research shows that planets cannot influence individuals.

 

Two, astrology claims to predict the future events. Again there is no empirical way it can be done. From the perspective of modern science, these objections are valid. Yet, this throws open a few more questions:

 

Does modern science describe reality in its entirety on the basis of empiricism and reductionism? The answer is a clear no, as every quantum mechanical postulate has to be buffered with correction factors to justify them. And most theories are based on very

esoteric assumptions which haven't been proven. A case in point would be black-holes, worm-holes and white-holes. And we understand very little about what constitutes inter-stellar space or how this universe evolved (if at all it evolved). So, to discount astrology on the basis of current advancements and understanding in modern science would not be valid.

 

Also, most of us have experienced that even a mediocre astroger can make very detailed and fairly accurate prediction of future events. And with good astrologers, the level of accuracy increases. This begs a question. How can a stranger predict events to come in someone's life? Even if he can predict one

event to a fair detail and accuracy, there has to be a method behind it. How much the practitioner has mastered the method is specific to the individual.

 

So, this gives rise to 2 possibilities, both

hypothetical:

 

One, there is a science behind astrology, but it is of a higher level of abstraction. But the calculations themselves are made with reference to planets which are at best reference co-ordinates.

 

Two, the science of astrology has consciousness as its central theme. And vedic science recognizes that every entity, including planets, have consciousness. This

view is shared by Dutch philosophers like Spinoza too. And some Physicists like Einstein and Wigner share that as well. So, the planetary effect on an individual's life is indeed an interplay of the consciousness of the individual and the planet.

 

Consciousness is yet to be recognized as part of modern science. Nobel laureate Eugene Wigner feels that sans consciousness our efforts at building a Grand Unified Theory will come to a naught.

 

At this juncture, let us step aside and look at astrology from a quantum-mechanical perspective. From the QM point of view, the concept of linear time is meaningless. Hence, our normal understanding of past,

present and future are rendered meaningless in QM. There are just 3 things - Events, Observer and the Interaction between them.

 

As for events, they don't occur; they exist. The observer perceives them when he is located at the right co-ordinates from where he can interact with those events. So, for the purpose of understanding, let us depict time as an axis. If we assume that the

observer is located at (0,0) co-ordinate, everything to the left of (0,0) co-ordinate will be the past; everything at (0,0) co-ordinate will be the present; everything to the right of (0,0) co-ordinate will be the future. The observer can perceive and interact with the events of the present. He remembers events of the past with which he has interacted. But, he doesn't know what events lie in the future, i.e., to his

right. For some reason unknown to us, he can move only from left to right at a defined velocity. So, he perceives future events whenever he reaches the co-ordinates at which they exist.

 

Now, let us hypothesize that astrolgy is a science that has a method to shift the co-ordinates at will either to the right or left. That means an astrologer trained in that method can perceive the events that

exist in the past or future. But, he cannot interact with that. Perhaps this could be understood with an analogy. Let us say it is pitch dark and you are looking at your car which is parked 100 metres from you. Obviously, you can't read the number plate on the car. But, you have a torch light and project a beam at the car, then you can read the number plate, though you cannot touch it. So, when an astrologer shifts the

co-ordinates to perceive a future or a past event, it is like flashing a beam of light at a distant object to perceive it.

 

That brings up another interesting question. How do we account for time travel? Is it the same as astrology? Well, time travel is documented in vedic scriptures. Many modern researchers have also documented cases.

Well, if we were to continue the analogy, then time travel is in part distinct from astrology. An observer may use astrolgy to perceive a future event, i.e., he flashes a beam of light at it. But if he were to

interact with that event, he has to undertake

time-travel. That he he has to travel in some form to the co-ordinate where the evnt is located. Since we know that QM limits us from doing so with our gross body, this again brings up the relevance of

Consciousness and subtle body employed to do this.

 

 

 

[Avinash]

Astrology is not a science. It may become a science in future, but currently it is not.

 

Please note: I am not saying that astrology is wrong. May be it is correct, but it is as yet not a science.

[dasa]

I have wondered about astrology. It seems to be based on the time and place of a person's birth. But what else is involved in reading a person's chart. Two twins born will have the same time and place for birth. Or even in a large city like New York London, or New Dehli, there must be more than one person being born within a 15 minute time period. So how would an astrologer give a reading of such charts? The charts would have to be the same. I think there is a common notion that a chart can predict what will happen to a person in the future even the time of death. Am I wrong? If I am not, has astrology ever been tested by comparing the lives of such people who must have identical charts?

[karunanidhi]

Astrology is definitely a science. Of course, it depends on your definition what is a science but the dictionary gives several meanings.

 

If you read Shyamasundara dasa's webpage http://www.shyamasundaradasa.com/ then you will find that Vedic Astrology is not only jataka or birth horoscope. There are other disciplines like muhurta (auspicious times), prasna (questions), nimitta (omens), ganita (mathematics) and gola (astronomy). All is very subtly and also not very systematically studied lately, thus many things will be very unclear and controversial.

 

Regarding to dasa's question: even a few minutes difference in birth time can give very different results. And geographical locations also is important.

 

I don't know much about Vedic astrology myself but it seems that as other Vedic sciences its primary purpose is to awaken devotion to the Personality of Godhead. Materialistic and attached people are always anxious about their future. If they approach an astrologer who gives them correct predictions they will develop faith in Vedic disciplines and consequently learn that it all is predetermined by the movements of the planets. In other words, their karma gives them good and bad results. And that the only remedy is the devotion to Krishna.

 

I personally don't think we should mix ideas about quantum mechanics in trying to explain subtly subjects like Astrology. This will only lead to unprovable speculations and ridicule from real scientists. And empirically I don't see a way how planets, even if they have a conciousness, could be determining our fate. But I believe that there is a higher reality and planets are only gross expressions that our senses can perceive.

 

karunanidhi

[Gauracandra]

There can certainly be scientific ways to measure astrology. I’m of the opinion that 99.9% of all astrologers are fake, but that there can still be some truth to it. A few months back I read an article that an insurance company decided to look at the Zodiac signs of their insureds. They had their birth dates, and so compiled statistics on the likelihood of various signs getting in accidents. It was done on a humorous note, but they did find statistically significant differences in the accident propensity for various signs (Geminis were the worst as I recall). Now people pulled out at random, with random signs, should experience similar loss results… that is unless there were some other factor that wasn’t being considered… such as maybe signs correlate with people’s personality. Maybe Geminis have dual personality, and behave more erratically on the road…. I don’t know.

[Seshanaga]

If the world shakes on June 24th 2002 around 8 PM GMT (Greenwich Meridian Time, not Daylight Savings), here's hoping it ain't your fault.

 

 

 

[Tarun]

Astrology - astronomy, ecology - economy, what's the dif?

I've heard of agronomy, but not agrology, though it may exist.

Apology? Yes. Aponomy? To beg forgiveness in name only? Maybe.

[Sharma-SN]

Originally posted by karunanidhi:

 

 

And empirically I don't see a way how planets, even if they have a conciousness, could be determining our fate. But I believe that there is a higher reality and planets are only gross expressions that our senses can perceive.

 

karunanidhi

Dear Karunanidhi,

There is more truth in things than our senses can percieve. If one sees the number of dish and other antennas they just look dead metal structures, without any power or intelligence. But only the telecommunication engineer perceives their role and understands their importance to proper communication. Similarly the number of satellites that are hovering over this planet (many of them passive)look seemingly lifeless, but you know that without them we would not be communicating. Even if it is agreed that they are secondary to the actual communication equipments they are the last-mile realities that can not be ignored. Their position, shape etc., determines the ability of the real systems to reach the required target.

While the higher reality is the ultimate cause the actual links are only achieved by the planets and they have a crucial role to play.

 

------------------

sharmasn

[xxvvii]

Today's astronomical theories are so infantile, such as Big Bang, that they have to be revised ceaselessly.

[abhi_the_great]

I heard about a treatise by Bhrigu Muni called Bhrigu Samhita. It has the names of all the people who were/are/to be born on the earth and the preditctions of their future and future births. It also tells us abt the past births. I don't know if it tells us how far away liberation is.

 

I heard there are 3 people in India who have a copy of this Samhita.

 

There is an astrologer near my home town, who is born in a family which by tradition predicts based on the Samhita. I went to him last time I was in India, but it was a day when the samhita was kept for a special worship and he told me to come again! He did give some predictions based on my horoscope and told abt the past, too. It was pretty much accurate.

 

Next time want to find out more abt the Bhrigu Samhita, if I get some time. When will I meet Krishna??? How many more million births???

 

Hare Krishna

Abhi

[Avinash]

It has the names of all the people who were/are/to be born on the earth and the preditctions of their future and future births. It also tells us abt the past births. I don't know if it tells us how far away liberation is.

 

How bulky is the book?

[Shashi]

Originally posted by Avinash:

Astrology is not a science. It may become a science in future, but currently it is not.

 

Please note: I am not saying that astrology is wrong. May be it is correct, but it is as yet not a science.

I am agreed with AvinashJi.It is not science.

 

Astrology is ART. Even when one day it is becoming science, without the ART it will be nil. Like the science of medicine is zero without ART of healing.

 

(ART thou noticing my English is improved? I am practising much with my husband.)

 

 

[Avinash]

(ART thou noticing my English is improved? I am practising much with my husband.)

 

How is your husband's English? What did you mean by the word 'ART' here? I think it is typing mistake. Perhaps you wanted to write 'Are'.

 

I am agreed with AvinashJi

 

It should be: -

 

I agree with AvinashJi

 

[Shashi]

Originally posted by Avinash:

(ART thou noticing my English is improved? I am practising much with my husband.)

 

How is your husband's English? What did you mean by the word 'ART' here? I think it is typing mistake. Perhaps you wanted to write 'Are'.

 

I am agreed with AvinashJi

 

It should be: -

 

I agree with AvinashJi

Are you something virgo?

Like virgo sun or virgo moon or virgo rising?

Perhaps you are a virgin?

 

 

[Rati]

Originally posted by Avinash:

Astrology is not a science. It may become a science in future, but currently it is not.

 

Please note: I am not saying that astrology is wrong. May be it is correct, but it is as yet not a science.

You are correct about that as far as the modern definition of a science, which includes verification of experimental results by empirical methods. Does it need to be an actual science to be a useful tool? - hardly

 

If you look at the track record of the Hindu system you will be impressed, but if you look at the Western system with its bogus tropical zodiac and totally wrong positions of planets, you will only be disappointed.

 

Here is something anyone can do at home - get a chart of gold and silver futures prices from the two big bull markets from the 1970s and 1980s. Get out your sidereal ephemeris (you must correct with the ayanamsha for those dates, if you only have a Western tropical ephemeris handy). Now see how the prices took off right after Saturn entered a sign owned by Mercury and how the top of the market was on the very day that Saturn went retrograde.

 

After you have done that, now stand there tell me that there is no validity to astrology.

 

[Guest guest]

Success in astrology depends on our sAdhanA. We should control our mind and worship the Lord chanting his names. If we can predict, then we will know it works and also how it works. One our mind can concentrate peacefully, note peacefully, then one can take up Hora Sastra. This way we can start predicting some of the results ourselves.

[Shashi]

Originally posted by ram:

Success in astrology depends on our sAdhanA. We should control our mind and worship the Lord chanting his names. If we can predict, then we will know it works and also how it works. One our mind can concentrate peacefully, note peacefully, then one can take up Hora Sastra. This way we can start predicting some of the results ourselves.

You are one of twins?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Shashi:

You are one of twins?

 

 

Based on the time of birth, the jAtakA of thw twins will be the same. But from the jAtakA, one can see that there is a sibling of the same age. This is same as finding out if there is a younger/ elder brother/sister. Once that is done, the predictions of the twin can be made. I vaguely remember that the order of birth is the inverse of seniority in the case of twins, triplets etc.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by ram:

I vaguely remember that the order of birth is the inverse of seniority in the case of twins, triplets etc.

I am afraid that this is incorrect as per modern science. A foetus in the womb keeps shifting position all the time. So, it is impossible to say which of the twins was conceived first.

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by karthik_v:

I am afraid that this is incorrect as per modern science. A foetus in the womb keeps shifting position all the time. So, it is impossible to say which of the twins was conceived first.

The order of conception is immaterial. For astrological calculations, the order of birth is assumed. If it yields correct results, then it has to be accepted.