Prove there is soul

[Guest guest]

It is possible to accept the existence of the soul via the scriptures. But while preaching one may want to use sheer reasoning to prove and if some one is interested throw in your points.

[leyh]

Originally posted by ram:

It is possible to accept the existence of the soul via the scriptures. But while preaching one may want to use sheer reasoning to prove and if some one is interested throw in your points.

One can say that we unconsciously know that there is something within the material body which can be independent of the body.When someone dies,we say:"He has passed away." Although the material body,which has now become a corpse is not gone.So what is it that has passed away?

 

The soul is the difference between a living person and a corpse.When the soul is present within the material body,it is alive,but when the soul departs from the material body,it becomes inert and ready for decomposition.

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

Dear Ram,

It is very simple.Conciousness is the symptom of the soul.We never say "I am the brain" or "I finger"...this very "I" is the soul.

 

www.near-death.com has real life stories of near death experiences.I have a body but I am not this body.I am a spirit soul,part and parcel of the universal conciousness.You will see at that site when people die most of them are completely taken by surprise.Most of their life they were busy pursuing material happiness and now all that is useless!Everyone sees that he/she is 100% different from the body.It is like a dress we use for sometime and then throw it off.Hope this helps.

 

God bless.

PS:

www.krishna.org has many articles.You will find things nicely described there.Please read all of them at your convenience.Thank you.

 

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 03-17-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 03-17-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 03-17-2002).]

[gHari]

I think the Gita verse goes something like: For those who have conquered the mind, the Supersoul is already reached. The soul is he who sees the Supersoul.

 

This is how you can prove it to yourself. Proving it to others? Tell them to stop being so lazy, and start executing God's instructions in the Gita. Then they will know.

 

That "I" who is not infatuated with the material objects and senses and mind will be left standing alone with the Supersoul as the material world falls away. This happens gradually through the processes recommended by Lord Krsna in His conversation with Arjuna; and then suddenly as the heart changes, humility is finally enkindled by knowledge, perspective and honesty, and our dependence is shifted from the vain mind to Sri Krsna. Then the Supersoul is reached, and one takes pleasure in the soul.

 

This is a very great thing. But it is not a cheap thing. It will cost everything you own. All material attachments must leave. After you have given up everything though, your reward will be greater beyond anything you can imagine. In this state of atmarama, the only thing that is attractive is Sri Krsna. You are now on the fast track to Godhead. And nothing can dissuade you.

 

Hari Bol.

[Tarun]

BrahmaNas work with soul.

Vaizyas work with soil.

Cobblers work with sole.

Candalas work in Seoul.

Sam & Dave were 'Soul Men'.

Bach, Handel, Mozart, Beethoven composed 'Soul Musik'.

Guthrie, Houston, Ledbelly, Seeger sang 'Soul Musik'.

Harrison, Lennon, Robinson, Wonder recorded 'Soul Musik'.

ThAkurs Lochan, Narottam, Bhaktivinod revealed 'Soul Musik'.

[Gauracandra]

I don’t think it is possible to prove the existence of the soul, since the soul is spiritual and all measuring devices would be material. Still, I think it is interesting to note that virtually (maybe every?) culture in the world believes in the soul or an afterlife. They may not agree to what it is, but they all have this common foundation. So I think there is some common human experience that intuitively tells people there is a soul, something beyond the body.

[Avinash]

I think that if someone believes in the existence of soul, let him just say that it is his belief. One should not try to prove its existence.

[beemasane]

the song titled "rubber soul" probably comes closest to Bhagavadgita's stringent guidelines if not indeed adding another wonderful upbeat buoyant feature of the soul.

[Tarun]

If proof means visibility, than invisibles may only be proven by inference.

Of 8 material energies (bhinna prakRta aSTadhA), only 3 r visible: tejo vari mRdam.

Prove air/gas exists.

Prove sky/ether exists.

Prove mind/desire exists.

Prove intelligence/discrimination exists.

Prove ahankar = false ego exists.

If it's false, how can it exist?

* * * * * * * *

Then prove real ego = spirit soul exists.

The subtler, the harder to prove with our fleshy eyeballs.

These fleshy limited eyeballs r the actual culprits.

 

[abhi_the_great]

NDE accounts are interesting proofs. There are also accounts of people who have remembered their previous life. This is another proof.

 

The fact that one is alive even when one is asleep is a proof. When I sleep, I completely forget my body. It is as good as I am dead. But when I wake up I'm still in that stinking body. This is proof that I can be something beyond just the body. It is possible to have out of body experiences.

 

Nowadays there are lots of talks regarding astral travels, or travels outside the limits of the body or spreading ones consciousness beyond the limits of the body. This all are proofs of the soul, to different extents.

 

Hare Krishna

Abhilash

[Avinash]

Being asleep is biologically not the same as being dead. There are many differences between a dead body and the body of a sleeping person, temperature being one of these.

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by Avinash:

Being asleep is biologically not the same as being dead. There are many differences between a dead body and the body of a sleeping person, temperature being one of these.

The point I want to convey is that, although one is not conscious of his body while in deep sleep still he remains alive. This shows that his source of life is not exactly the body. From the point of view of the soul, he is not aware of the body. One completely forgets he is the body.

 

Externally there are many differences between a living and dead body, I agree.

 

Abhi

[xvi000]

According to Tantra doctrines, a soul departs from his body after death, but it still attaches to the fundamental element -- ether to be a being of ethereal light. Scientists concluded with arbitrary that there is no medium for electricity, magnetism, & force. People believe in the medium say that it exists in another world. But it is said in Tantra to be an unmanifested element. Consciousness is the approach to realize it.

[Avinash]

Scientists concluded with arbitrary that there is no medium for electricity, magnetism, & force.

 

Perhaps you are saying that electromagnetic forces can act in vacuum. Fine, but what we mean by "vacuum" is not really "nothing". According to Quantum Physics (Dirac's theory in particular), what we call as vacuum contains Quantum fluctuations. So some medium is still there.

 

[This message has been edited by Avinash (edited 03-19-2002).]

[abhi_the_great]

Sometimes you know you are not the body, just like that. Not logically, not spiritually, but just you get a bolt from the blue that you are not the body, but rather looking out from the body thru a little keyhole called the eyes.

 

Then you look at your hands and get a wierd feeling that these hands belongs to the body, its actually not me. I am inside this body but these fleshy hands are something different, its not exactly me.

 

I sometimes feel that I am standing a little bit above the ground although my foot is firmly rooted on the ground. Hope I am not day-dreaming. Neither did I wear a pair of those Concave lenses...

 

abhi

 

 

[Avinash]

I sometimes feel that I am standing a little bit above the ground although my foot is firmly rooted on the ground.

 

Who is this "I" here? Is it soul? Is yes, then how is it feeling anything? Does it have mind to feel? If yes, then is that mind different from the mind which is a part of your body?

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by Avinash:

I sometimes feel that I am standing a little bit above the ground although my foot is firmly rooted on the ground.

 

Who is this "I" here? Is it soul? Is yes, then how is it feeling anything? Does it have mind to feel? If yes, then is that mind different from the mind which is a part of your body?

Avinash,

Don't mistakenly feel that i am liberated, yet!!haha. I might get trapped any moment if the pretty girl sitting next to me just smiles.

 

I don't know whether this is a perception of the soul or an illusion of the mind. But the feeling is I am something more than just the body. It cd as well be a mental perception/illussion.

 

This statement cannot conclusively prove the presence of the soul. I added it to share my experience.

 

Regarding the question, can soul have a mind, I feel the answer shd be in the affirmative. If there can be a transcendental body, why not transcendental mind? The pure devotees also think, feel and will. And this is the symptom of mind. There can be a transcendental mind or a purified mind.

 

Cheers

Abhi

[Avinash]

I might get trapped any moment if the pretty girl sitting next to me just smiles.

 

If I remember correctly, you mentioned in one of your posts that you were married.

 

[beemasane]

the proof is in the "pudding". any body here ever seen someone die right in front of you and see what was left over?...QED.

[Tarun]

Both BBT Antima dAs & his psychic mother could see spirit.

But they couldn't show it to someone else.

That requires another level.

[Bhaktavasya]

 

MSN Search reveals: there are 113,367 songs with the word soul in them.

[Bhaktavasya]

 

Bhagavad Gita 2.29

 

"Some look on the soul as amazing (a wonder) some describe it as amazing, yet even after hearing about it none can fathom it at all."

 

 

[Audarya lila]

Just because logic reason and argument cannot be used to prove the existence of the soul, it does not follow that no one knows of it's existence.

 

I may have experiences which are very real and subjective which I cannot prove to anyone. That does not negate those experiences or relegate them to belief rather than actual experience.

 

The proof of the existence of the soul comes to any sincere seeker through divine revelation. Gauracandra has rightly said that the soul is spiritual and that no measuring device which is material can reveal it to us. So what is the qualification to actually see the soul? The perciever must have spiritual eyes.

 

How to develop spiritual eyes? Chant Hare Krsna will sincerity and concentration. Cry out like a child crying for its mother. Krsna has ears and can hear his babies crying. He will reveal himself. This is the best process for realizing the existence of the soul.

 

Yoga practices and general meditation can also help to give one experience of him/herself beyond the everyday experiences of the mind and senses.

 

So in the material sense the soul cannot be proven to exist, but if one is willing to experiment with his/her own consciousness - it is possible to gain some awareness of the soul.

 

your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by Avinash:

I might get trapped any moment if the pretty girl sitting next to me just smiles.

 

If I remember correctly, you mentioned in one of your posts that you were married.

Dear Avinash,

Maya does not mind if you are married or not!! Just enjoy!! Who knows what'll happen tomorrow?

 

luv

Abhi

[Avinash]

I may have experiences which are very real and subjective which I cannot prove to anyone. That does not negate those experiences or relegate them to belief rather than actual experience.

 

Agreed and therefore we should not try to prove the existence of soul to others unless we really know something that can be presented as proof of the exisstence of soul in a discussion. Suppose I tell somebody that I can prove that soul exists. Then I present my argument. But he shows to me that my argument does not prove that soul exists. Of course, still it is possible that soul exists but I can not prove it. But then I should not have even claimed that I had the proof.

 

I am all for science but I do not believe that just because science can not explain something it does not exist. When Wegner first proposed Plate Tectonics, then even well known geophysicists of that time did not believe him. No physical explanation of such a big scale movement was offered. But the theory proved to be correct years latter. So, it is possible that we do not know how something can happen but still it happens (of course it is also possible that it really does not happen).

 

But there is one thing that I really hate. I have found that many times people misinterpret the theories of science to support their beliefs. It is better to say that they have that belief but they can not prove to others that the belief is correct.