Tantric vs. Vedic

[Gauracandra]

What are the principle differences between these two traditions? And what do they have in common?

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

What are the principle differences between these two traditions? And what do they have in common?

Tantra is Vedic (derived from the teachings of the Vedas); don't you mean 'what is the difference between Bhakti Yoga and the Tantric arts?

 

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Tantra is Vedic ( part of the Vedas); don't you mean 'what is the difference between Bhakti Yoga and the Tantric arts?

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

That’s what I’m not sure of. Is Tantra derived from the Vedic tradition? I’m under the impression that it was a separate tradition coexisting with the Vedic tradition. In fact, I’ve read some practitioners of Tantra claim it predates the Vedas, and that the Vedas are derived from it. Of course both sides might claim theirs is first, and that the other came from it (so that’s a dead end). But be that as it may, what is the ultimate aim of Tantra, what are the main tenets of its philosophy etc….?

[Jagat]

Vedic means connected to the Vedic scriptures. The Tantric literature, which is connected to the Pancharatra, was not considered "Vedic". The original Vedic path consists of karma-kanda and jnana-kanda. The Pancharatra/Tantra includes the yoga practices, the science of mantras and yantras, and deity worship, etc.

 

Tantra includes anything that smacks of magic and connected rituals. Most people when they hear "Tantra" think "sex." There is an almost natural progression from theories of Kundalini Yoga, by which sexual energy is transformed into psychic power, to the practice of sexual yoga, which holds that you have to activate the sexual energy in order to transform it. Most orthodox yogis are celibate, however.

 

Since deity worship is a fundamental part of bhakti-yoga, it is clear that Pancharatra/Tantra has entered into bhakti. The real duality in Bhakti, according to Saraswati Thakur, is the distinction between the Bhagavata and Pancharatra paths. The former is, according to him, the true path taught by Mahaprabhu and based on inner feeling, whereas the latter emphasized ritual and external activities. Thus the raganuga/vidhi duality is an extension or sign of the primordial Bhagavata/Pancharatra division.

[Gauracandra]

Thanks for that explanation.

 

By the way, not related to the posting, but I really like your translations you post every so often. A few days back I was looking at one and discovered a great word - "horripilation". So not only is it spiritual, but its a great vocabulary builder Still hoping you finish that Dana Keli Kaumudi after your Jagannatha Puri book. Haribol.

 

[Caught a mistake]

I feel silly, but I just realized that I came across the word "horripilation" in the translation of Sri Vrindavana Mahimamrita Shataka by Prabodhananda Saraswati as translated by Kushakrata Dasa. I still really like your translations, and I still think "horripilation" is a great, great word. I've been trying to find, though unsuccessful, ways to incorporate it into everyday conversation

 

[This message has been edited by Gauracandra (edited 03-24-2002).]

[Bhaktavasya]

 

Hari Bol, Gaura Hari. After researching, I discovered that (as pointed out by Jagat) originally tantra was not part of the Vedic religion, but was later assimilated into it (through the Upanishads. I found a very interesting web site, www.the origins of tantra which posits the theory that tantra came from the more mystical-yogic Dravidian tradition. Many branches developed into Mayayana Buddhist tantrism,Shaivite tantrism, Shakta tantrism and even Vaisnava (Vaisvana) tantrism.

This site and others like it emphasize mediation rather than sexual practise as taught by 'modern new age' gurus (Rajnessh is mentioned), and 'visualization of the deities' and raising the energies through the main cakra areas, transforming the sexual or base cakra energy. As Jagat also mentioned, most traditional practitioners are celibate.

 

[Bhaktavasya]

 

the www.origins of tantra didn't come up on the last post, but you can find it easily by typing in that address.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

the www.origins of tantra didn't come up on the last post, but you can find it easily by typing in that address.

Can you please post the complete url? Thanks.

 

[Bhaktavasya]

 

Sorry that I don't know how to do this very well. If you go to MSN Search then type in 'Origin and History of Tantra' the web site should come up. I tried to find the same site on Google and couldn't find it through that search engine. Also, the address at the bottom of the page 'http://www.kheper.auz.com/topics/Tantra/Tantra.htm. didn't bring up the site when I tried typing it in through my home page search engine.

[Guest guest]

Here's a little known fact.

The ancient science of alchemy,the search for the philosopher's stone,the elixer of immortality,was originally brought to the middle east by tantric yogi's from India.

There are record's of there being many Indian merchant's and mystic's,in Jerusalam,Alexandria,Greece,and all over the Roman empire.Alexandria,in Egypt was the intellectual center of the ancient mediteranean(?).The Alchemist tradition dates back to the fourth century a.d.,from Byzantium(asia minor).They believed their tradition dated back to Hermes Trismegustes,who they believed to be the Egyptian god Thoth,the messenger of the god's.The reality was that the many mystic's from the tantric tradition taught at Alexandria,And later ,due to the influence of time and distance,the origin of alchemy became mythologized.But the practice of Alchemy,(to the uninitiated,the ability to change base metal to gold,was a cover for the unchristian practice of tantric sexual yoga)changed only because the Alchemist's themselves were ignorant of the original Yogic process,they believed in the search for the philosopher's stone,the drink that would bring immortality.more next time.

[Guest guest]

The tantric practice included the ingestion of Bhang,Ganja tea,This was taken along with the recitations of mantra's.This sexual yoga was supposed to bring mystic power's,and the inhabitation of the performers by a particular diety or diety's.Previous to the vedanta,and Bhakti reemergence,The tantric path was very popular in india,and it was exported wherever ther was an indian community of merchants.Probably,Because of it's preeminent position,Alexandria,in egypt,was where many indian people lived,and also taught yoga.This is where the Alchemist's and the Egyptian mystery schools trace back their origins.The misinterpretation,due to time,turned the ingestion of bhang(probably thought to be soma),followed by the sexual yoga,mantra's,and philosophy of the kundalini awakining and giving the adept the mystic awareness of eternity,and or mystic powers,youthfulness,etc., into the practice of alchemy.The alchemist's were searching for the elixer of immortality,and eventually modern chemistry,medicine,and metallurgy can be traced back to the alchemist's like Paracelsus,whose misunderstanding of tantric yoga stoked their desire to experiment.