Siddha Pranali

[raga]

Now that we are drifting way out of the thread topic, I might as well post the following quotes, which I recently discovered by chance.

 

Jesus said: "These words shall not be understood until the male becomes female and the female becomes male."

 

(The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene)

 

"Not until the male becomes female and the female becomes male shall ye enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

 

(The Gospel of Thomas)

 

I don't know what he was thinking when he said it, but it sure sounds interesting in the light of the dual upasana practiced by many Gaudiyas, where one identifies both with a female kisori form in Braja and with a male kisora form in Navadvipa in his daily mental service.

 

Anyone has anything more to contribute siddha-pranali-wise?

[jijaji]

raga:

At any rate, I have no need or interest in participating in discussions where people misunderstand my postings because they think they know the real, actual and perhaps the only meaning of "ego", "spirituality" etc. and then inconsiderately blast me into the basket for things I never intended. It hurts me.

 

jijaji:

Raga, I am sorry if I hurt you in any way..that is not my intention here. I feel misunderstood by you as well but take it in stride, you should try the same.

I will be the first to tell you that sometimes my words can burn ...

 

[jijaji]

Yea I'll add something...

 

I do not think for a micro-second that Jesus was implying or suggesting anything at all regarding siddha-pranali in those statements you presented above.

A far stretch of the imagination...and nothing else!

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-02-2002).]

[theist]

Raga,

 

In today's world with the demands of this modern lifestyle upon us, how practical is this type of practice for the most of us?Isn't this really for the few?

 

I find it almost impossible to nicely hear my japa through the static of my own internal dialouge, what to speak of becoming immersed in these detailed visualizations.This seems pratical for only those in the renounced order and among them those that decide not to spend time preaching.

 

What do you think?

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-02-2002).]

[jijaji]

Just Sit Silently with Closed Eyes

Meditation for Busy People:

 

Whenever you have time,just sit silently with closed eyes.

 

It will help. It will help you to be more at ease with yourself.

 

People have forgotten how to close their eyes because they have forgotten how to go inwards.

 

Our whole interest is outside.

 

It is really a wonder how people manage to sleep with closed eyes! Sooner or later they will start sleeping with open eyes... and they will have their glasses on!

 

Our eyes have become very fixed on the outside... almost paralyzed. They cannot move inwards, and that is the most essential thing in life to learn, because we go on missing our real treasure.

 

In the east that real treasure is called, dharma. We don't call the church religion, we don't call ritual religion; we call the inner experience of one's being religion.

 

This meditation for busy people is extremely simple and can be done anywhere, anytime, and by anyone.

It is simply this: Whenever you have time, just sit silently with closed eyes.

 

'sitting sliently doing nothing the springtime comes and the grass grows by itself'

 

 

 

[raga]

Originally posted by theist:

Raga,

 

In today's world with the demands of this modern lifestyle upon us, how practical is this type of practice for the most of us?Isn't this really for the few?

 

I find it almost impossible to nicely hear my japa through the static of my own internal dialouge, what to speak of becoming immersed in these detailed visualizatins.

Theist, the practice is meant for the ones who are eager for it. It is not for others.

 

One hears about the pastimes of Sri Krishna and His associates, and a greed awakens in his heart, "Oh, I want to attain a mood and feelings similar to him/her! (a particular associate)" Thus eagerness awakes.

 

Then one will do anything for obtaining his coveted goal. It is not easy in the beginning, but due to the burning desire for the goal, he goes on to practice.

 

To summarize, this practice is for those who want to do it. It is not to be advocated as a program of global salvation.

 

[Shashi]

Originally posted by jijaji:

I will be the first to tell you that sometimes my words can burn ...

 

From the frying PHAT into the fire.

 

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by Jagat:

That's quite an original philosophy, Shiva, all based on a misinterpretation of a misinterpretation. Do you have any knowledge of Sanskrit or Bengali, by any chance?

 

When Srila Prabhupada said that Krishna becomes Radharani in order to enjoy, he doesn't mean that he becomes Radharani, but that he becomes Sri Krishna Chaitanya, Krishna imbued with the color and mood of Radha.

 

Jiva Goswami has conclusively shown in his books that Radha and Krishna together are the Supreme Truth, neither Radha nor Krishna separately.

 

Hladini Shakti is explained as the energy through which he enjoys and through which he gives pleasure to the devotees; he remains (technically) the enjoyer. The devotees' enjoyment comes through complete identification as instruments of Krishna's pleasure, or instruments of Radha's service in giving Krishna pleasure.

 

Perhaps you are familiar with Ujjvala-nilamani? If not, read the fourteenth chapter. You can find a complete Sanskrit version at www.granthamandira.org.

 

Of course I have no objection to your glorifying Srimati Radharani, but I suggest that you try understanding what the Gaudiya siddhanta is first. It's like being a musician. Before you can improvise, you really should learn the notes.

 

Your servant,

 

Jagadananda Das.

 

 

Applause for Jagat! I agree, it not as if Radharani is just laying there on her friend's shoulder saying "Please me; it's actually my enjoyment that's of prime importance around here. Forget about Krishna as the one who gives please to the cows and senses, that's my gig now!"

 

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Applause for Jagat! I agree, it's not as if Radharani is just laying there on her friend's shoulder saying "Please me; it's actually my enjoyment that's of prime importance around here. Forget about Krishna as the one who gives pleasure to the cows and senses, that's my gig now!"

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by raga:

Ram, you know this assertion of yours is not true. Where is it advised that knowledge is only to be given to the class of men who do not know? Then, for the most part, we should be quiet all the time, since in this world there are a lot of people who know the same things as we do, if not more.

 

If you would believe it yourself, you would not have made your initial post in this forum, since there are many long-time practitioners of bhakti here who certainly are aware of the things you attempted to present.

 

Please tell us about the niyamas of bhakti according to Hari-bhakti-vilasa. Upadesamrta we all know. Honestly, I have not read Hari-bhakti-vilasa, the essential yama-niyama-book for the Gaudiyas, cover to cover, so please do feel obliged to advice us on the essential niyamas according to Hari-bhakti-vilasa.

 

It is interesting to note that the word "niyama" is not once mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. At any rate, "yama", or positive assertions, come before niyama. In the Gita (2.59), the philosophy of attaining freedom from the lower urges and conquering the mind is presented:

 

<center>viSayA vinivartante

nirAhArasya dehinaH

rasa-varjaM raso ?py asya

paraM dRSTvA nivartate</center>

"The embodied soul may practice restraint from the objects of sensual enjoyment by negative restrictions, but the taste for them will remain. Upon experiencing a higher taste, he ceases to hanker for them."

 

It is obvious from the Gita that bhakti is not a path of progress through niyamas. Instead, it is a path of progress through positive experiences of the divine.

 

Upon gaining access to a higher source of *rasa*, the taste for inferior rasa ceases. And this is what raganuga-bhakti and siddha-pranali is all about.

 

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-02-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-02-2002).]

niyamAgrhaha.

 

[Bhaktavasya]

 

The edit thing doesn't seem to be working; the last post is supposed to refer to Krishna as the one who gives PLEASURE to the cows and senses, and not the one who gives PLEASE. (then again...a Krishnian slip?)

[theist]

Bhaktavasya,

 

You are hitting the quote icon instead of the edit one.Edit has the pencil icon.

 

This brings to mind yet another Beatle song.You know the one.

 

I'm starting to think my next birth might be in Liverpool.What a drab thought.

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-03-2002).]

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by theist:

Bhaktavasya,

 

You are hitting the quote icon instead of the edit one.Edit has the pencil icon.

 

Thanks, and I can't even blame it on the full moon.

 

 

This brings to mind yet another Beatle song.You know the one.

 

Not 'please please me' (oh ya, like I please you)?

 

 

I'm starting to think my next birth might be in Liverpool.What a drab thought.

 

 

Don't we have a role in deciding?

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-03-2002).]

 

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

niyamAgrhaha.

From the commentary of Radha Raman Gosvami on the fourth verse of Upadesamrta:

<blockquote>

"(1) niyama + Agraha = over-zealous- ness in following rules, and (2) niyama + agraha = failure to accept rules. When the first meaning is applied, it refers to enthusiasm for those rules which yield an inferior result, such as promotion to the heavenly planets, leaving aside the endeavour for the superior attainment of the service of the Lord. When the second meaning is applied, it refers to indifference towards those rules which nourish bhakti."</blockquote>

From the commentary of Bhaktivinoda:

<blockquote>"The word niyamagraha has two meanings. When one has obtained a progressively higher qualification but remains over-zealous to adhere to the rules pertaining to a lower qualification, it is known as niyama-agraha. Failure to observe the rules which nourish bhakti or, in other words, an absence of firm faith is known as niyama-agraha." </blockquote>

I find the commentary of Bhaktivinoda very interesting. "When one has obtained a progressively higher qualification but remains over-zealous to adhere to the rules pertaining to a lower qualification, it is known as niyama-agraha."

 

If one has obtained the precious gift of eagerness for obtaining a mood similar to that of a certain parikara of Sri Radha and Krishna, it is understood in observance of the instructions of Rupa Gosvami and Visvanatha Cakravarti that he has obtained the qualification for entering into Raganuga-bhakti. Hence, it will be niyamagraha if one nevertheless avoids the practice of raganuga. Bhaktir vinasyati, according to the original verse of Rupa Gosvami. Bhaktivinoda warns us in a series of essays on the second verse of Upadesamrta, published later as "Bhaktyaloka", in the following words:

<blockquote>"In the process of sadhana-bhakti there are four stages, sraddha, nistha, ruci, and asakti. After passing these four stages one comes to the level of bhava, which is the doorstep of prema. According to the degree of faith, each level has different rules. As one leaves behind one level and progresses to the next, he should honor the rules of the latter and leave aside those of the former. Those who do not give up the rules of the previous level are bound by those rules like chains that do not allow him to proceed to the next level.

...

The conclusion is that the practitioner attains a higher level as a result of following the rules prescribed according to his qualification. He should not maintain attachment for the rules of his previous level. Keeping this instruction always in mind, he should always engage in chanting and remembering Lord Krsna and thus continue advancing to higher levels."</blockquote>

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-03-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-03-2002).]

[Rati]

Jijaji: You forgot to mention your space alien siddha pranali and the meditation on oneself as a giant cockroach-like creature.

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-03-2002).]

[Rati]

For any interested parties: Jijaji can book you passage on a UFO to get extraterrestrial diksha.

 

Just go out to a deserted location at night and look to the skies. If you are a qualified candidate with the proper greed, you will see strange lights. That will be your sign.

[Rati]

The Rock 'n' Roll Siddha Pranali

 

Guru Parampara:

Rockin Bach (brother of J.S. Bach)

|

Wolfman Amadeus Mozart (cousin of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart) - this guy was actually the first to bite off the heads of bats on stage

|

Be-boppin Beethoven (half-brother of Ludwig Von)

|

Scott Joplin

|

Jelly Roll Morton

|

Dizzy Gillespie

|

Charlie (The Bird) Parker

|

Elvis Presley (The King)

|

Ozzie Osbourne

|

Jijaji (from this universe - UFO Jijaji is from a parallel universe)

|

P. Diddy

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-03-2002).]

[jijaji]

Rati,

 

"You're suffering from hardening of the orthodoxies."

 

[Rati]

Originally posted by jijaji:

Rati,

 

"You're suffering from hardening of the orthodoxies."

 

Oh, so what - now you're denying that P. Diddy and Sponge Bob are your disciples in parallel universes?

[Guest guest]

Dearest Jagat,please forgive my impertinance,I, in my ignorance of your exalted position,did not not realize, your ability to give the true import to Srila Prabhupadas words,when he did not deem it necessary to clutter up his understanding,with your superior "realization".

Interestingly enough,regardless of your mindless declaration,"When Krsna desires to enjoy, he becomes Radha",still means what it says.

Srila Prabhupada did not say, that when Krsna desires to enjoy,he becomes Sri Caitanya,in order to taste the love of Radha,

If he meant that,then why did he not say that.

You must be very advanced in your relationship with Radha and Krsna,to delete the words of the Mahabhagavata,and correct his choice of words with your better ones.

Whats the matter? Am I going to fast for you?

This is the problem,as others were talking about,FALSE EGO.

You have a conception of Radha and Krsna,even though, clearly,The Guru,has a different conception,you will change his conception,telling us he did not mean what he said,in order to have the egotistical driven desire of your conception,remain superior,yes, you ARE a legend in your own mind.

For those of us, who accept the words of the Guru,without adding our own "correction",transcendental realization is assured.

"Radha and Krsna are one and the same ,never make the mistake of thinking otherwise",is that o.k. with you,any thing to add?

The hladini sakti,is the enjoying energy.

Krsna ENJOYS, as Radha,that is a simple understanding.No need for your assumption, that it refers to Sri Caitanya.

Sri Caitanya has no need to taste the mood of Sri Radha,as Sri Caitanya.

"Radha and Krsna are one and the same",is this to difficult a concept for you to understand?

"Sri Krsna Caitanya Radha Krsna nahe anya"(C.C),this tranlates as-Radha,Krsna, and Sri Caitanya,are one.

There is no difference between them,that is the meaning of being one,or the same.

Would you like to give us the "true ,correct", meaning, hidden there?

Radha is the internal potency.

Internal,humm,what do you suppose that means? Is "internal" in your vocabulary?

My limited understanding,and,oh yeah,the dictionary says,that internal means "what is inside",or that, which is NOT, on the outside.

Still with me swamiji?

So we are told,Radha is the internal(THAT WHICH IS INSIDE) energy of Krsna.

Does this mean she actually lives inside his body?

No,that is foolish.

Maybe it means, that what Krsna is, on the outside,or EXTERNAL,Radha IS THAT, WHICH IS ON THE INSIDE, OR INTERNAL.

In simpler terms,Gadahara Pandit on the external,or outside,was a male devotee of Sri Caitanya,but inside,or internally,actually he was Radha.

This is Krsna's position,his internal energy,his inside,his inner being,

that is Radha."Radha and Krsna,are one and the same ,never make the mistake of thinking otherwise." (intro to Caitanya-Caritamrta,by A.C Bhaktivedanta.).

I wait with trepidation,your highly realized "actual purport,and commentary."

Since you have read,some various rasa-lila books,then you must have understood EXACTLY,what they meant.Being as you understand the true import of Radha and Krsna,and Mahaprabhu so well,as to see fit to give us the "true" meaning of Srila Prabhupadas work,when he neglected to do so.

 

 

 

 

[jijaji]

Ratiji,

 

You been smokin Salvia Divinorum over there again?

 

 

 

------------------

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by raga:

From the commentary of Radha Raman Gosvami on the fourth verse of Upadesamrta:

<blockquote>

"(1) niyama + Agraha = over-zealous- ness in following rules, and (2) niyama + agraha = failure to accept rules. When the first meaning is applied, it refers to enthusiasm for those rules which yield an inferior result, such as promotion to the heavenly planets, leaving aside the endeavour for the superior attainment of the service of the Lord. When the second meaning is applied, it refers to indifference towards those rules which nourish bhakti."</blockquote>

From the commentary of Bhaktivinoda:

<blockquote>"The word niyamagraha has two meanings. When one has obtained a progressively higher qualification but remains over-zealous to adhere to the rules pertaining to a lower qualification, it is known as niyama-agraha. Failure to observe the rules which nourish bhakti or, in other words, an absence of firm faith is known as niyama-agraha." </blockquote>

I find the commentary of Bhaktivinoda very interesting. "When one has obtained a progressively higher qualification but remains over-zealous to adhere to the rules pertaining to a lower qualification, it is known as niyama-agraha."

 

If one has obtained the precious gift of eagerness for obtaining a mood similar to that of a certain parikara of Sri Radha and Krishna, it is understood in observance of the instructions of Rupa Gosvami and Visvanatha Cakravarti that he has obtained the qualification for entering into Raganuga-bhakti. Hence, it will be niyamagraha if one nevertheless avoids the practice of raganuga. Bhaktir vinasyati, according to the original verse of Rupa Gosvami. Bhaktivinoda warns us in a series of essays on the second verse of Upadesamrta, published later as "Bhaktyaloka", in the following words:

<blockquote>"In the process of sadhana-bhakti there are four stages, sraddha, nistha, ruci, and asakti. After passing these four stages one comes to the level of bhava, which is the doorstep of prema. According to the degree of faith, each level has different rules. As one leaves behind one level and progresses to the next, he should honor the rules of the latter and leave aside those of the former. Those who do not give up the rules of the previous level are bound by those rules like chains that do not allow him to proceed to the next level.

...

The conclusion is that the practitioner attains a higher level as a result of following the rules prescribed according to his qualification. He should not maintain attachment for the rules of his previous level. Keeping this instruction always in mind, he should always engage in chanting and remembering Lord Krsna and thus continue advancing to higher levels."</blockquote>

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-03-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-03-2002).]

Dear Raga, earlier you said that there are no niyamas in bhakti yoga - only yamas. now you are accepting that there are niyamas. if you actually are progressing by personal realization in bhakti yoga, you would not be ignorant of these basic rules of bhakti in the first place. What is the tangible proof that you have progressed ? I am not asking you to answer me but I humbly fall at your feet and request you to introspect.

[Rati]

Shiva, you are the one with the attitude problem, not Jagat. He has something to teach you, but do you show any gratitude? No, just hostility towards him. Perhaps you should give some thought to your behavior, which may seem appropriate to you but malicious and arrogant to others.

 

[Guest guest]

 

Humor,yes,hostility no.

Jagat has tried to twist the words of the Guru, and then proclaim that the words of the guru,are best understood with his appendix,which completely changes the actual words and the meaning of them,to suit his limited understanding.

I have pointed that out.

What is YOUR problem?,do you think Srila Prabhupadas words, should have your purport added to them, hotshot?

You must read with an unprejudiced mind,otherwise you cannot see the truth,even if its right before your eyes.

 

[jijaji]

Shiva...

 

Get off this Bandwagon of trying to defeat all outside Gaudiya Math & Iskcon, your simply wasting your time.

 

And as far as taking Jagatji to task..

Your simply wasting your time..

 

It could lead to Salvia Divinorum smoking