Krsna's two-handed form vs Cosmic form

[Avinash]

<QUOTE>

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, this form of Mine you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form, which is so dear.

</QUOTE>

 

As you can see, in this translation, drstvAnasi has been translated as 'you are now seeing'. But the word-for-word translation gives 'you have seen'. When we translate the word as 'you are now seeing', then we are talking about the form that Arjuna was seeing then i.e. Krsna's two handed form. But, when we translate the word as 'you have seen', then we are talking about the form that Arjuna had seen previously i.e. either Krsna's four handed form or cosmic form.

 

[gHari]

Is the other translation actually "drstvAnasi" or is it "drstavAn asi"?

 

Of course, before the universal form, Arjuna saw Krsna's original form standing in his chariot.

[gHari]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a sanskrit scholar.

 

It seems Lord Krsna is speaking about THIS form (idam = this), not that form (tad = that)

 

Entry idam

Meaning 1 %{aya4m} , %{iya4m} , %{ida4m} (fr. %{id} Un2. iv , 156 ; g. %{sarvA7di} Pa1n2. 1-1 , 27 Vop. ; a kind of neut. of the pronom. base 3. %{i} with %{am} [cf. Lat. {is} , {ea} , {id} , and {idem}] ; the regular forms are partly derived from the pronom. base %{a} ; see Gr. 224 ; the Veda exhibits various irregular formations e.g. fr. pronom. base %{a} , an inst. %{enA4} , %{ayA4} [used in general adverbially] , and gen. loc. du. %{ayo4s} , and perhaps also %{avo4s} , in RV. vi , 67 , 11 ; vii , 67 , 4 ; x , 132 , 5 [bRD.] ; fr. the base %{ima} , a gen. sing. %{ima4sya} , only RV. ; the RV. has in a few instances the irregular accentuation %{a4smai} , v , 39 , 5 , &c. ; %{a4sya} , iv , 15 , 5 , &c. ; %{A4bhis} , vi , 25 , 2 , &c.: the forms derived fr. %{a} are used enclitically if they take the place of the third personal pronoun , do not stand at the beginning of a verse or period , and have no peculiar stress laid upon them) , this , this here , referring to something near the speaker ; known , present ; (opposed to %{adas} e.g. %{ayaM@lokaH} or %{idaM@vizvam} or %{idaM@sarvam} , this earthly world , this universe ; %{ayam@agniH} , this fire which burns on the earth ; but %{asAv@agniH} , that fire in the sky , i. e. the lightning: so also %{idam} or %{iyam} alone sometimes signifies `" this earth "' ; %{ime@smaH} , here we are.) %{idam} often refers to something immediately following , whereas %{etad} points to what precedes (e.g. %{zrutvai9tad@idam@UcuH} , having heard that they said this). %{idam} occurs connected with %{yad} , %{tad} , %{etad} , %{kim} , and a personal pronoun , partly to point out anything more distinctly and emphatically , partly pleonastically (e.g. %{tad@idaM@vAkyam} , this speech here following [165,3] ; %{so@'yaM@vidUSakaH} , this Vidu1shaka here).

tad = that

Entry tad

 

Meaning (nom. and acc. sg. n. of and base in comp. for 2. %{ta4} from which latter all the cases of this pron. are formed except nom. sg. m. %{sa4s} or %{sa4} & f. %{sA4} ; instr. pl. %{tai4s} AV. &c. ; Ved. %{te4bhis} RV. AV. &c.) m. he f. she n. it , that , this (often correlative of %{ya4} generally standing in the preceding clause e.g. %{yasya@buddhiH@sa@balavAn} , `" of whom there is intellect he is strong "' ; sometimes , for the sake of emphasis , connected with the 1st and 2nd personal pronouns , with other demonstratives and with relatives e.g. %{so@'ham} , `" I that very person , I myself "' [%{tasya} = %{mama} Nal. xv , 10] ; %{tAv@imau} , `" those very two "' ; %{tad@etad@AkhyAnam} , `" that very tale "' AitBr. vii , 18 ; %{yat@tat@kAraNam} , `" that very reason which "' Mn. i , 11 ; %{yA@sA@zrI} , `" that very fortune which "' MBh. vii , 427) RV. &c. ; (%{tad}) n. this world (cf. %{idam}) R. vi , 102 , 25 ; = Brahma see %{tat-tva} ; (%{ta4d}) ind. there , in that place , thither , to that spot (correlative of %{ya4tra} or %{ya4tas}) AV. AitBr. ii , 11 S3Br. i , x , xiv ChUp. ; then , at that time , in that case (correlative of %{yadA4} , %{ya4d} AV. ; of %{ya4tra} S3Br. xiv ; of %{yadi} Nal. Bhag. &c. ; of %{ce7d} S3ak. &c.) RV. iv , 28 , 1 AV. &c. ; thus , in this manner , with regard to that , ix , xiii S3Br. AitBr. ; (%{tad@etau@zlokau@bhavataH} , `" with reference to that there are these two verses "') Pras3nUp. ; on that account , for that reason , therefore , consequently (sometimes correlative of %{yatas} , %{yad} , %{yena} , `" because "' Das3. Pan5cat. Katha1s. &c.) Mn. ix , 41 MBh. &c. ; now (clause-connecting particle) AV. xv S3Br. AitBr. ; so also , equally , and AV. xi , xv

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[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 04-11-2002).]

[Avinash]

Can somebody tell me about different plenary expansions starting from Krsna upto Maha Visnu. I have read about Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna, and Aniruddha. I have read that there are two sets of these four expansions. From whom does the first set come and from whom the second? How does the expansion Baladeva happen? Also, where does the Visnu who resides in Vaikuntha fit into this?

[xxvvii]

sudurdarsham idaM ruupaM dRiSTavaan asi yan mama

devaa apy asya ruupasya nityaM darshanakaangXiNaH

 

Literal trans.:

This vision of mine that you have seen is diff. to see. Even Angels always wish to see this vision.

 

Background

 

Trikaaya -- Brahman (associated with life), ViSNu (ass. with sound), KriSNa (ass. with form)

 

Expl.

 

Arjuna could see battlefield & KriSNa with his own eye, & see Brahman & ViSNu with the divine eye. So the sight & the vision didn't disturb one another. In the vision, he could see Brahman as the background of infinite effulgence & darkness, & ViSNu as the faces of Brahman along with countless expansions.

 

In 11.10 - 11.11 the expansions is mentioned;

In 11.12 - 11.16 Brahman is mentioned;

In 11.17 King of Mercy - Vendor is mentioned;

In 11.18 - 11.23 Brahman is mentioned;

In 11.24 - 11.30 King of Terror - Killer is mentioned;

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by xxvvii (edited 05-05-2002).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Here is something on the expansions of Godhead originating in Vaikuntha, down to the avataras:

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/avatara-incarnations1.htm

 

 

[xxvvii]

The excerpts from nde articles about the forms of Son & occult Father ----

 

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He was dressed in a white, long-sleeved, floor-length robe with a wide gold band around the mid-section. He wore sandals. His dark brown hair was shoulder length; he had a long face, broad chin, dark eyes with black around both eyelids, like eyeliner pencil, but it wasn't. His skin was olive colored and his eyes were as liquid love. He communicated by looking at me. No words had to be spoken, as we could hear each other's thoughts. ---- in "Childhood ndes" (filename - children.doc)

--------

"At the first heaven I met a Being. Or I should she he met me. I recognized him as Jesus Christ, and he led me through the three heavens. When I think about Jesus' physical presence, it almost fades away, because the predominant feature is that he is love through and through. As I recall, he had dark brown wavy hair and an olive complexion. I looked into his eyes. They were piercing but loving and as clear as blue water. You could almost see yourself mirrored in his eyes. When he looked at you, he looked straight through you and into you. You realized immediately that he knew all there was to know about you.

"There now seemed to be a heavenly illumination that caused his hair to be light red and his eyes bluish, almost transparent, and his skin a light golden color. There is no way to fully describe his coloring. It is like another world's color. It's the Shekinah glory, iridescent golden light glowing through him. In his resurrection body, his coloring is uniquely different from anything on earth.

...

"In a matter of seconds I found myself before the Most High. The Most High is the term I use because I recognized the presence of God the Father. In looking at him, I couldn't really see him, but there was an awesome glory, an awesome presence. You could feel it everywhere, and I realized that he was on the throne. When I tried to see what the throne was like, I discovered it was invisible. I knew it was there; I just could not see it. It was so big that it extended all the way to earth; earth is part of that throne. This was an incredible awareness. Stunned by it all, I felt as small as a little ant, so insignificant. Trembling, I found myself prostrate. While I was lying there on my face, he spoke to me. It was unlike the mental speech between Christ and me, because the Father sounded like many waters rushing. I lay there a very long time, with God speaking to my soul. The words he spoke to me can't be recalled, but they were about me and my life. ---- in "To Heaven and Back" (filename - christnde.doc)

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Bkgd. of the 2nd part:

Apollo/Balder is described respectively in Greek & Norse myths as bright & fair youth with a particular characteristic, golden-red hair. In fact, Apollo is light god like balder instead of sun god because of the confusion with older sun god, Helios. Apollo was born in Greece & killed in Norseland & Balder is his name in "Hyperboreas".

- my personal view (apolloonos/baldr may be spelt as skt. apalonas/bardRi)