Business Outings

[Rati]

I do not know that it is necessarily true that one would find universal discrimination against oneself for wearing tilak in the workplace. I would like to think that people in general are not so prejudiced.

 

As far as lacto-vegetarianism is concerned, I would be interested in seeing an accurate statistic of what percentage of Hindus and Vaishnavas follows that regimen strictly. I think we can safely guess that in West Bengal there are a significant number that eat seafood. I remember someone mentioning that Sri Bhaktivinode Thakur ate fish even after he was inititated. Western devotees (unless they are lucky enough to be second generation Vaishnavas) pretty much gave up eating flesh as adults (it actually was quite a big trend for college students back in the sixties and seventies). The Vaishnava saints have all been vegetarian, as they always subsisted on prasada alone, which is inherently pure. Certainly if one wants to be situated in sattva guna, then one will avoid non-veggie foods, except for milk products of course. As far as cultivating bhakti-prema, it is not going to really be a factor. In other words, we cannot conclude that a non-vegetarian is unable to make spiritual advancement.

 

I seems that the Jains are actually stricter than Hindus are following a veggie diet, and they carry the doctrine of ahimsa (non-violence) to further extremes in practice.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I like that idea of the devotee going in with tilak. It likely is easier for indians to do though.

You have a valid point there. An American may it a lot tougher, due to peer pressure, to sport a tilak. Also, an organization like Microsoft is more liberal as it is in hi-tech. A traditional organization like a bank could be more rigid.

 

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Audarya lila:

This is not what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches. He teaches that one should respect all others and expect no respect in return. He does not discriminate and say 'respect devotees, but treat others as dirt'. This type of attitude will be detrimental to the goal of 'always chanting the Holy Name', which is only possible if we are truly humble and see ourselves and others in the proper perspective.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

Hari Bol Audarya Lila Prabhuji,

AGTSP! PAMHO!

 

I admit I went overboard in making that statement. Sorry for that. But there are many who are offensive towards Vaishnavism. There was a colleague who once asked me, sarcastically, why Indians wouldn't eat beef. I countered him asking as to why Americans don't eat their pet dogs. He was offended and went on a defensive saying that dogs are their pets. I answered that likewise in India cows are treated as members of the family and protected. SO, no question of eating them. He never indulged in sarcasm ever after. I could have as well explained him in detail, but this was more effective and less time consuming. If someone is genuine, we should answer sincerely, but how else do we deal with those who are insensitive themselves? True, a more mature individual will see all as equal, but I am not mature. I don't intend to mature in another 50 years. That doesn't mean my method is correct. Just that it works at times.

 

 

[Rati]

Mistreating others, no matter how course their manners might be, is not Vaishnava-like behavior. One can be sarcastic in a conversation without being abusive. Humor is quite a good technique for defusing tense situations. Try this line on them: "Forget beef, insects and worms are much tastier." They are not likely to take you seriously and, if they have a sense of humor, then they might even laugh at the remark. Here's another one: "A cannibal once told me that lawyers taste like chicken, and that the higher the rates they charge, the more tender they are." Most people can relate to satire about attorneys.

 

 

[gHari]

It's nice to share with guys and gals who have had the same torture in the business as I. I have some advice; advice I wish I could have taken long ago. Save your money. Live cheaply. Eventually you can't stand working anymore. Drive used cars. If you need to spend, buy devotional things, because soon enough that is all you will want.

 

Now this is hard advice to follow. We always think the gravy train will go on forever. I've had a lot of lucrative posts from the seventies thru to even last year, but now I don't know if I will ever be able to leave my wonderful simple life to go back to all that heartbreak of making a buck.

[abhi_the_great]

So it happened. We all went for the team dinner. As I said - an Indian Restaurant. (We are so used of calling Restaurant as Hotel in India, so don't get confuse in case I have used it interchangeably).

 

I asked the waiter bravely (after reading all these posts), "do you have anything vegiterean without onion and garlic?". I was hoping he wd say no and I cd eat some fruits as usual. To my surprise, he said yes, mixed vegetables specially for you, without onion and garlic, we shall prepare. "So be it", I replied (thinking this was Krishna's merciful plan to feed his pure devotee).

 

And when he brought it, hold your breath... guess what. It had all nice vegetables.. like paneer, capsicum, tomatoes, potatoes.... AND A LOT OF MUSHROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMS!! My foot. This was anti-climax.

 

Finally I settled down with Roti and Dal(which was free of all this). For me such parties happen once in a maybe 6 months. I just go along with it, and slip out with some excuses ones in a while. Anyway, I make my preferences very clear, and I have seen people accepting it.

[Audarya lila]

Originally posted by karthik_v:

You trust Krishna and treat unprincipled fools as dirt and Krishna gives you the strength.

 

This is not what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches. He teaches that one should respect all others and expect no respect in return. He does not discriminate and say 'respect devotees, but treat others as dirt'. This type of attitude will be detrimental to the goal of 'always chanting the Holy Name', which is only possible if we are truly humble and see ourselves and others in the proper perspective.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

 

[Rati]

A business associate and friend of mine has three dogs. When it gets very hot outside he turns on the air conditioning in the house, not for himself, but to keep his dogs with their long fur from suffering. Of course dog spelled backwards is God, and this is illustrative of the type of devotion a nitya-siddha has for the Lord, although it is but the shadowy reflection of that pure emotion of selfless love.

 

I just thought I would mention him (he's Jewish), because when we go to vegetarian Indian restaurants for business meetings, he does not mind, even though he himself is not a vegetarian.

 

Much of the topic of this thread revolves around one's perspective. If you watch what the Dow Jones index does on any single day, it does not necessarily give an accurate picture of the overall outlook. It could drop two hundred points in a trading session while in the middle of a strong three month rally that takes it to new historic highs. Just because someone does not find the path of bhakti in their present lifetime, does not mean that they will not take to it in their next and reach the goal. Just because they have knowledge of someone else who follows vegetarianism as part of sadhana, that in itself could be the spark that eventually ignites the flame of bhakti. So we should not necessarily judge someone over minor character flaws. They might be totally obnoxious and offensive towards Vaishnavas today, but turn out to be a dedicated follower of Vaishnavism themselves five or ten years from now. They may not even realize that they are commiting vaisnava-aparadha, because in their mind they are just having some fun, and there may be no malicious intent on their part to begin with. Just because Arjuna and Bhimasena wrestled each other for sport does not mean that they were enemies or harbored some enmity towards one another.

 

It is going to be difficult at times to maintain a proper perspective until we are finally free from the influence of maya and situated on the highest level of uttama adhikari (one who sees everyone as servants of the Lord without distinction).

 

Humility is something all on the path of bhakti strive for, however there are boundaries involved (psychologists say that we get into trouble when we do not have strong personal boundaries). I would hope that no Vaishnava would feel compelled to compromise their own principles due to peer pressure, despite what others are doing. If someone drinking alcohol or eating flesh feels some personal guilt when they encounter someone who avoids those things, then maybe that is not such a bad thing. It might simply mean that they are evolving ethically (and maybe even spiritually as well). The resentment they have towards their own shortcomings is then turned outwards towards others in some cases. They might have awe and respect for a person of higher principles and still begrudge them at the same time out of envy.

 

Yes, if it were a perfect world, then we would only need to associate with spiritually advanced people that think like us. Since it is not, then we need to devise strategies that are effective. As I said before, be creative. Turn the tables: Have a backyard barbecue with soy burgers and tell all of the carnivores present that they are actually meat.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-18-2002).]

[gHari]

Well, the dreaded mushrooms. So funny.

 

Maybe it's time to drop this unwanted bomb. I eventually got brave enough to actually write a list of what I could not accept. Then I realized, and probably realized all along that the plates contained meat yesterday; the spoons and forks too. They were washed in water with chunks of flesh in it. The food was cooked in pots and pans that have cooked God doesn't want to know what before; the food was offered to God doesn't want to know whom before. The greasy chef likely tasted it in the kitchen to see if it was done. So in the final analysis, the bottled water is the safest bet, and there just is no such thing as a 'free meal' anymore.

 

If you want a real laugh: at my last dinner with the westerners, I brought my own food and dishes and spoon. I explained the whole thing. Of course, this was not a 'work' dinner, and I'm quite into being myself of late; at last - damn the torpedoes.

 

[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 04-19-2002).]

[Guest guest]

If we are firmly convinced that we dont have to go then it is not necessary to do so. I like the idea of preaching in the office. It needs a lot of courage and conviction. But it is a very good form of defense also. If devotees are like the sun, it will purify the existence of other people also. On the other hand yielding weakens our heart. It allows others'mind to have effect on ours and draws us down. I am personally experimenting whether it is possible to phenomenally successful in business by relying on Krishna and it seems I am making a good progress. By the yogic power that one gets by meditating on the Supreme Lord Krishna, one should be able to achieve everything that is worth achieving - even in the material sphere. It seems just important to keep the mind strong and in control it so that we can do whatever we want to simply by intensifying our desire. By personal experience what I learnt is that when we yield, we develop attachment sooner or later. Then we start craving.

[Rati]

This link as 101 reasons for being a vegetarian, which could come in handy.

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2062/101.HTML

 

I have not yet read through it all, so do not know how good it is.

[Guest guest]

One solution :

 

As long as it is their decision not yours. take the expense as payment for services, which they can use as they like

 

[Gauracandra]

One thing that I think would be relatively simle to create would be a job postings website. Devotees all over the world, as they became aware of opportunities at their companies could post the fax, email, etc... to send one's resume. In addition, the devotee who posted the job opening could give tips on the people likely to do the interviewing, the type of company, what to say, what not to say, some of its history etc....

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

One thing that I think would be relatively simle to create would be a job postings website. Devotees all over the world, as they became aware of opportunities at their companies could post the fax, email, etc... to send one's resume. In addition, the devotee who posted the job opening could give tips on the people likely to do the interviewing, the type of company, what to say, what not to say, some of its history etc....

It is a good idea. We are doing it with my company employees. We have moved to different companies but still stay in touch thro an egroup.

 

But this post belongs to a different thread